onoken - felys · forum

Nyxa

848 posts

Joined October 2013

Nyxa 2016-01-18T21:59:21+00:00

That's the plan.

Cherry Blossom

3,185 posts

Joined October 2011

Cherry Blossom 2016-01-18T22:11:12+00:00

zzzzzzzzzzz
Will be here to give some symmetrical love if it gets DQ'ed.

Irreversible

osu! Alumni

4,315 posts

Joined December 2011

Irreversible 2016-01-18T22:29:34+00:00

Hey Shiirn, I was checking this map and saw that Tess modded it, which reminded me of my own concerns I've had with it, which I think is a reason to pull it out of the qualified section until the map has improved more.

00:48:739 (1,2) - I don't quite see the sense behind this normal spacing here. If I compare to 00:38:072 (1,2) - , you have emphasized these so much more. Could I ask you to make it somewhat consistent, or is there a further logic behind it?
00:55:655 (4,5) - This still looks really messy, I am certain it will help the aesthetics of your map a lot if you moved it a bit further to the right.
01:00:239 (2) - The way this slider is ignoring the way stronger sound 01:00:405 - bothers me a bit and I suggest that you make it clickable, in order to create a better feeling.
01:01:405 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - I see what you tried to do here, but I have to admit that it doesn't really work that well in my opinion. You followed the main track so good, and now you switch over to something completely unrelevant at this point. It would be much better if you followed the main track again here. 00:57:905 (3) - Here for instance, you could have mapped the 1/4, if you want to have some 1/4 in your map.
01:03:655 (4,5,6) - Can I suggest this? 1) It improves how polished your map looks as well as improves the flow. 6 is way too close to the slider, and it looks sloppy. http://puu.sh/mALAm/08a82666da.jpg
01:12:072 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Same. There are way more dominant stuff which you could follow, I think this is not a good idea.
01:14:239 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - Adding such strong hitsounds is again contraproductive. The 1/4 is quite silent here, and you should at max keep some soft hitsound, to fully emphasize the dominant track. The 1/4 itself is fine, however.
01:21:905 (3,4,5) - I think this rhythm could be improved a lot, since it starts on a weak tick, together with this repeater and triplet at the end of the slider, it rhythmically doesn't make too much sense really.
01:24:989 (4,5,6) - A hitsound error, I'm sure. Suddenly is so loud, for no reason.
01:26:572 (1,2,3) - Nazi, but about being polished again. It's so close to 6 and it would not hurt to give it a bit more space so it looks less clustered.
01:27:739 (7) - Clap missing?
01:30:239 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5) - Again, I felt really overwhelmed by this sudden burst of hitsounds even though the only thing that escalates is the maintrack-beep-rhythm.
01:32:989 (4,5) - Same.
01:34:739 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,1,2,1,2) - I liked this a lot!
01:38:989 (4) - This hitsound pattern doesn't really follow the song does it?
01:40:905 (4,5) - There is too much stress which is not indicated by the song so I suggest to keep it a bit slower because well, it's on the edge of being overmapped (not quite sure about it), so having it so stressed isn't a good idea.
01:41:405 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Did you use the stream tool? It looks hell unpolished.
01:43:739 (5,6,7,8) - This does not sound right, especially because there is nothing loud 01:43:739 - - the stream starts 01:43:822 - .
02:00:072 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Mh, NC error?
The streams themselves look really bad .. (although I see what you tried, I suppose? Slightly bigger spacing when NC changes or so). You can do it way neater tho, .. use the stream tool, offered by oss. I'll gladly take a look at the stream part again if you polished it.
02:36:989 (4,5) - Spacing inconsistent.
03:20:739 (1,2,3) - Triangle inconsistent.
About the kiai.... it's generally fine but the inconsistencies could you just get rid off them?
03:34:072 (4,5,6) - 03:35:072 (2) - 03:36:655 (2,3) - 03:38:239 (5,6,7) - 03:44:739 (4,5,6) - 03:46:822 (3,4) -
04:53:989 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - Looks like you've run out of space.
05:09:739 (2) - Why suddenly this 2 point slider
05:10:072 (4,5,6,7,8) - boop
05:14:072 (3) - blanket
..and so on

Some additional notes (my personal suggestions):

00:43:405 (1) - How about decreasing the hitsound volume by 10% here? It would create a cool echoey sound with the drum hitwhistle before.
03:10:072 (3) - http://puu.sh/mAMl7/0fad3417b0.jpg This pattern would suit the song so well.

Good luck with further processing and ask if you need something!

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-01-18T22:34:46+00:00

Tess wrote:
Hey Shiirn.

Sorry to be a cockblocker but I don't think this map is ready for ranking yet.

