sure.that's right.fixF1r3tar wrote:
02:36:724 (5) - You should nudge this to the left. Looks kind of weird.
01:46:024 (13) -
01:45:124 (4,1) -
04:13:624 (1,2,1) -
04:37:774 (11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4) -
04:28:924 (1,2,1,2,3) -
some revise
forum
DragonForce - Extraction Zone
posted
Total Posts
139
Topic Starter
01:46:024 (13) -
01:45:124 (4,1) -
04:13:624 (1,2,1) -
04:37:774 (11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4) -
04:28:924 (1,2,1,2,3) -
some revise
Humhh.. I'm just curious about some things. Firstly I think consistency is quite important and this map is kinda consistent but there's one major thing that I'm sort of not quite getting.
- 00:46:024 - The kiai here has the same vocals going "EXTRACTION ZOOONE" a lot yea? But the rhythm and everything is completely different than what you did for 01:36:874 - namely the streams like 01:36:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - don't appear in the first kiai at 00:46:024 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2) - there's a lot of rhythm variation here. (There's also not two snares on 00:47:824 (1,2) - there's just one so maybe remove the hitsound for the other?) I think this breaks consistency quite a lot when you introduce a completely different way of mapping the second kiai than the first then do it again for the last kiai 04:29:524 (3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2) - namely the increasing spacing stream thing. There's a lot of variation in rhythm where the song stayed the same. I get that you want to keep it interesting but I can assure you varying the way you place patterns and whatnot should avoid boring the player anyways.
Umh, yeah. I just think that the consistency could be improved (regardless of rhythm it's more the concept of the accelerating streams that just doesn't really show itself until second kiai) perhaps if you did the decreasing/increasing spacing earlier on for 00:45:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - or similar where you do something like this for the first stream even that would already be an improvement imo. (also I think 00:45:874 (11) - should have an NC on it right?) 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1) - Something like this maybe? You can definitely do it with 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and so on.
- 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - As fieryrage (albeit somewhat fiercely) mentioned, this concept is quite unexpected and looks very inconsistent when it's not done for 03:19:324 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - where the sounds are quite similar. There are also places earlier in the map where you can introduce this so it's not super sudden like for example stacking 00:48:274 (2,1) - ? This might be a stretch but you can probably use additive hitsounding to introduce this as early as 00:04:624 (2,1) - if you do this (note I silenced the slidertail) and add a clap maybe on the 3 instead. Idk it's just an idea. At least if you introduce it really early you can avoid unfair breaks later cuz it's already been established as a present concept in the map.
- 00:46:024 - The kiai here has the same vocals going "EXTRACTION ZOOONE" a lot yea? But the rhythm and everything is completely different than what you did for 01:36:874 - namely the streams like 01:36:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - don't appear in the first kiai at 00:46:024 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2) - there's a lot of rhythm variation here. (There's also not two snares on 00:47:824 (1,2) - there's just one so maybe remove the hitsound for the other?) I think this breaks consistency quite a lot when you introduce a completely different way of mapping the second kiai than the first then do it again for the last kiai 04:29:524 (3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2) - namely the increasing spacing stream thing. There's a lot of variation in rhythm where the song stayed the same. I get that you want to keep it interesting but I can assure you varying the way you place patterns and whatnot should avoid boring the player anyways.
Umh, yeah. I just think that the consistency could be improved (regardless of rhythm it's more the concept of the accelerating streams that just doesn't really show itself until second kiai) perhaps if you did the decreasing/increasing spacing earlier on for 00:45:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - or similar where you do something like this for the first stream even that would already be an improvement imo. (also I think 00:45:874 (11) - should have an NC on it right?) 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1) - Something like this maybe? You can definitely do it with 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and so on.
- 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - As fieryrage (albeit somewhat fiercely) mentioned, this concept is quite unexpected and looks very inconsistent when it's not done for 03:19:324 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - where the sounds are quite similar. There are also places earlier in the map where you can introduce this so it's not super sudden like for example stacking 00:48:274 (2,1) - ? This might be a stretch but you can probably use additive hitsounding to introduce this as early as 00:04:624 (2,1) - if you do this (note I silenced the slidertail) and add a clap maybe on the 3 instead. Idk it's just an idea. At least if you introduce it really early you can avoid unfair breaks later cuz it's already been established as a present concept in the map.
My post isn't kudos worry. Besides, I already got kudos from modding it.
bn, please deny it
bn, please deny it
tl;dr at bottom
hi! the hitsounds are cool, i like that you use hi-hats to emphasize when the singer sings "zone" (and other parts of the vocals). stream spacing is mapped to the vocals too which i enjoy a lot
the hi-hats are a little loud though, i suggest that you lower the volume a little bit. or you can make it so the hi hats fade out with every "zone" since the singer's "zone" gets softer toward the end. right now the hi hats start at 90% volume, maybe you could diminish the volume so that it starts at 80% and slowly goes down to 50%? or something along those lines. ZOOONnnee. also, i suggest that you avoid using too many hi-hats in other places, so that the wall of hi-hats can be reserved for vocals.
i do think that your general aesthetics could use some polishing. individually each note might not seem to matter that much, but many slightly misplaced notes and roughly-shaped streams will affect the players/mapper's overall sense of the map, which is actually very important.
some examples: 01:51:874 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - this whole stream, shape-wise, isn't very pretty. the right side bulges out a little, and the top side is flat. if it looked smoother and rounder, it'd look a lot nicer. 00:54:574 (5,6,7,8,9) - this stream is flat on the left, when i think it'd look a lot nicer when round.
another example is 01:11:074 (2) - this, and 04:52:474 (2) - . sliders like this will look VERY messy if not done exactly right. the 1st and 3rd segments of the slider should be equal in length, and parallel, or it will appear sloppy. i suggest you create one perfect version and copy paste that through the rest of the map, and rotate/flip when needed.
regarding consistency, HW is certainly one of the most consistent mappers out there. with each of her maps she generally picks a couple of interesting patterns (deconstruction star), or one overarching aesthetic choice (tsubaki) and sticks with that for her entire map. every one of her maps is incredibly internally consistent. one pattern to reflect one part of the song. structurally speaking it's very minimalist (like handsome, except his maps are minimalist in structure AND in pattern). HW will have some slight variations in her patterns throughout her map, but they aren't very major and they're still governed by an overall consistency. mapping is a pretty flexible artform (all artforms are), but the one rule that should be followed 99% of the time is consistency. the other 1% of the time is for very weird songs, which extraction zone is not, and for very experimental mapping that i've never seen anyone do yet.
tl;dr
hitsounding is cool in that they accentuate vocals, but lower the volume and maybe make the "zoone" hitsounds fade out slowly instead of ending abruptly. and maybe make it so that you don't use hi-hats often except when there are vocals to accentuate
first thing to do is to polish up your aesthetics. aesthetics plays a large part in forming a player's impression of the "identity" of the map, which is the #1 most important thing. also, the #1 strongest tool in forming identity is to keep consistency.
anyways those are just my opinions, good luck!
hi! the hitsounds are cool, i like that you use hi-hats to emphasize when the singer sings "zone" (and other parts of the vocals). stream spacing is mapped to the vocals too which i enjoy a lot
the hi-hats are a little loud though, i suggest that you lower the volume a little bit. or you can make it so the hi hats fade out with every "zone" since the singer's "zone" gets softer toward the end. right now the hi hats start at 90% volume, maybe you could diminish the volume so that it starts at 80% and slowly goes down to 50%? or something along those lines. ZOOONnnee. also, i suggest that you avoid using too many hi-hats in other places, so that the wall of hi-hats can be reserved for vocals.
i do think that your general aesthetics could use some polishing. individually each note might not seem to matter that much, but many slightly misplaced notes and roughly-shaped streams will affect the players/mapper's overall sense of the map, which is actually very important.
some examples: 01:51:874 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - this whole stream, shape-wise, isn't very pretty. the right side bulges out a little, and the top side is flat. if it looked smoother and rounder, it'd look a lot nicer. 00:54:574 (5,6,7,8,9) - this stream is flat on the left, when i think it'd look a lot nicer when round.
another example is 01:11:074 (2) - this, and 04:52:474 (2) - . sliders like this will look VERY messy if not done exactly right. the 1st and 3rd segments of the slider should be equal in length, and parallel, or it will appear sloppy. i suggest you create one perfect version and copy paste that through the rest of the map, and rotate/flip when needed.
regarding consistency, HW is certainly one of the most consistent mappers out there. with each of her maps she generally picks a couple of interesting patterns (deconstruction star), or one overarching aesthetic choice (tsubaki) and sticks with that for her entire map. every one of her maps is incredibly internally consistent. one pattern to reflect one part of the song. structurally speaking it's very minimalist (like handsome, except his maps are minimalist in structure AND in pattern). HW will have some slight variations in her patterns throughout her map, but they aren't very major and they're still governed by an overall consistency. mapping is a pretty flexible artform (all artforms are), but the one rule that should be followed 99% of the time is consistency. the other 1% of the time is for very weird songs, which extraction zone is not, and for very experimental mapping that i've never seen anyone do yet.
tl;dr
hitsounding is cool in that they accentuate vocals, but lower the volume and maybe make the "zoone" hitsounds fade out slowly instead of ending abruptly. and maybe make it so that you don't use hi-hats often except when there are vocals to accentuate
first thing to do is to polish up your aesthetics. aesthetics plays a large part in forming a player's impression of the "identity" of the map, which is the #1 most important thing. also, the #1 strongest tool in forming identity is to keep consistency.
anyways those are just my opinions, good luck!
Another quick suggestion. 01:56:374 (1) seems unnecessarily long. You could end it at 02:03:124 and start a spinner on the white tick.
Topic Starter
I have unified your opinion. At least for now, I think it has no other problemsMir wrote:
Humhh.. I'm just curious about some things. Firstly I think consistency is quite important and this map is kinda consistent but there's one major thing that I'm sort of not quite getting.
- 00:46:024 - The kiai here has the same vocals going "EXTRACTION ZOOONE" a lot yea? But the rhythm and everything is completely different than what you did for 01:36:874 - namely the streams like 01:36:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - don't appear in the first kiai at 00:46:024 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2) - there's a lot of rhythm variation here. (There's also not two snares on 00:47:824 (1,2) - there's just one so maybe remove the hitsound for the other?) I think this breaks consistency quite a lot when you introduce a completely different way of mapping the second kiai than the first then do it again for the last kiai 04:29:524 (3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2) - namely the increasing spacing stream thing. There's a lot of variation in rhythm where the song stayed the same. I get that you want to keep it interesting but I can assure you varying the way you place patterns and whatnot should avoid boring the player anyways.
