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Notes that require 2 keys to be pressed to clear.

posted
Total Posts
107
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +292
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Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
no, this isn't taiko, std is about aiming and tapping the correct rhythm, not having to decide which keys to use. while we're at it you could also suggest colored notes that require k1 or k2 (or k3, k4 extra keys for this purpuse only) to be pressed specifically etc. but that just doesn't fit what std is.

(also alternating is a thing, and double/restricted-key note spam would just force us to basically singletap, which I personally dislike and find boring, and I feel it would be unfair to suddenly force people into that.)

for more variety we could introduce hold notes, which are basically zero length sliders, that would be fine I guess.
semantics
12 posts
Joined June 2013
semantics

Drezi wrote:

no, this isn't taiko, std is about aiming and tapping the correct rhythm, not having to decide which keys to use. while we're at it you could also suggest colored notes that require k1 or k2 (or k3, k4 extra keys for this purpuse only) to be pressed specifically etc. but that just doesn't fit what std is.

(also alternating is a thing, and double/restricted-key note spam would just force us to basically singletap, which I personally dislike and find boring, and I feel it would be unfair to suddenly force people into that.)

for more variety we could introduce hold notes, which are basically zero length sliders, that would be fine I guess.
just because it's not the same as it is currently, doesn't mean it's bad.

he suggested doubletap notes only, not some arbitrary shit you made up to make his suggestion look bad.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
it's the same principle... as in restricting which keys you use to tap the rhythm, you can see both these elements in taiko.
semantics
12 posts
Joined June 2013
semantics

Drezi wrote:

it's the same principle... you can see both these elements in taiko...
yes, but that's not what he suggested, is it? he didn't suggest colored notes, or using more keys than the current two you already use, or anything like that.

also, doubletaps in taiko aren't required afaik, you simply get more points for doubletaps on the larger notes than singletaps, and combo remains the same between single and doubletap.

why would doubletaps not aid in tapping the "correct" rhythm moreso than single keys only? doubletapping emphasised beats could be quite fun, assuming it matches the music.
Painketsu
122 posts
Joined November 2012
Painketsu
This would bring a whole new mapping trend with so many possibilities and fun, sign me up.
Yumikoi
75 posts
Joined January 2015
Yumikoi
So would you only be required to do this for K1+K2 and M1 would always count as "correct", because how do you press "M2" on touchscreen or tablet only?
Also would hitting 2 keys on a regular note count as a miss? If so it would interfere with streamed 1/4 notes on like any bpm above 150 even on high OD (some double tabs that should count as a 300 and a 50 would become a double miss).

As a new mode it could work like a mix of mania+osu! and you could even add more than 2 keys, 3k or 4k (or 5k with like spacebar) and aiming with second hand. Don't see how it could work in osu! classic.
Chintam
34 posts
Joined September 2014
Chintam
There's a few 'troll' maps where you have to hit a circle in the middle of a slider. I find those pattern fun but it isn't possible to get 300 on the slider once you do that despite using the first key for slider and the second for the circle. If this could be changed then it would give mappers new opportunities. It's not like standard is dead but why not give more stuff to play with.
Booze
220 posts
Joined July 2014
Booze
I think this is a great idea, but I would rather have hold notes instead.

If this would get implemented, I think you should get 100s when you only press 1 button on a 2key note, similar to missing a slider end. Like you could get 2x combo from hitting both keys, but you would only get 1x combo when you only hit 1 key and get a 100.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Why a gameobject. You could just stack 2 circles on each other at the same time.
And even then your idea is lacking in descriptiveness. Like what visual indicator is such a note supposed to have etc.etc.

You might just request fixing notelock instead.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412

SteveRowland wrote:

So would you only be required to do this for K1+K2 and M1 would always count as "correct", because how do you press "M2" on touchscreen or tablet only?
Also would hitting 2 keys on a regular note count as a miss? If so it would interfere with streamed 1/4 notes on like any bpm above 150 even on high OD (some double tabs that should count as a 300 and a 50 would become a double miss).

As a new mode it could work like a mix of mania+osu! and you could even add more than 2 keys, 3k or 4k (or 5k with like spacebar) and aiming with second hand. Don't see how it could work in osu! classic.
You can use keyboard and touchscreen, it's suck a small demographic it shouldn't matter anyway. It will always take pressing 2 alternate keys (z,x or m1,x or m1,m2 or z,m2).

