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Omoi - Snow Drive(01.23)

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Topic Starter
Kroytz
@Halfslashed

Yes, I said the difference between NHI is density due to rhythm. Revieweing from a gameplay point of view, which is what I've been talking about with you, is that the Normal difficulty is based around oversimplified rhythm that plays with basic DS and no complicated patterns. Then, Hard is simplified rhythm that also uses ideas of Normal while introducing patterns at a more sound rhythm (here being 1/1s and 1/2s). Now, due to the rhythm composition of Hard, it only feels like it's a bigger jump than Normal because we've gone from using a bunch of 3/2s, 2/1s, and 1/1s to a lot of 1/1s and 1/2s.
This in my opinion is reasonable when it comes to songs at this high BPM because the gameplay mechanics coming from Normal to Hard now adjusts to fit the music more properly; no longer is it oversimplified, now it's only been simplified.
Lastly moving from Hard to insane is introducing the last bits of rhythm complexity such as 1/4s, repeat sliders, and not following the DS that eases the transition of the NHI series into the XXXX diffs. As I've said before, it moreso becomes the player keeping up with the speed of the song at 224bpm rather than trying to play the map for what it offers. Even for some lower 6digit players (let's just say borderline 7 digits), Normal might be hard to keep up with at this high BPM. It's simply the nature of how music works, less time between notes adds density, adds difficulty.
Myxo
The problem is that 'Normal' uses rhythms you'd normally find in an Easy difficulty (on regular BPM), when 'Hard' starts to use continuous strings of 1/2-objects. Even though there are many sliders, these rhythms are what you'd find in an easier Hard difficulty on regular BPM. The actual difficulty gap is even bigger due to the high BPM than it would be on lower BPM, though.

About the gap between Hard and Insane, it's significantly less huge than the Normal to Hard gap. Again, comparing these rhythms on regular BPM, 'Hard' looks like a relatively easy Hard, 'Insane' looks like a relatively easy Insane. The gap is still quite big, but not as extreme as the lower one.



After long discussions with people, I decided to take this mapset down again. I highly recommend you to fix this issue before pushing it for ranked and balance the spread out more. Best solution would be to add a difficulty between Normal and Hard, and maybe increase the difficulty of Hard a bit afterwards to make the spread more even (because otherwise the Hard - Insane gap will be significantly larger than anything else when adding another difficulty).

I understand the frustration this might bring, but it's really necessary to make this mapset accessible for a wider playerbase.
Topic Starter
Kroytz
Omoi - Snow Drive(01.23) coming Christmas 2017

See you all at the end of the year!
Cryptic
Christmas has been saved?
See you in 12 months.
vipto

Shiirn wrote:

how to completely fucking ignore the music and vocals and map practically and functionally random cross-screen 1/2s that change momentum and rotation at unpredictable points and in general is a bloody mess to look at. and that's just the kiai.



i hope you're banking on more than bullshit meme power to get this ranked, otherwise you might as well give up while you're ahead. The jump sections (all 20+ of them) need a complete do-over. I'm rather bored of seeing people map literally randomly placed jumps. At least have some basic concept of momentum or cursor positioning. And get a sense of rhythm, while you're at it.
ABSOLUTE EPIC 3
 
ColdTooth
call me if you want an advanced diff, as im willing

i also have tiny concerns on normal w/ od4 and hp4, although don't take that seriously because i must suck at mapping
Monstrata
Maybe don't aim to rank/qualify a map on specific dates so there's not so much stress in fending off otherwise helpful remarks. Bitter/self-righteous people will try extra hard to argue their points if you seem to be rejecting them in order to fit a schedule..
Weber

Monstrata wrote:

Maybe don't aim to rank/qualify a map on specific dates so there's not so much stress in fending off otherwise helpful remarks.
Battle
headphonewearer
why at christmas 2017 tho? doesnt really make any sense tbh. i know that its a reference because of "snow" drive but still.
ConsumerOfBean
its still winter you dont need to wait another 11 months and forget about the map rank it already lul
Zyl
Random Mod


There are too much controversial things about the normal diff...


