As simple as the title suggests. A clearly defined note that requires 2 keys to be pressed simultaneously in order to hit. This wouldn't have been a real suggestion in the past because (if I recall correctly) peppy believed that osu! should be playable with 1key, but 1key play isn't even a gimmicky genre anymore, it's 100% dead.

Just no.
Also 1key playing isnt dead, alot of people singletap literally everything 140bpm and under (1/4ths) so it isnt dead. And some even singletap bpms higher than that

Please no
this doesn't sound fun at all imo

im a decent player and i single tap :/

osu! works perfectly this way since eight years.

Good idea +1 for sure

The only time people would accept something like this is if it was already in the game since or near the beginning. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

jesse1412 wrote:

As simple as the title suggests. A clearly defined note that requires 2 keys to be pressed simultaneously in order to hit. This wouldn't have been a real suggestion in the past because (if I recall correctly) peppy believed that osu! should be playable with 1key, but 1key play isn't even a gimmicky genre anymore, it's 100% dead.

To me it sounds like it would be too hard to even play some patterns. A double of these two-hitters would be very hard, as will doing one and the immediately streaming or doing anything else. It would be too hard and would take too long to recover on any fast maps for it to work. I don't think this is a good idea.

yes and I also request 3, 4, and 5 key notes

Zafufu wrote:

If you're saying the current form of gameplay is dead, then people wouldn't still be playing STD. And it's more about the targets than what keys you're supposed to press. The only way I think these notes should be added is in an optional mod, if at all.

Personally, I also feel t/427593 would be a more effective way to increase the key count at will.

I'm saying 1key exclusive gameplay is dead, not that standard is dead. No one tries to play the game with only 1key anymore, that was an old objective of design by peppy that is now obsolete. Without using a second key, osu! is basically unplayable. These double notes would be placed by the mapper, they wouldn't be random convoluted shit. I have experimented with the use of this concept using 1/16 doubles and it is definitely a playable and interesting concept.

-Jukke- wrote:

Just no.
Also 1key playing isnt dead, alot of people singletap literally everything 140bpm and under (1/4ths) so it isnt dead. And some even singletap bpms higher than that

1key EXCLUSIVE play is dead. No one plays relevant maps with only 1key. No one refuses to alternate streams, 2key is essential and integral to the game now, that's why this idea is more valid than in the past (when peppy believed maps should be possible with one key).

Seifhero wrote:

im a decent player and i single tap :/

Read above.

Stefan wrote:

osu! works perfectly this way since eight years.

What does this argument even mean. I could use it for literally any feature request. This changes nothing integral to osu! and for the most part won't alter gameplay, I wouldn't expect these kind of notes to become well used for at least a little while. Mappers will adjust and eventually it will become an interesting design option for people to use instead of butchered 1/16 doubles which hardly work due to note lock and are hence not currently a reasonable option.

F1r3tar wrote:

The only time people would accept something like this is if it was already in the game since or near the beginning. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It will not alter current maps at all, it's just a new tool available to mappers. This argument doesn't make much sense when it's not altering the current way of the game in any way.

Outline wrote:

jesse1412 wrote:

As simple as the title suggests. A clearly defined note that requires 2 keys to be pressed simultaneously in order to hit. This wouldn't have been a real suggestion in the past because (if I recall correctly) peppy believed that osu! should be playable with 1key, but 1key play isn't even a gimmicky genre anymore, it's 100% dead.

To me it sounds like it would be too hard to even play some patterns. A double of these two-hitters would be very hard, as will doing one and the immediately streaming or doing anything else. It would be too hard and would take too long to recover on any fast maps for it to work. I don't think this is a good idea.

Here's a 210bpm ghetto example of it quite reasonably working whilst having to deal with mad note lock. http://jesse1412.s-ul.eu/hVZkpk7m

darkmiz wrote:

yes and I also request 3, 4, and 5 key notes

Great, a strawman argument to throw into the mix. Strangely I don't recall osu! ever using 3,4 or 5 keys and hence I won't be requesting notes that require that many presses. Great argument though I was a bit stuck on how to respond for about 2 seconds.


Spro's graces of heaven uses this concept sparsely and it's incredibly fun. In the tamer sections it's easily readable too, even without a proper design to signify a "double" note. It would barely be a gimmick part of the map if his method of creating it wasn't so makeshift.

jesse1412 wrote:

It will not alter current maps at all, it's just a new tool available to mappers. This argument doesn't make much sense when it's not altering the current way of the game in any way.