HomeRhythms & Patterns
00:35:396 (1,2,3,4,5) - Are you sure you want to follow the exact same style of patterning that you did before this, considering this is the end of a phrase in the song? It's clearly different yet mapped the same other than a stacked triple. You could accentuate it somehow while still maintaining low spacing. If it was the exact same pattern than 3,4,5 would be to the left of 1, not beneath 00:35:229 (3) - . I think this is enough variance to emphasize the end of this phase of the beat pattern.
00:37:062 (1,2,3) - I know what you're doing here but (2) definitely needs to be higher, the angles go from sharp snap triangles to a soft round curve, which makes no sense here, since the music doesn't change. This is a compressed version of the previous combos. This is a visual change more than a direct playstyle change. All in all, the actual degree of the jumps here matter less than the visuals.
00:38:729 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - ^As mentioned here, you use jagged angles in the parts before this which is fine, since all mappable sounds are staccatos, but suddenly you go from jagged angles to soft angles, and it makes very little sense. The music hasn't changed. You mentioned your consistency in mapping which is generally true but that should go for this pattern as well, I feel. Try sharpening the angles here while keeping the same general shape. It'll make everything more consistent and overall more solid. Either that, or use soft curves for all the initial patterns since the staccatos get a sudden boost in treble in the second part of this section. This is a phase change and as such the patterning changes. It goes from straight geometric triangles to cascading bends that end on the same position. The final phase is back to a triangular shape again, to emphasize that it's the end of the phase - You're "back to triangles".
00:51:229 (3) - Why isn't this a 1/4 slider as well? This pattern felt rather disappointing in the buildup, consider making it a straight 1/4 slider angled towards 00:51:395 (1) - for consistency's, flavor's, and fun's sake. Also, the stacking here is suddenly offset by a few osupixels and it was noticing while playing, try fixing it to make the map overall cleaner. It's not large enough to be considered a stylistic thing. It isn't a 1/4 slider because the actual scritching noise is 1/8 and in my opinion, not loud enough to warrant a 1/4 slider being used on it. You have to be at 25% to even really notice it over the actual hitsound of the note even on soft. Also, yeah, stack is off, probably an oversight. Let's DQ and wait another week so I can harass a QAT for days on end.
00:56:645 (4) - ^Same here.
00:55:229 (3) - Here as well, though this is less of a problem. It could either be spaced out more to actually make it look like an overlap or stacked with 00:54:729 (1) - , right now it just looks sort of unclean. Of course this'd count for all similar patterns, same for above.
All of the stacking issues have been fixed multiple times and short of manually changing each and every note's position in the .osu file itself I can't imagine anyone can suggest any ways of doing so that I haven't already done. Do you really think I'm so inept that I haven't noticed some of them and tried to fix them?
01:01:395 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - You suddenly deviate from the rhythm here while it stays the same, I listened without hitsounds to doublecheck. 01:02:062 (1,2) - This is actually a whole 1/4 quint ending on 01:02:395 (3) - , I'm not sure why you skipped it other than for the sake of forming a square. I mean, it's not evil and forbidden, just inconsistent, and doesn't really follow the music since the music didn't change here. I'm not sure if you should change this but it's definitely worth considering making another pattern. Squares are kind of cliche, anyway. If this is what you want to hear I'll say it: I made the pattern because I thought it looked and played cool and it was a good place to do so, 3/4s of a way through a phase right when you're getting seriously bored with the same rhythm so it changes up a bit before going back on course.
I kind of noticed by now that there's a lot of undermapping going on here, which isn't really a problem but for reference's sake - I don't think that's really a reason to map inconsistently, if you're gonna follow your own rhythm then it's still best to do so in accordance with the atmosphere of the song. This goes with the whole "mapping different layers" thing I tried to do to keep it from being so incredibly repetitive so as to be boring. There's the beat everyone maps to nowadays (aka every single damn noise) and there are the overarching instruments (in the case where I "undermapped", the little high-pitched doot noises.) that lower difficulties are usually mapped to.
01:11:979 (9,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - It's good that you're being consistent with the squares, but this time the squares themselves aren't consistent. The shape is random and there's no change in the song, once again. Mostly starting with (1) you suddenly take another direction, there's no reason for this. If you're not changing the squares, then please at least try giving them consistent shapes across the board. If you are you'd have more room for mapping a decent quint here where it belongs. "There is no reason" is the exact reason that I did it this way. The same pattern is there and again, it's changed up 3/4ths of the way through the pattern so that it isn't the exact same. This song is OBSCENELY repetitive - to the point where even after hearing it hundreds of times i wouldn't be able to tell you how long certain phases lasted or what kind of actual patterns there are. It's all a damn blur.
01:33:312 (6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - In this case the flow is even more inconsistent than last time. If you do apply the above mods make sure to do it throughout the map to make things cleaner. Same as before. On the third part of the pattern of a set of four, it's in a different setup. It's a good place to change things. And the pattern itself is, again, different as it's expanding directly outward using the first slider's blanket angle rather than just the normal linear wiggle.
01:36:062 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - I think this would flow a lot smoother if you Ctrl + G'd 01:36:062 (1,2) - and 01:36:729 (1,2) - , and then placed 01:36:729 (1) - where the sliderhead of 01:36:895 (2) - currently is, and made a downwards angled straight slider where 01:36:729 (1) - currently is, like this. That would be how you would map this. This is a completely different pattern and it is not my pattern, it is yours. It is not something I'd do for this particular combination of beats and instruments. In my vision, the beats are pushing out and returning back towards the center, with the final, offbeat 1/1 reaching back inwards towards the center. This also allows me to start the piano facerolls in the bottom right.
I actually have no problem with the streams, but 01:58:729 (1) - starting from here, the music grows more intense, and, even if you don't want to change anything about the streams playwise (i.e. higher spacing or 1/4 sliders at the ends) I feel like you should at least make them visually different from before, to match the noticeable change in the music. If you're open to more changes I suggest increasing the spacing for all streams after the intensity change. This is something that I never really thought about because everything in this track sounds the damn same after you hear it a few hundred times. I've reconstructed the streams probably a half dozen times and probably lost sight of the small burst of intensity from that point until the end of the phase. Either way, they all play the same.
02:04:562 (4) - This could really do with an NC, both for aesthetic and reading improvements. The only aesthetic reason I can think of to do so is to emphasize those particular three beats as "HEY IT'S A TRIANGLE" when it's already pretty obvious when you play it that it is, surprisingly, a triangle. There are a lot in this map. And for reading, having the next notes be a slightly different color doesn't actually enhance reading all that much I find, especially when they're actually not all that cluttered.
02:15:229 (4) - ^If you do apply the above, make sure to make it consistent across the entire section.
02:21:229 (6) - You actually do increase the spacing here but it feels waaaaaay too late, and at this point the music has once again not noticeably changed so the increase in spacing makes far less sense. So basically what you're saying is that four piano facerolls should be spaced slightly more because I noticed four facerolls late that the music had actually gotten more intense. I mean, if it matters that much sure, but when it comes right down to it, they're all piano facerolls and I don't know about you but after like four years of xi they've lost any sort of real intensity impact. I'll be sure to find someone who's less jaded to piano facerolls to make sure I properly notice the intensity changes.
03:16:562 (2) - This is a highly accentuated 1/2 staccato, and instead you opt for a slider that ends on a strong beat, which I don't understand. I think you'd be better off replacing the sliderhead and tail with circles, it'd match the music a lot more without changing much of anything gameplay wise. Also justified variety is good. I might be the only person with this opinion nowadays, but sometimes I feel like ending a slider on a drumhit in a slow section works better as a means of emphasis as it "builds up" the drum and "releases" it at the end of the slider. Both in an aesthetic sense and a playing sense. I like playing these kinds of sliders. They happen a lot in my older maps, too, especially sakuzyo ones. This is purely a little thing I like to imagine as I'm fully aware that there is no such buildup when you actually whack a drum, but I guess if it's technically incorrect I might as well scrap that little indulgence of fun for me.
03:19:895 (4,5) - ^These aren't staccatos but the point is the same, they're accentuated drum notes that are left hanging by sliders that end on strong ticks. The spacing you use here would only add to the experience if you made them into circles instead, imo. This is, again, but for a slightly different reason, a choice I made because you hold down your key while playing them rather than hit it twice for both notes. The two sliders both start on strong hits and end on softer ones while the actual noise lasts the duration of the slider - I mean, to me that sounds like a perfect place to put some sliders! You don't always have to click beats to feel them.
