N0thingSpecial wrote:Firstly, if you change SV you need to NC to hint that it's a different SV slider, easy concept, everyone is doing it, if BN ever come around and mod this they will tell you the same most likely. I don't feel like that would make a lot of sense with this map in particular, because I would literally have to NC during the middle of a word. Second of all, NC is obviously mostly used to differentiate between different parts of the song/melody, but if I added NC to nearly every single slider it would completely loose that function
While I'm on topic, having constant SV change is not wrong but the way you are spacing and placing your sliders doesn't suggest intuitive gameplay. NC could only help so much, the rest really lies on aesthetic consistency, you are really lacking in patterning, to group together ascending and descending intensity of the vocals, you're not making it easier for the for the players to recognize a pattern in the SV change, cause majority of the entire fukin human race likes to group shit together so it could be easier on their brains, not saying you randomly placed them, I see there was an effort, but it is no where obvious enough for the players to actually feel intuitive to play. I'm very much aware that I could make it more intuitive for the first-time player of the map, but I would have to map it in a way that would fit the music less, or at least MY interpretation of the music. That's why it feels so intuitive to me, and I'm sure it would also feel intuitive to some people (at lest after a couple of tries so they know what is going on), but I am aware that no where near all people will find the map intuitive. To be honest, I don't really care.
Ok you might here say "it fits the music imo I have a love hate relationship with this word" and "it's not for intuitive game play, it's for fun", then I have two things to say:
- well fukin 1/2 note spams throughout the entire song is also fitting to the song that I know enough, that's why there's so many shitty brain dead effortless jump maps in the first place, "it fits imo" of course it fukin fits. The question is what do these sliders bring to the map, it's accurate hell yea I agree but how is this different from having constant SV sliders? try messing around with the sliders with constant 0.8-0.9 SV, it will play exactly the same. I'm honestly not quite sure what you are referring to here... "1/2 spams throughout the entire song" are you talking about this map? Jump maps in general? "What do these sliders bring to the map" what sliders? The ones in the intro, or the sliders in the rest of the song? I'm sorry, I might just be stupid, but I honestly don't know exactly what you are referring to...
- Ok even if you say that it makes a difference, how is that difference recognizable? Where's the consistency in inconsistency?
00:01:243 (2,3,4) - these 3 sound exactly the same and you put 3 different SV in it, there's no background music to support a scaling intensity, the "climax " is not even strong enough to deserves a scaling intensity I'll be happy to explain my reasoning behind these: The first (and longest) slider of the three, comes on the first real beat of the song. It's also the "a big white tick" or however you wanna put it, so since it's such a strong beat, I want to emphasize it a lot. The next slider is much less significant, it's not on a strong beat and it's the second syllable of a word. The last slider is a new word, and I feel like it's generally a bit more significant than the previous beat, so it has a SV somewhere in between the two previous ones. At the same time, this slider kinda leads on towards the next slide, increasing the intensity a tiny bit, thought it's only just noticeable when playing.
00:04:014 (1,2,3) - these a practically lower pitch version of 00:01:243 (2,3,4) - but why the SV change patterning is different? Because of the context. These sliders come after the melody jumps to notes that are significantly deeper than the previous, which is why I start of with a low SV, and just before a jump to significantly higher notes, which is why I increase the intensity.
00:12:443 (1,2,3) - same thing This pretty much follows the same pattern as your previous point, but compared to the first point, these are the first notes after a long break. In the beginning of the first note, you can clearly hear, that the first syllable isn't very clear, and this in my opinion makes it sound weak, which is my reason for using a lower SV. Then I increase the SV to build up to the increase in pitch in the song.
00:13:854 (4) - higher pitch higher SV right? right? oh nvm it's lower SV Only a few of the notes in the intro last for longer than one beat, this is one of the few that don't. I have consistently emphasized these notes with very low SV, to force the player to really linger on those notes.
Like I'm trying hard to find a consistent reasoning behind your SV change, like how articulation, tonality and other stuff, stuff like 00:07:275 (2,3) - how you use constant SV for emphasis in articulation, but articulation wasn't a major role in the vocals so it wasn't enough to justify the randomness of the rest. THIS is what Massive meant by "it looks super clunky and super random" I get that it might look random, but as I said, everything is thought through and is justifiable, and I firmly believe that all this will result in a map that is intuitive to players that either A: knows the song well, or B: has played the map a few times and knows it well.
Like I get you're trying to be creative and original but this is really lack luster and underwhelming, I could go longer onto how you could extend the idea of "basing SV on intensity" and apply it to your 1/2 note spam but you clearly haven't found an effective formula to actually apply it consistently throughout the map yet, thus the feeling of randomness, you're not taking the idea far enough. I'm not trying to be anything. I'm trying to make the most enjoyable map I possibly can, and I think this is close to that. I have reasons to map the way I do, and I see no reason to use techniques that people might consider "basic mapping". Stuff like "aesthetic" and "good patterns" and even "consistency", I have not seen a proper reason why I should apply stuff like this to my maps, and frankly I don't think I ever will
I highly suggest you actually sit down and make a consistent looking map, cause here's an analogy: "to be sure that you're answering perfectly incorrect to a question, you must know the perfect answer for that question", to map something abnormal you must know how to map something normal in the first place. After that you can alter what's fundamental in normal map and alter it consistently in the map that's really how HW get away with bullshit SV change, it's consistent and obvious, both aesthetically and playing wise. But I'm just not trying to map something abnormal. I'm not trying to map something normal either. I just want to map something good. If something makes sense to me, I will apply it, if it doesn't I won't. I never think "what's a weird/interesting/unique way to map this" I simply think "What is the best way to map this". Or "How can I best map this, to it reflects my interpretation of the song.
but one things for sure and yes it's an insult, but BNs/QATs wouldn't even touch your map if your slider art stays this way and I'm 99% sure about it. unless you made it consistently like how monstrata did with alien, but look how that map turned out and you can't pull it off cause you don't even know how to make good looking map in the eyes of the majority Yes I do realize I'm a fukin hypocrite for saying this. Well, I hope BNs/QATs would judge my map on it's own merits, but to be honest, I don't really care about if they will like it or not. Heck, I wouldn't even mind too much if nobody likes my map. And to be honest, I've never understood why people give a fuck about maps being "good looking".
I hope my trust in your stubbornness is good enough to not demotivate you from mapping Not sure exactly what you mean, but my stubbornness will probably always make sure I won't be demotivated from mapping
I probably don't even need to KDS I just want to see red text all over my rant, Nah, I don't mind giving Kudosu to people who actually put a lot of thought and effort into their mods. And even though this mod barely focused on this map in particular, you pointed out as many things as Mazziv did, and fleshed them out more, besides everything else that you wrote.