I never said I was against this. I merely stated that usually, people are only willing to accept something that their either comfortable with, or have known since the beginning. It's like if FL wasn't a thing and someone suggested it now, it probably would never be implemented.

the thing is you can already do it, it's just takes longer without a tool to do so, feels clunky due to play cause of note lock, and is obviously unrankable. Like jesse said, it's just a new tool for mappers. This isn't some game play changing paradigm shift like giving sliders accuracy.

right now you're just being adversarial for the sake of being adversarial, like Stefan. May as well go to the forum index, open up the Adblock Element Hider, and do this if that's how you think:



'cause going into the Feature Requests forum to make replies like "this feature isnt going to happen becos its new" is beyond silly

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

the thing is you can already do it, it's just takes longer without a tool to do so, feels clunky due to play cause of note lock, and is obviously unrankable. Like jesse said, it's just a new tool for mappers. This isn't some game play changing paradigm shift like giving sliders accuracy.

right now you're just being adversarial for the sake of being adversarial, like Stefan. May as well go to the forum index, open up the Adblock Element Hider, and do this if that's how you think:



'cause going into the Feature Requests forum to make replies like "this feature isnt going to happen becos its new" is beyond silly

Also doing it the makeshift way is legitimately wrong timing for most cases.

How would you handle the hit windows on double notes?

Like if _ is a hit window and . is a 'keypress' would it work like _._._ or just _.._

or does it take how far apart your 2 keypresses were time-wise and just adds that difference to how late/early you tapped it in the first place? so if the map is od10 and you hit 15ms early and your double taps were 5ms apart you'd get a 100 because 15+5 = 20

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

How would you handle the hit windows on double notes?

Like if _ is a hit window and . is a 'keypress' would it work like _._._ or just _.._

or does it take how far apart your 2 keypresses were time-wise and just adds that difference to how late/early you tapped it in the first place? so if the map is od10 and you hit 15ms early and your double taps were 5ms apart you'd get a 100 because 15+5 = 20

Just take the time of the "second" press. They'll be barely a few ms apart anyway I would assume.

jesse1412 wrote:

Here's a 210bpm ghetto example of it quite reasonably working whilst having to deal with mad note lock. http://jesse1412.s-ul.eu/hVZkpk7m

You got 100s on almost all of those

Outline wrote:

jesse1412 wrote:

Here's a 210bpm ghetto example of it quite reasonably working whilst having to deal with mad note lock. http://jesse1412.s-ul.eu/hVZkpk7m

You got 100s on almost all of those

Those are 210bpm 1/16 doubles at 1/2 spacing using od10. Let me break that down. Firstly, 1/16th doubles aren't correctly timed because the second note is 1/16th out of place. Secondly, at OD10 there's a 19.5ms timing window to hit a 300, the time between two notes at 210bpm 1/16 is 1/(210*16/60) = 0.01785s = 17.9ms. What this essentially means is that you have to hit the notes slightly late compared to the proper 1/2 timing and you no longer have a +-19.5ms timing window, you have only a + 19.5ms timing window. You have to hit late AND you have to hit with double the precision required to get a 300 at od10 WHILST mentally forcing yourself to press late AND pressing 2keys at the same time whilst pressing at 210bpm 1/2 speed.

No shit it's mostly 100's. Hence why this feature request exists, to fix all of the problems with the ghetto method of implementing "double notes".

I don't see how it would be implemented well unless there was a mode for it.

Outline wrote:

I don't see how it would be implemented well unless there was a mode for it.

A mode for it? It would be a note you place in editor. I'm mildly confused.

what if a player uses a keyboard from the 16th century that only has 1-key rollover

e; i did this without vibrating not too long ago so there's a fraction of a percentage less dead for you

Sounds good tbh, the game could do with more hit-types anyway.

well the truth is, in taiko we have these big notes that require two keys pressed, and they are the devil when mixed with normal notes

cool idea, could lead to some interesting (ab)uses.

e: can i make a feature request to make voting multiple times less painful?

no, this isn't taiko, std is about aiming and tapping the correct rhythm, not having to decide which keys to use. while we're at it you could also suggest colored notes that require k1 or k2 (or k3, k4 extra keys for this purpuse only) to be pressed specifically etc. but that just doesn't fit what std is.

(also alternating is a thing, and double/restricted-key note spam would just force us to basically singletap, which I personally dislike and find boring, and I feel it would be unfair to suddenly force people into that.)

for more variety we could introduce hold notes, which are basically zero length sliders, that would be fine I guess.

Drezi wrote:

no, this isn't taiko, std is about aiming and tapping the correct rhythm, not having to decide which keys to use. while we're at it you could also suggest colored notes that require k1 or k2 (or k3, k4 extra keys for this purpuse only) to be pressed specifically etc. but that just doesn't fit what std is.

