First off, I'm not entirely new to VSRGs. Played mostly DDR clones before osu!mania. And even though I've been playing for fun most of the time, I kept hitting this one barrier that made me quit numerous times. So I decided to ask for help here in hopes to get some tips.

Secondly, didn't want to post in the improvement sticky thread, since it's kind of dead, so opened a separate thread instead.

Anyways, I seem to be unable to read/play things at all when I reach the ~200 BPM zone. The only thing I can play at around 280-300 BPM 16ths is rolls. 180 BPM jumpstreams are somewhat beatable, as long as they are not reaaally dense. 200 BPM 16th streams are somewhat ok, but I tend to drop them if they last a bit longer than usual. I can somewhat play 140 BPM 16th jacks, as long as they are single taps. And numerous problems with holds I'm not gonna even name.

I want to start playing a bit more competitively, and for me that is playing faster, harder patterns instead of being an accuracy monster because in the end I still want to have fun and being able to play the fast stuff does just that for me. So anything regarding accuracy can be ignored

Here's some extra info if needed:

I use upscroll, at fixed approach speed of 27-29. My layout is SD56 (numpad), since that's the only configuration that allows for quads. I keep my eyes at the top of the screen, where the hit area is. I play most of the patters focusing on fingers mostly, don't use wrists unless playing jacks.

If there's anything else you need to know, ask away and I'll try to answer it to the best of my ability.
Any and all opinions/tips are welcome.

im not the best at osu mania, but you should always look at the middle of the screen to register all of the notes, ready to tap, it should be easier to read harder patterns aswell... gl improving

how often do you play?

Moyase wrote:

im not the best at osu mania, but you should always look at the middle of the screen to register all of the notes, ready to tap, it should be easier to read harder patterns aswell... gl improving

Hm, looks like i'll have to try that out. Thanks :3

edisk wrote:

how often do you play?

Mostly daily, from 1 to 3 hours on average. Don't play ranked maps too much anymore, since the skill gap between the alleged 4 stars to 4.5 stars is insane

blitZee wrote:

Mostly daily, from 1 to 3 hours on average. Don't play ranked maps too much anymore, since the skill gap between the alleged 4 stars to 4.5 stars is insane

Try having 1-2rest days per week. I saw myself improving faster when I included rest days, not sure if it'll work for you.

EDIT: Try playing a greater variety of maps too

do you use the default skin? 27-29 is pretty fast

OperaMini0 wrote:

27-29 is pretty fast

Once your eyes are used to it it's pretty normal actually.

I use a modified staiain skin, might convert a skin I liked in SM5 soon and see how that goes.

And regarding speed, i feel like i used to play at higher speeds. 27-29 feels a lot like a900-950 in sm.

edisk wrote:

Try having 1-2rest days per week. I saw myself improving faster when I included rest days, not sure if it'll work for you.

EDIT: Try playing a greater variety of maps too

I do have a break once a week, i either don't play at all or play chill maps for shorter amount of time. And my variety's going to increase soon, since i just finished dl'ing a buncha converts

Learning to read lower on the screen should help with reading related issues. The closer you read to the receptors, the less time you have to read the patterns. It does help when playing for accuracy, but since you're focusing on improving your ability to hit things rather than focusing on accuracy, that should be a step in the right direction.

And yes, playing a wider variety of maps, and focusing specifically on things you have difficulty with (LNs, for example) will help too.

If your the type of person who replays maps a lot, try playing each map less often, because that tends to teach people to memorize patterns rather than learn to sightread.

Also, you still probably should have posted in the sticky. The whole reason it's a sticky is so that if the thread has no activity for a while it won't get buried and will still be visible so people can post there rather than clutter this forum up with duplicate threads.

Bobbias wrote:

.

Try playing maps that you replay a lot with random mod too, though it may not help much since it's 4k. Also, you might want to lower your speed on a map you can comfortably play on for pattern reading and accuracy improvement. (with random mod to prevent mindblocks)

edisk wrote:

Bobbias wrote:

snip

snip

Thanks a lot guys :3
Switched to mid-screen reading, and some of my LN related problems magically disappeared. Of course, my accuracy is kinda bad now, even when compared to what I had before. But nothing HR can't solve, gonna work back on getting back to my previous accuracy and then onward to harder maps.
Also, do you have any suggestions for jumpstream maps? Something along the lines of Game Time? For some reason I can't read anything like Tokyo Teddy Bear [MX], even though there's only a jump every beat with the odd hand each measure. Maps from stepmania are absolutely fine as well.

