1. Normal (4.59 stars, 323 notes)

1. So no hitsounds yet? bit weird now to have custom hitsounds enabled but you have no custom hitsounds, would add some in your map (make sure theres a 1 after the file name if your gonna use custom hitsound1) otherwise just use the default setting in the timing section
2. dunno if you already hitsounded it before but deleted it but here some general stuff just incase: for stuff like 00:24:210 (2,4) - etc could use a clap/drumclap to represent the snares for example
3. 00:26:562 (1) -,00:34:979 (5) - etc snare+cymbals so might aswell put a clap/drumclap and a finish(if you gonna use a custom finish cymbal)

1. 00:15:733 (3,4,1) - you could emphasize the downbeats during this section a bitmore imo because here is the tone shift like for example now the spacing between (3,4) is the same as (4,1) why not make (4,1) bigger here because it goes higher in tone and vice versa for sections if it goes lower in tone
2. what do you think a bout soft sample set for the intro, since there really isnt a strong beat to follow yet other then the vocals and to represent the tone a bit more

1. 00:34:510 (2) - NC, bit of lonely combo now and it show a bit that the next note will be more connected when its a (2) so a bit of an indicator that its gonna be a 1/4, like you did with 01:19:051 (3,4) -
2. 00:34:862 (4,5) - since its still an insane diff, would just make it the same distance here or have 00:34:745 (3,4) - increase gradually a bit aswell so its in the middle of (1,2) and (5) since heres also the change in drums
3. 00:42:971 (5) - control j (+control h if you want) for some better flow from 00:42:736 (4) - and into 00:43:440 (1) -
4. 00:45:658 (2,1) - thats really hard to read currently and a bit tricky for a normal diff, could maybe change (1,2) into a 1/4 slider aswell for consistency with 00:34:276 (1) -
5. 00:46:715 (3,1) - 00:48:114 (3,1) - yeah dude no one is gonna know these are 3/4 and not 1/2 with this kind of spacing being the exact same as all your 1/2s either reduce the spacing a bit or shorten the sliders to 1/2 (still a drum beat there so your choice)
6. 00:57:965 (2,3,4,5) - 01:03:575 (2,3,4,5) -, etc these kind off patterns could be less random a bit, like more coherent for example why not make 00:57:965 (2,3) - the same ds as 00:58:431 (4,5) - so you have a bit of structure as a base while keeping the emphasizes on the strong beat with the jump being intact. I got this a lot while playing that the combos seem a bit random placed most of time, like only placed based on the sound aka your ds here for emphasizing but not taking in account the combo pattern and it surroundings like overlaps/visual distance between notes/placement of the next combo with considering the previous combo etc as a whole. But might be your style so, it just felt a bit random while playing to me
7. 01:01:229 (4,5,1) - flows kinda bad with that sudden stop in that linear flow, would create a bit more of angle maybe something like this to rate (1)
   
8. 01:12:487 (4,2) - might aswell stack these since theyre so close, will look a bit nicer
9. 01:14:362 (1,3) - ^
10. 01:17:639 (3,4) - rip combo again insane 1/4 jumps man
11. 01:37:811 (1,2) - seem a bit random now placed in the rythm since there're only 2, since the vocals still continue after. could make 01:38:749 (3,4,5,6) - these sliders aswell
12. 01:41:552 (7) - NC for the switch to 1/3

Wishkey wrote:

Oh hell yeah someone mapping Ghost

General

You sure about your timing? Seems like you basicly get the same with these 2 timing points since now a few feel off

128 BPM offset 765, 4/4 signature
128 BPM offset 4046 3/4 signature
When I timed the map, I thought the map wasn't quantized, so I started timing it as I would with a song that wasn't quantized. Only later did I realize, that it was in fact quantized, but since both ways of timing it gives roughly the same result, I see no reason to change what I have.