(also alternating is a thing, and double/restricted-key note spam would just force us to basically singletap, which I personally dislike and find boring, and I feel it would be unfair to suddenly force people into that.)

for more variety we could introduce hold notes, which are basically zero length sliders, that would be fine I guess.

just because it's not the same as it is currently, doesn't mean it's bad.

he suggested doubletap notes only, not some arbitrary shit you made up to make his suggestion look bad.

it's the same principle... as in restricting which keys you use to tap the rhythm, you can see both these elements in taiko.

Drezi wrote:

it's the same principle... you can see both these elements in taiko...

yes, but that's not what he suggested, is it? he didn't suggest colored notes, or using more keys than the current two you already use, or anything like that.

also, doubletaps in taiko aren't required afaik, you simply get more points for doubletaps on the larger notes than singletaps, and combo remains the same between single and doubletap.

why would doubletaps not aid in tapping the "correct" rhythm moreso than single keys only? doubletapping emphasised beats could be quite fun, assuming it matches the music.

This would bring a whole new mapping trend with so many possibilities and fun, sign me up.

So would you only be required to do this for K1+K2 and M1 would always count as "correct", because how do you press "M2" on touchscreen or tablet only?
Also would hitting 2 keys on a regular note count as a miss? If so it would interfere with streamed 1/4 notes on like any bpm above 150 even on high OD (some double tabs that should count as a 300 and a 50 would become a double miss).

As a new mode it could work like a mix of mania+osu! and you could even add more than 2 keys, 3k or 4k (or 5k with like spacebar) and aiming with second hand. Don't see how it could work in osu! classic.

There's a few 'troll' maps where you have to hit a circle in the middle of a slider. I find those pattern fun but it isn't possible to get 300 on the slider once you do that despite using the first key for slider and the second for the circle. If this could be changed then it would give mappers new opportunities. It's not like standard is dead but why not give more stuff to play with.

I think this is a great idea, but I would rather have hold notes instead.

If this would get implemented, I think you should get 100s when you only press 1 button on a 2key note, similar to missing a slider end. Like you could get 2x combo from hitting both keys, but you would only get 1x combo when you only hit 1 key and get a 100.

Why a gameobject. You could just stack 2 circles on each other at the same time.
And even then your idea is lacking in descriptiveness. Like what visual indicator is such a note supposed to have etc.etc.

You might just request fixing notelock instead.

SteveRowland wrote:

So would you only be required to do this for K1+K2 and M1 would always count as "correct", because how do you press "M2" on touchscreen or tablet only?
Also would hitting 2 keys on a regular note count as a miss? If so it would interfere with streamed 1/4 notes on like any bpm above 150 even on high OD (some double tabs that should count as a 300 and a 50 would become a double miss).

As a new mode it could work like a mix of mania+osu! and you could even add more than 2 keys, 3k or 4k (or 5k with like spacebar) and aiming with second hand. Don't see how it could work in osu! classic.

You can use keyboard and touchscreen, it's suck a small demographic it shouldn't matter anyway. It will always take pressing 2 alternate keys (z,x or m1,x or m1,m2 or z,m2).

Normal regular notes won't even be changed by this so no, it wouldn't make streams retarded.

isopaharuntikka wrote:

I think this is a great idea, but I would rather have hold notes instead.

If this would get implemented, I think you should get 100s when you only press 1 button on a 2key note, similar to missing a slider end. Like you could get 2x combo from hitting both keys, but you would only get 1x combo when you only hit 1 key and get a 100.

I would like both to be honest. One request per thread though and hold notes can be created that work relatively well already. Personally I think that you shouldn't be able to choose to 1key them, they're intentionally going to be used by the mapper and hence should enhance the map. That's a pretty subjective part of the design though

Endaris wrote:

Why a gameobject. You could just stack 2 circles on each other at the same time.
And even then your idea is lacking in descriptiveness. Like what visual indicator is such a note supposed to have etc.etc.

You might just request fixing notelock instead.

Stacking 2 objects doesn't work well, it's very hard to even see the notes and they notelock afaik. Notelock isn't something that can "just be fixed" because it would alter old scores, so that's not another massive debate that can be held elsewhere.

As for the visual representation, peppy has flyte and co to figure that out. I'm not a designer at all so my idea would be "make the circle flash" or something. If it gets implemented peppy will find his own, better, design.

Tbh I think a score wipe is not more unlikely to happen than getting such an object.