Normal regular notes won't even be changed by this so no, it wouldn't make streams retarded.

isopaharuntikka wrote:

I think this is a great idea, but I would rather have hold notes instead.

If this would get implemented, I think you should get 100s when you only press 1 button on a 2key note, similar to missing a slider end. Like you could get 2x combo from hitting both keys, but you would only get 1x combo when you only hit 1 key and get a 100.
I would like both to be honest. One request per thread though and hold notes can be created that work relatively well already. Personally I think that you shouldn't be able to choose to 1key them, they're intentionally going to be used by the mapper and hence should enhance the map. That's a pretty subjective part of the design though

Endaris wrote:

Why a gameobject. You could just stack 2 circles on each other at the same time.
And even then your idea is lacking in descriptiveness. Like what visual indicator is such a note supposed to have etc.etc.

You might just request fixing notelock instead.
Stacking 2 objects doesn't work well, it's very hard to even see the notes and they notelock afaik. Notelock isn't something that can "just be fixed" because it would alter old scores, so that's not another massive debate that can be held elsewhere.

As for the visual representation, peppy has flyte and co to figure that out. I'm not a designer at all so my idea would be "make the circle flash" or something. If it gets implemented peppy will find his own, better, design.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Tbh I think a score wipe is not more unlikely to happen than getting such an object.
Xenoblade
89 posts
Joined December 2015
Xenoblade
This idea wouldn't even work for some players. Some people play with a touchpad, which I did at one point on my old laptop, and touchpads usually middle click when you press both buttons. Some people play with a touchscreen. How would you right click with a touch screen? And even for those who use a keyboard to tap, ever heard of ghosting? My old laptop wouldn't let me press both Z and X at the same time. Also, part of osu! becoming open source is so osu! could be brought to Android and iOS. Again, how would you right click on a touch screen? This sounds like a perfectly valid idea in theory, but it would never work for the way osu! is heading.
snyviper
87 posts
Joined April 2015
snyviper
dude, just no.... there are unranked maps that requires you to click when holding a slider, i've tried them, and it's surely not supposed to be ranked
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412

Fayne Aldan wrote:

This idea wouldn't even work for some players. Some people play with a touchpad, which I did at one point on my old laptop, and touchpads usually middle click when you press both buttons. Some people play with a touchscreen. How would you right click with a touch screen? And even for those who use a keyboard to tap, ever heard of ghosting? My old laptop wouldn't let me press both Z and X at the same time. Also, part of osu! becoming open source is so osu! could be brought to Android and iOS. Again, how would you right click on a touch screen? This sounds like a perfectly valid idea in theory, but it would never work for the way osu! is heading.
Touchpad players are not real, who does that? Of course they can't play these kinds of patterns, they can't play any patterns. Touchscreen players can use keyboard and they're the vast minority, why would you hold something from 99.999% of players because 1 in a million use a gimmick input device? Arguments about keyboard ghosting are just absolutely pointless, only certain keys ghost eachother and if it's a problem, change your key binds. Pretty sure all keyboards support 2 simultaneous key presses, just use different binds instead of less-common keys. osu!Droid and osu! on IOS both have separate custom made beatmaps so again, another pointless argument. This idea works better now than ever because NO ONE uses 1 key exclusively anymore, which is why I made the request.

snyviper wrote:

dude, just no.... there are unranked maps that requires you to click when holding a slider, i've tried them, and it's surely not supposed to be ranked
This is a different idea. Even still, why should it be unrankable if it plays well and fits the song? We need to aim to improve the game not stagnate it.
Axon
284 posts
Joined July 2015
Axon
You forget the fact that there are Mouse-only and touchscreen players. This doesn't even sound fun to play with, especially if you are a touchscreen player.
Jukkii
596 posts
Joined October 2015
Jukkii
Jesse arent you contradicting yourself? You just said that there are touchscreen players and then said no one uses 1-key play?
What? Also touchscreen players are way more comma than one in a million.
Bauxe
1,624 posts
Joined August 2012
Bauxe

-Jukke- wrote:

Jesse arent you contradicting yourself? You just said that there are touchscreen players and then said no one uses 1-key play?
What? Also touchscreen players are way more comma than one in a million.
Touchpad players are one-in-a-million


Touchscreen players often use keyboard in addition to the touchscreen for things such as streams.

Axon wrote:

You forget the fact that there are Mouse-only and touchscreen players. This doesn't even sound fun to play with, especially if you are a touchscreen player.
hello mice have 2 buttons?
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412
I'm glad bauxe still posts. Saved me some typing.