Check for: preview point/combo colors/tags like metal/rock/choir/... Fixed all that

Won't become relevant if your gonna do the timing change but 00:20:912 (1) - make sure at the end of the slider that the red and green timing points have the same volume Fixed that as well




Normal

Hitsounding

1. So no hitsounds yet? bit weird now to have custom hitsounds enabled but you have no custom hitsounds, would add some in your map (make sure theres a 1 after the file name if your gonna use custom hitsound1) otherwise just use the default setting in the timing section
2. dunno if you already hitsounded it before but deleted it but here some general stuff just incase: for stuff like 00:24:210 (2,4) - etc could use a clap/drumclap to represent the snares for example
3. 00:26:562 (1) -,00:34:979 (5) - etc snare+cymbals so might aswell put a clap/drumclap and a finish(if you gonna use a custom finish cymbal)

Didn't add custom hitsounds, but did hitsound the entire map

Intro

1. 00:15:733 (3,4,1) - you could emphasize the downbeats during this section a bitmore imo because here is the tone shift like for example now the spacing between (3,4) is the same as (4,1) why not make (4,1) bigger here because it goes higher in tone and vice versa for sections if it goes lower in tone
   Good point. Did that.
   
2. what do you think a bout soft sample set for the intro, since there really isnt a strong beat to follow yet other then the vocals and to represent the tone a bit more

Did that when I hitsounded it

Rest

1. 00:34:510 (2) - NC, bit of lonely combo now and it show a bit that the next note will be more connected when its a (2) so a bit of an indicator that its gonna be a 1/4, like you did with 01:19:051 (3,4) -
   Did it this way to emphazise the snare hit on the beginning of the stream. Added a nc on 00:34:979 (1) - though
   
2. 00:34:862 (4,5) - since its still an insane diff, would just make it the same distance here or have 00:34:745 (3,4) - increase gradually a bit aswell so its in the middle of (1,2) and (5) since heres also the change in drums
   Fixed this I think? Not sure exactly what you meant
   
3. 00:42:971 (5) - control j (+control h if you want) for some better flow from 00:42:736 (4) - and into 00:43:440 (1) -
   [I like the way it flows now better (it kinda works to separate the two combos)
   
4. 00:45:658 (2,1) - thats really hard to read currently and a bit tricky for a normal diff, could maybe change (1,2) into a 1/4 slider aswell for consistency with 00:34:276 (1) -
   First of all, don't pay too much attention to the name "normal" it's just a generic name I choose for my difficulties, if I can't think of anything better. Second of all, this was made this way very deliberately, and it's one of the things that I don't think I'm going to change, no matter what. It's a bit tricky at first, but once you get the hang of it, I think it plays very well
   
5. 00:46:715 (3,1) - 00:48:114 (3,1) - yeah dude no one is gonna know these are 3/4 and not 1/2 with this kind of spacing being the exact same as all your 1/2s either reduce the spacing a bit or shorten the sliders to 1/2 (still a drum beat there so your choice)
   Sure, I doubt anybody is going to combo through that on a sight read, but it follows the music well, and I don't mind sacrificing a bit of playability, if I think it follows the song better
   
6. 00:57:965 (2,3,4,5) - 01:03:575 (2,3,4,5) -, etc these kind off patterns could be less random a bit, like more coherent for example why not make 00:57:965 (2,3) - the same ds as 00:58:431 (4,5) - so you have a bit of structure as a base while keeping the emphasizes on the strong beat with the jump being intact. I got this a lot while playing that the combos seem a bit random placed most of time, like only placed based on the sound aka your ds here for emphasizing but not taking in account the combo pattern and it surroundings like overlaps/visual distance between notes/placement of the next combo with considering the previous combo etc as a whole. But might be your style so, it just felt a bit random while playing to me
   I generally don't pay too much attention to the visuals of my maps. But the example you took out was actually very deliberate. By having 00:58:431 (4,5) - be a shorter ds, 00:58:897 (1,2,3) - becomes comparatively more intense, and it also separates the two patterns as well (like the slider before)
   
7. 01:01:229 (4,5,1) - flows kinda bad with that sudden stop in that linear flow, would create a bit more of angle maybe something like this to rate (1)
   
   Did something like that
   
8. 01:12:487 (4,2) - might aswell stack these since theyre so close, will look a bit nicer Yup
9. 01:14:362 (1,3) - ^ Yup
10. 01:17:639 (3,4) - rip combo again insane 1/4 jumps man Same explanation as before
11. 01:37:811 (1,2) - seem a bit random now placed in the rythm since there're only 2, since the vocals still continue after. could make 01:38:749 (3,4,5,6) - these sliders aswell
    While I want to emphasize the vocals, I don't want to completely move away from following the guitar yet (I also think this transitions a bit better into the next bit
12. 01:41:552 (7) - NC for the switch to 1/3