BHR's Normal



  1. 00:08:230 (1) - Out of screen, i don't really know if i'm the only one...
  2. 00:17:858 (1) - Keep it on the screen.
  3. 00:29:643 (1,2) - Is weird that you followed the song almost perfect right here, but ¿Why you ignore the emphasis with the same sound right here 00:31:786 (1) - & here 00:33:929 (1) - ?
  4. 00:37:143 (2) - Keep it on the screen.
  5. 00:39:286 (2) - I don't feel that need a repeat here 00:39:554 (2) - .
  6. 00:50:000 (3) - And another one off the screen.
  7. 00:53:215 (1) - Looks really bad.
  8. 01:00:715 (2) - ¿Why did you ignored those beats?.
  9. 01:03:929 (1) - Looks awful.
  10. 01:11:429 (2) - Keep it on the screen, men did you know that, those sliders off the screen are unrakable, right?
  11. 01:18:929 (1) - You should map that part.
  12. 02:07:143 (1) - Keep it on the screen...
  13. 02:25:224 (2) - ^.
  14. 02:25:893 (3) - ^.
  15. 03:18:929 (2) - It feels weird.
  16. 03:33:929 (2) - Keep it on the screen...
  17. 03:36:608 (3) - ^.
  18. 03:38:215 (1) - ^.
  19. 03:58:304 (2,3,4,5,6) - This is just too much.

Btw the "Snow Drive Extreme" 1. Haves 2 custom names on the mapset(which is unrankable), 2. the mapping is horrible ¬¬. the whole map haves a Double-A mapping skills, except for that diff.

Also, maybe the modders are link "angry", because why you think that you could rank this on 1/23, men a rank takes like 1 week, ¡2 sometimes! or the simple thing of your "toxic" way to reply to the modders, making them to look stupid, when they are just trying to help you, and you maybe think that you have a perfect mapset, yeah the mapset is good but can improve, try to be a better person and do not think that anything is perfect if you made it, if the people helps you, you should say thanks, if that wasn't helpful you should say: No, thanks, and don't give them a reply them with the purpose of making feel them dumb, that's all.

Good luck on ranking... if this anytime will rank...

Also... the mp4 files... yeah osu! don't recognize them...
Battle
Well, since I haven't replied to like the mods for a while and this is all on my part I might as well reply lol

None of the timestamps you placed regarding offscreen sliders are actually offscreen. What constitutes for an offscreen slider are the ones that are offscreen in gameplay, not editor.
Besides that point, stuff like 01:00:715 (2) - is left purposely unmapped to add emphasis to a certain section, for this the pause creates emphasis on the measure by leaving it unmapped.
00:29:643 (1,2) - is clearly different from all the other rhythms of this section, you can hear that the overall mood of the song has slowed down for this section, which is shown with the different rhythm.
Aaaaaaaand the whole slider looking bad thing is subjective so lol

I dunno about the last thing since it's on rocket's part but that's all from me
Anxient
mapping is hard
3312
vakekok
[Anx's N]
tbh theres kinda too much overlaps even tho i kno its like 4/1 buts its still kinda taxing for new players to read idk
also im kinda confused on where you're focusing at,sometimes you focus on vocal and suddenly you focus on the drums/snares/idk
01:12:500 (3) - nc since the girl strts talking again in here
01:35:804 - y dont put a note here,feels kinda fitting if you put a note here tbh
01:41:965 (3,1) - feel kinda clunky for new players to play
02:07:679 (2,3,1) - why didnt you make it straight like what u did w 02:08:750 (2,3,1) - n 02:09:822 (2,3,1) -
02:12:500 (3,4) - would be better if you can try to blanket this but idk doesnt rlly look like possible
02:43:572 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - kinda feels weird that you only put a long reverse slider (1/1 1/2 idk) 02:43:572 (1) - in a part with the same sound repeated several times
03:00:715 (1,2) - parts like this are better if mapped like this imo
Yukiyo
Kroytz forced asked me to look at Anxient's Normal so here I am