-Jukke- wrote:

Jesse arent you contradicting yourself? You just said that there are touchscreen players and then said no one uses 1-key play?
What? Also touchscreen players are way more comma than one in a million.
I doubt you can find more than 3 people who primarily use touchscreen without keyboard.
Flami
26 posts
Joined December 2013
Flami
dunno if a new game mechanic would be good at this point in time since everyone is already used to the 3 types of hitobjects we already have
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412

FlamingPony wrote:

dunno if a new game mechanic would be good at this point in time since everyone is already used to the 3 types of hitobjects we already have
If you don't like it just don't play the maps? It's very similar to current hit objects so it's not like it would take players any time at all to adjust to playing maps with them in.
Outline
77 posts
Joined July 2015
Outline

jesse1412 wrote:

FlamingPony wrote:

dunno if a new game mechanic would be good at this point in time since everyone is already used to the 3 types of hitobjects we already have

If you don't like it just don't play the maps? It's very similar to current hit objects so it's not like it would take players any time at all to adjust to playing maps with them in.


I don't know if it would be good because it would ruin the original point of osu! and would be traveling away from what it was inspired from.
Korrui
75 posts
Joined April 2014
Korrui
they have that in taiko.....
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412

Outline wrote:

jesse1412 wrote:

If you don't like it just don't play the maps? It's very similar to current hit objects so it's not like it would take players any time at all to adjust to playing maps with them in.
I don't know if it would be good because it would ruin the original point of osu! and would be traveling away from what it was inspired from.
Literally who gives a fuck. NO ONE uses 1 key exclusively as already mentioned. I really don't get why this is considered moving away from the original concept when we've already moved so far from it that 1key play isn't possible anymore anyway. If you want to play the original game that osu! is based on (which the vast majority of players probably haven't even heard of let alone played) then go play it. It's been nearly 10 years since osu! was released, it's a vastly improved product compared to EBA/ouendan and it should continue to increase the gap between the original games and their more polished successor.

AnimeGod2205 wrote:

they have that in taiko.....
Yes and they have spinners and sliders and single notes in taiko, let's remove those so that we're not like taiko. Why should the things one game mode have influence the features another gamemode has?
JapanYoshiTheGamer
290 posts
Joined December 2010
JapanYoshiTheGamer
Shit idea. Give some of those stars to me.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

Shit idea. Give some of those stars to me.
Nah soz captain shitpost.
Kyshiro
Elite Mapper
1,642 posts
Joined January 2011
Kyshiro
Honestly sounds like a fun idea, it's funny how everyone sees a new thing and is instantly like ''OH HELL NO YOU AIN'T TOUCHING MY GAME''
Why not improve on what we already have and add more variation to the game.
It's basically that thing that's already available in taiko, right? Pressing 2 keys for a single object
JapanYoshiTheGamer
290 posts
Joined December 2010
JapanYoshiTheGamer

Kyshiro wrote:

Honestly sounds like a fun idea, it's funny how everyone sees a new thing and is instantly like ''OH HELL NO YOU AIN'T TOUCHING MY GAME''
Why not improve on what we already have and add more variation to the game.
It's basically that thing that's already available in taiko, right? Pressing 2 keys for a single object
Streams.


Q.E.D., bitches
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
diraimur
We could have 2b gamemode seperated from STD if people are affraid that it would ruin STD mapping; just check this map for example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/147910
its very fun to play, however it has some bugs, if they were cleaned and we could implement it as whole another gamemode, it would be very fun to play in my opinion.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

Kyshiro wrote:

Honestly sounds like a fun idea, it's funny how everyone sees a new thing and is instantly like ''OH HELL NO YOU AIN'T TOUCHING MY GAME''
Why not improve on what we already have and add more variation to the game.
It's basically that thing that's already available in taiko, right? Pressing 2 keys for a single object
Streams.


Q.E.D., bitches
Do you need mental help?
evora
18 posts
Joined April 2014
evora
Yes! This can do for osu! what the hold-notes do for Hexis, interesting mapping possibilities. Take my stars good sir.
JapanYoshiTheGamer
290 posts
Joined December 2010
JapanYoshiTheGamer

jesse1412 wrote:

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

Streams.