I feel like the 1/3 are definitely connected to the slider before. Added NC to the slider though

Hope it helped and GL with the map dude! osu needs more Ghost

ShogunMoon wrote:

Hey~

This is your NM

I'm not good for modding Insane but I go tried

General

1. Check the first warning in AiMod. I've tried everything, but I just can't do anything about that... Dunno why...
2. There are too many jumps I wanted to make it a very jumpy map, but I might have gone a bit overkill... Will see if other people point it out as well
3. Increase a little the speed if you want to make one truth insane.
4. If you increase the rhythm it will be better. Not sure what you mean here...

Normal

1. 00:03:550 (6) - weird overlap. Not sure how how to make it less weird. I want it to overlap a little bit, since the slider represents two syllables of the same word
2. 00:07:975 (3) - overlap. Not sure what you mean here...
3. 00:33:573 (6) - This circle is too far. Moved it a little closer
4. 00:52:344 (2) - You can make this: I like the way it plays atm. Will keep it in mind though
   
   ~

   

It's all that I can make lol. I hope that I helped you a little.
Good luck for the map!

Mazziv wrote:

hi! nm from my queue o/

[Normal]

what are you trying to emphasize by consistenly changing sv? its a mess! Every sv change is deliberate, and to emphasize something in the vocals. Feel free to ask for an explanation for any changes you don't think makes sense
00:02:624 (5) - could be better emphasized with a slider until 00:03:319 - Doing that would result in completely ignoring two syllables of the vocals. I could make two sliders, but I like the way it works with a repeat slider
00:05:410 (4) - 1/1 slider please I don't see the logic behind doing that
00:06:343 (5) - single note ^
00:13:854 (4) - extend the slider until 00:14:559 - ^ and I want the rhythm in the intro to be consistent, so I don't want to use a 3/4 slider only once
the whole part where it goes wild has no structure,no patterns v: it looks super random Ever single note (including spacing/slider shapes/slider velocities) is mapped to emphasize something in the song. Feel free to point out, if you feel like parts of my map fail to do so.

i recommend you re-mapping this but with a slight idea in your head. right now it looks super clunky and super random
v: if you remapped it with (patterns,consistant and reasonable spacing and all that stuff) u ask for a re-check if you want!
I'm sorry, but "remap everything" is not really very helpful advice. Also, stuff like " with a slight idea in your head" is frankly just condescending. Feel free to come back and make a proper mod, if you want kudosu.

Pinguino wrote:

This seems hard to mod not even going to try and verify the timing of things, someone should but way above my range.

Normal

The following sliders need more "warning" or something to hit at the speed you intend they feel to fast when playing without "expecting them"
00:03:550
00:05:410
00:08:208
00:15:265
Each of these sliders (as well as all the other sliders) are mapped to emphasize the vocals, and I don't want to change them unless absolutely necessary. Besides, I don't think the changes are too crazy, and if you have the song in mind, it should be quite intuitive

Not sure on the spacing of the jumps feels to much but maybe is just me hating what 4* 120bpm jumps are

00:24:683 I'll still put this hit circle closer to the previous one even compared to the other ones it goes to far I prefer the way it's spaced now, I really want to emphasize the snare, and I think mapping it this way also leads well into 00:25:156 (1,2,3) -
00:28:901 ^ Again, want to emphasize the snare (as well as the cymbal this time). This is also probably the most intense part of the "chorus" so I think it's justified (though you could argue that it's already beginning to calm down at this point)

