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[New Rule/Guideline] Tags should be used correctly

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29
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Stefan
There are some recent beatmaps such as https://osu.ppy.sh/s/298996 and https://osu.ppy.sh/s/291155 (recently qualified but back in Pending) which got tags they're not really appropriate at all since Tags are used to find beatmaps to a song and/or artist. And not to work as a filter to determine training beatmaps, deathstream maps or beatmaps which can cause physical injury. The rule/guideline should describe that random tag should not be used and be removed, else it allows to put any random stuff into.

Beside of this point I want wish to include in the rule to not have typos in the tags, a known case is https://osu.ppy.sh/b/417144. The tag "kirisame" got mistyped by "kiraseme" and it got ignored while the ranking process, it got fixed by online tags but it still doesn't appear at in-game if I would search for "kirisame" but for "kiraseme". It's a really rare case but it's not written as guideline (perferably) so it should be mentioned beside of the first point.

Tags may not have typos and needs to be related to the music, either artist or song. This prevents confusion while searching for beatmaps for a specific tag. Exceptions are the usernames of Guest Mapper and/or Storyboarder and the previous username.
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
I agree with this
Mao
Elite Mapper II
2,963 posts
Joined December 2012
Mao
Already discussed this with Stefan, agreeing!
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
I thought mappers knew how to use them, but seeing those examples is a bit allarming: I wonder what will they put in the future if they're left like this.
Also, I'd like to point out how many people started inserting anime characters name where there is an anime ed/op. imo it's retarded: I saw a beatmap where all the 9 main characters' names where in there... Just why
I fully support this.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
While this should be common sense, I see no problem on this being a guideline.
Deimos
802 posts
Joined April 2012
Deimos
why would a guideline instead of a rule make more sense?

it would mean that it can be ignored when there is a valid reason, but are there any valid reasons?

A rule would fit much better for it.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Maybe put the typo-thing into the overall metadata-rule.
And write a message to Mazzerin and Fort as this seems to mainly reoccur in their mapsets? hi apparition, #deathstream
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
Oh, right, I forgot to say it.

Deimos wrote:

A rule would fit much better for it.
That's it.

As for the typos, seriously, it should be a general rule for everything, not just beatmap related or something. Do we really have to go that far and make a rule "to avoid typos"?

...
...
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg
While "rsi" naming itself is an arguable choice, its a good idea to make solid tag for a really top tier hard maps.
Is there any good reasons (aside from "not really appropriate") why beatmap difficulty, nature, techniques etc. related tags should be avoided? They also help to navigate among huge database -> which is their main and only purpose.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Stefan

Sieg wrote:

While "rsi" naming itself is an arguable choice, its a good idea to make solid tag for a really top tier hard maps.
Is there any good reasons (aside from "not really appropriate") why beatmap difficulty, nature, techniques etc. related tags should be avoided? They also help to navigate among huge database -> which is their main and only purpose.
Instead, we could request a fix when you sort the beatmaps by difficulty since it doesn't work for a longer time.
Karuta-_old_1
947 posts
Joined November 2009
Karuta-_old_1
Also could mappers please put tv size in their tags, it is kind of disappointing to see that it is a tv size after you download it
Sonnyc
7,761 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
Agree with the typo stuff. It shouldn't be made and is too obvious that such mistakes shouldn't happen. T.T

Anyways personally I'd like to extend the range as
Tags must not have typos and need to be related to the mapset. This prevents confusion while searching for beatmaps for a specific tag.
It will not make adding GD mappers or old username whatsoever as an exception at first. Also so-called arbitrary/random tags caused no problem to people at all. Making a narrow restriction will only cause trouble for mappers that never existed before, and I don't think such trouble worths its value. Tags are something "optional" at the first place, so only small and commonsensed rule would rather function properly considering it's original character.

Instead of encouraging mappers to "use" more appropriate or correct tags, why trying to "restrict" some random tags that damage no one?
Last edited by Sonnyc , edited 2 times in total.
Luvdic
2,113 posts
Joined July 2009
Luvdic
I disagree, the search engine shouldn´t be focused on finding songs, but rather beatmaps, so any keyword that might help players finding them is useful, even if the keywords are "deathstream" "training beatmap" "jump madness" "etc", since they are descriptions that could help you find the kind of beatmap that you want to play. Just remember that not everyone plays the maps for the songs, but rather because of the map itself.