00:45:874 (11,12,1) - hummm...It was a mistake. I didn't find it before .the subtle changes are in NC and 0.1 in DS .fixIn fact, there are three different mapping changes. The other section is 01:36:124 (1) - 01:56:224 (1) - .04:29:674 (1) - There are some big changes, but there should be no problem now
Umh, yeah. I just think that the consistency could be improved (regardless of rhythm it's more the concept of the accelerating streams that just doesn't really show itself until second kiai) perhaps if you did the decreasing/increasing spacing earlier on for 00:45:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - or similar where you do something like this for the first stream even that would already be an improvement imo. (also I think 00:45:874 (11) - should have an NC on it right?) 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1) - Something like this maybe? You can definitely do it with 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and so on.
- 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - As fieryrage (albeit somewhat fiercely) mentioned, this concept is quite unexpected and looks very inconsistent when it's not done for 03:19:324 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - where the sounds are quite similar. There are also places earlier in the map where you can introduce this so it's not super sudden like for example stacking 00:48:274 (2,1) - ? This might be a stretch but you can probably use additive hitsounding to introduce this as early as 00:04:624 (2,1) - if you do this (note I silenced the slidertail) and add a clap maybe on the 3 instead. Idk it's just an idea. At least if you introduce it really early you can avoid unfair breaks later cuz it's already been established as a present concept in the map.
Topic Starter
thx fod modmelloe wrote:
tl;dr at bottom
hi! the hitsounds are cool, i like that you use hi-hats to emphasize when the singer sings "zone" (and other parts of the vocals). stream spacing is mapped to the vocals too which i enjoy a lot
the hi-hats are a little loud though, i suggest that you lower the volume a little bit. or you can make it so the hi hats fade out with every "zone" since the singer's "zone" gets softer toward the end. right now the hi hats start at 90% volume, maybe you could diminish the volume so that it starts at 80% and slowly goes down to 50%? or something along those lines. ZOOONnnee. also, i suggest that you avoid using too many hi-hats in other places, so that the wall of hi-hats can be reserved for vocals.
hummm..fix
i do think that your general aesthetics could use some polishing. individually each note might not seem to matter that much, but many slightly misplaced notes and roughly-shaped streams will affect the players/mapper's overall sense of the map, which is actually very important.
some examples: 01:51:874 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - this whole stream, shape-wise, isn't very pretty. the right side bulges out a little, and the top side is flat. if it looked smoother and rounder, it'd look a lot nicer. 00:54:574 (5,6,7,8,9) - this stream is flat on the left, when i think it'd look a lot nicer when round.
another example is 01:11:074 (2) - this, and 04:52:474 (2) - . sliders like this will look VERY messy if not done exactly right. the 1st and 3rd segments of the slider should be equal in length, and parallel, or it will appear sloppy. i suggest you create one perfect version and copy paste that through the rest of the map, and rotate/flip when needed.
same to 01:51:874 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - 00:54:574 (5,6,7,8,9) -I really don't want to change these. Because everyone has different tastes. It's not really necessary. I tried to compromise .some fix
regarding consistency, HW is certainly one of the most consistent mappers out there. with each of her maps she generally picks a couple of interesting patterns (deconstruction star), or one overarching aesthetic choice (tsubaki) and sticks with that for her entire map. every one of her maps is incredibly internally consistent. one pattern to reflect one part of the song. structurally speaking it's very minimalist (like handsome, except his maps are minimalist in structure AND in pattern). HW will have some slight variations in her patterns throughout her map, but they aren't very major and they're still governed by an overall consistency. mapping is a pretty flexible artform (all artforms are), but the one rule that should be followed 99% of the time is consistency. the other 1% of the time is for very weird songs, which extraction zone is not, and for very experimental mapping that i've never seen anyone do yet.
tl;dr
hitsounding is cool in that they accentuate vocals, but lower the volume and maybe make the "zoone" hitsounds fade out slowly instead of ending abruptly. and maybe make it so that you don't use hi-hats often except when there are vocals to accentuate
first thing to do is to polish up your aesthetics. aesthetics plays a large part in forming a player's impression of the "identity" of the map, which is the #1 most important thing. also, the #1 strongest tool in forming identity is to keep consistency.
anyways those are just my opinions, good luck!
fixF1r3tar wrote:
Another quick suggestion. 01:56:374 (1) seems unnecessarily long. You could end it at 02:03:124 and start a spinner on the white tick.
SPOILER
20:05 09kami: hi mir T T
20:05 09kami: can u make a quick check? I made a lot of things consistent
20:05 *09kami is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1007522 DragonForce - Extraction Zone]
20:05 Mir: hi hii
20:05 Mir: sure lets see
20:06 09kami: At least there are not so many inconsistencies now...
20:06 Mir: well aside from the fact that each kiai is mapped somehow differently i suppose
20:08 Mir: hmm so what exactly did you change
20:08 09kami: emmm..The last Kiai
20:09 Mir: it looks quite similar as the last time i saw it o.o
20:10 09kami: and "zone" consistency
20:10 09kami: Some details
20:10 Mir: 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - like here?
20:11 09kami: yup
20:11 Mir: hmm i see, but the difference is very small compared to 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) -
20:12 Mir: also to keep the ncing consistent probably remove 00:50:224 (1) - ?
20:13 Mir: o nvm
20:14 09kami: emmm..fix?
20:14 Mir: you're asking me? xD
20:15 Mir: i suppose
20:15 Mir: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - these too kinda hmm
20:15 Mir: you can probably instead do a stream?
20:15 09kami: 00:47:449 (1) - Actually, there's a NC I forgot
20:15 Mir: 01:41:674 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4) - cuz it's kinda like something similar here
20:16 Mir: 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and you can increase/decrease spacing like here
20:17 09kami: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - emmm...I think there no problem..
20:18 09kami: u mean adjusting the position?
20:18 Mir: you didnt use 1/4 sliders like this elsewhere though, so why here?
20:18 Mir: i mean just having them 1/4 sliders instead of streams
20:19 09kami: 00:46:624 (5,6,1) - like this?
20:19 Mir: mm yeah im confused why you use 1/4 sliders here
20:19 Mir: cuz in the song i dont really hear a difference from the second and last kiais
20:20 09kami: 00:46:624 - Because the voice disappeared
20:20 09kami: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) -
20:20 09kami: same
20:20 Mir: 01:43:324 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - here too tho
20:21 Mir: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - and here
20:21 Mir: but there you're still using streams o.o
20:21 09kami: This is because of the different kiai
20:22 09kami: In some places I have adopted different mapping methods
20:22 09kami: 01:39:124 (1,2,3,4,5) - like this
20:22 09kami: 00:48:124 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) -
20:22 09kami: 04:31:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) -
20:23 Mir: hmm but the song doesn't change so why are you changing the map?
20:23 09kami: In fact, the difference between the three sections is that they retain the same mapping method only in their own section
20:24 09kami: It's the same as Collab
20:24 Mir: hmm but it isn't a collab, right?
20:25 09kami: It's just me play three characters
20:25 Mir: hmm
20:26 *09kami is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1321810 Meramipop - Nokosareta Namae -Toori Kazoe Uta-]
20:26 09kami: like this
20:26 Mir: mm but the song changes so i can understand the differences
20:26 09kami: all the blue lines are mapped differently
20:26 Mir: here the song really just repeats itself 3 times but the map changes every time
20:26 09kami: But there are some places that are the same
20:27 09kami: It's just that I made him look different
20:27 Mir: hmmmmmm
20:28 Mir: i cant say i agree, but sergio and uhh.. the other bn seem to think it's fine so be it
20:29 Mir: 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - this remains questionable
20:29 Mir: imo
20:29 09kami: emmmAt least let it experiment on this map
20:31 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf3aY/44ebdeae93.png
20:31 09kami: Change to this?
20:31 Mir: would work, yea
20:32 09kami: To be honest. I want to finish this map as soon as possible. August 30th I won't have time. For some reason, I may not be in touch with the Internet for a long time
20:33 Mir: i see, a race against time then
20:33 Mir: well let me look at the streams since afaik those were like the biggest problems
20:33 09kami: So I'm going to compromise as much as I can
20:34 09kami: Hummm.. I've maintained consistency between the three sections
20:34 09kami: There is at least a certain amount of persuasion
20:37 09kami: 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - emmmm..Decline?
20:38 Mir: well no no
20:38 Mir: one second
20:38 09kami: decrease e
20:38 Mir: regarding one thing on the first kiai
20:38 Mir: 00:47:674 - these 1/4 sliders should have the same combo as 00:46:624 - right?
20:39 Mir: 00:46:624 - probably nc here i think
20:39 09kami: fix
20:40 Mir: 01:01:474 (15,16,1) - hmm so in the first kiai you used a really sharp bend here
20:40 Mir: 01:02:749 (16,1,2) - but nothing here or 01:03:949 (16,1,2) - etc
20:40 Mir: it's a lot harder to change direction that harshly than to follow an increase in spacing i think
20:41 Mir: and those other sounds definitely are at least equal if not stronger than where you decided to change the direction
20:42 09kami: fix
20:42 Mir: hmm how did you fix it?
20:44 09kami: Change that bend
20:45 09kami: Just a flow line
20:45 Mir: so something like this? http://i.imgur.com/c10QbbW.png
20:47 09kami: yup
20:47 Mir: mm okay
20:48 Mir: 00:08:674 (15,16,1,2) - you have something similar here
20:48 Mir: 00:11:149 (16,1,2) - 00:12:349 (16,1,2) - are okay
20:48 Mir: 00:06:349 (16,1,2) - but here nothing?
20:48 Mir: 00:07:549 (16,1,2) - here nothing too x.x
20:48 Mir: looks like really inconsistent since they're the same sounds strength
20:50 09kami: hummmm I don't think there's any need to change it here .mabey
20:50 09kami: There is a buffer process here
20:50 09kami: 00:06:049 (12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) -
20:50 09kami: 00:07:324 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
20:51 09kami: The angle here is getting sharper and sharper
20:51 Mir: ahh i see
20:52 09kami: If you feel the need, I can unify the first two into an acute angle
20:52 Mir: on the grounds of consistency that would work, but keeping to the "buffer process" that may not work
20:54 Mir: what about
20:54 Mir: http://i.imgur.com/IaMLQeY.png
20:54 Mir: so there's no massive direction change but there's still emphasis since you have to move suddenly for that note
20:54 09kami: hummm So, I'll unify the first paragraph?