00:34:276 Yeah I don't like this at all way to hard to read, add it fully to the stream or make it closer to the 8 way to complicated I know this is a bit awkward to play, but once you get the hang of it, I feel like it plays well, while showing the difference between the drum sounds.
00:37:102 Or lower the tail of the previous slider or bump this a little bit higher This is another intense part of the song, yet I force the player to hit a slider for a long time, to dwell on the vocals/lyrics. I feel like I need to have a jump afterwards, anything else will just end up being anticlimactic
00:43:440 Should be higher the 2.5 spacing from the previous one looks fine, do that. I kinda touched this in a previous mod response, but I made this jump to mark a definite ending of that part of the song, to focus on the next bit.
00:45:540 As with the previous part you did like this, way to hard to hit IMO and even if you want to show that they are different sounds it feels way to terrible to play and read Same reason as before, probably even MORE so in this case
00:47:415 Make the jump closer to previous part This serves a nice contrast to the circles following the guitar, and I don't want to mess too much with it
00:59:595 You know the drill by now Same response as previously ;-)
01:04:044 closer to previous part Again emphasizing the drums
01:04:514 This one I wouldn't be oppose to being further of the 5 that came before I deliberately mapped this closer (and made the slider very curved), to build anticipation for the straight slider at 01:05:452 (4) - (I might increase the jump to that slider).
01:06:627 I would move this slightly closer to the middle feels more smooth to play at least in mouse Playing mouse only, I don't feel like the difference is enough to justify not emphasizing the snare
01:10:850 Not sure why is this so close if you are going by that the vocals stop it should have slowed down earlier besides counting the next 4 that is also apart i don't get it It follows the bass
01:17:639 Find it way to slow and you putting the next HC at 1/4 and that far apart is nuts Funny you didn't mention this specifically, when I did basically the same thing previously ( 00:46:249 (1,2,3) - ) however, as I said previously, the slider (and the notes before) are following the guitar, and the next to notes are making a contrast, following the drums.
01:19:051 Same as previous parts Same response
01:21:394 bring this one closer slightly at least I REALLY wanna emphasize the change between the two guitar parts, and I feel like it's especially important to do so in the first one
01:27:716 Closer to the (3) Remapped that bit
01:31:709 This part if my ears dont deceive me that they very well could as 01:19:999 and in this part you made the 3 much further from the 2 than in 01:31:709 I would even them out Remapped that part as well
01:41:552 - 1/3 are hard to acc not sure is correct to make people have to acc them, is most likely fine though just really punishing the player that's all Yeah, I know it's difficult, but it fits the song, and it shouldn't be too hard if you have decent acc

Overall as previously said I really find the jumps over the top I believe that not every map needs all diffs to be made and this is to "rabbit jumping" to be qualified could be very well wrong though so still wish you good luck!
I feel like the star rating of the song is a bit misleading, this map is intended for people around my own skill-level (can fc 5 star maps) and higher (especially since the next songs are going to be even more difficult). I can't even fc this! But as I mentioned, every jump is justified, and I will happily change any jump that is not.
I'm sorry I disagreed with so many things, but while the jumps are justifiable, you didn't really give any reason why I should make changes (this will probably come with more modding experience). My advice will be this: if possible, try to always give a reason why people should make the changes you suggest. I would personally always prefer a mod that has a few changes, but the changes are well explained, than a mod with a lot of suggestions, without any explanations.

But thanks for the mod anyway! It definitely helped with a few things, and I'll keep the jumps in mind, if other people point them out as well!

jawns wrote:

Mazziv wrote:

hi! nm from my queue o/

[Normal]

what are you trying to emphasize by consistenly changing sv? its a mess! Every sv change is deliberate, and to emphasize something in the vocals. Feel free to ask for an explanation for any changes you don't think makes sense
00:02:624 (5) - could be better emphasized with a slider until 00:03:319 - Doing that would result in completely ignoring two syllables of the vocals. I could make two sliders, but I like the way it works with a repeat slider
00:05:410 (4) - 1/1 slider please I don't see the logic behind doing that
00:06:343 (5) - single note ^
00:13:854 (4) - extend the slider until 00:14:559 - ^ and I want the rhythm in the intro to be consistent, so I don't want to use a 3/4 slider only once
the whole part where it goes wild has no structure,no patterns v: it looks super random Ever single note (including spacing/slider shapes/slider velocities) is mapped to emphasize something in the song. Feel free to point out, if you feel like parts of my map fail to do so.

i recommend you re-mapping this but with a slight idea in your head. right now it looks super clunky and super random
v: if you remapped it with (patterns,consistant and reasonable spacing and all that stuff) u ask for a re-check if you want!
I'm sorry, but "remap everything" is not really very helpful advice. Also, stuff like " with a slight idea in your head" is frankly just condescending. Feel free to come back and make a proper mod, if you want kudosu.