Only abuse I see with tags is how some mappers fill the tags with words that does not help at all in finding the beatmap (as in filling tags with all main characters of an anime, who uses this to search beatmaps anyways?) And even then, it harms no one
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Stefan

Sonnyc wrote:

Anyways personally I'd like to extend the range as
Tags must not have typos and need to be related to the mapset. This prevents confusion while searching for beatmaps for a specific tag.
That would mean it still allows to use let's say "jump map" as Tag since the mapset contains a difficulty with very strong jumps. And that's not the intention in a music game.

Xanandra wrote:

Just remember that not everyone plays the maps for the songs, but rather because of the map itself.
Some are doing it wrong.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg
as I see this:
Tags are supposed to give information about a whole beatmap not only about a song. Since this is not a musical player but the rhythm game your intensions maybe in searching for a particular gameplay. I don't see why beatmap specific tags should be disallowed. Why people can't categorize content by gameplay?
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
t/288347

My opinion remains unchanged
Deimos
802 posts
Joined April 2012
Deimos
Metadata must be consistent across all difficulties. This is to ensure that searching is consistent and clean across a mapset.

using terms to describe a difficulty like "deathstream, jump", w/e may work for marathon maps with only one diffculty, but that won't work for mapsets with multiple difficulties

not all diffs in a mapset have deathstreams, not all diffs in a mapset have jumps, especially Easy and Normal
Luvdic
2,113 posts
Joined July 2009
Luvdic

Deimos wrote:

Metadata must be consistent across all difficulties. This is to ensure that searching is consistent and clean across a mapset.

using terms to describe a difficulty like "deathstream, jump", w/e may work for marathon maps with only one diffculty, but that won't work for mapsets with multiple difficulties

not all diffs in a mapset have deathstreams, not all diffs in a mapset have jumps, especially Easy and Normal
How about GD´s then? Not all guest mappers participates in all difficulties.

In any case, what´s more important is that if words such as "deathstream" etc are to be used as tags, then modders should make sure that the map are going to be known for whatever description they are giving in the tags
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
There is no reason to be too picky about tags. Let mappers add whatever they want when they think players might search for it, as long as it relates to the song / to the map / to the mapper (for example mapper's old usernames, names of GDers, deathstream, etc). More tags are better than less tags.

There are two things that should be avoided imo:

1) Inappropriate tags (swearwords, insults etc, you know what I mean)
2) Tags that may actually be searched for but will give a wrong impression of a map (for example if I add deathstream tag to my E/N mapset)

Otherwise I would be lenient here, seemingly "unnecessary" tags don't hurt anyone, and one day someone might search for it regardless.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu

Desperate-kun wrote:

There is no reason to be too picky about tags. Let mappers add whatever they want when they think players might search for it, as long as it relates to the song / to the map / to the mapper (for example mapper's old usernames, names of GDers, deathstream, etc). More tags are better than less tags.

There are two things that should be avoided imo:

1) Inappropriate tags (swearwords, insults etc, you know what I mean)
2) Tags that may actually be searched for but will give a wrong impression of a map (for example if I add deathstream tag to my E/N mapset)

Otherwise I would be lenient here, seemingly "unnecessary" tags don't hurt anyone, and one day someone might search for it regardless.
I can pretty much agree on this. Tags are for searching, thus anything what you'd search for could be a tag, apart from duplicates with title, artist, source etc.
For a deathstream as a tag, it's fine if the map contains the deathstream, if not, it's not needed. What Deimos said is just putting tags to separate difficulties, which is not needed, you search a map that contains the deathstream or the GD mapper - I am pretty sure you will know which difficulty you are looking for. If someone who is looking for deathstream gets easy difficulty shown, he can be pretty sure there may not be a deathstream and will just use the harder difficulty.

As long as tags are correct and related to map/song/mapper, it's imo completely fine to have freedom in usage of tags.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
Stefan
The intention of this thread is mainly to set a rule which disallows misplaced tags for beatmaps. For reasons you want to stick for tags such as "deathstreams" but why we also don't allow to put "BPM 160" for a 160 BPM song? or "bpm change" for Beatmaps with multiple BPMs and/or inconsistent speed? It's simply unnecessary also because around 5% of the mapper (ranked and unranked) are using such tags. We should go a consistent way. :P
Luvdic
2,113 posts
Joined July 2009
Luvdic

Stefan wrote:

The intention of this thread is mainly to set a rule which disallows misplaced tags for beatmaps. For reasons you want to stick for tags such as "deathstreams" but why we also don't allow to put "BPM 160" for a 160 BPM song? or "bpm change" for Beatmaps with multiple BPMs and/or inconsistent speed? It's simply unnecessary also because around 5% of the mapper (ranked and unranked) are using such tags. We should go a consistent way. :P
Talking about unnecessary tags... Just to mention a few from checking the latest ranked maps:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/361790 "prisma☆illya" I dare to bet that no one would ever use the search engine with the star symbol, making it a completely unnecessary tag. Everyone would just search for "prisma illya" in any case which is already included in the tags

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/360491 "the" Using the word "the" as a keyword for your tags is completely irrelevant considering how often this word is used and it doesn't help much for the search.

And I'm sure that everyone believes that they are fine to be added as tags.

If it's so wrong about adding map's description as tags, then why add "beatmapping contest" as tags for the cysmix mapsets? It has absolutely nothing to do with the song or artist, and yet it is there to mark thenature of the mapset.

And as for the BPM stuff, it is because it is irrelevant information since you can already search directly by BPM. As I said, there should be no problem as long as these tags really do describe the mapset, and are going to be known for that description put on tags.

What I am really against your proposal, is that your taking away any other extra tags that could be useful for search purposes if it ha snothing related to song/artist/music, and as I have said earlier, search should be focused on the maps, not on the song, at least in my opinion. The fact that most people will play a specific map because of the song that's just another matter.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
The typos mention isn't really needed. In that case, you should put "No typos allowed" in every single rule. Makes no sense, right?

About the supposedly irrelevant tags, like "deathstream", it would be handy when people wants certain types of beatmaps. Again, tags are supposed to help to searching the beatmap. Just don't put stupid/troll tags and everything will be fine.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
I agree with Desperate-kun. Tag-leniency is nice because not everything can be found simply by searching up conventional names/artists

One good example is: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/293233

Where the mapper tags parts of the lyrics because the title/artist is really complex but the song lyrics are easy to remember (or hard to forget, lol).


On the topic of tags, can we increase the 100 tag limit so I can add all 785 tags onto my anime song medley? <3.
CSLM
1,058 posts
Joined May 2013
CSLM
I'll give my opinion about this.
The tags are supposed to search a beatmap, not a song. Also if the tags are related to how it's the beatmap (like "deatstream", "jumps map", etc...) i think it a lot better for the people which are searching a harder map imo.

But:

Deimos wrote:

Metadata must be consistent across all difficulties. This is to ensure that searching is consistent and clean across a mapset.

using terms to describe a difficulty like "deathstream, jump", w/e may work for marathon maps with only one diffculty, but that won't work for mapsets with multiple difficulties

not all diffs in a mapset have deathstreams, not all diffs in a mapset have jumps, especially Easy and Normal
.

I'm agree with this too.

The proposite of the tags (how i said before) are for search a Beatmap, not a Difficulty itself from a Beatmap. A Ranked Mapset should have General Tags (that means only about the song/artist 'cause the only general tag for a full mapset will be the BPM, right?), meanwhile an Approved Mapset with just one difficulty should have Specific and General Tags (specific about the difficulty, like "deathstreams", "jumps", etc... together with the song/artist tags).

I'm agree with the typos. The tags should be writed rightly for avoid confusions later.

In conclusion, i think the purposal should be this:

Tags may not have typos and needs to be related to the music, either artist or song. Exceptions are the usernames of Guest Mapper and/or Storyboarder, their previous username and approval mapsets which have just one difficulty. This prevents confusion while searching for beatmaps for a specific tag.
pkhg
2,507 posts
Joined May 2010
pkhg


i dont think this need a rule, its common sense and its better if its handed case by case



tbh
Mafumafu
Nomination Assessment Team
3,373 posts
Joined August 2013
Mafumafu
But still, the question is, what are related to the song?
It is just like custom diff names that with some excessive explaining then anything can have sth to do with the song lol
Shulin
1,189 posts
Joined August 2009
Shulin
Whilst some tags might be redundant and unnecessary their inclusion doesn't really harm anyone. I also don't see the problem with people using gameplay related tags either. If tags are outright wrong e.g. incorrect album tag, then that should be corrected during the modding process and even if it escapes modding surely it's possible to delete a tag without disqualifying a map?

I think what tags are relevant to a map is really at the discretion of the mapper and I don't think many mappers are resistant to adding more tags if relevant.

I don't think a rule or guideline is really necessary for this.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete.
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