03:49:895 (1,2,3,4,5) - This pattern is great but the linkage from before it is kind of meh. I mean it's playable by the players that this was designed for but 03:49:562 (2,3,4) - just feels like it was "kinda placed there", there doesn't seem to be any real purpose for it other than to not have silence. I'm 100% sure you could do better and make it lead into 03:49:895 (1) - a lot more smoothly. I don't know what the problem is with the 2,3,4 triplet as the start and end of it both have significant beats. Yes, (3) is overmapped but I decided to use a triplet there because, like near the start of the map, shit gets boring and this is another way of representing a transition between the two strong beats from different instruments. Yes, it's overmapped. Oh well. I'll be sure to avoid that kind of thing in the future.
Have to add that in the kiai you followed the drums very well, good job!
04:21:395 (1,2,3,4) - Is the incosistent spacing here done for internal symmetry? If so then that's fine, if not you may want to fix it. The inconsistent spacing here is intentional as it clearly shows that it is a mirrored pair of sliders rather than a rotated pattern.
04:29:395 (1) - This overlap is pretty horrible, it's probably best to either move it or align it with 04:28:562 (2) -
Can confirm, DQ-worthy overlap.
04:48:895 (4) - Not sure about the 1/4 slider here as well but you should at least consider it, it'd match the song really well imo but I'm not sure where you could place it without making major changes elsewhere. There is no slider here? I mean, i don't think it'd fit that well as I generally like to use sliders as a means of representing a beat that's there but not strong enough to be clicked, OR, in some exceptions, like later in this map, consistency and fun.
04:55:562 (5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Nice stream
05:02:395 (1,2,3,4) - This part is actually a crescendo, not sure why you decreased spacing here but honestly it's not worth changing. I just wanted to point this out for future reference, it's always more fitting to follow crescendos with spacing/pressure increases, for obvious reasons. The crescendo is going up the the volume goes down. The entire slider goes down, so it shrinks with the volume. I'm bad at piano facerolls.
05:14:729 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Really love this pattern, not sure how I feel about the last slider but I can't think of anything better so good job.
05:31:895 (6) - Why not make this a jump upwards instead of better linkage? Try placing it around x348 y21 and see how that feels. I chose not to do so as it is the end of a pattern and phase in the music and doesn't require any special emphasis
05:34:562 (4,1) - I know what you were trying to do here, and I love the idea, it fits the song perfectly, but I'm not sure if it's too much of a spike or not. Considering someone already FC'd it (I think? didn't watch the replay) I'll assume it's fine, but it's definitely worth thinking twice (or even three times) about this pattern and whether you really want this massive of a spike for this kind of song. One of the theories I'm famous for helping to cement in the minds of all players everywhere is that "Jumps are way easier and way cooler if they end on a slider" - I've not heard a single person who reached this point in the map do anything but end it very powerfully. The response if they missed it was "Awww, shucks" because they'll get an S even if they sliderbreak and they won't lose out on that much score/pp/combo/whatever (another reason why i didn't want a 20-40second long outro: if you miss the slider you're going to be really damn salty that you need to spend 20 seconds of shame) and when they do land it, it feels fucking great.
Hitsounding
Nothing wrong to me, well done!

SummaryNone of the points you really mentioned in your disclaimer earlier seemed like much of an issue to me, I tried following your style with my modding and honestly most of it was fine, the map is just, so much in need of polishing, even if you applied all of my mods I feel like one or two additional QATmods or 3-4 more BN mods would definitely improve it still. This map isn't in its highest quality state yet and it'd be a shame if it were ranked being less than everything it can be. I like this map so I hope you'll fix things and improve it if it gets unranked.

Good luck! ~

Irreversible wrote:
Hey Shiirn, I was checking this map and saw that Tess modded it, which reminded me of my own concerns I've had with it, which I think is a reason to pull it out of the qualified section until the map has improved more.

00:48:739 (1,2) - I don't quite see the sense behind this normal spacing here. If I compare to 00:38:072 (1,2) - , you have emphasized these so much more. Could I ask you to make it somewhat consistent, or is there a further logic behind it? As the first introduction of the instrument, it deserved a bit more oomph as there is literally like two things making any sort of sound at that point. Later on, when there are more instruments and things are stronger, it's less important, to the point where it gets ignored. Pretty quickly, apparently.
00:55:655 (4,5) - This still looks really messy, I am certain it will help the aesthetics of your map a lot if you moved it a bit further to the right.Maybe I'll get around to making it an even BIGGER jump from 2 to 3 so that people can complain about that instead.
01:00:239 (2) - The way this slider is ignoring the way stronger sound 01:00:405 - bothers me a bit and I suggest that you make it clickable, in order to create a better feeling. I mentioned in Tess' response how I sometimes intentionally have a drumhit be a slider ENDING to allow a player to hold the button into it and release. This mostly comes from how I personally play this circleclicking game so blah blah look at the response up there.
01:01:405 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - I see what you tried to do here, but I have to admit that it doesn't really work that well in my opinion. You followed the main track so good, and now you switch over to something completely unrelevant at this point. It would be much better if you followed the main track again here. Responded to in tess' post.00:57:905 (3) - Here for instance, you could have mapped the 1/4, if you want to have some 1/4 in your map.
01:03:655 (4,5,6) - Can I suggest this? 1) It improves how polished your map looks as well as improves the flow. 6 is way too close to the slider, and it looks sloppy. http://puu.sh/mALAm/08a82666da.jpg Yeah, sure, i'll get around to it later.
01:12:072 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Same. There are way more dominant stuff which you could follow, I think this is not a good idea.
01:14:239 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - Adding such strong hitsounds is again contraproductive. The 1/4 is quite silent here, and you should at max keep some soft hitsound, to fully emphasize the dominant track. The 1/4 itself is fine, however. There are actual drum hits in the music where the hitnormals are. If they're good enough for the track, why are they bad hitsounds? If you ask me, a hitsound overpowering the actual instrument from the song isn't cause for alarm. It's in the song, so it's clearly following the song. It's like humming a piece of music you like.
01:21:905 (3,4,5) - I think this rhythm could be improved a lot, since it starts on a weak tick, together with this repeater and triplet at the end of the slider, it rhythmically doesn't make too much sense really. This follows as a slightly more advanced example of my "silly little funtime habit" of ending sliders on strong beats, but if it's really that confusuing to have a kickback slider instead of a 1/1 one then sure, i'll get around to fixing it maybe later this month.
01:24:989 (4,5,6) - A hitsound error, I'm sure. Suddenly is so loud, for no reason. Sure, 4 and 6 can be called errors. I think they fit fine, but if it's an error it should be fixed.
01:26:572 (1,2,3) - Nazi, but about being polished again. It's so close to 6 and it would not hurt to give it a bit more space so it looks less clustered. This is slightly less horrible than the overlap Tess pointed out.
01:27:739 (7) - Clap missing? Sure, added.
01:30:239 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5) - Again, I felt really overwhelmed by this sudden burst of hitsounds even though the only thing that escalates is the maintrack-beep-rhythm. This is the end of a phase of the song. It's the last burst before it goes back into the same boring rhythm again for another minute. If you want me to make ANOTHER normal-hitnormal that is silenced EVEN MORE for these sections, I'll get around to it later.
01:32:989 (4,5) - Same. Same
01:34:739 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,1,2,1,2) - I liked this a lot!
01:38:989 (4) - This hitsound pattern doesn't really follow the song does it? This is a hitsound oversight. It's gone, whatever.
01:40:905 (4,5) - There is too much stress which is not indicated by the song so I suggest to keep it a bit slower because well, it's on the edge of being overmapped (not quite sure about it), so having it so stressed isn't a good idea. And to think I've been told it's spaced too much when it was actually spaced too much in the past.
01:41:405 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Did you use the stream tool? It looks hell unpolished. I've remade these streams so many times I can't begin to tell you when they were made or what language they were coded in.[color]
01:43:739 (5,6,7,8) - This does not sound right, especially because there is nothing loud 01:43:739 - - the stream starts 01:43:822 - . [/color'>
02:00:072 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Mh, NC error? This follows the same NC pattern as the rest of the facerolls.
The streams themselves look really bad .. (although I see what you tried, I suppose? Slightly bigger spacing when NC changes or so). You can do it way neater tho, .. use the stream tool, offered by oss. I'll gladly take a look at the stream part again if you polished it.
02:36:989 (4,5) - Spacing inconsistent. As it is the end of a slider, spacing inconsistency is also completely irrelevant. Depending on the player, their cursor could be anywhere within a hundred pixels of the slider's actual ending.
03:20:739 (1,2,3) - Triangle inconsistent. I blame stacking. Let's blame stacking. Whatever, I'll fix it later.
About the kiai.... it's generally fine but the inconsistencies could you just get rid off them? people don't bother reading... why even bother responding to anything when it's clearly nobody actually READS THIS AND JUST LISTS OFF THINGS IVE ANSWERED BEFORE aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
03:34:072 (4,5,6) - 03:35:072 (2) - 03:36:655 (2,3) - 03:38:239 (5,6,7) - 03:44:739 (4,5,6) - 03:46:822 (3,4) -
04:53:989 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - Looks like you've run out of space.
05:09:739 (2) - Why suddenly this 2 point slider
05:10:072 (4,5,6,7,8) - boop
05:14:072 (3) - blanket
..and so on