-> check all blankets again

-> read this
IRC log where I started modding
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: okay yukiyo
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: unfortunately its still a mod req but, on a single difficulty. normal level. its for snow drive ><;;
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: i got a different request
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: do you thinkyou can help?
2017-02-09 16:44 Yukiyo: normal difficulty?
2017-02-09 16:44 Yukiyo: Ugh
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: goes by quickly at least~
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: free KD tho? ;D
2017-02-09 16:45 Yukiyo: I don't think I can keep up with high level disscussions on normals
2017-02-09 16:45 Yukiyo: i dont kd
2017-02-09 16:45 Kroytz: eh
2017-02-09 16:45 Kroytz: I guess
2017-02-09 16:47 Yukiyo: do ppl even blanket these days?
2017-02-09 16:47 Kroytz: yes
2017-02-09 16:47 Yukiyo: well I guess anxient doesn't
2017-02-09 16:47 Kroytz: ahah..ha..ha.
2017-02-09 16:48 Yukiyo: [http://puu.sh/tVuNL/b130075868.jpg LOOK AT THIS ABOMINATION]
2017-02-09 16:48 Kroytz: yeah I saw that too lol
2017-02-09 16:48 Yukiyo: 01:02:858 (2,3) -
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: why does that even
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: it shifts the focus on the white beat of the slider
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: when accounting for the vocals that's bs
2017-02-09 16:49 Kroytz: ask him not meeeeeeee
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: imo
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: you asked me to look
2017-02-09 16:50 Kroytz: I mean like, in mod post thing yknow
2017-02-09 16:50 Yukiyo: I can post this log
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: 01:15:447 (3) - missing the great big white tick ;(
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: 01:22:411 (3,3) - using the same space here feels awkward
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: and gives
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: ... it's jus something you haven't done before
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: ok I'll do the rest via post
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: xd
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: sorryy
2017-02-09 16:53 Kroytz: ty~ ^^;
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: XDDD
2017-02-09 16:53 Kroytz: XD

02:06:072 (1,2) - why not use the actual 1/3 rhythm here should not cause any problems if placed correctly it's a normal step it up (and that of a 230bpm song at that)
02:26:429 (1,2,3,4) - this embodies alot less intensity than 02:24:286 (1,2,3,4) - ... make them the same, vocally speaking the same stuff is happening
02:26:429 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Why are those the same rhythms while the second combo totally changes up vocals and increases intensity
02:57:500 (3) - I think a reverse silder would be a better way of capturing the long held sound as the player is not pressing anything while still getting the drums. Also it creats rhthym parellilsm with 02:56:429 (1) - which are both held notes and in this sense equal.
03:17:858 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Too many repeat sliders for the amount of build up intensity imo

There seem to be alot of inconsistency in similar parts with different rhythm though I am not a professional when it comes to normals

Isuck
Anxient

3312 wrote:

vakekok
[Anx's N]
tbh theres kinda too much overlaps even tho i kno its like 4/1 buts its still kinda taxing for new players to read idk - not really confusing i think. i used the same positions of previous notes repeatedly, but nothing like overlaps.
also im kinda confused on where you're focusing at,sometimes you focus on vocal and suddenly you focus on the drums/snares/idk - focus on whatever is most prominent is how i roll tbh. always worked for me.
01:12:500 (3) - nc since the girl strts talking again in here - applied
01:35:804 - y dont put a note here,feels kinda fitting if you put a note here tbh - trying to play it safe and avoid issues that involve spinner gap on lower diffs. if a BN/QAT specifically says thats its fine to map this, ill do it.
01:41:965 (3,1) - feel kinda clunky for new players to play - changed the angle
02:07:679 (2,3,1) - why didnt you make it straight like what u did w 02:08:750 (2,3,1) - n 02:09:822 (2,3,1) - as much as i love straight sliders, i feel even this part would feel too stiff if i didnt add something to BREAK THE SNOW
02:12:500 (3,4) - would be better if you can try to blanket this but idk doesnt rlly look like possible - its possible, and i just fixed it. hoo hah!
02:43:572 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - kinda feels weird that you only put a long reverse slider (1/1 1/2 idk) 02:43:572 (1) - in a part with the same sound repeated several times - if i kepy with the 1/1+1/2, it would feel repetitive as all hell, and definately not exciting to play.
03:00:715 (1,2) - parts like this are better if mapped like this imo - id be ignoring alot of drum kicks if i did that. drums take more priority than the synth imo.
big thank!