N0thingSpecial wrote:

just passing by

Firstly, if you change SV you need to NC to hint that it's a different SV slider, easy concept, everyone is doing it, if BN ever come around and mod this they will tell you the same most likely. I don't feel like that would make a lot of sense with this map in particular, because I would literally have to NC during the middle of a word. Second of all, NC is obviously mostly used to differentiate between different parts of the song/melody, but if I added NC to nearly every single slider it would completely loose that function

While I'm on topic, having constant SV change is not wrong but the way you are spacing and placing your sliders doesn't suggest intuitive gameplay. NC could only help so much, the rest really lies on aesthetic consistency, you are really lacking in patterning, to group together ascending and descending intensity of the vocals, you're not making it easier for the for the players to recognize a pattern in the SV change, cause majority of the entire fukin human race likes to group shit together so it could be easier on their brains, not saying you randomly placed them, I see there was an effort, but it is no where obvious enough for the players to actually feel intuitive to play. I'm very much aware that I could make it more intuitive for the first-time player of the map, but I would have to map it in a way that would fit the music less, or at least MY interpretation of the music. That's why it feels so intuitive to me, and I'm sure it would also feel intuitive to some people (at lest after a couple of tries so they know what is going on), but I am aware that no where near all people will find the map intuitive. To be honest, I don't really care.

Ok you might here say "it fits the music imo I have a love hate relationship with this word" and "it's not for intuitive game play, it's for fun", then I have two things to say:

1. well fukin 1/2 note spams throughout the entire song is also fitting to the song that I know enough, that's why there's so many shitty brain dead effortless jump maps in the first place, "it fits imo" of course it fukin fits. The question is what do these sliders bring to the map, it's accurate hell yea I agree but how is this different from having constant SV sliders? try messing around with the sliders with constant 0.8-0.9 SV, it will play exactly the same. I'm honestly not quite sure what you are referring to here... "1/2 spams throughout the entire song" are you talking about this map? Jump maps in general? "What do these sliders bring to the map" what sliders? The ones in the intro, or the sliders in the rest of the song? I'm sorry, I might just be stupid, but I honestly don't know exactly what you are referring to...
2. Ok even if you say that it makes a difference, how is that difference recognizable? Where's the consistency in inconsistency?
   00:01:243 (2,3,4) - these 3 sound exactly the same and you put 3 different SV in it, there's no background music to support a scaling intensity, the "climax " is not even strong enough to deserves a scaling intensity I'll be happy to explain my reasoning behind these: The first (and longest) slider of the three, comes on the first real beat of the song. It's also the "a big white tick" or however you wanna put it, so since it's such a strong beat, I want to emphasize it a lot. The next slider is much less significant, it's not on a strong beat and it's the second syllable of a word. The last slider is a new word, and I feel like it's generally a bit more significant than the previous beat, so it has a SV somewhere in between the two previous ones. At the same time, this slider kinda leads on towards the next slide, increasing the intensity a tiny bit, thought it's only just noticeable when playing.
   00:04:014 (1,2,3) - these a practically lower pitch version of 00:01:243 (2,3,4) - but why the SV change patterning is different? Because of the context. These sliders come after the melody jumps to notes that are significantly deeper than the previous, which is why I start of with a low SV, and just before a jump to significantly higher notes, which is why I increase the intensity.
   00:12:443 (1,2,3) - same thing This pretty much follows the same pattern as your previous point, but compared to the first point, these are the first notes after a long break. In the beginning of the first note, you can clearly hear, that the first syllable isn't very clear, and this in my opinion makes it sound weak, which is my reason for using a lower SV. Then I increase the SV to build up to the increase in pitch in the song.
   00:13:854 (4) - higher pitch higher SV right? right? oh nvm it's lower SV Only a few of the notes in the intro last for longer than one beat, this is one of the few that don't. I have consistently emphasized these notes with very low SV, to force the player to really linger on those notes.
   Like I'm trying hard to find a consistent reasoning behind your SV change, like how articulation, tonality and other stuff, stuff like 00:07:275 (2,3) - how you use constant SV for emphasis in articulation, but articulation wasn't a major role in the vocals so it wasn't enough to justify the randomness of the rest. THIS is what Massive meant by "it looks super clunky and super random" I get that it might look random, but as I said, everything is thought through and is justifiable, and I firmly believe that all this will result in a map that is intuitive to players that either A: knows the song well, or B: has played the map a few times and knows it well.