20:55 09kami: 00:10:024 (1) - From here. You can think of the second paragraph
20:55 Mir: if you, as you say, unify the first paragraph, do you mean make it the same-ish relating to the second paragraph?
20:56 09kami: yup
20:56 Mir: then you can do so
20:57 09kami: http://i.imgur.com/IaMLQeY.png like this/
20:57 09kami: ?
20:57 Mir: that's a possibility
20:57 Mir: it's not as consistent but it promotes emphasis
20:58 Mir: so it's not like there's not emphasis consistency anymore but there's still direction inconsistency
20:58 09kami: emmm.. if I change all the key places to an acute angle?
20:59 Mir: if you did that it'd be entirely consistent
20:59 09kami: Let me try.
21:05 09kami: I updated. u can have look
21:05 Mir: yeah that looks a lot better
21:06 09kami:
21:06 09kami: Is there anywhere else?
21:08 Mir: mm not necessarily but im kinda questioning 01:00:424 - since this whole stream doesn't have any direction changes or emphasis on key points like 01:01:474 (15,16,1) - etc
21:08 Mir: it's kinda just one really long stream with a spacing increase in the middle
21:10 09kami: mabey
21:10 09kami: like 00:48:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) -
21:10 09kami: this
21:11 Mir: mhm that's actually true as well for this one
21:11 Mir: for the kiai stream it's actually fairly easy to aim that since there's no direction changes
21:11 Mir: 00:07:549 (16,1,2) - 00:11:149 (16,1,2) - but these earlier in the map present a harsher changes
21:11 Mir: which is in a non-kiai section too
21:12 09kami: But some voices are different
21:14 Mir: hmm that is true but that doesn't change the fact that this stream lacks a lot of emphasis that previous and later stream has
21:14 Mir: have*
21:14 09kami: But in other Kiai sections, I emphasize these places
21:14 09kami: These three kiai paragraphs are actually in a clear order of difficulty. This is the increasing difficulty
21:16 Mir: hmm while i can understand you want to have an increasing difficulty
21:16 Mir: there should be a similarity in the concepts used to achieve that difficulty increase
21:16 Mir: for example not using very harsh changes in the first kiai, using moderately harsh changes for second kiai, and doing stuff like 01:55:399 (6,7,8,1,2) - for the third kiai for example
21:16 Mir: a i said for example twice ><
21:17 09kami: And there are some places
21:17 09kami: They have some changes in the pitch, which is also an emphasis
21:17 09kami: spacing
21:17 Mir: mm true but spacing is a lot less difficult to adjust to compared to a straight-up direction change, no?
21:19 09kami: emmm...In fact, this change is huge, because it's a long stream
21:19 09kami: This may be a slight change for mapper, but for players, it's a very sudden acceleration. It's a difficult part
21:20 09kami: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3) - They're not like here. There's a process
21:25 Mir: hmm having played it
21:25 Mir: albeit with relax just now
21:25 Mir: i feel like the spacing increases were quite easy to adjust to
21:26 Mir: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3) - these were quite easy but were emphasis in their own right so i can agree with these
21:27 Mir: but the emphasis on 01:00:124 - increases so slightly
21:27 Mir: that it doesn't have enough contrast to compensate over the long run imho
21:28 09kami: hummm
21:29 09kami: So should change their angle?
21:29 Mir: either that or make the spacing difference way more noticeable
21:30 Mir: 04:46:249 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - like something similar to this
21:30 Mir: which i have my own issues with but the general idea is this kinda of contrast would make sense
21:35 09kami: add some ds
21:36 Mir: hmm can you send .osu or update so i can see? or send screenshot xD
21:36 09kami: I'm uploading it, but it's stopped
21:37 Mir: 11%?
21:37 09kami: emmmm Wait
21:37 09kami: no .Just suddenly broke the link
21:38 Mir: oo
21:38 09kami: https://puu.sh/xf66g/47b8e0b701.osu
21:38 09kami: well
21:38 09kami: Copy it directly. I'll update it later
21:39 Mir: 01:03:724 (1,2,3,4) - hmm can you lower this more?
21:40 09kami: hummm sure
21:40 Mir: probably 0.8 would work
21:41 Mir: 01:02:374 (11,12,13,14,15,16) - and probably you can lower this too so that "zoooone" at 01:02:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - gets way more emphasis
21:42 09kami: 01:03:724 (1,2,3,4) - http://puu.sh/xf6fQ/90d5332369.png
21:42 09kami: like this?
21:42 Mir: ooo yeah that looks good
21:43 09kami: 01:00:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - 01:01:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - I want to keep this increase
21:44 Mir: hmm okay
21:44 09kami: 01:02:824 (1,2,3,4) - These increases are already obvious,.1.4X
21:44 Mir: yeah, true
21:44 09kami: will it be too hard? Because these appear in the first paragraph of Kiai
21:45 Mir: ideally a map should have consistent difficulty so the player knows what they're getting into as soon as the map starts imo
21:45 Mir: increasing the difficulty over time does work and is a viable idea but if you make it too easy at the start and the player just fails later it's kinda
21:45 09kami: ok
21:45 Mir: so introducing such emphasis earlier is fine
21:46 Mir: uh so something else i noticed
21:46 Mir: 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - these are mapped to the guitar right? 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - these seem kinda out of place considering the guitar changes quite a bit
21:47 09kami: yup
21:48 09kami: Here's an obvious switch. I think it's between the vocals and the guitar
21:49 09kami: 01:27:424 (1,2,3,1,2) - vocals
21:49 09kami: 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - guitar
21:49 09kami: 01:29:824 (1,2,3,1,2) - 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - same
21:50 Mir: hmm i see
21:50 Mir: but the "issue" i have with this is that 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - here the guitar is not the same as it was for 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
21:50 Mir: emphasis is put on 01:31:474 (4) - and 01:31:774 (6,7) -
21:50 Mir: 01:31:174 (2) - as well to some extent
21:51 Mir: but having them all in the same pattern makes it look and play like01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - which is completely different with the guitar cuz it's all normal and constant
21:53 09kami: 01:31:474 (4,5,6,7,8) - Emmmm... u mean to make a change?
21:53 Mir: yup, some kind of indication that the guitar isn't quite the same as it was the first time
21:55 09kami: hummmm if
21:55 09kami: delete 01:31:174 (2,4,6,8) -
21:57 Mir: what would you do after deleting it? o.o
21:57 09kami: White line slider.Increase their length
21:58 09kami: Deliberately ignore some rhythms. Express them in different ways
21:58 Mir: 01:31:474 - 01:31:774 - i wonder about ignoring these though, since there are noticable spikes in the guitar here
21:59 09kami: emmmm....or delete white line slider
22:00 Mir: that would work
22:00 Mir: 01:31:924 - you have a 1/4 stream starting here with drums though, do you want to ignore that too?
22:01 09kami: ok.I give up the idea
22:02 Mir: hmmmm
22:03 Mir: you can do a sliderend stream
22:03 Mir: http://i.imgur.com/rkDcEIt.png probably
22:06 09kami: fix
22:06 Mir: alright cool
22:08 Mir: hmm probably lowering 01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or increasing01:53:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - might give some nice contrast
22:08 Mir: spacing-wise
22:09 09kami: but.01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - It has been lowered
22:09 09kami: Aren't they obvious enough?
22:10 Mir: 01:02:224 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - considering you didn't really do that here
22:10 Mir: maybe it's better to actually not decrease it
22:10 Mir: and instead leave it constant, idk
22:11 09kami: Hummm...Then I'll lower it some more
22:12 Mir: which one are you lowering? first kiai or second kiai? x.x
22:13 09kami: 01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
22:13 09kami: this
22:13 Mir: ah okay
22:14 09kami: 01:02:224 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - emmm
22:14 09kami: What does this mean here?
22:14 Mir: i was pointing out that you didn't lower that for the same reasons as you lowered it for the second kiai
22:15 09kami: oo
22:15 Mir: it might be nice to do it in the first kiai too
22:18 Mir: now here's something interesting, 03:01:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - is very possibly 1/3 so why didn't you map it as 1/3 o.o
22:21 09kami: In some similar places, if you follow the guitar, can't map
22:21 09kami: In fact, this is instead to maintain a consistency with the player, and the drums have enough rhythm to support 1/4
22:22 09kami: 1/3 and 1/4 stream frequent switching. Will mislead the player
22:23 09kami: 03:21:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1) -
22:23 09kami: like this
22:23 Mir: hmm having tried it out i came up with http://i.imgur.com/CyRDC3H.png
22:24 09kami: 03:21:124 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5) -
22:24 Mir: or something
22:25 09kami: hummmm i try
22:30 09kami: https://puu.sh/xf8ky/824bfb52e7.png
22:30 09kami: like this?
22:31 Mir: hmm
22:32 Mir: how about making 03:02:224 - a 2/3 slider
22:32 Mir: since there's nothing on 03:02:324 - and 03:02:424 - lands after a reverse so it kinda loses emphasis
22:34 09kami: fix
22:35 Mir: 03:10:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - looking at this hmm you used quite a few direction changes but
22:35 Mir: 03:11:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - as a climactic stream this doesn't use any
22:35 Mir: kinda weird not emphasizing the last strong stream as much as the previous one imo
22:40 09kami: I really don't want to change this place .But I'm not quite sure how to explain the process .Let me see how to express it
22:40 Mir: okay
22:42 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf8Ol/75d4dfdb30.jpg
22:42 09kami: This paragraph is like a vase. Although the front is very winding, you only need to finish flow to finish it
22:42 Mir: hmm
22:43 09kami: But there's something different, because it's a natural feeling. You can think it's just because I think he's changed in 03:11:824 (5)
22:43 Mir: in keeping with that idea
22:43 Mir: how about instead of changing direction, increase the spacing?
22:44 09kami: If all the places are trimmed together, I lose a special feeling. I know how to express it
22:45 Mir: something like this probably http://i.imgur.com/Cu1OilN.png
22:45 Mir: you can probably make it look nicer than me though x.x
22:45 Mir: so with the spacing increase there's still emphasis while still keeping the direction
22:46 09kami: But it does not increase the spacing to the feeling
22:46 09kami: So I used 03:11:824 (5) - to distinguish them
22:47 Mir: hmmm
22:47 09kami: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
22:47 09kami: add this?