Yukiyo wrote:

Kroytz forced asked me to look at Anxient's Normal so here I am

-> check all blankets again

-> read this
IRC log where I started modding
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: okay yukiyo
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: unfortunately its still a mod req but, on a single difficulty. normal level. its for snow drive ><;;
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: i got a different request
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: do you thinkyou can help?
2017-02-09 16:44 Yukiyo: normal difficulty?
2017-02-09 16:44 Yukiyo: Ugh
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: goes by quickly at least~
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: free KD tho? ;D
2017-02-09 16:45 Yukiyo: I don't think I can keep up with high level disscussions on normals
2017-02-09 16:45 Yukiyo: i dont kd - he lied.
2017-02-09 16:45 Kroytz: eh
2017-02-09 16:45 Kroytz: I guess
2017-02-09 16:47 Yukiyo: do ppl even blanket these days?
2017-02-09 16:47 Kroytz: yes
2017-02-09 16:47 Yukiyo: well I guess anxient doesn't - coz i suck at it.
2017-02-09 16:47 Kroytz: ahah..ha..ha.
2017-02-09 16:48 Yukiyo: [http://puu.sh/tVuNL/b130075868.jpg LOOK AT THIS ABOMINATION] - hey i fixed that >:[
2017-02-09 16:48 Kroytz: yeah I saw that too lol
2017-02-09 16:48 Yukiyo: 01:02:858 (2,3) - i-is it really a problem?
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: why does that even
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: it shifts the focus on the white beat of the slider
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: when accounting for the vocals that's bs
2017-02-09 16:49 Kroytz: ask him not meeeeeeee
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: imo
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: you asked me to look
2017-02-09 16:50 Kroytz: I mean like, in mod post thing yknow
2017-02-09 16:50 Yukiyo: I can post this log
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: 01:15:447 (3) - missing the great big white tick ;( - ok sweetie
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: 01:22:411 (3,3) - using the same space here feels awkward - same tbh
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: and gives
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: ... it's jus something you haven't done before
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: ok I'll do the rest via post
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: xd
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: sorryy
2017-02-09 16:53 Kroytz: ty~ ^^;
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: XDDD
2017-02-09 16:53 Kroytz: XD
2017-02-09 ??:?? Anxient: XD

02:06:072 (1,2) - why not use the actual 1/3 rhythm here should not cause any problems if placed correctly it's a normal step it up (and that of a 230bpm song at that) - it felt like using 1/3 in a 230 bpm song would be too fast (rhythm wise anyway). Like ermahgerd so sudden yo!
02:26:429 (1,2,3,4) - this embodies alot less intensity than 02:24:286 (1,2,3,4) - ... make them the same, vocally speaking the same stuff is happening - they are though? i mean sure the repeat is in different places but thats because of the vocals.
02:26:429 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Why are those the same rhythms while the second combo totally changes up vocals and increases intensity - changed it up a bit.
02:57:500 (3) - I think a reverse silder would be a better way of capturing the long held sound as the player is not pressing anything while still getting the drums. Also it creats rhthym parellilsm with 02:56:429 (1) - which are both held notes and in this sense equal. - it would feel to repetitive if i did that, no?
03:17:858 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Too many repeat sliders for the amount of build up intensity imo - although i disagree , i agree i went overboard on the repeat sliders. changed some up.