Like I get you're trying to be creative and original but this is really lack luster and underwhelming, I could go longer onto how you could extend the idea of "basing SV on intensity" and apply it to your 1/2 note spam but you clearly haven't found an effective formula to actually apply it consistently throughout the map yet, thus the feeling of randomness, you're not taking the idea far enough. I'm not trying to be anything. I'm trying to make the most enjoyable map I possibly can, and I think this is close to that. I have reasons to map the way I do, and I see no reason to use techniques that people might consider "basic mapping". Stuff like "aesthetic" and "good patterns" and even "consistency", I have not seen a proper reason why I should apply stuff like this to my maps, and frankly I don't think I ever will

I highly suggest you actually sit down and make a consistent looking map, cause here's an analogy: "to be sure that you're answering perfectly incorrect to a question, you must know the perfect answer for that question", to map something abnormal you must know how to map something normal in the first place. After that you can alter what's fundamental in normal map and alter it consistently in the map that's really how HW get away with bullshit SV change, it's consistent and obvious, both aesthetically and playing wise. But I'm just not trying to map something abnormal. I'm not trying to map something normal either. I just want to map something good. If something makes sense to me, I will apply it, if it doesn't I won't. I never think "what's a weird/interesting/unique way to map this" I simply think "What is the best way to map this". Or "How can I best map this, to it reflects my interpretation of the song.

but one things for sure and yes it's an insult, but BNs/QATs wouldn't even touch your map if your slider art stays this way and I'm 99% sure about it. unless you made it consistently like how monstrata did with alien, but look how that map turned out and you can't pull it off cause you don't even know how to make good looking map in the eyes of the majority Yes I do realize I'm a fukin hypocrite for saying this. Well, I hope BNs/QATs would judge my map on it's own merits, but to be honest, I don't really care about if they will like it or not. Heck, I wouldn't even mind too much if nobody likes my map. And to be honest, I've never understood why people give a fuck about maps being "good looking".

I hope my trust in your stubbornness is good enough to not demotivate you from mapping Not sure exactly what you mean, but my stubbornness will probably always make sure I won't be demotivated from mapping

I probably don't even need to KDS I just want to see red text all over my rant, Nah, I don't mind giving Kudosu to people who actually put a lot of thought and effort into their mods. And even though this mod barely focused on this map in particular, you pointed out as many things as Mazziv did, and fleshed them out more, besides everything else that you wrote.

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Just another comment after reading your replies, probably my last, if you ever want to rank something you might want to serious re-consider some of your concept behind how you map in general

I think I can see where your problem lies, I think you will ultimately disagree with me, but essentially you're using too much "it fits the music" and not looking at the bigger picture too much, ok you say you want to make a good map, essentially you want people to play your map and think "hey that was fun I want to play that again", my comment that you're confused about is what I'm saying here. It fits doesn't equal to it's fun. If you want to include non-meta slider SV changes for the sake of "it fits", that sounds fun on paper but in the end if people can't recognize that there's a consistency in those non-meta slider SV changes, they would ultimately find it random despite it fits the music 100% perfectly.

people don't play the map because "it fits" otherwise there would only be one difficulty on each song, and those 23 diff spread mapsets wouldn't exist. That's why I said "majority of the entire fukin human race likes to group shit together so it could be easier on their brains", nobody gives a shit about YOUR interpretation, people only care about how you pattern the map accordingly to the song so that it would provide a consistent and dynamic experience to the song. You understanding the song doesn't mean players will understand the same way, how you let the players learn the song through your interpretation is the point here, focusing on how individual sliders and notes correspond to the specific sound in the music doesn't help them understand the song, patterning and aesthetic will

if it's only one person is thinking it's random it might be his fault, but when several people tell you something feels random there has to be a reason behind it, all of your arguments are about "how I think it's a good interpretation" and not exactly countering our concerns for it feeling random, we feel that it's random cause there's not a central big idea revolving around how you interpret it in the first place, we're not concerned with is your interpretation on individual notes are correct or not.