22:47 Mir: mhm, add spacing to that
22:47 Mir: instead of changing how it flows at all
22:48 09kami: but 03:11:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - this
22:48 09kami: 1.0
22:48 09kami: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4) - this
22:48 09kami: 1.2
22:48 Mir: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4) - 1.2 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - 1.4
22:48 Mir: possibly
22:49 09kami: emmm
22:49 09kami: 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - 1.3Isn't it high enough?
22:50 Mir: contrast is lacking there imo
22:50 09kami: ok i do
22:51 09kami: done
22:51 Mir: 03:53:524 (1,2,1) - eeeeee
22:52 Mir: since you removed the other one, having this one would be too unexpected imo
22:53 09kami: hummm....Here's kencho's advice
22:53 09kami: 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - and
22:53 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf9mW/3ae0060113.png
22:53 Mir: that could work too, it seems like the spacing increase is more obvious that way as well
22:54 Mir: but we both kind had the same idea there so yeah xD
22:54 09kami: 03:53:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - Here, if follow the guitar, can't map
22:55 09kami: Because some are not at fixed rhythm.
22:55 09kami: on
22:57 Mir: nono im not saying follow the guitar
22:57 Mir: im saying 03:53:749 (2,1) - this stack is unexpected
22:59 Mir: how about trying http://i.imgur.com/kgDqeOJ.png
22:59 Mir: 03:55:024 (1,2) - so it's similar to this
23:03 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf9RS/be7cf68bb1.png
23:03 Mir: yeah that works too lol
23:05 Mir: 04:47:824 (5,6,7,8) - for this one i find it kind of strange that the switch in guitar gets the lowest spacing o.o
23:05 Mir: i feel like it should all be the same spacing
23:07 09kami: the end is in this place
23:08 09kami: 04:47:524 (1) -
23:08 09kami: 04:47:524 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - It's a steady process
23:09 Mir: mm i see but 04:47:824 (5) - this note in particular stands out a lot but there isn't much emphasis on it
23:10 09kami: hummm..So that's where it begins?
23:10 Mir: at least my interpretation of it is
23:11 Mir: 04:47:524 (1,2,3,4) - it declines here
23:11 Mir: and starts up here 04:47:824 (5,6,7,8,1) -
23:11 Mir: so essentially swapping where you decrease the spacing with where you increase it would make more sense to me
23:12 09kami: fix
23:13 Mir: 04:49:624 (1) - REALLY nazi but can you move this like 5 px up lol
23:13 Mir: so it has similar distance with 04:49:774 (2,5) -
23:13 Mir: other than that i have nothing else to point out so, update?
23:14 09kami: suer
23:14 09kami: sure
23:21 09kami: done
23:26 Mir: yeah this looks much much better
23:26 09kami: :w: thx for loooooong irc
23:27 Mir: no problem hehe
23:27 Mir: i'll summarize and post on thread
23:27 09kami: can u post to map?
23:27 Mir: mhm
20:05 09kami: can u make a quick check? I made a lot of things consistent
20:05 *09kami is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1007522 DragonForce - Extraction Zone]
20:05 Mir: hi hii
20:05 Mir: sure lets see
20:06 09kami: At least there are not so many inconsistencies now...
20:06 Mir: well aside from the fact that each kiai is mapped somehow differently i suppose
20:08 Mir: hmm so what exactly did you change
20:08 09kami: emmm..The last Kiai
20:09 Mir: it looks quite similar as the last time i saw it o.o
20:10 09kami: and "zone" consistency
20:10 09kami: Some details
20:10 Mir: 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - like here?
20:11 09kami: yup
20:11 Mir: hmm i see, but the difference is very small compared to 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) -
20:12 Mir: also to keep the ncing consistent probably remove 00:50:224 (1) - ?
20:13 Mir: o nvm
20:14 09kami: emmm..fix?
20:14 Mir: you're asking me? xD
20:15 Mir: i suppose
20:15 Mir: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - these too kinda hmm
20:15 Mir: you can probably instead do a stream?
20:15 09kami: 00:47:449 (1) - Actually, there's a NC I forgot
20:15 Mir: 01:41:674 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4) - cuz it's kinda like something similar here
20:16 Mir: 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and you can increase/decrease spacing like here
20:17 09kami: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - emmm...I think there no problem..
20:18 09kami: u mean adjusting the position?
20:18 Mir: you didnt use 1/4 sliders like this elsewhere though, so why here?
20:18 Mir: i mean just having them 1/4 sliders instead of streams
20:19 09kami: 00:46:624 (5,6,1) - like this?
20:19 Mir: mm yeah im confused why you use 1/4 sliders here
20:19 Mir: cuz in the song i dont really hear a difference from the second and last kiais
20:20 09kami: 00:46:624 - Because the voice disappeared
20:20 09kami: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) -
20:20 09kami: same
20:20 Mir: 01:43:324 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - here too tho
20:21 Mir: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - and here
20:21 Mir: but there you're still using streams o.o
20:21 09kami: This is because of the different kiai
20:22 09kami: In some places I have adopted different mapping methods
20:22 09kami: 01:39:124 (1,2,3,4,5) - like this
20:22 09kami: 00:48:124 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) -
20:22 09kami: 04:31:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) -
20:23 Mir: hmm but the song doesn't change so why are you changing the map?
20:23 09kami: In fact, the difference between the three sections is that they retain the same mapping method only in their own section
20:24 09kami: It's the same as Collab
20:24 Mir: hmm but it isn't a collab, right?
20:25 09kami: It's just me play three characters
20:25 Mir: hmm
20:26 *09kami is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1321810 Meramipop - Nokosareta Namae -Toori Kazoe Uta-]
20:26 09kami: like this
20:26 Mir: mm but the song changes so i can understand the differences
20:26 09kami: all the blue lines are mapped differently
20:26 Mir: here the song really just repeats itself 3 times but the map changes every time
20:26 09kami: But there are some places that are the same
20:27 09kami: It's just that I made him look different
20:27 Mir: hmmmmmm
20:28 Mir: i cant say i agree, but sergio and uhh.. the other bn seem to think it's fine so be it
20:29 Mir: 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - this remains questionable
20:29 Mir: imo
20:29 09kami: emmmAt least let it experiment on this map
20:31 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf3aY/44ebdeae93.png
20:31 09kami: Change to this?
20:31 Mir: would work, yea
20:32 09kami: To be honest. I want to finish this map as soon as possible. August 30th I won't have time. For some reason, I may not be in touch with the Internet for a long time
20:33 Mir: i see, a race against time then
20:33 Mir: well let me look at the streams since afaik those were like the biggest problems
20:33 09kami: So I'm going to compromise as much as I can
20:34 09kami: Hummm.. I've maintained consistency between the three sections
20:34 09kami: There is at least a certain amount of persuasion
20:37 09kami: 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - emmmm..Decline?
20:38 Mir: well no no
20:38 Mir: one second
20:38 09kami: decrease e
20:38 Mir: regarding one thing on the first kiai
20:38 Mir: 00:47:674 - these 1/4 sliders should have the same combo as 00:46:624 - right?
20:39 Mir: 00:46:624 - probably nc here i think
20:39 09kami: fix
20:40 Mir: 01:01:474 (15,16,1) - hmm so in the first kiai you used a really sharp bend here
20:40 Mir: 01:02:749 (16,1,2) - but nothing here or 01:03:949 (16,1,2) - etc
20:40 Mir: it's a lot harder to change direction that harshly than to follow an increase in spacing i think
20:41 Mir: and those other sounds definitely are at least equal if not stronger than where you decided to change the direction
20:42 09kami: fix
20:42 Mir: hmm how did you fix it?
20:44 09kami: Change that bend
20:45 09kami: Just a flow line
20:45 Mir: so something like this? http://i.imgur.com/c10QbbW.png
20:47 09kami: yup
20:47 Mir: mm okay
20:48 Mir: 00:08:674 (15,16,1,2) - you have something similar here
20:48 Mir: 00:11:149 (16,1,2) - 00:12:349 (16,1,2) - are okay
20:48 Mir: 00:06:349 (16,1,2) - but here nothing?
20:48 Mir: 00:07:549 (16,1,2) - here nothing too x.x
20:48 Mir: looks like really inconsistent since they're the same sounds strength
20:50 09kami: hummmm I don't think there's any need to change it here .mabey
20:50 09kami: There is a buffer process here
20:50 09kami: 00:06:049 (12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) -
20:50 09kami: 00:07:324 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
20:51 09kami: The angle here is getting sharper and sharper
20:51 Mir: ahh i see
20:52 09kami: If you feel the need, I can unify the first two into an acute angle
20:52 Mir: on the grounds of consistency that would work, but keeping to the "buffer process" that may not work
20:54 Mir: what about
20:54 Mir: http://i.imgur.com/IaMLQeY.png
20:54 Mir: so there's no massive direction change but there's still emphasis since you have to move suddenly for that note
20:54 09kami: hummm So, I'll unify the first paragraph?
20:55 09kami: 00:10:024 (1) - From here. You can think of the second paragraph
20:55 Mir: if you, as you say, unify the first paragraph, do you mean make it the same-ish relating to the second paragraph?
20:56 09kami: yup
20:56 Mir: then you can do so
20:57 09kami: http://i.imgur.com/IaMLQeY.png like this/
20:57 09kami: ?
20:57 Mir: that's a possibility
20:57 Mir: it's not as consistent but it promotes emphasis
20:58 Mir: so it's not like there's not emphasis consistency anymore but there's still direction inconsistency
20:58 09kami: emmm.. if I change all the key places to an acute angle?
20:59 Mir: if you did that it'd be entirely consistent
20:59 09kami: Let me try.
21:05 09kami: I updated. u can have look
21:05 Mir: yeah that looks a lot better
21:06 09kami:
21:06 09kami: Is there anywhere else?
21:08 Mir: mm not necessarily but im kinda questioning 01:00:424 - since this whole stream doesn't have any direction changes or emphasis on key points like 01:01:474 (15,16,1) - etc
21:08 Mir: it's kinda just one really long stream with a spacing increase in the middle
21:10 09kami: mabey
21:10 09kami: like 00:48:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) -
21:10 09kami: this
21:11 Mir: mhm that's actually true as well for this one
21:11 Mir: for the kiai stream it's actually fairly easy to aim that since there's no direction changes
21:11 Mir: 00:07:549 (16,1,2) - 00:11:149 (16,1,2) - but these earlier in the map present a harsher changes
21:11 Mir: which is in a non-kiai section too
21:12 09kami: But some voices are different
21:14 Mir: hmm that is true but that doesn't change the fact that this stream lacks a lot of emphasis that previous and later stream has
21:14 Mir: have*
21:14 09kami: But in other Kiai sections, I emphasize these places
21:14 09kami: These three kiai paragraphs are actually in a clear order of difficulty. This is the increasing difficulty
21:16 Mir: hmm while i can understand you want to have an increasing difficulty
21:16 Mir: there should be a similarity in the concepts used to achieve that difficulty increase
21:16 Mir: for example not using very harsh changes in the first kiai, using moderately harsh changes for second kiai, and doing stuff like 01:55:399 (6,7,8,1,2) - for the third kiai for example
21:16 Mir: a i said for example twice ><
21:17 09kami: And there are some places
21:17 09kami: They have some changes in the pitch, which is also an emphasis
21:17 09kami: spacing
21:17 Mir: mm true but spacing is a lot less difficult to adjust to compared to a straight-up direction change, no?