There seem to be alot of inconsistency in similar parts with different rhythm though I am not a professional when it comes to normals - reeeee

Isuck - rlynow
thanks yall http://puu.sh/tVwNY/5f94077a47.osu

remap inc
Saileach
Anxients
00:10:358 (1,2,3) - Might seem jaring for a new player going from the vocals to the back beat then back to the vocals, maybe 2 3/2 sliders would work better?
02:18:929 - Feels Very empty considering there is clear things that could be mapped here
02:44:643 (2,3) - Considering how this has been expressed before in the song, i feel like consistency in rhythm choices would help a new player more than having changes just to make it feel new, it would make more sense to me to use this change in the last kiai rather than here.

Sorry for the short mod, didnt have much time
sdafsf
anxient's normal
00:57:500 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - this section is all the same rhytm and yet you decided to chose 3 different ways to represent it. for the last combo you even mapped a different sound. it should be consistent imo
01:27:902 (2) - there is not sound on this red tick. i would choose a rhythm that closely follows the music in a normal diff.
01:28:974 (2) - ^
01:30:045 (2) - ^
02:43:572 (1) - this section is mapped too differently to this imo 03:35:000 (1) - . if one kiai has to be more intense it should be the last kiai. the only kiai you chose to map in a very hard and intense way was the middle one which is a poor decision imo.i would either make them all consistent or make the last kiai the hardest(preferable even the arigato kiai).
03:59:643 (1) - make this end hitsound louder
bad mod sorry :(. i didnt really find anything bad so i tried hard to find things i dont like
Anxient

- Rain - wrote:

Anxients
00:10:358 (1,2,3) - Might seem jaring for a new player going from the vocals to the back beat then back to the vocals, maybe 2 3/2 sliders would work better? - spread would be weird considering that if i did that it would be another easy diff
02:18:929 - Feels Very empty considering there is clear things that could be mapped here - im keeping the consistemcy with the pause i put 02:16:116 -
02:44:643 (2,3) - Considering how this has been expressed before in the song, i feel like consistency in rhythm choices would help a new player more than having changes just to make it feel new, it would make more sense to me to use this change in the last kiai rather than here. - you call it variety, i call it increasing the difficulty. a map's no fun if it doesnt get harder imo :p plus i think its pretty fine as is. no need to change anything

Sorry for the short mod, didnt have much time

sdafsf wrote:

anxient's normal
00:57:500 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - this section is all the same rhytm and yet you decided to chose 3 different ways to represent it. for the last combo you even mapped a different sound. it should be consistent imo - keeping the first one, made the third variety consistent with the 2nd variety
01:27:902 (2) - there is not sound on this red tick. i would choose a rhythm that closely follows the music in a normal diff. - nice
01:28:974 (2) - ^
01:30:045 (2) - ^ - catch
02:43:572 (1) - this section is mapped too differently to this imo 03:35:000 (1) - . if one kiai has to be more intense it should be the last kiai. the only kiai you chose to map in a very hard and intense way was the middle one which is a poor decision imo.i would either make them all consistent or make the last kiai the hardest(preferable even the arigato kiai). - buffed kiai 3.1, left the arigatou kiai alone coz i wanted it to feel like a finale (not too hard, dropping the diff)
03:59:643 (1) - make this end hitsound louder - nah
bad mod sorry :(. i didnt really find anything bad so i tried hard to find things i dont like - you did pretty great :thinking:
Battle
naming our diff easy is going to make people complain about there not being enough recovery time on the spinner btw
Anxient
How about naming BNH's Normal Normal and the Hard diff advanced?
Topic Starter
Kroytz
On behalf of HappyRocket, a circle at the end of two-pre kiai spinners were removed to accommodate for the recovery time on Easy.
New HQ background since the old one was LQ apparently (requires redownload) (also thank you Anxient)
Spread is more balanced now with Anxient's Normal introduced.
Diff names are acceptable according to Desperate-kun-san.