Some additional notes (my personal suggestions):

00:43:405 (1) - How about decreasing the hitsound volume by 10% here? It would create a cool echoey sound with the drum hitwhistle before.
03:10:072 (3) - http://puu.sh/mAMl7/0fad3417b0.jpg This pattern would suit the song so well.

All in all, I hope this helps you understand what I'm doing here.

Since this is DQ'd, again, because it's far easier to read through half a damn mod and pull the trigger on a DQ to encourage "discussion" rather than let the modder actually address any questions, all the people who promise to mod this can get around to it whenever they get around to it, as no matter how much effort I want to put in I am basically forced into following other people's schedules and whims.

If you think I'm rushing things because I'm fully willing to sit down and spend a dozen hours over a course of a week working on a SINGLE song, yet find myself irrevocably stonewalled by other people's schedules who might get around to it "sometime next week" or "later this month", then you're free to think so.

This is a good chance for everyone who wants to take their free shot at me do so, as I'm not touching this map's patterns or streams again short of Buddha himself suggesting a way to make stacking actually stick.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-01-18T22:56:07+00:00

Also don't wish me good luck when you know exactly how hard I bug the shit out of people and put actual effort into my maps even if they end up shit. I'd love to be respected enough to not be given stock phrases when I like to think mappers and modders should have at the very least friendly relationships.

Nyxa

848 posts

Joined October 2013

Nyxa 2016-01-18T22:58:46+00:00

Shiirn wrote:
All in all, I hope this helps you understand what I'm doing here. Yeah, you're refusing to improve your map no matter how thoroughly its flaws are explained.

Since this is DQ'd, again, because it's far easier to read through half a damn mod and pull the trigger on a DQ to encourage "discussion" rather than let the modder actually address any questions Actually, because the map has issues that make it lack in quality that you refuse to acknowledge, all the people who promise to mod this can get around to it whenever they get around to it So you can shoot down every single suggestion again?, as no matter how much effort I want to put in I am basically forced into following other people's schedules and whims.

Yes, because you're trying to make the map ranked. That's what ranking a map is. You're putting the map up to meet certain global standards. If you want it to follow your own standards, you're free to leave it in unranked, but that's not what you want. That's why we have the modding process, and that's why we have the RC. If you want your movie to sell you can't fill it with niche things that only you like, even if you know you could do differently and have it accepted by public standard, it won't be until you make the changes required for it to meet those standards, or you can choose to stay niche, which is fine, but you shouldn't blame the quality standards other people set when you put your map up to be evaluated according to those standards. Sorry, but your logic is backwards here.

If you think I'm rushing things because I'm fully willing to sit down and spend a dozen hours over a course of a week working on a SINGLE song If someone spent 6 months working on the crappiest map ever, does that mean we should just rank it because they put a lot of effort into it? No. If your map isn't as high quality as it could be then it should be improved, and the amount of effort you've already put into it is no reason to not put more effort into it to make it even better., yet find myself irrevocably stonewalled by other people's schedules who might get around to it "sometime next week" or "later this month", then you're free to think so. Other than the fact I never said you're rushing this map, there's also the fact that, yes, people have their own lives and schedules, and if you want a favor from them you'll have to wait until they have time to give it. I think the one stonewalling here is you.

This is a good chance for everyone who wants to take their free shot at me do so, as I'm not touching this map's patterns or streams again short of Buddha himself suggesting a way to make stacking actually stick.

I think this is very silly, everyone else is asked to meet the quality requirements and when they don't, people get upset. And yeah, there's plenty of people who'll say "But I like this map!" - that happens on almost any map that gets complained about, and, for the record, I like this map myself. That's why I want to see it improved. If you disagree with all my mods then that's fine but I feel your reasoning is unsubstantiated (albeit wordy, as I'dve expected) and that you simply refuse to acknowledge that things could be improved.

In the end it's up to you, I don't want to raise a fuss over it but I wanted to share my thoughts on this post at least.

Shiirn wrote:
Also don't wish me good luck when you know exactly how hard I bug the shit out of people and put actual effort into my maps even if they end up shit. I'd love to be respected enough to not be given stock phrases when I like to think mappers and modders should have at the very least friendly relationships.

"Good luck" is a normal thing to wish to anyone who's attempting to do anything, whether they're putting hard work into it or not. Giving such a response to that is simply rude and making an extra post for it is unnecessary as well.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-01-18T23:12:07+00:00

If you think my responses are unsubstantiated then we're clearly at odds because I seriously believe everything i said. I'm happy to fix "horrible overlaps" and minor pattern errors all day but when you ask me to remap an entire pattern I'm perfectly happy with (and, as irreversible said, he reallly liked) I'm probably going to say no.

Where have I ever said that I think the map is perfect? There are always ways to pin down and polish a map, I've said so myself on many occasions, but there reaches a certain point where everyone needs to sit down and go "okay. it's fine." and for sure that point varies massively for everyone.

felys has quality issues. it's got a weirdly spaced introduction section that is based on patterns instead of emphasis, it's got large variances within its own patterns because I got really bored mapping the exact same rhythm for the seventieth time and decided to do something more interesting and fun. A lot of sections just randomly spring into another pattern entirely to make sure you're awake.

(And honestly, this map would be obscenely boring if I didn't take creative liberties in a lot of places, you should have seen the first draft, I literally combobroke due to losing focus out of boredom rather than any actual challenge)

I am satisfied with how felys is right now. I can always go in and make it better, clean up the streams for the fourteenth ~~****~~ing time, I can always go and make sure all the triangles are perfect and try for the ELEVENTH time to fix the stacking issues in the beginning sections, but it doesn't change the fact that as of right now I am perfectly satisfied with it.

If you aren't, you're welcome to come in and do my polishing work for me. But since I personally am satisfied, I try to get it ranked. It's the same as every mapper tries to do, so I don't know why you're treating me like I'm spouting bullshit to refute your claims so i can get it ranked and get, what, attention? don't even answer that.

I've already applied all of the aesthetic or small improvements suggested by both of your posts (except remapping the streams, ~~****~~ that this week). I'll apply them later whenever the BSS stops kicking my ass.

Nyxa

848 posts

Joined October 2013

Nyxa 2016-01-18T23:32:05+00:00

I don't think you're spouting bullshit, I just disagree with your reasoning, which is fine. It's your map. I just wanted to explain that I'm not trying to "Force you to bend to my whims", I'm holding you to a certain standard, especially because I know you're an experienced mapper. But that last post of yours was honest and if you feel that way then that's fine.

Also on a side note, I don't know about other modders but what I like/dislike is pretty irrelevant when it comes to modding. As you've probably noticed I've also given plenty of suggestions for patterns that I like, because, as I said, I like this map. I just wanted to see improvement. But the streams aren't a massive issue anyway so if you want to keep them I'm not bothered by that. It's not my map, anyway.

And this is why I feel "Good luck" applies, not because I'm discrediting your efforts but because I hope they result in something worthwhile.

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2016-01-19T00:52:30+00:00

Global standards are constantly being pushed. That's how new styles and mapping philosophies are introduced and developed. I think its fair to say that a pattern that plays "differently" isn't necessarily a pattern that plays "poorly". You may disagree with a pattern, but you should also ask yourself whether your disagreement is based off your personal standard, or a global standard. Basically it's the difference between saying "I find this pattern awkward to play" and being able to say "people will find this pattern awkward to play" or something similar.