21:19 09kami: emmm...In fact, this change is huge, because it's a long stream
21:19 09kami: This may be a slight change for mapper, but for players, it's a very sudden acceleration. It's a difficult part
21:20 09kami: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3) - They're not like here. There's a process
21:25 Mir: hmm having played it
21:25 Mir: albeit with relax just now
21:25 Mir: i feel like the spacing increases were quite easy to adjust to
21:26 Mir: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3) - these were quite easy but were emphasis in their own right so i can agree with these
21:27 Mir: but the emphasis on 01:00:124 - increases so slightly
21:27 Mir: that it doesn't have enough contrast to compensate over the long run imho
21:28 09kami: hummm
21:29 09kami: So should change their angle?
21:29 Mir: either that or make the spacing difference way more noticeable
21:30 Mir: 04:46:249 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - like something similar to this
21:30 Mir: which i have my own issues with but the general idea is this kinda of contrast would make sense
21:35 09kami: add some ds
21:36 Mir: hmm can you send .osu or update so i can see? or send screenshot xD
21:36 09kami: I'm uploading it, but it's stopped
21:37 Mir: 11%?
21:37 09kami: emmmm Wait
21:37 09kami: no .Just suddenly broke the link
21:38 Mir: oo
21:38 09kami: https://puu.sh/xf66g/47b8e0b701.osu
21:38 09kami: well
21:38 09kami: Copy it directly. I'll update it later
21:39 Mir: 01:03:724 (1,2,3,4) - hmm can you lower this more?
21:40 09kami: hummm sure
21:40 Mir: probably 0.8 would work
21:41 Mir: 01:02:374 (11,12,13,14,15,16) - and probably you can lower this too so that "zoooone" at 01:02:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - gets way more emphasis
21:42 09kami: 01:03:724 (1,2,3,4) - http://puu.sh/xf6fQ/90d5332369.png
21:42 09kami: like this?
21:42 Mir: ooo yeah that looks good
21:43 09kami: 01:00:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - 01:01:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - I want to keep this increase
21:44 Mir: hmm okay
21:44 09kami: 01:02:824 (1,2,3,4) - These increases are already obvious,.1.4X
21:44 Mir: yeah, true
21:44 09kami: will it be too hard? Because these appear in the first paragraph of Kiai
21:45 Mir: ideally a map should have consistent difficulty so the player knows what they're getting into as soon as the map starts imo
21:45 Mir: increasing the difficulty over time does work and is a viable idea but if you make it too easy at the start and the player just fails later it's kinda
21:45 09kami: ok
21:45 Mir: so introducing such emphasis earlier is fine
21:46 Mir: uh so something else i noticed
21:46 Mir: 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - these are mapped to the guitar right? 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - these seem kinda out of place considering the guitar changes quite a bit
21:47 09kami: yup
21:48 09kami: Here's an obvious switch. I think it's between the vocals and the guitar
21:49 09kami: 01:27:424 (1,2,3,1,2) - vocals
21:49 09kami: 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - guitar
21:49 09kami: 01:29:824 (1,2,3,1,2) - 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - same
21:50 Mir: hmm i see
21:50 Mir: but the "issue" i have with this is that 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - here the guitar is not the same as it was for 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
21:50 Mir: emphasis is put on 01:31:474 (4) - and 01:31:774 (6,7) -
21:50 Mir: 01:31:174 (2) - as well to some extent
21:51 Mir: but having them all in the same pattern makes it look and play like01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - which is completely different with the guitar cuz it's all normal and constant
21:53 09kami: 01:31:474 (4,5,6,7,8) - Emmmm... u mean to make a change?
21:53 Mir: yup, some kind of indication that the guitar isn't quite the same as it was the first time
21:55 09kami: hummmm if
21:55 09kami: delete 01:31:174 (2,4,6,8) -
21:57 Mir: what would you do after deleting it? o.o
21:57 09kami: White line slider.Increase their length
21:58 09kami: Deliberately ignore some rhythms. Express them in different ways
21:58 Mir: 01:31:474 - 01:31:774 - i wonder about ignoring these though, since there are noticable spikes in the guitar here
21:59 09kami: emmmm....or delete white line slider
22:00 Mir: that would work
22:00 Mir: 01:31:924 - you have a 1/4 stream starting here with drums though, do you want to ignore that too?
22:01 09kami: ok.I give up the idea
22:02 Mir: hmmmm
22:03 Mir: you can do a sliderend stream
22:03 Mir: http://i.imgur.com/rkDcEIt.png probably
22:06 09kami: fix
22:06 Mir: alright cool
22:08 Mir: hmm probably lowering 01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or increasing01:53:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - might give some nice contrast
22:08 Mir: spacing-wise
22:09 09kami: but.01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - It has been lowered
22:09 09kami: Aren't they obvious enough?
22:10 Mir: 01:02:224 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - considering you didn't really do that here
22:10 Mir: maybe it's better to actually not decrease it
22:10 Mir: and instead leave it constant, idk
22:11 09kami: Hummm...Then I'll lower it some more
22:12 Mir: which one are you lowering? first kiai or second kiai? x.x
22:13 09kami: 01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
22:13 09kami: this
22:13 Mir: ah okay
22:14 09kami: 01:02:224 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - emmm
22:14 09kami: What does this mean here?
22:14 Mir: i was pointing out that you didn't lower that for the same reasons as you lowered it for the second kiai
22:15 09kami: oo
22:15 Mir: it might be nice to do it in the first kiai too
22:18 Mir: now here's something interesting, 03:01:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - is very possibly 1/3 so why didn't you map it as 1/3 o.o
22:21 09kami: In some similar places, if you follow the guitar, can't map
22:21 09kami: In fact, this is instead to maintain a consistency with the player, and the drums have enough rhythm to support 1/4
22:22 09kami: 1/3 and 1/4 stream frequent switching. Will mislead the player
22:23 09kami: 03:21:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1) -
22:23 09kami: like this
22:23 Mir: hmm having tried it out i came up with http://i.imgur.com/CyRDC3H.png
22:24 09kami: 03:21:124 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5) -
22:24 Mir: or something
22:25 09kami: hummmm i try
22:30 09kami: https://puu.sh/xf8ky/824bfb52e7.png
22:30 09kami: like this?
22:31 Mir: hmm
22:32 Mir: how about making 03:02:224 - a 2/3 slider
22:32 Mir: since there's nothing on 03:02:324 - and 03:02:424 - lands after a reverse so it kinda loses emphasis
22:34 09kami: fix
22:35 Mir: 03:10:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - looking at this hmm you used quite a few direction changes but
22:35 Mir: 03:11:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - as a climactic stream this doesn't use any
22:35 Mir: kinda weird not emphasizing the last strong stream as much as the previous one imo
22:40 09kami: I really don't want to change this place .But I'm not quite sure how to explain the process .Let me see how to express it
22:40 Mir: okay
22:42 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf8Ol/75d4dfdb30.jpg
22:42 09kami: This paragraph is like a vase. Although the front is very winding, you only need to finish flow to finish it
22:42 Mir: hmm
22:43 09kami: But there's something different, because it's a natural feeling. You can think it's just because I think he's changed in 03:11:824 (5)
22:43 Mir: in keeping with that idea
22:43 Mir: how about instead of changing direction, increase the spacing?
22:44 09kami: If all the places are trimmed together, I lose a special feeling. I know how to express it
22:45 Mir: something like this probably http://i.imgur.com/Cu1OilN.png
22:45 Mir: you can probably make it look nicer than me though x.x
22:45 Mir: so with the spacing increase there's still emphasis while still keeping the direction
22:46 09kami: But it does not increase the spacing to the feeling
22:46 09kami: So I used 03:11:824 (5) - to distinguish them
22:47 Mir: hmmm
22:47 09kami: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
22:47 09kami: add this?
22:47 Mir: mhm, add spacing to that
22:47 Mir: instead of changing how it flows at all
22:48 09kami: but 03:11:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - this
22:48 09kami: 1.0
22:48 09kami: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4) - this
22:48 09kami: 1.2
22:48 Mir: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4) - 1.2 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - 1.4
22:48 Mir: possibly
22:49 09kami: emmm
22:49 09kami: 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - 1.3Isn't it high enough?
22:50 Mir: contrast is lacking there imo
22:50 09kami: ok i do
22:51 09kami: done
22:51 Mir: 03:53:524 (1,2,1) - eeeeee
22:52 Mir: since you removed the other one, having this one would be too unexpected imo
22:53 09kami: hummm....Here's kencho's advice
22:53 09kami: 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - and
22:53 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf9mW/3ae0060113.png
22:53 Mir: that could work too, it seems like the spacing increase is more obvious that way as well
22:54 Mir: but we both kind had the same idea there so yeah xD
22:54 09kami: 03:53:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - Here, if follow the guitar, can't map
22:55 09kami: Because some are not at fixed rhythm.
22:55 09kami: on
22:57 Mir: nono im not saying follow the guitar
22:57 Mir: im saying 03:53:749 (2,1) - this stack is unexpected
22:59 Mir: how about trying http://i.imgur.com/kgDqeOJ.png
22:59 Mir: 03:55:024 (1,2) - so it's similar to this
23:03 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf9RS/be7cf68bb1.png
23:03 Mir: yeah that works too lol
23:05 Mir: 04:47:824 (5,6,7,8) - for this one i find it kind of strange that the switch in guitar gets the lowest spacing o.o
23:05 Mir: i feel like it should all be the same spacing
23:07 09kami: the end is in this place
23:08 09kami: 04:47:524 (1) -
23:08 09kami: 04:47:524 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - It's a steady process
23:09 Mir: mm i see but 04:47:824 (5) - this note in particular stands out a lot but there isn't much emphasis on it
23:10 09kami: hummm..So that's where it begins?