This idea wouldn't even work for some players. Some people play with a touchpad, which I did at one point on my old laptop, and touchpads usually middle click when you press both buttons. Some people play with a touchscreen. How would you right click with a touch screen? And even for those who use a keyboard to tap, ever heard of ghosting? My old laptop wouldn't let me press both Z and X at the same time. Also, part of osu! becoming open source is so osu! could be brought to Android and iOS. Again, how would you right click on a touch screen? This sounds like a perfectly valid idea in theory, but it would never work for the way osu! is heading.

dude, just no.... there are unranked maps that requires you to click when holding a slider, i've tried them, and it's surely not supposed to be ranked

Fayne Aldan wrote:

This idea wouldn't even work for some players. Some people play with a touchpad, which I did at one point on my old laptop, and touchpads usually middle click when you press both buttons. Some people play with a touchscreen. How would you right click with a touch screen? And even for those who use a keyboard to tap, ever heard of ghosting? My old laptop wouldn't let me press both Z and X at the same time. Also, part of osu! becoming open source is so osu! could be brought to Android and iOS. Again, how would you right click on a touch screen? This sounds like a perfectly valid idea in theory, but it would never work for the way osu! is heading.

Touchpad players are not real, who does that? Of course they can't play these kinds of patterns, they can't play any patterns. Touchscreen players can use keyboard and they're the vast minority, why would you hold something from 99.999% of players because 1 in a million use a gimmick input device? Arguments about keyboard ghosting are just absolutely pointless, only certain keys ghost eachother and if it's a problem, change your key binds. Pretty sure all keyboards support 2 simultaneous key presses, just use different binds instead of less-common keys. osu!Droid and osu! on IOS both have separate custom made beatmaps so again, another pointless argument. This idea works better now than ever because NO ONE uses 1 key exclusively anymore, which is why I made the request.

snyviper wrote:

dude, just no.... there are unranked maps that requires you to click when holding a slider, i've tried them, and it's surely not supposed to be ranked

This is a different idea. Even still, why should it be unrankable if it plays well and fits the song? We need to aim to improve the game not stagnate it.

You forget the fact that there are Mouse-only and touchscreen players. This doesn't even sound fun to play with, especially if you are a touchscreen player.

Jesse arent you contradicting yourself? You just said that there are touchscreen players and then said no one uses 1-key play?
What? Also touchscreen players are way more comma than one in a million.

-Jukke- wrote:

Jesse arent you contradicting yourself? You just said that there are touchscreen players and then said no one uses 1-key play?
What? Also touchscreen players are way more comma than one in a million.

Touchpad players are one-in-a-million


Touchscreen players often use keyboard in addition to the touchscreen for things such as streams.

Axon wrote:

You forget the fact that there are Mouse-only and touchscreen players. This doesn't even sound fun to play with, especially if you are a touchscreen player.

hello mice have 2 buttons?

I'm glad bauxe still posts. Saved me some typing.

-Jukke- wrote:

Jesse arent you contradicting yourself? You just said that there are touchscreen players and then said no one uses 1-key play?
What? Also touchscreen players are way more comma than one in a million.

I doubt you can find more than 3 people who primarily use touchscreen without keyboard.

dunno if a new game mechanic would be good at this point in time since everyone is already used to the 3 types of hitobjects we already have

FlamingPony wrote:

dunno if a new game mechanic would be good at this point in time since everyone is already used to the 3 types of hitobjects we already have

If you don't like it just don't play the maps? It's very similar to current hit objects so it's not like it would take players any time at all to adjust to playing maps with them in.

jesse1412 wrote:

FlamingPony wrote:

dunno if a new game mechanic would be good at this point in time since everyone is already used to the 3 types of hitobjects we already have

If you don't like it just don't play the maps? It's very similar to current hit objects so it's not like it would take players any time at all to adjust to playing maps with them in.

I don't know if it would be good because it would ruin the original point of osu! and would be traveling away from what it was inspired from.

they have that in taiko.....

Outline wrote:

jesse1412 wrote:

If you don't like it just don't play the maps? It's very similar to current hit objects so it's not like it would take players any time at all to adjust to playing maps with them in.

I don't know if it would be good because it would ruin the original point of osu! and would be traveling away from what it was inspired from.

Literally who gives a fuck. NO ONE uses 1 key exclusively as already mentioned. I really don't get why this is considered moving away from the original concept when we've already moved so far from it that 1key play isn't possible anymore anyway. If you want to play the original game that osu! is based on (which the vast majority of players probably haven't even heard of let alone played) then go play it. It's been nearly 10 years since osu! was released, it's a vastly improved product compared to EBA/ouendan and it should continue to increase the gap between the original games and their more polished successor.

AnimeGod2205 wrote:

they have that in taiko.....

Yes and they have spinners and sliders and single notes in taiko, let's remove those so that we're not like taiko. Why should the things one game mode have influence the features another gamemode has?

Shit idea. Give some of those stars to me.

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

Shit idea. Give some of those stars to me.

Nah soz captain shitpost.