And yes, I should have probably posted in the sticky thread after all, but I might have not gotten all of these wonderful replies ^^

this may sound weird but its a thing. People and you, can get magically better (sudden skill boosts). Sometime they stay, sometimes they don't.

Just this month I jumped from tearing my hair trying to read 230 bpm dense js (NS18 intro) to passing something 260 bpm-ish with some effort (JTF Expert).

Just keep playing and you'll see yourself reading hard stuff with ease. Just don't replay a song too much. Get some variety as previously said by others.

RD might throw in terrible patterns though but it is good practice.

if your keyboard is membrane dome (like mine), changing to a mechanical one would probably help since it's much lighter

rhonin77 wrote:

if your keyboard is membrane dome (like mine), changing to a mechanical one would probably help since it's much lighter

After seeing pros play ridiculously hard maps with membranes, controllers, foot pedals, nipples with straw attached to turntable, etc., I'm convinced what you play on really doesn't matter at all.

Actually, I think blindly parroting advice like this is really misleading and I honestly don't understand the hype around the "performance" of mechs (considering I own several and find them fun to type on, but I really don't think they add any significant performance gain, if any).

The kind of keyboard has an effect, but a mech will not magically make you better.

I switched from playing on a laptop to a mech KB with MX Reds a few month back. I found that while my accuracy increased on the mech, and I was able to manage minijacks considerably better, I was actually missing more notes overall on everything I played.

Bobbias wrote:

The kind of keyboard has an effect, but a mech will not magically make you better.

I switched from playing on a laptop to a mech KB with MX Reds a few month back. I found that while my accuracy increased on the mech, and I was able to manage minijacks considerably better, I was actually missing more notes overall on everything I played.

backing this up

I accu better on membrane kbs and miss more
I hit more notes and jack much better on my laptop

You jack better on the laptop? I find jacks way harder on my laptop than my mech lol.

Really? Well since i never actually used mech i can't really voice my opinion, im buying it next week though ill tell you then whether it has good or adverse effect towards my performance

Bobbias wrote:

You jack better on the laptop? I find jacks way harder on my laptop than my mech lol.

might have mislead with my term usage since membrane kb is something general but the kb would be something like this:http://bscomputerbd.com/image/thumbnails/18/80/3000N_400x400_jpg-100355-250x250.jpg

Only play with ^ if i play osu at internet cafes

My laptop is a macbook sooooo yeah.

@rhonin well you should check your playstyle and see what kb you think best suits you
Results aren't instant because you'll have to get used to your new kb
I don't really know much about keyboards in general though

after doing some research, i realized that macbook is scissor switch. You might want to check that out.

Lenfried- wrote:

@rhonin well you should check your playstyle and see what kb you think best suits you
Results aren't instant because you'll have to get used to your new kb
I don't really know much about keyboards in general though

Yep i'm sure it's gonna take some time to yield results, since i've been using heavy membrane kb i thought of getting cherry black, but my super pro friend told me to get cherry reds instead.
Well, we'll see how it goes

Lenfried- wrote:

Bobbias wrote:

You jack better on the laptop? I find jacks way harder on my laptop than my mech lol.

-snip-

@rhonin well you should check your playstyle and see what kb you think best suits you
Results aren't instant because you'll have to get used to your new kb
I don't really know much about keyboards in general though

Well, a quick rundown would pretty much be this:

Standard keyboards: uses (mostly) cheaper plastic, key presses are registered via rubber membranes. Most often doesn't support more than 4-5 key presses (no anti-ghosting) (applies to USB only). Medium tactile feedback, lasts for a while

Membranes: You have one huge piece of a keyboard with pressure pads instead of separate keys. Tactile feedback most often described as mushy aka you get practically none. You can roll it up though. Dunno about durability or anti-ghosting

Mechanicals: uses (mostly) quality plastic. Each individual key has a spring-switch. Has increased anti-ghosting (for USBs, otherwise standard n-key rollover)
Lasts a lot longer (from 5 to 50 million key presses for each key). Tactile feedback based on switch (from practically none to "Oh boy, is this a workout for my fingers?" amounts of feedback). A lot of them are overpriced due to brand. Generally expensive. Also, makes a lot of noise (on most of the switches).