23:10 Mir: at least my interpretation of it is
23:11 Mir: 04:47:524 (1,2,3,4) - it declines here
23:11 Mir: and starts up here 04:47:824 (5,6,7,8,1) -
23:11 Mir: so essentially swapping where you decrease the spacing with where you increase it would make more sense to me
23:12 09kami: fix
23:13 Mir: 04:49:624 (1) - REALLY nazi but can you move this like 5 px up lol
23:13 Mir: so it has similar distance with 04:49:774 (2,5) -
23:13 Mir: other than that i have nothing else to point out so, update?
23:14 09kami: suer
23:14 09kami: sure
23:21 09kami: done
23:26 Mir: yeah this looks much much better
23:26 09kami: :w: thx for loooooong irc
23:27 Mir: no problem hehe
23:27 Mir: i'll summarize and post on thread
23:27 09kami: can u post to map?
23:27 Mir: mhm
Okay essentially we discussed for about 3 hours and 30 mins about various concerns brought up by the community + some of my own and adjusted the following:
- Stream emphasis consistency through kiais and overall in the map. While 09kami prefers to have differences between kiais, we managed to compromise in using spacing changes as a unified form of emphasis throughout all 3 kiais. We discussed the usage of more direction changes for emphasis and increasing spacing in order to establish contrast in order to provide more clear emphasis.
- The stacked 1/2 into 1/4 stream that fieryrage made a fiery rage post about (I'm not sorry) was removed in all instances. It is no longer a concept in the map.
- The 1/3 guitar stream in the solo is now mapped with 1/3.
- Differentiation between 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - has now been adjusted. They both are no longer the same pattern for different sounds.
- Various minor NC changes, and a pixel-fix somewhere at the end.
Hopefully these changes helped the map and polished it up to a more acceptable state for the concerned parties!
01:56:224 (1) - make this one a bit louder pls, it's barely audible and stands out so much in the song. ~50% would be nice
02:53:524 (13) - turn should probably be on 02:53:449 - to consistent with emphasis on 02:51:949 (8,12) - ?
04:19:024 - can you decrease volume in 5% steps instead of 10% ones here? it's getting too quiet too fast imo, making it quite awkward to play
still not really liking the usage of hihat samples, but I guess it's acceptable now and better than the old electronic drums
overall the map seems much better now, so feel free to continue with the ranking process
02:53:524 (13) - turn should probably be on 02:53:449 - to consistent with emphasis on 02:51:949 (8,12) - ?
04:19:024 - can you decrease volume in 5% steps instead of 10% ones here? it's getting too quiet too fast imo, making it quite awkward to play
still not really liking the usage of hihat samples, but I guess it's acceptable now and better than the old electronic drums
overall the map seems much better now, so feel free to continue with the ranking process
Topic Starter
thx.all doneLasse wrote:
01:56:224 (1) - make this one a bit louder pls, it's barely audible and stands out so much in the song. ~50% would be nice
fix
02:53:524 (13) - turn should probably be on 02:53:449 - to consistent with emphasis on 02:51:949 (8,12) - ?
fix
04:19:024 - can you decrease volume in 5% steps instead of 10% ones here? it's getting too quiet too fast imo, making it quite awkward to play
fix
still not really liking the usage of hihat samples, but I guess it's acceptable now and better than the old electronic drums
overall the map seems much better now, so feel free to continue with the ranking process
As requested.
- 01:53:899 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - fix that shape, take the idea from my first modpost. Try to make something like
- 01:31:174 (2,3,4) - there can be a higher distance between these 1/2 sliders to make them played better, they play easier compared to the other patterns concerning the distance. The same idea goes for 04:40:474 (1,2,3) -
01:19:324 (2) - you forgot hitsound here
01:54:949 (16,8) - personal issue for me at these curves since they're quite difficult to play when the space streams dont align on the downbeat
02:19:324 (3) - whistle here
02:22:024 (2) - and here too (sounds a lot better imo), also to keep it consistent since its added here 02:24:424 (1) -
02:26:824 (5) - also over here and beyond it seems to switch up the placement of whistle hitsounds, im unsure why, maybe keep it consistent?
03:02:224 (2) - this note ends on red tick, not 1/3 purple
03:05:224 (1) - make sliderend clickable pls
04:10:399 (14) - this curve makes this stream extremely difficult to hit, maybe try moving 04:10:474 (15) - up by a little
04:18:424 (1) - blue and red tick after this note has drums that arent mapped, is this intentional?
04:30:724 (1) - 04:35:524 (1) - these ncs seem very inconsistent throughout the song, such as areas like this 01:37:924 (5) - and this 01:42:724 (1) -, im sure there are more but i lost track
feels a lot better when playing now
01:54:949 (16,8) - personal issue for me at these curves since they're quite difficult to play when the space streams dont align on the downbeat
02:19:324 (3) - whistle here
02:22:024 (2) - and here too (sounds a lot better imo), also to keep it consistent since its added here 02:24:424 (1) -
02:26:824 (5) - also over here and beyond it seems to switch up the placement of whistle hitsounds, im unsure why, maybe keep it consistent?
03:02:224 (2) - this note ends on red tick, not 1/3 purple
03:05:224 (1) - make sliderend clickable pls
04:10:399 (14) - this curve makes this stream extremely difficult to hit, maybe try moving 04:10:474 (15) - up by a little
04:18:424 (1) - blue and red tick after this note has drums that arent mapped, is this intentional?
04:30:724 (1) - 04:35:524 (1) - these ncs seem very inconsistent throughout the song, such as areas like this 01:37:924 (5) - and this 01:42:724 (1) -, im sure there are more but i lost track
feels a lot better when playing now
Topic Starter
thxCherry Blossom wrote:
As requested.fix
- 01:53:899 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - fix that shape, take the idea from my first modpost. Try to make something like
fix- 01:31:174 (2,3,4) - there can be a higher distance between these 1/2 sliders to make them played better, they play easier compared to the other patterns concerning the distance. The same idea goes for 04:40:474 (1,2,3) -
Topic Starter
thx modidke wrote:
01:19:324 (2) - you forgot hitsound here fix
01:54:949 (16,8) - personal issue for me at these curves since they're quite difficult to play when the space streams dont align on the downbeat emmm...no
02:19:324 (3) - whistle here hummmm...no because 02:19:774 (4) - is whistle. 02:19:324 (3) - adding whistle feels a little strange
02:22:024 (2) - and here too (sounds a lot better imo), also to keep it consistent since its added here 02:24:424 (1) - 02:22:624 (1) - fix for whistle
02:26:824 (5) - also over here and beyond it seems to switch up the placement of whistle hitsounds, im unsure why, maybe keep it consistent?
hummm...no Because the song itself has a drum sound in this place
03:02:224 (2) - this note ends on red tick, not 1/3 purple no 03:02:424 - there was a distinct voice .03:02:374 - but it's fuzzy here
03:05:224 (1) - make sliderend clickable pls fix
04:10:399 (14) - this curve makes this stream extremely difficult to hit, maybe try moving 04:10:474 (15) - up by a little fix
04:18:424 (1) - blue and red tick after this note has drums that arent mapped, is this intentional? yup. this is to create a sense of pause. but more of the reason is that guitar sounds are the most important sound
04:30:724 (1) - 04:35:524 (1) - these ncs seem very inconsistent throughout the song, such as areas like this 01:37:924 (5) - and this 01:42:724 (1) -, im sure there are more but i lost track
fix. These places are largely due to differences in voices, so NC
feels a lot better when playing now
irc mod
Looks good now21:47 Kencho: hi
21:48 09kami: !y
21:48 Kencho: 没意外
21:48 09kami: 应该可以
21:48 *Kencho is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1007522 DragonForce - Extraction Zone [Legend]]
21:49 Kencho: 我要随便irc看看
21:49 09kami: 要重新传你一份吗
21:49 Kencho: 你没更新吗
21:49 09kami: normal那组音效删了
21:49 Kencho: 我这重新下载的
21:49 09kami: 更新了
21:49 Kencho: 没有normal
21:49 09kami: 可以
21:51 Kencho: 00:21:574 (5) - ctrl+G好像好点
21:51 09kami: fix
21:53 Kencho: 01:08:074 (3) - 这个我怎么觉得要删掉呢
21:53 Kencho: 还有01:10:474 (3) -
21:54 Kencho: 01:05:674 - 主要是你这里没加1/4
21:54 Kencho: 我觉得三个地方都加或者三个都不加
21:54 09kami: 01:05:674 - 那干脆在这加一个不就行了
21:55 Kencho: 01:10:474 (3,4) - 然后是这个
21:55 Kencho: 3和4的位置换一下
21:55 Kencho: 因为你前面01:07:924 (2,3) - 是23叠
21:55 Kencho: 后面是24叠
21:57 Kencho: 然后这个01:31:174 (2) - 改成两个圆圈打击感比较好，个人感觉不适合用滑条
21:58 09kami: fix
21:59 Kencho: 01:44:224 (1,2,3) - 这个pattern怪难看的，不知道怎么说
22:00 Kencho: 就是13滑条overlap有点难受
22:01 Kencho: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8908263
22:01 Kencho: 就是这样如何
22:01 09kami: 改成我发群里那个了
22:02 Kencho: 直接改了形状啊
22:02 Kencho: 好吧
22:02 09kami: 嗯
22:03 Kencho: 02:55:924 (3) - NC?
22:04 09kami: 1
22:06 Kencho: 后面还行
22:06 Kencho: 好
22:06 Kencho: 更新吧
22:07 09kami: 好
22:08 09kami: ok
22:08 09kami: 等等
22:08 09kami: 你看
22:08 Kencho: ？
22:08 09kami: 能不能再删几个note
22:08 09kami: 弄到2017
22:08 Kencho: 你的风格来说应该好弄
22:09 Kencho: 你先更新一下
22:09 09kami: 算了 好麻烦
22:09 09kami: 更新完了
22:10 Kencho: 00:21:574 (5) - 比如说这个地方，你后面都用了圈，你可以都改成滑条
22:10 Kencho: 00:30:874 (4,1,2,1,2) -
22:11 Kencho: 有点麻烦
22:11 Kencho: 那你要改吗
22:11 09kami: 00:22:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - 这里改成两个滑条
22:11 Kencho: 噢
22:11 Kencho: 你喜欢
22:12 09kami: 00:22:174 (2,3,4,5,6) - 这里也是
22:12 09kami: emmm
22:12 09kami: 算了 到时又被人拿出来说
22:12 Kencho: 2026年有人会记得的
22:12 Kencho: xixi
22:13 09kami: 那个地方改成4个滑条后
22:13 09kami: 2018.