N0thingSpecial wrote:

You're kinda contradicting yourself by saying other's opinion is second priority and saying the map is to get an emotional response in the player. I'm sure you have a great idea in your mind, but the execution of the idea is very mediocre to the point i think this is made by me 7 months ago, this has nothing to do with your interpretation and central idea assuming you have one, this is the modding process if people can't understand your intentions you're only going to get useless DS blanket nazi mods, or people telling you to remap, and this is the fault of the mapper, not the modder, it is the responsibility of the mapper to make the most retarded unskilled player understand your intention of your map. There are lots of emotionally expressive maps, if they are successful in doing so, the only two feedback they're going get is "this is a good and effective map" and "I understand the map but I don't like how it is mapped". At this moment people are having a hard time figuring out your map so they're just going to respond with "this is a bad map" or "I don't understand the map" so they can't give you actual advice to improve your original idea

Also when you say you have a central idea, can you describe it in 5 words cause I don't have the slightest idea other than "it fits"

jawns wrote:

I might not have been clear about this, but when I map, I want to make a map that I consider good. What other people think about the map, is second priority by a huge margin.

N0thingSpecial wrote:

You're kinda contradicting yourself by saying other's opinion is second priority and saying the map is to get an emotional response in the player. I'm sure you have a great idea in your mind, but the execution of the idea is very mediocre to the point i think this is made by me 7 months ago, this has nothing to do with your interpretation and central idea assuming you have one, this is the modding process if people can't understand your intentions you're only going to get useless DS blanket nazi mods, or people telling you to remap, and this is the fault of the mapper, not the modder, it is the responsibility of the mapper to make the most retarded unskilled player understand your intention of your map. There are lots of emotionally expressive maps, if they are successful in doing so, the only two feedback they're going get is "this is a good and effective map" and "I understand the map but I don't like how it is mapped". At this moment people are having a hard time figuring out your map so they're just going to respond with "this is a bad map" or "I don't understand the map" so they can't give you actual advice to improve your original idea

Also when you say you have a central idea, can you describe it in 5 words cause I don't have the slightest idea other than "it fits"

09simp wrote:

00:00:774 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,3,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - remap MiniK

brdzxh wrote:

>no/little mapper experience
>big project
>requests mods
>rejects everything
> "guys look at me I know everything about mapping hahah xd!!!!"


Just consider what everyone says and look at it from another players perspective


no kudosu Kappa

brdzxh wrote:

>no/little mapper experience
>big project
>requests mods
>rejects everything
> "guys look at me I know everything about mapping hahah xd!!!!"


Just consider what everyone says and look at it from another players perspective


no kudosu

jawns wrote:

brdzxh wrote:

>no/little mapper experience
>big project
>requests mods
>rejects everything
> "guys look at me I know everything about mapping hahah xd!!!!"


Just consider what everyone says and look at it from another players perspective


no kudosu Kappa

I feel like people don't understand, I really enjoy my map. And I'm not going to change things, just so other people will enjoy it more.

But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate feedback. My mapping is not perfect, and people are very welcome to give advice on how I can make my map more enjoyable. But that doesn't mean I have to follow that advice, if I think it will make my map less enjoyable. And as I pointed out, so far 3/4 mods have resulted in changes in the map.

And I'm well aware I know fuck all about mapping. But I know what I like...

maybe something doesn't add up

brdzxh wrote:

>no/little mapper experience
>big project
>requests mods
>rejects everything
> "guys look at me I know everything about mapping hahah xd!!!!"