Laptops: pretty much standard keyboards, but are always flat, has little to no anti-ghosting, and doesn't last as long (as in, my current keyboard has a couple keys superglued already. And I know that the keys crack a lot). Rare to find a laptop keyboard with support for more than 4 simultaneous key presses. Added bonus is that they don't drain stamina as fast.

Getting back on topic, mid-screen reading is exactly what I needed. Shredded through a couple of my old PBs, my combo sustain doubled in some cases :3 Still didn't get back my older accuracy though

rhonin77 wrote:

Lenfried- wrote:

-snip-

Yep i'm sure it's gonna take some time to yield results, since i've been using heavy membrane kb i thought of getting cherry black, but my super pro friend told me to get cherry reds instead.
Well, we'll see how it goes

Cherry blacks are one of the older switches. If you prefer your keys stiffer, they are a pretty good option. They rebound quickly and prevent accidental key presses due to their actuation force. Drains stamina more, though. Could be pretty good for training if you had the possibility to switch between black and a lighter switch like red. I'd say it all comes down to preference. A lot of people like reds/browns though.

Just want to point out that unless your keyboard has extremely variable response time, you're not going to do much better on any type of keyboard. Most techniques that specifically require a mechanical keyboard are ones that are extremely high-level and inefficient until you reach a certain level of speed. An example would be something like actuation point surfing, which requires you to rely on the tactile bump on keyboards to find the actuation point to minimise the most distance possible from the reset point to the actuation point for speed. This works specifically for browns, but you can technically do this with reds as well with the audible feedback you get from the keyboard; learning it is far less efficient though.

The main reason why you'd want to get a mechanical keyboard is because most keyboards aren't very durable and mechanical keyboards are pretty much built like bricks unless you spill something over them. You won't have to buy more keyboards (which would have different response times, since PS/2 keyboards are a bit of a rarity for anything that's not a mech these days) and in turn you won't have to get used to a new keyboard every 6-8 months. Most mechanical keyboards should last for like two or three years, unless you only use a particular row. Also, get browns.

The reason why you do better with certain keyboards and worse with some others is because some keyboards are more optimal with certain techniques that you've built over the years, like for example laptop keyboards are usually more efficient for one hand trilling because of the amount of distance you need to travel, while blues are not as efficient because of the noticeably higher reset point than the actuation point. You just have to adapt to the new keyboard by readjusting certain techniques that you've built on a previous keyboard. Kind of the same for everything else, really.

Anyway, back to the topic. Reading resolution/space is more important. You've mentioned various FFR players in your previous post, so I assume that you're an FFR player. From my experience FFR has far less space for reading in comparison to certain skins on osu!mania. You might want to boot up Task Manager or something to cover part of the screen to make it feel like FFR, unless you find the extra space useful. I personally use Task Manager to cover up 30-35% of my screen because I can't hit anything fast if I have too much space.

It might not be noticeable for you because you seem to focus on the receptors themselves, which does greatly increase the amount of reaction time needed to actually focus on the notes. Given your speedmod though, it's not too surprising; most players with a speedmod that high tend to focus on the very upper end of the screen, or around the receptors. I do think that you should focus a bit lower if you have issues with reading though, and you're already doing that so that's fine. If you still seem to have problems reading (and your skill on FFR is much much better than your o!m ability), try covering part of your screen with Task Manager to ensure that your playing conditions are similar to FFR's. It makes a world of difference.

Shoegazer wrote:

-snip-.

Yeah, I know. I don't have problems with my current keyboard (except the aforementioned superglue fix cough cough), so I mostly stayed out of the conversation that took place here.

Anyways, I'm not really an FFR player. It's just that they had a decent ranking system + one of the more active communities. I used to play SM/ThirdStyle more, so space isn't really a problem. If anything, I can always just adjust the skin a bit.

It's just that I've always read near the top of the screen, so mid-screen reading is something completely new to me. Most people don't even mention this when beginners ask for tips, so I never stumbled upon it until now. And no worries, my skills both here and on FFR/SM don't differ much, I'm bad in general ^-^ Can't even clear 1st Dan because of that blasted Bangin' Burst. But that's why I made this thread in the first place - to improve.