22:13 Kencho: 那随便把两个圈换成话题
22:13 Kencho: 滑条
22:16 09kami: 把这里改成一个滑条
22:16 09kami: 01:33:124 (5,6) -
22:17 09kami: 我更新你看看？
22:17 Kencho: 好
22:18 09kami: 更新完了
22:20 Kencho: 可以
22:20 Kencho: 那就这样
22:20 09kami: 那 没毛病了
01:31:324 (3,4,5) - those hitsounds on the tail are not the best. If they require such strong hitsounding why are they not clickable.. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8916976
05:01:324 (1) - doesn't this end at 05:02:074 - instead in the song?
05:01:324 (1) - doesn't this end at 05:02:074 - instead in the song?
Topic Starter
MrSergio wrote:
01:31:324 (3,4,5) - those hitsounds on the tail are not the best. If they require such strong hitsounding why are they not clickable.. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8916976
fix
05:01:324 (1) - doesn't this end at 05:02:074 - instead in the song?
fix
Will ignoring the hate comments about me on twitter will make any difference, I wonder 
gratz
btw, in all the other dragonforce maps that have cs5 or keep to the tradition, they all have slider tick rate 2 i believe
intentional to keep it as 1?
intentional to keep it as 1?
00:19:624 (9) - I feel like the NC should be here rather than 00:19:924 (1) - just like how you NC'd in the other part such as 00:32:824 (1) -
02:39:424 (1) - Don't you think this slider should end at the white tick instead of the blue tick? I don't think there's a sound ending on the white tick, but rather on the white tick.
02:42:424 (9) - I would NC this part of the stream consdering you NC'd 02:43:024 (1) -
03:56:824 (9) - ^ I'd say the same thing here (03:57:424 (1) - as you NC'd this)
Sorry, it's not really a big mod, I'm not a very experienced mapper, but I hope this might somewhat still be helpful, but nice map, good luck.
02:39:424 (1) - Don't you think this slider should end at the white tick instead of the blue tick? I don't think there's a sound ending on the white tick, but rather on the white tick.
02:42:424 (9) - I would NC this part of the stream consdering you NC'd 02:43:024 (1) -
03:56:824 (9) - ^ I'd say the same thing here (03:57:424 (1) - as you NC'd this)
Sorry, it's not really a big mod, I'm not a very experienced mapper, but I hope this might somewhat still be helpful, but nice map, good luck.
Mod, because i feel like you need fix something untill it will be ranked and i think it will be helpful
00:06:349 (16,1) - make the sharp angle of stream on white tick with new combo, because sharp angles are important part of streams so they sohuld be white ticks with new combo
00:07:549 (16,1) - same here
00:08:749 (16,1) - same
00:45:424 (5) - move 5 a bit closer to 6, it will make spacing will looks smoother
01:03:949 (4) - same
01:09:124 (3) - maybe nc?
01:36:799 (10) - move it a bit to 1, to make spacing smoother
01:40:774 (5,6,1) - it looks so wierd so move 01:40:474 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - up to make sharp angle like this 01:41:599 (6) - move to 1 to make spacing smoother
01:51:349 (4) - same
01:53:749 (6) - same
01:54:949 (16,1) - sharp angle at end of stream on white tick with new combo
01:55:549 (8,1) - same
02:35:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - change stream to 1/8 reverse sliders on strong sounds because 1/8 sounds are not that loud and important, so they should be repeats of sliders
02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - all sharp angles on white ticks, move it to white pls
03:04:549 (8,1) - 1 should be at low spacing like 7-8 cuz it's end of this line, where spacing becoming lower and lower like you done it here 04:30:799 (2,1) 03:18:574 (8) - nc this, remove nc at 03:19:024 (1) -
03:18:874 (10,2) - make them higher and at same high
03:22:324 (1,2,3,4,1) - increase spacing on every note a bit, cuz sound getting higher
03:38:524 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - nerf jumps, there is not such powerful sound
03:57:349 (16,1) - sharp angle on white tick with new combo
04:10:624 (1) - after most spaced stream in map slider is 1.1x speed, player will move cursor so fast because large spacing and prob choke cuz slider is not fast enough, make it 1.5x atleast and sound is still high
04:13:624 (1) - why you nced this slider but don't nced 04:14:824 (5) - ?
04:36:499 (6,7,8,1) - it's not sharp enough for sharp angle, but too sharp for smooth stream lul
04:59:974 (1,2,3,4,5) - spacing changes a lot but sound is same
Also you done sharp angles on white ticks with nc many times, so i think you understand that they should be at them
I tried my best
00:06:349 (16,1) - make the sharp angle of stream on white tick with new combo, because sharp angles are important part of streams so they sohuld be white ticks with new combo
00:07:549 (16,1) - same here
00:08:749 (16,1) - same
00:45:424 (5) - move 5 a bit closer to 6, it will make spacing will looks smoother
01:03:949 (4) - same
01:09:124 (3) - maybe nc?
01:36:799 (10) - move it a bit to 1, to make spacing smoother
01:40:774 (5,6,1) - it looks so wierd so move 01:40:474 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - up to make sharp angle like this 01:41:599 (6) - move to 1 to make spacing smoother
01:51:349 (4) - same
01:53:749 (6) - same
01:54:949 (16,1) - sharp angle at end of stream on white tick with new combo
01:55:549 (8,1) - same
02:35:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - change stream to 1/8 reverse sliders on strong sounds because 1/8 sounds are not that loud and important, so they should be repeats of sliders
02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - all sharp angles on white ticks, move it to white pls
03:04:549 (8,1) - 1 should be at low spacing like 7-8 cuz it's end of this line, where spacing becoming lower and lower like you done it here 04:30:799 (2,1) 03:18:574 (8) - nc this, remove nc at 03:19:024 (1) -
03:18:874 (10,2) - make them higher and at same high
03:22:324 (1,2,3,4,1) - increase spacing on every note a bit, cuz sound getting higher
03:38:524 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - nerf jumps, there is not such powerful sound
03:57:349 (16,1) - sharp angle on white tick with new combo
04:10:624 (1) - after most spaced stream in map slider is 1.1x speed, player will move cursor so fast because large spacing and prob choke cuz slider is not fast enough, make it 1.5x atleast and sound is still high
04:13:624 (1) - why you nced this slider but don't nced 04:14:824 (5) - ?
04:36:499 (6,7,8,1) - it's not sharp enough for sharp angle, but too sharp for smooth stream lul
04:59:974 (1,2,3,4,5) - spacing changes a lot but sound is same
Also you done sharp angles on white ticks with nc many times, so i think you understand that they should be at them
I tried my best
Topic Starter
Broly wrote:
00:19:624 (9) - I feel like the NC should be here rather than 00:19:924 (1) - just like how you NC'd in the other part such as 00:32:824 (1) -
00: 32: 824 ( 1 ) - how do you see that they want to keep the same NC? Why don't you say 00: 30: 124 ( 5 ) - save the same?or 00:28:024 (7) - ?00:17:224 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 00:18:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 00:19:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - I don't want to say too much.
02:39:424 (1) - Don't you think this slider should end at the white tick instead of the blue tick? I don't think there's a sound ending on the white tick, but rather on the white tick.
This method of using the slider to express sound is not very difficult to see.02:39:949 - and, according to what you want to say. it should be here.but obviously. I didn't choose to stay here.02:40:849 - If you can understand the voice here
02:42:424 (9) - I would NC this part of the stream consdering you NC'd 02:43:024 (1) -
03:56:824 (9) - ^ I'd say the same thing here (03:57:424 (1) - as you NC'd this)
no, why do I do this? This is not a necessary NC
Sorry, it's not really a big mod, I'm not a very experienced mapper, but I hope this might somewhat still be helpful, but nice map, good luck.
I don't think it's good for this map.
Topic Starter
Tukan4ik wrote:
Mod, because i feel like you need fix something untill it will be ranked and i think it will be helpful
00:06:349 (16,1) - make the sharp angle of stream on white tick with new combo, because sharp angles are important part of streams so they sohuld be white ticks with new combo
00:07:549 (16,1) - same here
00:08:749 (16,1) - same
？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？This guy says. need to add NC on the blue line?
are you sure. do you have a basic understanding of mapping?
00:45:424 (5) - move 5 a bit closer to 6, it will make spacing will looks smoother no
01:03:949 (4) - same no
01:09:124 (3) - maybe nc? why say mabey?Do you have enough reason to let me in here NC?
01:13:924 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - 04:52:924 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - 04:57:724 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - If you have reason to let all of these are NC.
01:36:799 (10) - move it a bit to 1, to make spacing smoother no. smoother.But it does not apply here. here is a force of strength.The contrast between the extreme deceleration and acceleration will be expressed by the power of 01: 36: 874 (1)
01:40:774 (5,6,1) - it looks so wierd so move 01:40:474 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - up to make sharp angle like this same
01:41:599 (6) - move to 1 to make spacing smoother same
01:51:349 (4) - same no
01:53:749 (6) - same no
01:54:949 (16,1) - sharp angle at end of stream on white tick with new combo no
01:55:549 (8,1) - same no
02:35:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - change stream to 1/8 reverse sliders on strong sounds because 1/8 sounds are not that loud and important, so they should be repeats of sliders
Do you know this is 100 BPM?What is the difference between the sliders and the present? Just because you think it's 1 / 8 of all that looks difficult.
02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - all sharp angles on white ticks, move it to white pls
ok. from this mod. I've found that you don't see the mod at all. there's no suggestion to make a good map of the map.All of your opinions. just for yourself. not for the map. you just make yourself feel more comfortable.Because many places. I believe in the previous mod. I have put forward very, very, very detailed views and views.But you don't pay attention to them. you just put it out. and there are some very strange ideas. for example. you think you should add NC on the blue line. I think this is the most basic mapping knowledge. but you don't understand.so.
”Mod, because i feel like you need fix something untill it will be ranked and i think it will be helpful“
What role do you put in this sentence? Is it a mapper? no. as a player ? I don't think your rank can experience this map very well.Like I said before. I don't compromise for everyone.Since you don't care about the previous discussion. why do you want to raise these questions now?Just to let me explain it again?