@Shiirn - This map is indeed pushing it in terms of how you deal with following different instruments, and your intentional inconsistencies. Unfortunately it seems people either aren't open-minded enough, or just aren't ready yet. It's just something you'll have to swallow when you try to introduce something different into the meta. Not everyone likes change.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-01-19T02:01:59+00:00

Because of how the map was made, and the time period it was made in, I wanted to keep as much of the initial thought processes I had while mapping this. It's clear now that this kind of thing makes for a map that is decidedly hideous and objectively unrankable for Irreversible. This map was always a particular one-off before I went back to my usual habit of mapping whatever triggered 'the itch' and turned out decent.

No matter how good your map is, there are always people who will be able to offer agreeable improvements. Sometimes, a big list of them. And their reasoning and justification being given priority over the mapper's is a huge problem for me as I feel downright disgusted to be fillibustered out of my own map's ranking process.

To fix a lot of this map's lack of polish, I'd need to remap entire sections and that kills the original intent of this map. (And my brain because I'll stab myself before I listen to that same piano faceroll for the seven hundredth time) Yes, I am staunchly defending things because I don't want to fix them because I had what I thought was a perfectly reasonable setup going. But if I am going to be

Irreversible wrote:
16:16 Irreversible: I gave my input and it's still standing
16:16 Irreversible: if I don't see improvement, I'll be there {context: to disqualify the map} again

dealing with that, I'll make the calm and conscious choice to let this map go.

I never really liked felys anyway.

That is assuming, of course, that Irreversible does not only wish for me to fix the outright errors that exist (such as the hitsound oversights and stacking issues) and is willing to re-qualify after those small changes are done.

But given the reception I've gotten from him, I'm doubting that is the case.

Faust

osu! Alumni

4,783 posts

Joined January 2009

Faust 2016-01-19T03:10:45+00:00

Chinese proverb says: when people work with one mind, even the mountains can be moved.

Take it slowly. Take some time if necessary.
People do care and will tell you advice in goodwill on their part even if you don't want it and will not accept it. Vise-versa.

Either way, not everything is personal. Assume nothing. Consider everything.

Shiro

Global Moderator

4,984 posts

Joined May 2009

Shiro 2016-01-20T19:55:36+00:00

elo i am fox

2016-01-20 18:46 Shiro: okay so
2016-01-20 18:46 Shiro: 00:11:896 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - this is very intrusive without proper volume play
2016-01-20 18:46 Shiro: if you want i can add the lines for you
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiro: and you just copypaste the code
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiirn: i mean
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiirn: if you tell me what you're thinking of doing i can do it myself. are we talking like
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiirn: sliding between 10/15/20?
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiirn: or 20/15/10 for the three hits and resetting to 20 for the next
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiro: for every new combo
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiro: reduce volume by 2%
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiro: take another 5% off each section for the slider head
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiro: and silence the sliderend
2016-01-20 18:47 Shiro: is what I'd do
2016-01-20 18:48 Shiirn: mmm so like
2016-01-20 18:48 Shiirn: 20/15/5/18/13/5/16/11/5/14/9/5
2016-01-20 18:48 Shiro: yup
2016-01-20 18:48 Shiro: that should work
2016-01-20 18:48 Shiirn: k
2016-01-20 18:48 Shiirn: let's do it
2016-01-20 18:48 Shiirn: the sliderslide is already muted
2016-01-20 18:49 Shiirn: for these notes
2016-01-20 18:50 Shiirn: k
2016-01-20 18:50 Shiro: I wish it was possible to mute the sliderends entirely, it would work well here
2016-01-20 18:50 Shiirn: let's see how it sounds
2016-01-20 18:50 Shiirn: i mean
2016-01-20 18:50 Shiirn: i could use a soft-hitnormal 44b
2016-01-20 18:50 Shiirn: (blank)
2016-01-20 18:50 Shiirn: but isnt that unrankable
2016-01-20 18:50 Shiro: RC says you can't silence both sliderslide and sliderend
2016-01-20 18:51 Shiirn: ACTION blinks
2016-01-20 18:51 Shiirn: k
2016-01-20 18:51 Shiirn: should i do the same to the second set?
2016-01-20 18:51 Shiro: 00:22:563 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - do the same for those obviously haha
2016-01-20 18:51 Shiro: yes
2016-01-20 18:51 Shiro: aaaa
2016-01-20 18:51 Shiirn: yeee
2016-01-20 18:51 Shiro: it would be so perfect to silence the sliderend here
2016-01-20 18:51 Shiirn: THANK GOD FOR HOTKEYS
2016-01-20 18:52 Shiro: you could volume change past 00:33:396 (1) - but it's not necessary
2016-01-20 18:53 Shiirn: since they follow the piano at that point
2016-01-20 18:53 Shiirn: and the piano stays roughly the same volume
2016-01-20 18:53 Shiro: I'd do it to follow the pitch
2016-01-20 18:53 Shiro: but... that's me
2016-01-20 18:53 Shiirn: fuck that
2016-01-20 18:54 Shiirn: the entire map would be a mass of green lines
2016-01-20 18:54 Shiro: you know I like to do that
2016-01-20 18:54 Shiro: LOL
2016-01-20 18:54 Shiro: mind if I drop a few comments about the map too ?
2016-01-20 18:54 Shiirn: no, just be aware i might disagree
2016-01-20 18:54 Shiro: you are free to
2016-01-20 18:54 Shiro: I'm not forcing you to change anything
2016-01-20 18:54 Shiirn: felys is a special case for me because i mapped it while banned and i was "recovering" the mapper mindset
2016-01-20 18:55 Shiirn: this is why it gets better as it goes on
2016-01-20 18:55 Shiirn: because i recovered my skills
2016-01-20 18:55 Shiro: 00:38:395 (3,4,5) - methinks you should move those up left to havea bigger jump into 00:38:729 (1) - so far everywhere in this section there have been "jumps" into it like 00:36:562 (1,1,1) -
2016-01-20 18:55 Shiirn: mmm
2016-01-20 18:55 Shiirn: true
2016-01-20 18:55 Shiro: and it continues, the only one that isn't a jump is 00:39:229 (1) -
2016-01-20 18:55 Shiro: er
2016-01-20 18:55 Shiro: 00:38:729 (1) -
2016-01-20 18:55 Shiirn: i didnt notice cuz its a pattern reset
2016-01-20 18:56 Shiirn: so i modifed that pattern a bit
2016-01-20 18:56 Shiirn: 00:38:062 (1) - is a bit further out
2016-01-20 18:57 Shiirn: 00:38:229 (2) - this is stacked on top of 00:38:729 (1)-
2016-01-20 18:57 Shiirn: 00:38:395 (3,4,5) - is up and to the left of where it was before
2016-01-20 18:57 Shiirn: so that the triple and 1 are equidistant to 2
2016-01-20 18:57 Shiro: sounds good
2016-01-20 18:59 Shiirn: if you want to suggest volume play in any sections where you think it'd be really good
2016-01-20 18:59 Shiirn: feel free
2016-01-20 19:00 Shiirn: volume play isn't that hard to implement, i'm just so completely jaded and unaffected by the music in this track at this point i can't really tell what's what
2016-01-20 19:00 Shiro: 00:43:562 (2,3) - why not jumps for those
2016-01-20 19:00 Shiirn: because i felt like the piano was really soft there
2016-01-20 19:00 Shiirn: especailly with the other noises overwhelming it enough at that point
2016-01-20 19:00 Shiro: I feel it the other way around, but it's up to interpretation
2016-01-20 19:01 Shiirn: like when you listen
2016-01-20 19:01 Shiirn: the piano takes backstage to the noises introduced there
2016-01-20 19:01 Shiirn: but you've been doing the piano click pattern the entire time and it fits here too
2016-01-20 19:01 Shiirn: so that's why 1/4 sliders
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiro: 00:44:062 (1) - crescendo starting here would be pretty nice
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiirn: but to keep the click pattern yet have players focusing on the main notes, smaller spacing
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiirn: crescendo means what
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiirn: increasing volume?
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiro: yes
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiirn: in sets of three i presume
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiro: 00:49:395 (1) - until here
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiirn: what volumes do you think
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiro: with every new combo yeah
2016-01-20 19:02 Shiirn: it starts at 35
2016-01-20 19:03 Shiro: let me try out
2016-01-20 19:04 Shiro: +2% every new combo
2016-01-20 19:04 Shiirn: maybe topping out at 50 at 00:49:395- ?
2016-01-20 19:04 Shiro: up to 55
2016-01-20 19:04 Shiirn: maybe topping out at 50 at 00:49:395 - ?
2016-01-20 19:04 Shiirn: or 55
2016-01-20 19:05 Shiro: bonus would be 00:46:395 (3,4,5) - decrescendo on those three but that would be really tedious lol
2016-01-20 19:05 Shiirn: so?
2016-01-20 19:05 Shiirn: lol
2016-01-20 19:06 Shiirn: 45->40->35?
2016-01-20 19:06 Shiro: should be 43 at that point
2016-01-20 19:06 Shiirn: barely noticable but whatever its done lel
2016-01-20 19:06 Shiro: i used 43 -> 35 -> 27
2016-01-20 19:07 Shiirn: oh
2016-01-20 19:07 Shiirn: i started the entire section with 37 instead of 35
2016-01-20 19:07 Shiirn: oh well
2016-01-20 19:07 Shiro: 00:49:062 (3,4,5) - not needed here because I can't hear the piano decreasing in volume
2016-01-20 19:07 Shiirn: ill just scale it
2016-01-20 19:07 Shiro: you'll reach 57 if you start with 37
2016-01-20 19:08 Shiirn: 00:48:729 - i end up with 55 here
2016-01-20 19:08 Shiirn: 00:49:395 - instead of here
2016-01-20 19:08 Shiirn: which works fine if you ask me
2016-01-20 19:08 Shiro: it does that's where i have 55
2016-01-20 19:08 Shiro: o.O
2016-01-20 19:08 Shiirn: ...
2016-01-20 19:09 Shiirn: dudududududu [xfiles theme]
2016-01-20 19:09 Shiro: lol
2016-01-20 19:09 Shiro: not sure if it's intended but 00:51:229 (3) - is (-1,-3) off
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiirn: yeah i fixed those
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiirn: they were unstacke
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiirn: d
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiro: oh
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiro: do i need to update the map ?
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiirn: because things love unstacking at random and i have no idea why
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiro: please
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiro: the editor
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiirn: uh no
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiro: ATE A NOTE
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiirn: i never actually
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiro: on tengaku
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiirn: SUBMITTED the changes
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiro: ill point out the ones i see just say "done" if you had fixed them already i guess
2016-01-20 19:10 Shiirn: i just remembered irre whining about them so i fixed them while waiting for your deductions
2016-01-20 19:11 Shiirn: ok
2016-01-20 19:11 Shiro: i assume 00:54:729 (1,3) - is fixed too ?
2016-01-20 19:11 Shiro: this one is the one that caught my eye most
2016-01-20 19:11 Shiirn: yeah
2016-01-20 19:11 Shiro: 00:56:229 (2,4,5) - fixed ?
2016-01-20 19:12 Shiirn: underneath the previous? yeah
2016-01-20 19:12 Shiro: 00:56:729 (5,1) - this one looks on purpose
2016-01-20 19:12 Shiro: kind of like what i did in tengaku
2016-01-20 19:12 Shiirn: as it is right now
2016-01-20 19:12 Shiirn: the 5 needs to be manually stacked
2016-01-20 19:12 Shiirn: so that 4 is under 2
2016-01-20 19:12 Shiro: can you reduce stack leniency ?
2016-01-20 19:13 Shiirn: stack leniency that stops 1/4 from stacking is unrankable
2016-01-20 19:13 Shiro: ah man thank god you're not one of those who new combo blue ticks
2016-01-20 19:14 Shiirn: i do later in the map. like twice. sorry.
2016-01-20 19:14 Shiro: I hate you.
2016-01-20 19:14 Shiirn: They're the only possible place to put them there!
2016-01-20 19:14 Shiirn: ;_;
2016-01-20 19:15 Shiro: 01:19:229 (3,4) - improper blanket !
2016-01-20 19:15 Shiro: also 01:19:229 (3,5) - overlap
2016-01-20 19:15 Shiirn: it blankets the 5 not the 4!
2016-01-20 19:15 Shiirn: (no really it does)
2016-01-20 19:15 Shiro: ... I can't see it
2016-01-20 19:16 Shiirn:

2016-01-20 19:16 Shiirn: ok its off
2016-01-20 19:16 Shiirn: fine ill fix
2016-01-20 19:16 Shiro: all i can see is this http://puu.sh/mD34i/833cc56a8c.jpg
2016-01-20 19:16 Shiro: and then im like
2016-01-20 19:16 Shiro: plz
2016-01-20 19:17 Shiirn: ok fixed
2016-01-20 19:17 Shiirn: ill nee dto do it for the other one too
2016-01-20 19:18 Shiro: 01:21:062 (7) - this slider irks me
2016-01-20 19:18 Shiro: 01:21:229 - is a very strong beat in the song (you even hitsounded it) but lands on a sliderend
2016-01-20 19:18 Shiirn: ?
2016-01-20 19:18 Shiirn: ive gone over that before
2016-01-20 19:18 Shiirn: ;_;
2016-01-20 19:18 Shiro: it happens
2016-01-20 19:18 Shiro: happened to me in tengaku
2016-01-20 19:18 Shiirn: Sometimes i like having sliders end on drums because it lets it "release"
2016-01-20 19:18 Shiro: then i realized that it would be better to keep my pattern
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiirn: like
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiirn: i do that
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiirn: A LOT
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiro: well if you did it on purpose it's fine
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiirn: i did it a lot in my sakuzyo and dnb maps
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiro: but I'm very anal about that kind of thing haha
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiro: so I'll point it out, if it's planned then it's alright
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiirn: yeah
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiirn: just different tastes
2016-01-20 19:19 Shiirn: im kind of weird about what i enjoy playing i guess
2016-01-20 19:20 Shiro: 01:21:395 (1,3) - stack ?
2016-01-20 19:20 Shiirn: they aren't? fuck
2016-01-20 19:20 Shiirn: they are now
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiirn: do you really think 01:21:895 (3) - is bad because it's a kick slider instead of a 1/1
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiirn: people seem to hate it
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiro: don't ever fucking change it
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiro: it works wonderfully
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiirn: ok
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiro: that's the best way you had to naturally change the direction
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiirn: #fuckthehaters
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiro: without introducing jerky points in the map that would not fit the song in any way
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiirn: yeah
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiirn: i wanted it to change direction and was like
2016-01-20 19:21 Shiirn: fuck how
2016-01-20 19:22 Shiirn: i didnt want to have one of those weird ass "goes back to the start" bendy sliders you see in wub maps because that doesnt fit
2016-01-20 19:22 Shiro: the 1/2 fits well
2016-01-20 19:22 Shiro: because it continues the son't density at that point
2016-01-20 19:22 Shiro: 1/1 would have broken the rhythm
2016-01-20 19:22 Shiirn: mmk
2016-01-20 19:23 Shiro: also idk if you realize it but 01:21:395 (1,2,3) - has wonderful flow
2016-01-20 19:23 Shiirn: i realize it
2016-01-20 19:23 Shiirn: but people seem to hate it
2016-01-20 19:23 Shiro: the slider doesn't quite fit in the cone rule
2016-01-20 19:23 Shiro: but it works nevertheless
2016-01-20 19:23 Shiro: actually it kind of does
2016-01-20 19:23 Shiirn: especially cuz i needed to have something bend into
2016-01-20 19:23 Shiirn: 01:22:729 (1) - this weird ass thin
2016-01-20 19:24 Shiro: 01:22:729 (1,2) - id make those two closer to each other though I got confused at first thinking it was 1/2
2016-01-20 19:24 Shiirn: mm
2016-01-20 19:24 Shiirn: sure why not
2016-01-20 19:24 Shiirn: inb4 irre "01:21:729 (2,2) - overlap"
2016-01-20 19:25 Shiro: also
2016-01-20 19:25 Shiro: 01:22:729 (1) - id bend the end a bit less
2016-01-20 19:25 Shiro: so that the flow 01:23:062 (2,3) - is more abrupt
2016-01-20 19:25 Shiro: which would work better with what you're doing imo
2016-01-20 19:25 Shiirn: so you want the bend
2016-01-20 19:25 Shiirn: clockwise or counter in this case
2016-01-20 19:25 Shiro: clockwide
2016-01-20 19:25 Shiro: I'd say 10-15°
2016-01-20 19:25 Shiro: almost vertical
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: then i need to move 2 again
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: (but not vertical because 0 and 90 are boring)
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: so it points directly at it
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: yeah
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: but if you do that
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: you'll have pure counterflow between 01:23:062 (2,3) -
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: 2->3 is a bigger jump but WHO CARES
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: which isolates (3) more by making it a jerk point
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: i mean
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: did you read my post about flow
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: if it's big enough
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: i can actually
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: reverse 3
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: it contains nothing you don't know but
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: since its flow to 4,5
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: is the same
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: bad idea
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: whether it's ctrl g'd or not
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: reversing 3 would ruin the jerk point
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiirn: mmm
2016-01-20 19:26 Shiro: which works well in the song
2016-01-20 19:27 Shiro: given your rhythm and the hitsounding
2016-01-20 19:27 Shiirn: its just too much of a jerk point atm
2016-01-20 19:28 Shiro: up to you
2016-01-20 19:28 Shiro: that's the way I'd see it work
2016-01-20 19:28 Shiirn: oh well
2016-01-20 19:28 Shiirn: let's just leave it being a fairly big jump and if anyone complains fuck 'em
2016-01-20 19:29 Shiirn: 01:24:395 (2) - is even bigger anyawy
2016-01-20 19:29 Shiirn: lel
2016-01-20 19:29 Shiro: this is a purely visual suggestion but
2016-01-20 19:29 Shiro: 01:23:729 (5,6) - you should make those two the same slider
2016-01-20 19:29 Shiirn: i guess sure
2016-01-20 19:29 Shiro: it's a thing people complained about in tengaku
2016-01-20 19:29 Shiro: that i used different sliders in the same combo and pattern
2016-01-20 19:29 Shiirn: done to both
2016-01-20 19:30 Shiro: see 01:24:395 (2,3) - is the same feeling as 01:23:062 (2,3) -
2016-01-20 19:30 Shiro: except I'd exchange the place between 01:25:062 (5,6) -
2016-01-20 19:30 Shiro: right now you have a very jerk motion (big jump up, slider down, big jump up into slider, stack, big jump down into slider, big jump left)
2016-01-20 19:30 Shiirn: i could do something like...
2016-01-20 19:31 Shiirn: fucking
2016-01-20 19:31 Shiirn: puush
2016-01-20 19:32 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/mD48s/8ce14d376a.jpg
2016-01-20 19:32 Shiro: turn 5 the other way
2016-01-20 19:32 Shiro: so you have a circle motion between 3,5 and 6
2016-01-20 19:32 Shiro: that leads into the next triple
2016-01-20 19:32 Shiirn: that makes 4,5 be very close to 3's end but
2016-01-20 19:32 Shiirn: eh sure
2016-01-20 19:32 Shiirn: works fine
2016-01-20 19:34 Shiro: (also leads to 01:25:895 (1,2,3) - better)
2016-01-20 19:34 Shiirn: ye
2016-01-20 19:34 Shiro: 01:27:229 (3) - the blanket
2016-01-20 19:34 Shiro: (yes it's off)
2016-01-20 19:34 Shiro: trust the OCD
2016-01-20 19:35 Shiirn: its the same slider as before
2016-01-20 19:35 Shiirn: so its off a bit yeah
2016-01-20 19:35 Shiirn: fixed
2016-01-20 19:36 Shiro: 01:28:062 (1,2,3,4) - this is the biggest problem I've found
2016-01-20 19:36 Shiro: this motion doesn't work imo
2016-01-20 19:36 Shiro: logically, all those should be jumps
2016-01-20 19:36 Shiro: but 01:28:395 (2,3) - isn't a jump and that makes this play really weirdly
2016-01-20 19:36 Shiirn: see like
2016-01-20 19:36 Shiirn: the thing is
2016-01-20 19:36 Shiirn: previously
2016-01-20 19:36 Shiirn: i used the spaced triples and sliders
2016-01-20 19:36 Shiirn: to force "smaller jumps"
2016-01-20 19:37 Shiirn: this is what happens when i don't
2016-01-20 19:37 Shiirn: 01:28:395 (2,3) - has had a bazillion different suggestions
2016-01-20 19:39 Shiro: considering the configuration, it would be hard to change
2016-01-20 19:40 Shiirn: ineed
2016-01-20 19:40 Shiirn: deed
2016-01-20 19:40 Shiro: I can try to think of something if you want
2016-01-20 19:40 Shiirn: ehhh
2016-01-20 19:40 Shiirn: ive treid and given up
2016-01-20 19:40 Shiirn: feel free to suggest
2016-01-20 19:44 Shiro: http://puu.sh/mD4Vy/e00d083afe.jpg something like this could work
2016-01-20 19:44 Shiro: (properly done)
2016-01-20 19:44 Shiirn: sec phone
2016-01-20 19:44 Shiirn: ugh
2016-01-20 19:44 Shiirn: spam calls that happen when you're waiting for an important call
2016-01-20 19:44 Shiirn: are the worst
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiirn: where the heck did u get
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiirn: 678910 from
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiirn: lol
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiro: oups
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiro: 6 is 01:28:062 (1) -
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiro: for some reason the new combo vanished
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiirn: o ok uhhhh
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiirn: the thing is
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiirn: among all the patterns in the map
2016-01-20 19:45 Shiirn: this is one of the few im willing to completely scrap
2016-01-20 19:46 Shiro: I had an idea but it would require replacing both sliders with two circles
2016-01-20 19:47 Shiirn: AR massively lowered to show new pattern http://puu.sh/mD5ft/b421c7aa2c.jpg
2016-01-20 19:48 Shiro: 3,4 would be unequal to 1,2 in that pattern
2016-01-20 19:48 Shiirn: 4 does point at 3, though, and the jump is not all that large
2016-01-20 19:48 Shiro: im worried about the antiflow 3->4
2016-01-20 19:48 Shiro: otherwise it would work
2016-01-20 19:49 Shiirn: i mean
2016-01-20 19:49 Shiirn: i can ctrl+g 4
2016-01-20 19:49 Shiirn: and 6
2016-01-20 19:49 Shiirn: and the 1/4 note i added because it totally exists
2016-01-20 19:49 Shiro: yeah it would work that way
2016-01-20 19:54 Shiro: 01:29:395 (1,2) - same comment as earlier
2016-01-20 19:55 Shiro: 01:33:312 (6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - you might not agree with me but I don't see with pattern working here, it's the same sound as the one I pointed earlier (as biggest problem) so imo you should use the same kind of rhythm
2016-01-20 19:57 Shiirn: i mean i can swap 3,4 so that its not...
2016-01-20 19:57 Shiirn: weird
2016-01-20 20:00 Shiro: tell me when i can proceed
2016-01-20 20:00 Shiirn: yeah go ahead
2016-01-20 20:00 Shiirn: o_o
2016-01-20 20:00 Shiro: 01:40:229 (2) - you could at least not have hidden this under the stream, it's ugly
2016-01-20 20:00 Shiro:

2016-01-20 20:01 Shiirn: flipped
2016-01-20 20:01 Shiro: you could easily just move it down though
2016-01-20 20:01 Shiro: so the end isn't covered like that
2016-01-20 20:01 Shiirn: i like it more flipped anyway
2016-01-20 20:01 Shiro: 01:43:229 (4,5) - pls
2016-01-20 20:02 Shiro: it's unlike you to leave those small overlaps around
2016-01-20 20:02 Shiirn: pls
2016-01-20 20:02 Shiro: did everyone complain about it
2016-01-20 20:02 Shiro: I assume it got pointed out like
2016-01-20 20:02 Shiro: a billion times
2016-01-20 20:03 Shiro: 01:59:229 (4,5,6) - why not give them the same spacing
2016-01-20 20:03 Shiirn: ILL MOVE THE ENTIRE DAMN STREAM
2016-01-20 20:03 Shiro: lol
2016-01-20 20:03 Shiro: I'm sorry ;_;
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiro: 02:02:645 (6,1) - this stream is RUDE
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiirn:

2016-01-20 20:05 Shiro: don't change it)
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiirn: are these streams like
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiirn: unacceptably ugly
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiro: nono
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiro: streams are fine but
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiro: even number of beats
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiro: in a stream this long
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiro: is gonna be very confusing
2016-01-20 20:05 Shiirn: no i mean
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiirn: visually
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiirn: idc about that particular stream
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiirn: because irre
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiirn: like
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiirn: yelled at me
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiirn: that the streams were ugly and horrible
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiro: visually they're fine
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiro: o.O they play decently
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiro: 02:09:395 (1,4) - stack
2016-01-20 20:06 Shiirn: fixed
2016-01-20 20:07 Shiro: okay now 02:09:895 (4,5,6) - is a problem imo
2016-01-20 20:07 Shiro: because 02:07:729 (4,5) -
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: 02:07:729 (4,5) -
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: this
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: 02:10:312 (5,6) -
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: this
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiirn: ye
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: look the same
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: but
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiirn: o
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiirn: ic
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: one is two doubles, one is a triple
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiirn: i mean
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiirn: i can uhhhh
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiirn: change the 6 in the second one to just a note
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiirn: and move it under 4
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: problem is that they're both spaced
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: except one is a split triple
2016-01-20 20:08 Shiro: it's gonna be hard to read
2016-01-20 20:09 Shiirn: mmm
2016-01-20 20:09 Shiirn: i just changed 6 into a slider and it looks fine to me
2016-01-20 20:09 Shiirn: er
2016-01-20 20:09 Shiirn: circle
2016-01-20 20:09 Shiro: could work
2016-01-20 20:09 Shiro: would need further input
2016-01-20 20:10 Shiro: I'm not the best sightreader around
2016-01-20 20:10 Shiro: 02:11:312 (8,1) - this jump intentional ?
2016-01-20 20:10 Shiirn: i mean its not unintentional but if the spaced outness is ugly ill just move it over
2016-01-20 20:10 Shiro: nono
2016-01-20 20:10 Shiro: im asking cause it could be pointed out as an error
2016-01-20 20:10 Shiro: but
2016-01-20 20:10 Shiro: i can make sense out of it
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiro: it's also repeated
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiirn: i mean
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiirn: it plays identically either way
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiirn: but if its ugly
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiirn: ill move it
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiro: 02:11:395 (1,1,1) -
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiro: no, it's not
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiro: it adds to the gameplay
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiro: i have nothing against it, I like that kind of stream
2016-01-20 20:11 Shiro: but again, it's unclear whether or not it's intentional
2016-01-20 20:12 Shiirn: they're all intentional
2016-01-20 20:12 Shiirn: but people hate them so i give up
2016-01-20 20:12 Shiro: I like them
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiro: I wouldn't ask to change them
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiro: but be aware others might
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiro: also
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiro: I've defended one single note in tengaku
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiro: through 22 pages of mods
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiirn: yeah well
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiro: so I suppose I can relate
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiirn: i can defend all i FUCKING want
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiirn: but if irre doesnt agree im fucked
2016-01-20 20:13 Shiro: fuck irre
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiirn: because he specifically told me
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiro: I defended tengaku through 4 DQs
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiirn: he's not letting it get ranked if he's not satisfied
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiro: and 4 top-ranked players saying the map was bad
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiro: you have a lot more influence than me
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiro: Irre has no right to singlehandedly shit your map into graveyard
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiirn: i don't have
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiro: his concerns have been address
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiirn: all the influence you think i have
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiirn: i don't know anyone on the QAT
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiro: you have more than 0 influence
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiirn: or BN groups
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiro: which i have
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiirn: or anyone in any place of power
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiro: people KNOW you
2016-01-20 20:14 Shiro: that's more than I can say of myself
2016-01-20 20:15 Shiro: and that gives you a lot of power
2016-01-20 20:15 Shiirn: but they don't necessarily DEFEND me
2016-01-20 20:15 Shiirn: not a single person has come to my defense in felys
2016-01-20 20:15 Shiirn: and that's partially why im upset
2016-01-20 20:15 Shiro: you're a 2012 mapper
2016-01-20 20:15 Shiro: this is 2015
2016-01-20 20:15 Shiro: give people time to rediscover your style
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiro: and you'll have your own "army" of fans ready to defend you (said neutrally, don't think I'm blaming you)
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiro: you're a forgotten mapper as it is now
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiirn: im aware of what you mean
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiro: but you'll have no trouble going back into people's memories
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiirn: not if irre keeps slapping felys going NO
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiirn: and not if the BNsituation stays as FUCKED as it is
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiirn: because basically
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiro: take it up to Loctav
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiirn: the only BNs i can ask to mod my map
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiro: you addressed Irre's concerns
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiirn: are
2016-01-20 20:16 Shiirn: Natsu
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: Monstrata
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: Okoratu
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: Kyubey
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiro: well
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: and maybe sukinathan in the future
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: that's IT
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiro: consider yourself lucky you get a Shiro mod
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: that's ALL
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: the bns
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiro: you wouldn't believe how many people have tried and failed
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: i mean im very glad
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiro: it hasn't happened since shining gate
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: you're going over this with me
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: because motivation is a big issue when it comes down to it
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiro: I know how you feel
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiirn: but you're not going to icon the map so i still need to get 3 other people
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiro: this is your second DQ that already gets on people's nerves and motivation
2016-01-20 20:17 Shiro: well I can't
2016-01-20 20:18 Shiro: I can ask Loctav if I'm allowed to
2016-01-20 20:18 Shiirn: and i don't expect you to
2016-01-20 20:18 Shiro: but I doubt he'll say yes
2016-01-20 20:18 Shiirn: i mean
2016-01-20 20:18 Shiirn: loctav doesnt mod SHIT and he qualified tengaku
2016-01-20 20:18 Shiirn: so
2016-01-20 20:18 Shiirn: but it's loctav
2016-01-20 20:18 Shiirn: hecan do what he wants
2016-01-20 20:20 Shiro: 02:20:562 (3) - this isn't perfect
2016-01-20 20:20 Shiro: red node should be a bit more down
2016-01-20 20:21 Shiirn: k its perfect
2016-01-20 20:22 Shiro: 02:23:562 (4,5) - is there a way for you toa void this overlap ?
2016-01-20 20:23 Shiro: 02:28:062 (1,2) - stack!
2016-01-20 20:24 Shiirn: fixed
2016-01-20 20:25 Shiro: 02:28:479 (3,4) - for the sake of a better flow and less jerky motion id move 3 to the right of the slider
2016-01-20 20:25 Shiro: but it's up to you
2016-01-20 20:25 Shiirn: fine w/ me
2016-01-20 20:25 Shiro: for the sake of consistency (again)
2016-01-20 20:25 Shiro: 02:29:979 (4,1) - make this a jump like 02:29:645 (4,1) -
2016-01-20 20:26 Shiirn: ugh
2016-01-20 20:26 Shiirn: move the entire pattern?
2016-01-20 20:26 Shiro: rotate the stream a bit
2016-01-20 20:26 Shiro: then move it down a tad
2016-01-20 20:26 Shiro: should work
2016-01-20 20:26 Shiro: you don't have to though i mean
2016-01-20 20:26 Shiro: it's just me
2016-01-20 20:26 Shiirn: i just moved the entire pattern for the next 1.5 seconds
2016-01-20 20:26 Shiirn: LEL
2016-01-20 20:27 Shiro: 02:37:229 (6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - I like this
2016-01-20 20:28 Shiirn: neat
2016-01-20 20:28 Shiro: 03:13:895 (2,3) - stack
2016-01-20 20:28 Shiirn: 02:37:729 (5) - needs a new combo
2016-01-20 20:28 Shiro: 03:18:395 (6,7) - stack
2016-01-20 20:28 Shiro: ah I'm not looking at the comboing
2016-01-20 20:28 Shiirn: wtf they are stacked
2016-01-20 20:28 Shiirn: like
2016-01-20 20:28 Shiirn: for real
2016-01-20 20:28 Shiro: check it
2016-01-20 20:29 Shiirn: the first one
2016-01-20 20:29 Shiirn: w/e
2016-01-20 20:29 Shiro: 6 is 1px off
2016-01-20 20:29 Shiirn: fixed
2016-01-20 20:29 Shiro: >.> sorry
2016-01-20 20:29 Shiro: if you ask me I'd like not to see those things
2016-01-20 20:29 Shiro: they easily ruin maps for me
2016-01-20 20:29 Shiro: 03:19:062 (2,4) - stack
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiirn: slider ends wont stack correctly at all
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiirn: i feel like
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiirn: in the editor
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiro: nope I noticed
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiro: they're always off
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiirn: i need to move circles on top of ends
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiirn: i cant move ends underneath circles
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiro: you've got to manually pixelmove them
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiro: 03:20:562 - how come you ignored the piano here ?
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiirn: but they like
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiirn: latch onto eachother
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiirn: idk?
2016-01-20 20:30 Shiro: click the circle
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiro: then click the coordinates in the top right corner
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiirn: because the patterns are using
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiirn: WHAT
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiirn: THIS IS A THING?
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiro: yup
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiirn: IVE NEVER KNOWN THIS WAS A THING
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiro: been added a LONG while ago
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiro: it's neat
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiirn: BUT YEAH UH
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiirn: not doing the piano cuz
2016-01-20 20:31 Shiirn: the patterns are following the drum
2016-01-20 20:32 Shiro: 03:42:062 (1,1,1) - remove those new combos
2016-01-20 20:32 Shiro: you didn't NC the same stream earlier in the map
2016-01-20 20:32 Shiro: like way earlier
2016-01-20 20:32 Shiirn: k
2016-01-20 20:32 Shiirn: moved the triple too
2016-01-20 20:32 Shiirn: so its properly stacked
2016-01-20 20:33 Shiirn: <3 pixels
2016-01-20 20:33 Shiro: man I'd have massive troubles playing this
2016-01-20 20:33 Shiro: too many even-numbered streams
2016-01-20 20:33 Shiro: they fuck me up lol
2016-01-20 20:34 Shiro: 04:32:062 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - what are GGG triangles doing here
2016-01-20 20:34 Shiro: O:
2016-01-20 20:34 Shiro: also 04:33:062 (1,2,3) - isn't a proper triangle
2016-01-20 20:35 Shiro: 04:33:895 (4,5) - stack (again damn sliderends)
2016-01-20 20:35 Shiro: 04:35:895 (2,3) - triangle again i assume
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: GGG triangles?
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiro: green grass garden
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiro: the rotating triangles
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: oh
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: who cares
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: LOL
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiro:

2016-01-20 20:36 Shiro: you broke my spirit
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: also those sliders
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiro: come on i was all like
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: i just uhhh
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: they're good enough
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiro: omg someone used my stuff in one of their maps
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: i mean
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: is that ur map?
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiirn: it's a good pattern
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiro: dont break mappers spirit
2016-01-20 20:36 Shiro:

2016-01-20 20:37 Shiro: you know my dream is to inspire people
2016-01-20 20:37 Shiro: 04:44:562 (4,5) - stack
2016-01-20 20:37 Shiro: 04:47:895 (9,1) - stack
2016-01-20 20:37 Shiro: 05:03:979 (8,1) - stack
2016-01-20 20:38 Shiro: 05:09:395 (1,5) - stack
2016-01-20 20:38 Shiro: yes I notice these while going through the map in normal speed
2016-01-20 20:38 Shiirn: ok
2016-01-20 20:38 Shiirn: done
2016-01-20 20:38 Shiro: 05:12:729 (1,1) - I assume this was intended though ?
2016-01-20 20:39 Shiirn: yeah intended there
2016-01-20 20:39 Shiirn: i was getting comments it was hard af to read stacked
2016-01-20 20:40 Shiro: 05:34:562 (4,1) - id argue that this is a bit too much of a jump although I see where it comes from
2016-01-20 20:40 Shiro: just reverse the slider
2016-01-20 20:41 Shiirn: i put my logic in response to tess's mod
2016-01-20 20:41 Shiro: huh
2016-01-20 20:41 Shiro: i missed it ?
2016-01-20 20:41 Shiro: o.O
2016-01-20 20:41 Shiro: hold on
2016-01-20 20:41 Shiirn: 1 sec
2016-01-20 20:41 Shiirn: "One of the theories I'm famous for helping to cement in the minds of all players everywhere is that "Jumps are way easier and way cooler if they end on a slider" - I've not heard a single person who reached this point in the map do anything but end it very powerfully. The response if they missed it was "Awww, shucks" because they'll get an S even if they sliderbreak and they won't lose out on that much score/pp/combo/whatever (another reason why... (message truncated)
2016-01-20 20:41 Shiirn: tell me where it truncated
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiro: ah I found it
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiro: okay, that works
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiro: I wish I were famous for anything
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiirn: Like if i needed to map the 10-20 second outro
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiirn: i'd never do a jump this big
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiirn: but you'd only lose like
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiro: i was surprised it wasn't mapped, but it's your choice
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiirn: 10 pp for missing it
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiirn: if you FC'd the rest of the map
2016-01-20 20:42 Shiirn: i mean
2016-01-20 20:43 Shiirn: some reasons why i didnt do so are
2016-01-20 20:43 Shiro: also @monstrata "It's just something you'll have to swallow when you try to introduce something different into the meta. Not everyone likes change."
2016-01-20 20:43 Shiirn: it's really boring compared to the rest of the map
2016-01-20 20:43 Shiro: I'm constantly eating that with tengaku
2016-01-20 20:43 Shiro: even though it's not like
2016-01-20 20:43 Shiirn: and i was fucking tired
2016-01-20 20:43 Shiirn: of mapping
2016-01-20 20:43 Shiirn: this shit
2016-01-20 20:43 Shiro: completely breaking the meta
2016-01-20 20:46 Shiro: i think im done

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-01-21T01:39:53+00:00

....

Ambient

579 posts

Joined August 2013

Ambient 2016-01-21T09:48:39+00:00

I for one love this map. I might just be another nobody player like the rest and a new mapper like the others but this is the sort of map that makes me play osu! As Monstrata said, the meta is changing and not many people like change but I thrive for this sort of stuff, and i'm sure a lot of others would as well. Maps currently as a majority of people see it are PP farming, TV Size maps with massive jumps within the last 15 seconds or so. This is what has begun to pull me away from osu! and i would say many others as well. Maps like those that seem to have little effort or "creativity" put in them but yet, that is what the community accepts and me alone cant argue about it.

Shiirn, your maps such as ChaiN De/structioN, Almagest, and Laplace have been my center-point of enjoyment in osu! I always come back to play them even though i've submitted multiple scores on them because I know they're fun and I know i'll have a solid time playing them, unlike other maps that you FC once and never play again.

I'm not trying to call out anyone or any maps, It's just that some of the negativity i've seen really riles me up and makes me upset to see what others think of maps like this, I know what I say isn't absolute and my opinion doesn't matter but I just wanted to have a rant and to say this;

Shiirn, you are the mapper that got me into this game, and will continue to keep me in this game hopefully for more years to come. Keep doing what you're doing man.