Anyways, thank you everyone for the input! Suggestions and tips still welcome :3

The snippet about the keyboards is mainly for the others who were discussing about keyboards, wasn't primarily to you because you seem to have a good understanding on how keyboards work.

I think the stickied guide that's in the forums does a good job for beginner to novice players, you might want to read that to see if there's anything you're missing. It's definitely a bit too general though, but it's hard to really give specific tips because everyone comes from different backgrounds and writing a guide for every single person with every single background is borderline impossible. Just have to experiment~

Just putting it out there there's no difference between 'standard keyboards' and 'membrane keyboards' blitZee. So to clear things up:

Standard keyboards use rubber membrane switches. Mechanical keyboards use individual mechanical switches for each key. There are also capacitive based switches like Topres, but they are rare and not really worth talking about.

Scissor switches are by far the most common type of laptop key construction, and they are a modified version of membrane switches designed to reduce the key travel distance.

Bobbias wrote:

Just putting it out there there's no difference between 'standard keyboards' and 'membrane keyboards' blitZee. So to clear things up:

Standard keyboards use rubber membrane switches. Mechanical keyboards use individual mechanical switches for each key. There are also capacitive based switches like Topres, but they are rare and not really worth talking about.

Scissor switches are by far the most common type of laptop key construction, and they are a modified version of membrane switches designed to reduce the key travel distance.

Actually, there is. When I was referring to membrane keyboard, I was referring to this: http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j10uS ... riale-.jpg. The entire thing is rubbery, and you can roll it up like a yoga mat. Hence why I mentioned the mushy tactile response. I wasn't referring to the technology behind it but rather the keyboard itself, and this caused some misunderstanding I guess. It's entirely understandable as well, old membrane keyboards weren't really popular, but the technology behind them kinda found way into today's keyboards as a cheaper alternative to switches. What we have today is essentially a membrane keyboard covered with dome switches, which in turn adds tactile feedback.

And yeah, forgot the scissor switches for laptops. How could I have forgotten them when they were such a pain in the ass while picking my keyboard apart .-.

Oh god, those things. Well yeah those exist, but i don't think ANYONE actually likes those things. As far as I'm concerned you can pretty much ignore them. There are several different kinds of keyboards like that though. the one you linked is a little different than the usual "waterproof keyboard" you occasionally see around here in north america. The keyboard you linked has a small conductive plate with a slight bend in it that makes contact when you press it.

The more common waterproof keyboards you see around here look like this: http://www.ergodirect.com/images/adesso ... yboard.jpg

Those are essentially the inside of a standard rubber dome keyboard without the plastic key caps or casing. Instead of a small conductive plate just under the outer layer, these have more height to the keys and have a small cylinder with a conductive coating on the bottom that sticks down from the middle of the 'key' just like regular rubber dome keyboards.

I feel really bad for anyone who has to play on either of those things.

Bobbias wrote:

The more common waterproof keyboards you see around here look like this: http://www.ergodirect.com/images/adesso ... yboard.jpg

I have one of those. I'd rather quit than play on it again. It barely has any tactile feel to it and don't let me get started on accuracy.

I have played on every commonly known switch. I'm not sure if this helps but I will give you a run down of my performace while playing with these over the course of 3 years. This information will probably vary player to player based on their style.

Blacks: I had an extremely difficult time playing any rhythm game with this switch. While I haven't really figured out the purpose of them, I'm willing to bet that this type of switch probably won't make you happy in the long run since they are the heaviest. There is also zero tactile feedback on them.

Browns: These switches are great for playing games all around. They have tactile feedback, and they aren't really heavy at all (making it easy to fly your fingers on them). In the end, I found that browns are probably best suited for speed because it's easy to double tap on them. You might lack some accuracy, but you can get used to them and regain it back.

Reds: A great switch for an all around player - accuracy, speed, jacks, etc. In the beginning, I was easily tired out while playing with them because you have to bottom out the switch to make them actuate; however, they are the lightest switch and are related to black switches since they are linear.

Blues: If you want accuracy, these are the switches for you. Even though they are the loudest switch, they can do some good. I didn't really see my performance drop in stamina, speed, etc...If you have people who mind sound, these switches are probably the best for you. If not, go for it.

Hope this helps~

You don't need to bottom reds out to actuate them. However, its hard to find the exact actuation point since they're a linear switch with no tactile feedback.