03:04:549 (8,1) - 1 should be at low spacing like 7-8 cuz it's end of this line, where spacing becoming lower and lower like you done it here 04:30:799 (2,1) I believe in the details of my discussions with mir. so . no
03:18:574 (8) - nc this, remove nc at 03:19:024 (1) -
??????????????????????????03:17:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - 03:19:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Look here. say your point. you're just saying let me do it. but there's no reason. these words look like " I think"
03:18:874 (10,2) - make them higher and at same high
wt.......Are you really writing a better mod for this map?
03:22:324 (1,2,3,4,1) - increase spacing on every note a bit, cuz sound getting higher no. you think you need to smooth, why do you suddenly increase the spacing here? Doesn't this view go against your point of view?
03:38:524 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - nerf jumps, there is not such powerful sound
???????????????????????????????????????????????????? no. are you joking? you feel is not obvious . really?
03:57:349 (16,1) - sharp angle on white tick with new combo same. no
04:10:624 (1) - after most spaced stream in map slider is 1.1x speed, player will move cursor so fast because large spacing and prob choke cuz slider is not fast enough, make it 1.5x atleast and sound is still high no.I don't recognize that when people play here, they can't even grasp the speed.
04:13:624 (1) - why you nced this slider but don't nced 04:14:824 (5) - ? no
04:36:499 (6,7,8,1) - it's not sharp enough for sharp angle, but too sharp for smooth stream lul
no
04:59:974 (1,2,3,4,5) - spacing changes a lot but sound is same
no
Also you done sharp angles on white ticks with nc many times, so i think you understand that they should be at them
I tried my best
I can't agree with you. are you sure you did your best? You don't even pay attention to this map before. you just occasionally see it. say something you think. I don't think your question can help me, but I think . when you put forward a mod . it's best to be responsible for your own statements . because it's not just about a mod . when some wrong comments come up . it makes people question the reason why you put this mod.
pls no bully kami
Just because someone with not-so-much experience modded your map it doesn't mean you can just shit on them and actually question if they really did their best...
Interesting. I didn't know 1/8 100 bpm was 100 bpm.09kami wrote:
Tukan4ik wrote:
02:35:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - change stream to 1/8 reverse sliders on strong sounds because 1/8 sounds are not that loud and important, so they should be repeats of sliders
Do you know this is 100 BPM?What is the difference between the sliders and the present? Just because you think it's 1 / 8 of all that looks difficult.
That wasn't the implication. The implication was 1/8 on 100 is not hard, it only looks hard because it's 1/8 when it's the same as all the other 200bpm streams that were used earlier.F1r3tar wrote:
Interesting. I didn't know 1/8 100 bpm was 100 bpm.09kami wrote:
Do you know this is 100 BPM?What is the difference between the sliders and the present? Just because you think it's 1 / 8 of all that looks difficult.
1/8 100 = 1/4 200
god of algebra confirmed?Surono wrote:
1/8 100 = 1/4 200
@09kami
That's not how you reply to mods + I already told you to edit your own posts instead of making a double post.
Give a read to https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Cr ... of_Conduct
@everyone
Refrain from straying away from the topic, you guys know you should be talking about the map instead of fueling any potential misbehaviour.
Also please report, the Code of Conduct is not just something we made up for show, it's a set of rules which should be respected.
That's not how you reply to mods + I already told you to edit your own posts instead of making a double post.
Give a read to https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Cr ... of_Conduct
@everyone
Refrain from straying away from the topic, you guys know you should be talking about the map instead of fueling any potential misbehaviour.
Also please report, the Code of Conduct is not just something we made up for show, it's a set of rules which should be respected.
I have a little suggestion, I don't really know if it's worth to DQ the map for this, but that would be cool to have your point of view, cause I'm questioning about it.
00:45:124 (1) - You make a good thing by using DS changes during stream to emphasize the song, and that fit pretty well. But there is some places where there was the same kind of "sound" or "melody", where you didn't make it. For instance here: 00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - it just felt weird to me, cause you made it previously, and this time, there is no DS changes.
00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same for here, I think it's because there is a curved shape, so it gives the feel like they are more spaced than previously, but when I look at it, those two notes 00:47:224 (3,7) - are at two different sides of the stream, so they're filling two different types of beats, but they're at the same distance from the last note.
00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - To me it's more a personnal taste, but I don't agree with the fact that the DS is reduced on the end of the stream, cause it feels like the word "love" is stronger than the rest of the stream, so that would make more sense if there is a 1.2x distance snap here, like you did previously, instead of a 1.0x.
00:58:024 (1,2) - Wouldn't be better to play to just swap the place of those two notes? I think that in matter of flow, it might not be enjoyable to play. The flow here is pretty sharp, and it wouldn't be pleasant to having a sharp turn here while having no real strong beat. (If the problem is the distance snap, cause this note: 00:58:024 (1) - is distanced by 1/4 gap, then just move a bit the notes to make it better.)
01:38:749 (10,11,12,13,14) - I would recommend you to slow the DS on the end of this stream to emphasize well the song, plus to be consistant with that part: 01:37:624 (1,2,3,4,1) - where you added a DS changes for the same kind of sound.
That's all I can say. Beside the DS on stream, I think the map is good.
00:45:124 (1) - You make a good thing by using DS changes during stream to emphasize the song, and that fit pretty well. But there is some places where there was the same kind of "sound" or "melody", where you didn't make it. For instance here: 00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - it just felt weird to me, cause you made it previously, and this time, there is no DS changes.
00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same for here, I think it's because there is a curved shape, so it gives the feel like they are more spaced than previously, but when I look at it, those two notes 00:47:224 (3,7) - are at two different sides of the stream, so they're filling two different types of beats, but they're at the same distance from the last note.
00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - To me it's more a personnal taste, but I don't agree with the fact that the DS is reduced on the end of the stream, cause it feels like the word "love" is stronger than the rest of the stream, so that would make more sense if there is a 1.2x distance snap here, like you did previously, instead of a 1.0x.
00:58:024 (1,2) - Wouldn't be better to play to just swap the place of those two notes? I think that in matter of flow, it might not be enjoyable to play. The flow here is pretty sharp, and it wouldn't be pleasant to having a sharp turn here while having no real strong beat. (If the problem is the distance snap, cause this note: 00:58:024 (1) - is distanced by 1/4 gap, then just move a bit the notes to make it better.)
01:38:749 (10,11,12,13,14) - I would recommend you to slow the DS on the end of this stream to emphasize well the song, plus to be consistant with that part: 01:37:624 (1,2,3,4,1) - where you added a DS changes for the same kind of sound.
That's all I can say. Beside the DS on stream, I think the map is good.
Topic Starter
MrSergio wrote:
@09kami
That's not how you reply to mods + I already told you to edit your own posts instead of making a double post.
Give a read to https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Cr ... of_Conduct
@everyone
Refrain from straying away from the topic, you guys know you should be talking about the map instead of fueling any potential misbehaviour.
Also please report, the Code of Conduct is not just something we made up for show, it's a set of rules which should be respected.
umm ...I'm sorry. because I need to build a text to translate each mod., it would be confusing for me to put multiple mod together ..I will pay more attention to this later.
thx u proposalPachiru wrote:
I have a little suggestion, I don't really know if it's worth to DQ the map for this, but that would be cool to have your point of view, cause I'm questioning about it.
00:45:124 (1) - You make a good thing by using DS changes during stream to emphasize the song, and that fit pretty well. But there is some places where there was the same kind of "sound" or "melody", where you didn't make it. For instance here: 00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - it just felt weird to me, cause you made it previously, and this time, there is no DS changes.
00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - emmmm..just 00:50:674 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - slider .It's also a variation of spacing. 00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - actually, I was here with an abbreviated spacing of stream., but because of MOD., I had to compromise
00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same for here, I think it's because there is a curved shape, so it gives the feel like they are more spaced than previously, but when I look at it, those two notes 00:47:224 (3,7) - are at two different sides of the stream, so they're filling two different types of beats, but they're at the same distance from the last note.
emmm...I did not understand this passage .but 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just because flow zone 。02:05:824 (1) - u mean you should change to such a stream?
00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - To me it's more a personnal taste, but I don't agree with the fact that the DS is reduced on the end of the stream, cause it feels like the word "love" is stronger than the rest of the stream, so that would make more sense if there is a 1.2x distance snap here, like you did previously, instead of a 1.0x.
I know!! because I had a similar idea with you before, but I think it should shorten the DS. to about 0.75, but in the next mod, I compromised the place
00:58:024 (1,2) - Wouldn't be better to play to just swap the place of those two notes? I think that in matter of flow, it might not be enjoyable to play. The flow here is pretty sharp, and it wouldn't be pleasant to having a sharp turn here while having no real strong beat. (If the problem is the distance snap, cause this note: 00:58:024 (1) - is distanced by 1/4 gap, then just move a bit the notes to make it better.)
hummm...I don't deny your idea. but proper reverse flow. may add a little extra flavor .u can take my remark as an excuse
01:38:749 (10,11,12,13,14) - I would recommend you to slow the DS on the end of this stream to emphasize well the song, plus to be consistant with that part: 01:37:624 (1,2,3,4,1) - where you added a DS changes for the same kind of sound.
this some part like 01:42:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,1) - It was designed on purpose .
That's all I can say. Beside the DS on stream, I think the map is good.
I was just suggesting you to add some DS diversity here like you did previously, but don't worry it's still playable well, I just think that it could've make it more representative of the song, but if you prefer to keep it like this, then let's keep itPachiru wrote:
00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same for here, I think it's because there is a curved shape, so it gives the feel like they are more spaced than previously, but when I look at it, those two notes 00:47:224 (3,7) - are at two different sides of the stream, so they're filling two different types of beats, but they're at the same distance from the last note.
emmm...I did not understand this passage .but 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just because flow zone 。02:05:824 (1) - u mean you should change to such a stream?
Topic Starter
In the original version. It changes with the idea very much. but it seems that many people cannot accept. So I chose to compromise in many places. u know. In order to retain the most number of things. I spent a lot of time. but I also want to be able to represent this map as much as possible. ur suggestion is a great idea .Pachiru wrote:
I was just suggesting you to add some DS diversity here like you did previously, but don't worry it's still playable well, I just think that it could've make it more representative of the song, but if you prefer to keep it like this, then let's keep itPachiru wrote:
00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same for here, I think it's because there is a curved shape, so it gives the feel like they are more spaced than previously, but when I look at it, those two notes 00:47:224 (3,7) - are at two different sides of the stream, so they're filling two different types of beats, but they're at the same distance from the last note.
emmm...I did not understand this passage .but 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just because flow zone 。02:05:824 (1) - u mean you should change to such a stream?