Nyxa

848 posts

Joined October 2013

Nyxa 2016-01-21T10:47:16+00:00

Modding a map to help it improve doesn't mean the modder dislikes the map, though. Also, compared to many other threads, there's almost no negativity in this one to be honest. That a map gets DQ'd doesn't always necessarily mean it's bad, just that it's not optimal, and could see some improvements. I mean I get your point about pp farm maps and stuff but if you want to support good maps then it's better to mod them to help them improve than to just shove maps you dislike to the side and promote maps you like, without trying to help them be made even better than they already are.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-01-21T15:23:27+00:00

The lack of negativity in this thread largely is because people tend to come to me specifically, personally, about their opinions and feelings about my maps because somehow I appear to have garnered the reputation for being quite personable already.

I kind of blew a fuse on felys because I'm not one who values polish as much as either Tess or Irreversible as it is, and I felt like the 10-15 minutes they spent in simultaneous yet separate modding could have been done at a more opportune time than halfway through qualification. But schedules yadda yadda. And I'm sorry for offending either of you or anyone.

The whole "DQ then discuss" is one of the most significant problems I fear with my maps because almost every single one of my maps does something "special" and if I need to explain myself several times over several DQs because different people find small bits objectionable, well, I'm just trying to explain why my frustration (and fear) is reasonable.

(And as a side note: Yes, at some point I don't care about improving my map any further because I am satisfied with it. If that's a problem it's down to the QAT 'team' to tell me to reach their standards and I'll happily work with them.)

It's just appalling to me that someone can completely reset the timer on the ranking process by bringing up something that was addressed before somewhere in the thread that the mapper certainly remembers. But we shouldn't expect Random Joe 13 to read the entire thread, right? So that's why I think discussion should be an OPTION before just resetting the timer off the bat. Especially if all of the parties involved are actively looking at the map in real-time on the client and are talking to eachother on the client.

Just seems silly to me.

riffy

osu! Alumni

8,060 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-01-21T16:23:56+00:00

I did have a look at the mapset and checked whether things are reasonable or not and I believe it is fine to go the way it is. We've had a little conversation about the map with Shiirn and while I do admit that this is far from being my type of the map, I do not have any reason to keep it where it is now.

Just stating my opinion, though.

Edit: the mapset is fine, metadata and general stuff has been discussed and checked before.

Bubble #1

snz

877 posts

Joined February 2015

snz 2016-01-21T20:07:52+00:00

Bakari wrote:
Bubble #1

i like bubbles :3

Birdy

5,720 posts

Joined April 2011

Birdy 2016-01-21T20:10:18+00:00

Bakari delivers.

Luel Roseline

1,034 posts

Joined February 2014

Luel Roseline 2016-01-22T03:01:27+00:00

...

Liiraye

1,354 posts

Joined December 2011

Liiraye 2016-01-22T23:49:14+00:00

Shiirn wrote:
The lack of negativity in this thread largely is because people tend to come to me specifically, personally, about their opinions and feelings about my maps because somehow I appear to have garnered the reputation for being quite personable already.

I kind of blew a fuse on felys because I'm not one who values polish as much as either Tess or Irreversible as it is, and I felt like the 10-15 minutes they spent in simultaneous yet separate modding could have been done at a more opportune time than halfway through qualification. But schedules yadda yadda. And I'm sorry for offending either of you or anyone.

The whole "DQ then discuss" is one of the most significant problems I fear with my maps because almost every single one of my maps does something "special" and if I need to explain myself several times over several DQs because different people find small bits objectionable, well, I'm just trying to explain why my frustration (and fear) is reasonable.

(And as a side note: Yes, at some point I don't care about improving my map any further because I am satisfied with it. If that's a problem it's down to the QAT 'team' to tell me to reach their standards and I'll happily work with them.)

It's just appalling to me that someone can completely reset the timer on the ranking process by bringing up something that was addressed before somewhere in the thread that the mapper certainly remembers. But we shouldn't expect Random Joe 13 to read the entire thread, right? So that's why I think discussion should be an OPTION before just resetting the timer off the bat. Especially if all of the parties involved are actively looking at the map in real-time on the client and are talking to eachother on the client.

Just seems silly to me.

Essentially what I think, well put. I've just never been bothered to try and change because I don't have the energy to repeat myself over and over. I hope this post opens a few eyes in the staff team. The shoot first ask questions later approach could be avoided so easily if the QAT just tried contacting the mapper before throwing DQ's that are not unrankable issues.

Artorias_DELETED

Artorias_DELETED 2016-01-23T01:03:25+00:00

Every onoken song must be ranked. He is god on earth.

Kyubey

osu! Alumni

3,097 posts

Joined December 2012

Kyubey 2016-01-23T13:29:31+00:00

#2

Myxo

osu! Alumni

3,103 posts

Joined December 2012

Myxo 2016-01-23T18:02:30+00:00

Qualified.

2016-01-23 18:33 Shiirn: OKAY HIT ME
2016-01-23 18:34 Desperate-kun: okay let me see
2016-01-23 18:34 Shiirn: UHHH
2016-01-23 18:34 Shiirn: brb errand
2016-01-23 18:36 Desperate-kun: so like
2016-01-23 18:37 Desperate-kun: 01:29:062 (6,1) - this seems a bit low spacing for 1/2
2016-01-23 18:37 Desperate-kun: and reads like a 1/4 gap for me
2016-01-23 18:37 Desperate-kun: 01:36:062 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - such a cool pattern <3
2016-01-23 18:38 Desperate-kun: 01:48:562 (3) - any specific reason to use a bezier slider here? (not important i'm just curious)
2016-01-23 18:39 Desperate-kun: 02:12:229 (2,3) - seems odd that these are not perfectly stacked
2016-01-23 18:40 Desperate-kun: i just noticed 02:12:229 (2,4) - are also slightly moved... maybe you could make the distance the same for both to make the pattern look visually more appealing, if you don't want to stack them
2016-01-23 18:41 Desperate-kun: 03:01:395 - this section is the coolest of all, totally in love with it
2016-01-23 18:45 Desperate-kun: well other than those that i mentioned there are no problems
2016-01-23 18:45 Desperate-kun: if you can even call these problems
2016-01-23 18:45 Shiirn: im afk for a few more but i will read soon
2016-01-23 18:45 Desperate-kun: sure sure
2016-01-23 18:45 Shiirn: i will explain each
2016-01-23 18:45 Shiirn: ive seen them linked before
2016-01-23 18:45 Desperate-kun: but yeah you are right this has been checked enough
2016-01-23 18:50 Shiirn: 01:29:062 (6,1) - due to how the map has played im pretty sure no player would think this is a 1/4 spacing and as a pattern reset the spacing matters less anyway
2016-01-23 18:51 Shiirn: 01:48:562 (3) - magic 3-points weren't giving me the stretching curve i wanted
2016-01-23 18:52 Shiirn: 02:12:229 (2,3) - unlike the rest of the map this is the first time a note is put under the START of a slider and it is much harder to read if done that way
2016-01-23 18:52 Shiirn: 02:12:895 (4) - is unstacked just to be consistent with the 3 of the combo
2016-01-23 18:53 Desperate-kun: but they could be unstacked the same way like
2016-01-23 18:53 Desperate-kun: moving (4) a bit more away from (2)
2016-01-23 18:53 Shiirn: yeah
2016-01-23 18:53 Desperate-kun: beacuse (4) is almost stacked right now
2016-01-23 18:53 Shiirn: honestly (3) was supposed to be a bit closer and 4 was supposed to be a bit to the right
2016-01-23 18:53 Shiirn: but the stream is there
2016-01-23 18:54 Shiirn: ACTION shrugs
2016-01-23 18:54 Desperate-kun: i just moved (4) and (5) a bit http://puu.sh/mGJLK/8eccdec87b.jpg
2016-01-23 18:54 Shiirn: yeah, i'll do that
2016-01-23 18:54 Desperate-kun: cool
2016-01-23 18:55 Desperate-kun: well yeah that's it then
2016-01-23 18:55 Shiirn: mostly those early sections
2016-01-23 18:55 Desperate-kun: let me check technical stuff and we are good to go
2016-01-23 18:55 Shiirn: where things are a bit awkward on purpose because i was recovering my mapping skills while banned
2016-01-23 18:55 Shiirn: yep
2016-01-23 18:55 Desperate-kun: yeah
2016-01-23 18:55 Desperate-kun: i agree
2016-01-23 18:55 Desperate-kun: the map is alright at the beginning but gets much better at the end
2016-01-23 18:55 Shiirn: that's why i'm vehement about keeping a lot of it
2016-01-23 18:56 Shiirn: because i want to keep the original thoughts i had while showing how quickly a mapper can get better over the course of the same map
2016-01-23 18:56 Desperate-kun: lol that sounds like a pure excuse
2016-01-23 18:57 Shiirn: it's a public statement
2016-01-23 18:57 Shiirn: i'm not going to hide it
2016-01-23 18:57 Desperate-kun: it's like "look the beginning of my map is shit because i want to show how i improved while mapping this"
2016-01-23 18:57 Desperate-kun: i find that to be hilarious
2016-01-23 18:57 Shiirn: well
2016-01-23 18:57 Shiirn: i don't say shit
2016-01-23 18:57 Desperate-kun: you should put it more like, your style changed
2016-01-23 18:57 Shiirn: i use nicer words
2016-01-23 18:57 Desperate-kun: but not the quality
2016-01-23 18:57 Shiirn: like "rigid" and "awkward"
2016-01-23 18:57 Shiirn: and "evolving style"
2016-01-23 18:57 Desperate-kun: yeah alright
2016-01-23 18:57 Desperate-kun: i'm fine with that
2016-01-23 18:58 Desperate-kun: technical is fine
2016-01-23 18:58 Desperate-kun: tell me when you updated
2016-01-23 18:58 Desperate-kun: i hope BSS is on your side