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[Rule Change] difficulty naming on marathon maps

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21
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
Kibbleru
ok. so please correct me if im wrong,

As far as i know, currently, the only custom difficulty name is only allowed on the highest difficulty of a mapset. and it also has to fit with the song;
something like

easy
normal
hard
insane
-insert custom name-

But i find this rule kind of pointless when you have a marathon map with two or three difficulties. With the current rule, if you were to map a marathon with 2 guest diffs. you would have to probably name it something like this

xxx's extra
xxx's extra
-custom name-

is this really necessary?

here's an example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/291689
to make this set properly rankable i would have to change pk's diff into --> pk's extra, which makes almost no sense to me.

I propse that we make some kind of exception to our current rule stating that we can use more than one custom difficulty name if the mapset is a marathon without a full spread.

here's what the rule currently is:

RC wrote:

A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set. The mapset's hardest difficulty may use an appropriate custom difficulty name, unrelated to a username. Mapsets may also use a complete set of custom difficulty names that clearly indicate their level of difficulty to the player. Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming.

any thoughts?
Last edited by Kibbleru , edited 2 times in total.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
Doesn't the rule contain exceptions for marathons? Even if the marathon diffs are in your set they should count towards the exception as well. This shouldn't be an issue.

I support this.
Please change the rule from "Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming" to "Marathon maps may use free naming".

Reasoning being that they could get the free naming by uploading sets themselves and honestly that's rather stupid.
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
Kibbleru
honestly the only problem i see is some people would be retarded and map a 5+ drain time song with a full set and name the entire thing backwards.
(like extra>insane>hard>normal>easy) instead of (easy>normal>hard>insane>extra)
so we need something to stop that.

something along the lines of 'be tasteful'. idk
idk as long as common sense is used here it should be fine to allow this exception.

then again this is the osu mapping community we're talking about lol...
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
I agree with Kibbleru. GD'ers could have also the right to choose the custom name on the map. It's better if we avoid this kind of names over mapsets to be approved. Example:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/358353
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
Same thing, supporthing this as well - as long as shit like "this song is about xxx" never gets used again.
BoberOfDarkness
1,061 posts
Joined October 2013
BoberOfDarkness
Nothing to say more than
I support this
Nerova Riuz GX
1,413 posts
Joined April 2012
Nerova Riuz GX
basically I support this, the diff naming on marathon maps should have some difference to separate it from normal maps.
though this is a really good question, it also has some exceptions.

take a look at pishi's map: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/780182

he made 6 diffs in a single map for marathon, it almost became a full set but without low diffs.
it's really hard to make them all mapped with custom names, which will make this map like a mess and almost nonsense
but all of those diffs have their own features, so it's hard to use normal diff names as well. (the current names are only based on sr)
I hope we can have a rule which can allow those cases like yours but also take care of this kind of special ones.

the first thing that came up in my mind is to set a "maximum number of diffs" on the rule
like if you have more than 2 or 3 diffs in your marathon set, then you can't use free naming on your diffs.
but i know this is not good enough...welp whatever that's the best i can get from my shit brain.
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
I think rule its fine as it is, if you want to have two or more custom name diffs in a marathon, then look for ones that make sense in a increasing scale:
walking - running / Slow - Fast / Cold - Hot / etc.
Adding more freedom to this will only cause only confusion, if this got changed then allow ALL or keep as it is, adding silly rules like if you have more than 2 or 3 diffs just create confusion, drama and unnecessary discussions at beatmap threads, since people always try to abuse this kind of rules, take as example the current custom diff names.
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Yes please
I had some doubts on whether I should make 2 diffs for my Genryuu, but then of of them needed to be called Normal, and the other one was free (Ongoing Daydream), so I decided to not do it (it was not the main reason though, just one of the factors)
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
Kibbleru

Natsu wrote:

I think rule its fine as it is, if you want to have two or more custom name diffs in a marathon, then look for ones that make sense in a increasing scale:
walking - running / Slow - Fast / Cold - Hot / etc.
Adding more freedom to this will only cause only confusion, if this got changed then allow ALL or keep as it is, adding silly rules like if you have more than 2 or 3 diffs just create confusion, drama and unnecessary discussions at beatmap threads, since people always try to abuse this kind of rules, take as example the current custom diff names.
hmm idk but there are always people out there trying to abuse these kind of rules e.e

we need something to stop abuse that is easily clarified.
you basically want them to just use common sense but... there has to be a more explicit way to word that lol
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,535 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
2 difficulties from two modes, both highest difficulty in their respect, can't I use custom names?
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
Kibbleru

neonat wrote:

2 difficulties from two modes, both highest difficulty in their respect, can't I use custom names?
thats also something that probably should be clarified
MBomb
MBomb
You can do that, but yeah it's not currently clarified in ranking criteria.
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Like I have with the map in my signature
Standard: Speechless
Taiko: Tongue Breaking Taiko
CtB: Farewell
Mania: Grand Finale

I'm quite sure this is fine. 2 mappers are BN, 2 others are (EX-)QAT
Claud
38 posts
Joined September 2014
Claud
Quote from the ranking Criteria:
... Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming.
I believe if 2 people made different mappings on a same Map, the names should be free.

However, if you did both diff, you have to specify what's the difference between one and another, true?

There has to be some way to identify which map is harder. You can't always depend on stars, since there have been many times i've seen maps which the hardest difficulty is the second one with most stars, not the first one.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
I really think it's fine as it is. The rule clearly states that Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming - If that's not the case the same rule as for full spreads applies, which means only your highest difficulty can have a custom name.

The naming rule as it is now was invented because the order of difficulties should always be clear, without depending on the star rating. Custom difficulty name means it's the highest diff. Same applies for your Marathon map: How does a player know which diff is harder, yours or pkk's? They only know from the star rating, but there should be an indicator in the diff names as well.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani

Deif wrote:

Take a look at this thread: t/420229

There's no need to push this one forward, since the all the rules and guidelines and possible new amendments are already being discussed. Just wait until everything's done!
P R O G R E S S
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,959 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu

Tess wrote:

Doesn't the rule contain exceptions for marathons? Even if the marathon diffs are in your set they should count towards the exception as well. This shouldn't be an issue.

I support this.
Please change the rule from "Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming" to "Marathon maps may use free naming".

Reasoning being that they could get the free naming by uploading sets themselves and honestly that's rather stupid.
I agree with Tess' reasoning behind that, it's rather stupid to force naming on a difficulty if it can be uploaded on its own to rank. Marathon sets are not intended to have a progression throughout any spread so indicating its name through a fitting diffname might be dumb under the current ruleset
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Topic Starter
Kibbleru

Desperate-kun wrote:

I really think it's fine as it is. The rule clearly states that Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming - If that's not the case the same rule as for full spreads applies, which means only your highest difficulty can have a custom name.

The naming rule as it is now was invented because the order of difficulties should always be clear, without depending on the star rating. Custom difficulty name means it's the highest diff. Same applies for your Marathon map: How does a player know which diff is harder, yours or pkk's? They only know from the star rating, but there should be an indicator in the diff names as well.
honestly, the new star rating is a pretty good indicator of spread by itself, and marathons arent intended to have spreads in the first place so what is the point of naming them to their respective diff names?

also

can u tell the difference in difficulty between two extra diffs without looking at star rating? or are you going to force me to rename one of them as 'light extra'

so yea
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
I'd support this change, with a single exception. Low-difficulty marathons.

Experienced players will know to look at a song's star rating for a proper approximation of difficulty. At that point, difficulty naming almost becomes a purely aesthetic choice, imo. I don't think there's any reason to be concerned for the names of difficult-ish maps, as I don't feel they're paid much attention to.

However, I find newer players tend to rely on difficulty naming as a judge of difficulty instead of the actual star rating, and this change might affect these people negatively.

I'd propose to allow free naming on any marathon map above ~3.75* (that's the cutoff before a H icon becomes an I icon, right? If not, whatever that value is) While I believe any map below that star rating should be at least somewhat indicative of difficulty.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete.
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