Just consider what everyone says and look at it from another players perspective


no kudosu Kappa

brdzxh wrote:

>maps for own satisfaction
>other peoples suggestions are irrelevent
>asks for mods to improve map
>says "your suggestions are useless"
>expects it to get better

everything you say contradicts itself lo



maybe something doesnt add up

> Normal
> 4.59*

Uhmm

Anyways, is there a need to ask for mods, if you are gonna deny every single suggestion? That's only a waste of time for the modder, and it'll make them feel useless. Please be less stubborn, and actually consider some things. Fort used to have the same issue, that he was insanely stubborn, but he did have lots of mapping experience. It's alright to not accept suggestion, if you have proper reasoning, but the fact that a rather newbie mapper rejects points from rather experienced modders really blows my mind

FYI, I haven't checked the map, so I don't know in what sense everyone is right

jawns wrote:

brdzxh wrote:

>maps for own satisfaction
>other peoples suggestions are irrelevent
>asks for mods to improve map
>says "your suggestions are useless"
>expects it to get better

everything you say contradicts itself lo



maybe something doesnt add up

wtf, where did you get that from? Did I ever say suggestions are irrelevant/useless? I appreciate feedback, and criticism, though I don't always agree with it. I just don't see why I should as a default agree with every suggestion thrown my way. But as I said, 3 mods have already resulted in the map being changed. Only slightly, but it's still changes.
There's really only two problems I've had with mods so far. Only two kinds of mods, where I would say the suggestions are "irrelevant". The first one is when people don't explain why something I mapped doesn't work. Or more importantly, why their suggestion works better.
The other problem is the people (or person) who literally says "remap everything". You would never hear anybody say that to any other kind of artist would you? If a musician asked you for criticism, and you reply "you need to change all the notes". A lot of heart, soul and effort went into that map, I'm not just going to change everything. Small changes I can get behind (sometimes), stuff that doesn't completely change the way the map is made, but if you ask me to make major changes, I feel like you are just disrespecting the whole concept of the map.
Now, just because your advice doesn't fit into either of those categories doesn't mean I will automatically agree with it. At the end of the day, if I think the suggestion makes the map worse, I won't add it to the map.

But in short, this is roughly what the process of this map has been like:
>finish a map I'm really happy with
>post this map to the forums, ask for feedback
>to a lot of the feedback I think "that's a cool suggestion, but I honestly like it better as it is"
>to some feedback I think "yeah, that makes sense, I'm going to change that"
>the map is steadily improving, while the original concept/feel/qualities of the map remains

> Normal
> 4.59*

Uhmm

Anyways, is there a need to ask for mods, if you are gonna deny every single suggestion? That's only a waste of time for the modder, and it'll make them feel useless. Please be less stubborn, and actually consider some things. Fort used to have the same issue, that he was insanely stubborn, but he did have lots of mapping experience. It's alright to not accept suggestion, if you have proper reasoning, but the fact that a rather newbie mapper rejects points from rather experienced modders really blows my mind

FYI, I haven't checked the map, so I don't know in what sense everyone is right

First of all, don't pay too much attention to the name, it's just kind of there as a placeholder/joke...

Second of all, I don't automatically deny every single suggestion, far from it (unless it's stupid stuff like "remap everything". I think about every piece of feedback I receive, but as I said, that doesn't mean I will ultimately agree with them. I have a reason to place every single note where it's placed, and thus I have a reason to deny every suggestion I have denied, especially if you didn't provide a reason for me to follow your suggestion in the first place.

And I do realize that modders can be discouraged because of the fact that I deny a lot of suggestions. And for that I am sorry, but nobody is obligated to mod my map, and I won't be upset if people decide not to. But I still appreciate feedback, and I am thankful for every suggestion that I get, especially if it results in a change however small it may be. And if I ever get a mod from someone who understands exactly what I am trying to do, and how to do it better, I will probably end up agreeing with almost every point he makes. Sadly though, this hasn't happened yet...

And when it comes to not following the advice of more experience mappers, I have a few reasons. First of all, I feel like even the most experienced person can be wrong, especially when it comes to something as subjective as art.
But probably more importantly, I think my map is better. I'm not saying my map has "higher quality" of that it's what "the community would consider a good map", all I'm saying is that I enjoy playing my maps more than I enjoy playing their maps. And honestly, I think my maps are more fun than most ranked maps as well...

Mazziv wrote:

just stop it guys,its no use lol

jawns wrote:

. And if I ever get a mod from someone who understands exactly what I am trying to do, and how to do it better, I will probably end up agreeing with almost every point he makes. Sadly though, this hasn't happened yet...

MaridiuS wrote:

tfw BN's visit such threads while so many people with decent maps can't find one..