Q.E.D., bitches
Do you need mental help?
You must be the one requiring assistance, since you failed to understand this simple, obvious, and glaring problem.
JapanYoshiTheGamer
290 posts
Joined December 2010
JapanYoshiTheGamer

Outline wrote:

I don't know if it would be good because it would ruin the original point of osu! and would be traveling away from what it was inspired from.
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,844 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
we can already do this by stacking 2 circles on top of each other xd
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

Outline wrote:

I don't know if it would be good because it would ruin the original point of osu! and would be traveling away from what it was inspired from.
I think you belong in offtopic. You clearly haven't read my response to this IN THE OP and in MULTIPLE POSTS. You need reading lessons bud.
JapanYoshiTheGamer
290 posts
Joined December 2010
JapanYoshiTheGamer

jesse1412 wrote:

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

I think you belong in offtopic. You clearly haven't read my response to this IN THE OP and in MULTIPLE POSTS. You need reading lessons bud.
Hold on lemme see the original post and yeah no you didn't write anything about it. Your "clever" little suggestion will break streams.
Zenyatta
227 posts
Joined July 2011
Zenyatta
well, it shoudl be possible to have a note like that but it should be in another mode. maybe a MOD like DT or so where the end notes (katu and geki) if correctly spelled, are like the button you described. only way i could imagine.
Reha
344 posts
Joined February 2015
Reha
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Last edited by Reha , edited 1 time in total.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412

JapanYoshiTheGamer wrote:

jesse1412 wrote:

I think you belong in offtopic. You clearly haven't read my response to this IN THE OP and in MULTIPLE POSTS. You need reading lessons bud.
Hold on lemme see the original post and yeah no you didn't write anything about it. Your "clever" little suggestion will break streams.
Let's see...

jesse1412 wrote:

As simple as the title suggests. A clearly defined note that requires 2 keys to be pressed simultaneously in order to hit. This wouldn't have been a real suggestion in the past because (if I recall correctly) peppy believed that osu! should be playable with 1key, but 1key play isn't even a gimmicky genre anymore, it's 100% dead.

jesse1412 wrote:

I'm saying 1key exclusive gameplay is dead, not that standard is dead. No one tries to play the game with only 1key anymore, that was an old objective of design by peppy that is now obsolete. Without using a second key, osu! is basically unplayable. These double notes would be placed by the mapper, they wouldn't be random convoluted shit. I have experimented with the use of this concept using 1/16 doubles and it is definitely a playable and interesting concept.

-Jukke- wrote:

Just no.
Also 1key playing isnt dead, alot of people singletap literally everything 140bpm and under (1/4ths) so it isnt dead. And some even singletap bpms higher than that
1key EXCLUSIVE play is dead. No one plays relevant maps with only 1key. No one refuses to alternate streams, 2key is essential and integral to the game now, that's why this idea is more valid than in the past (when peppy believed maps should be possible with one key).
You either have NO fucking clue about the original intentions of osu! or you're just acting braindead for some reason (possibly because you are but I'm an optimist). There is no way these would break streams at all, if a mapper uses these notes to create a 1/4 stream, good for them, it's most probably unplayable and no one will enjoy their map.


CrsTramorio wrote:

well, it shoudl be possible to have a note like that but it should be in another mode. maybe a MOD like DT or so where the end notes (katu and geki) if correctly spelled, are like the button you described. only way i could imagine.
Again, just don't use the maps that use these notes. Not sure why it's so hard. Automating it would be completely unplayable because auto-generation is generally shitty and the entire point is to use it to emphasize beats more intensely.

-Crying Heaven- wrote:

can someone explain me this?
Essentially it's a request to allow mappers to place a new kind of "note" that you would miss unless you pressed both z AND x at the same time.
Lacrimosa
1,898 posts
Joined December 2013
Lacrimosa
I don't see this ever get implemented in osu!standard mode. It would completely change a mode that has been untouched from the very beginning.

Could this get implemented in a new game mode? Perhaps.

Would they create a new game mode just for this? I highly doubt it.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
Topic Starter
jesse1412

Nikosbks wrote:

I don't see this ever get implemented in osu!standard mode. It would completely change a mode that has been untouched from the very beginning.

Could this get implemented in a new game mode? Perhaps.

Would they create a new game mode just for this? I highly doubt it.
No it wouldn't. Why are people so sure it will overthrow everything we've known in osu!. It would play pretty much identical to how standard plays now and it probably wouldn't be commonly used for a long time. Stop being so afraid of OPTIONAL new features.
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