Good to go~ :)
I Must Decrease
With the spread issue fixed, I think it is time to give this set another shot.


fuck my life
Lemanita
yey a bubble
Rizia
did some nc change
it should be good to go again now
requalified
_DT3
Woah nice, let's hope no DQ this time
Topic Starter
Kroytz
Thanks Irreversible and thank you everyone for making sure that the spread is properly balanced now~! :)
hi-mei
completely agree with the checklist

i guess the amount of nerves u spent on it deserves the qalification
gz ...
anna apple
Congrats on qualify, kroytz, too bad some people shiirn have to try and take your accomplishment and use it for their own attention.
Okoratu
can you people stop trying to slit each other's throats verbally

thanks

the comments about this version of the song are unnecessary, if you like another version of this more map it

why do people have to be so needlessly provocative
what do both sides gain from one baiting the other really hard and the other one wanting to kill the other one like really
if you have stuff to say about the map then actually say it instead of provoking nonsense

don't just derail the thread completely for your own purposes thanks
-sandAI
Kroytz do you think it would be possible to 'keysound' vocaloids? Taking seperate sounds and just assigning hitsounds to them? Pretty pointless but it would be pretty funny to see. Gratz on requalification, hope it sticks through D:
hi-mei
uh i guess i missed something from raikozen aka graveyard mapper for relax mod

the reason why u responded that offensively, is that shiirn was 200% right about this mapset


objectively, this mapset is getting ranked only because theres a lot way more shit maps got ranked in past year, so considering things like Quaver or Haitai, this one isnt that bad, lets be honest here.

tho i like this map (for warmup with relax, cuz most of stuff in top 2 diffs isnt intuitive and it basically fucks your right hand).
Xinnoh
gj on ranked again, can I just ask a question about your Extreme?

02:44:108 (5,6,1) - Why did you choose to cut the spacing in half on these jumps?
For the other kiai sections the jumps in this section tend to be increasing on 5,6 with the exception of 01:45:179 (5,6) - . But this is the only spot where distances decreases on this syllable. Either interpretation is fine for either following the syllables or the vocal volume, but it's a bit odd to have both.

6,1 is also half the size of the other jumps which doesn't make too much sense. You made the jump of 6,1 relatively larger on both the 1st and 3rd repetition of this part, which matches the change in chord on large white tick. But here the spacing is smaller? Doesn't make too much sense to me here.
SnowNiNo_
i think the spacing u mention in second kiai is mainly for structure consistent
but nah im not the mapper xd
Akali

-himei wrote:

uh i guess i missed something from raikozen aka graveyard mapper for relax mod
Are you jealous or something? Provide reasons for DQ or mod the map when it's in pending, what's the point of attacking someone's whole resume (with such an idiotic statement on top of that). I don't really like the set and hate the song but who cares, some people enjoy it, work was put into it and it's good enough.
Topic Starter
Kroytz
@-Vanilla: It's possible to keysound the vocals, I actually tried it for a bit but stopped because it didn't really do anything to compliment the music... Keysounding to vocals are a bit weak decision I'd think since a key is a stagnant sound whereas the vocal has much more waver to it. Although, you could probably keysound in harmony to the vocals and that might be better but a little extra work for something that again won't do much.

@-himei: I think your comment is a bit offensive to other mappers... You say it's "objective" as if your opinion is factual but it's just an opinion as to what you think of this set in comparison to other ranked maps in the past year.

@Sinnoh: NiNo is correct. It's more of a design thing similar to the 4th chorus where it triangulates, but this one is just a star pattern. The beginning of the "nai" vocal is the start of every star pattern in this section.

Hope this helps~
Kujinn
Just wondering, why every diff (apart from NiNo's) decided not to map the last 20 secs? I personally think it would've make a better ending than a long slider.
Xinnoh
Make sense, thanks for answering. Have fun dealing with the rest of the attention seekers.
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