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Something i want to mention about slider mapping

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17
walaowey
952 posts
Joined March 2012
Topic Starter
walaowey
Hi there, firstly, i'm not sure whether i'm in the right forum or not.. anyway i'm gonna post it first :P

there's actually something i notice in recent map,
mapper nowadays like to add a circle under previous slider. its actually hard to read especially for HD player like me >< (I'm not sure about other HD player though, but its definitely bugging me..they usually cause me to miss/break .. or maybe i'm just too noob and can't play them :P)..

And sorry if i offense the mappers who use this type of mapping style.. but its really trolling especially when u miss at the end of the map because of this type of pattern :cry:

i usually memorize this type of pattern, but its still hard though if its in the end of the map, because you know, i usually got nervous in the end..and miss it very easily lol

I try to recreate them in the editor.. here they are :

Example 1

the default skin
-as you can see, the 3 is hiding under the slider and its barely noticable.. (it will be even harder if its with HD mod)


This is with the skin i'm using (transparent skin)
Its still quite hard to notice even with my transparent skin :?

Example 2

default skin
-the triplets is hiding under the previous slider tail..even if i notice it, i'll still thought it is a single circle and didnt expect it to be triplets lol.. (quite trolling for me :P)


my skin

Example 3

default skin


my skin

Example 4

default skin
-lol, the circle it on the slider head.. its more hard to notice.. I usually memorize them though ><


my skin

Example 5

default skin


my skin

edit: This type of thing is hard to describe, its better if you try it out personally :D

let's discuss about this lol
Last edited by walaowey , edited 1 time in total.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Play less Hidden.
Even tho i dislike the created fake-DS too. This can be nicely done and lame like most other things too.
"Context is everything" to cite Charles. Your examples have no context therefore you can't say it's good or bad.
A Medic
460 posts
Joined May 2013
A Medic
Putting a note under a slider is actually an extremely common mapping technique.
It can't really be described as trolling per se.
walaowey
952 posts
Joined March 2012
Topic Starter
walaowey

Endaris wrote:

Play less Hidden.
Even tho i dislike the created fake-DS too. This can be nicely done and lame like most other things too.
"Context is everything" to cite Charles. Your examples have no context therefore you can't say it's good or bad.
yeah, that's why I didnt say its good or bad, i'm just giving out my personal opinion only.
It could be myself that i cant read this type of pattern..I just want to hear more opinion about this ><


A Medic wrote:

Putting a note under a slider is actually an extremely common mapping technique.
It can't really be described as trolling per se.
yeah and this type of pattern is increasing . its everywhere lol.
but yeah, it might be me only that thinks its trolling :P
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
While there are certainly some cases where it's really hard or impossible to read an overlapped note correctly the first time, in most of the cases you can read them from stacking, follow points, understanding the map or just a good ol' guess (For example, if a similar part of the song earlier had constant 1/2 rhythm, and there's suddenly a note missing in this section of the map, there's a good chance something's stacked).

Maps are mapped with the intention that it's played with no mod. Adding mods is not being accounted for when determining rankability of a map, as it's an alternative you can choose for yourself. With no mod all of your examples are readable (and I'd argue most if not all of them are probably readable with hidden as well).

All of your examples can be read with follow points, except the stacks, which should get stacked automatically during gameplay anyway and will be readable from that.
Rilene
2,105 posts
Joined April 2014
Rilene
This technique is completely normal, unless if there are huge spacing then a note under a slider then it would be a trouble to sight read.
pkhg
2,507 posts
Joined May 2010
pkhg
stacking stuff on slidertails is bad ;w;
Rilene
2,105 posts
Joined April 2014
Rilene

pkhg wrote:

stacking stuff on slidertails is bad ;w;
This.
Little
2,509 posts
Joined November 2012
Little
Personally, I find circles stacked under slider ends to be fine. They are easy to read due to the presence of a number in the circle, where there is no number on the slider end. I find it harder to read circles stacked under slider heads for this reason. However, I wouldn't say this is a bad mapping technique. Sometimes, this kind of mapping can look really nice, or have nice flow, and I don't really think it hurts the gameplay too much, unless the stack leniency is really low.
Rilene
2,105 posts
Joined April 2014
Rilene

Little wrote:

Personally, I find circles stacked under slider ends to be fine. They are easy to read due to the presence of a number in the circle, where there is no number on the slider end. I find it harder to read circles stacked under slider heads for this reason. However, I wouldn't say this is a bad mapping technique. Sometimes, this kind of mapping can look really nice, or have nice flow, and I don't really think it hurts the gameplay too much, unless the stack leniency is really low.
Note under the slider's end is a hell at a old maps where stack leniency is exactly 0 while using HD.
Especially EZHD.
dung eater
2,396 posts
Joined December 2013
dung eater
I don't think you should think about how it looks like with hd at all when you map. I find stacking stuff fun to try and read from approach circles.

Mods are supposed to be an extra challenge. If something is really hard to read with x mod it's totally fine imo.

Mapping so it's easily readable with ez/hd/fl is fine and nice for those who play them (I like maps that don't have much overlapping patterns with ez ,_,), but it shouldn't be something required.
walaowey
952 posts
Joined March 2012
Topic Starter
walaowey
ughh everyone, sorry for not replying , I've completely forget about this post ._.
I remember this post again when i saw the changelog for the update recently talking about the changes in HD mod xD
anyway, i think this mapping style should be ok now with the new feature in the cutting edge version, we can see the notes hiding under previous slider clearly.

"Fade out slider bodies when hidden is active." (Its in the changelog lol, in cutting edge btw)
Little
2,509 posts
Joined November 2012
Little
This new change makes Hidden way too easy. Now there really is no challenge in Hidden mod at all...
Free pp for all. :(
walaowey
952 posts
Joined March 2012
Topic Starter
walaowey

Little wrote:

This new change makes Hidden way too easy. Now there really is no challenge in Hidden mod at all...
Free pp for all. :(
Ikr, now that i think of it, its making HD too easy lol
tbh, i like it bcoz we can see those notes hiding under slider tail easier, but those fading out slider body kinda make the whole gameplay feels weird lol..
It feels like the slider fade out too fast and cause the screen to be quite empty ><

Edit : Ok, i just found out that long slider is a little hard to play @@
basically we have to memorize the pattern, because while the slider is sliding, the slider body had already fade out lol
Kendai_old
2 posts
Joined November 2008
Kendai_old
Count me as someone who thinks the challenge should be getting the rhythm right more than trying to read the map.

Personally, I think stacks should be sequential. I feel like the mp is just out to trick me when There's a sort of back and forth.

Like one circle after a slider, and then another circle right where the slider just was.
colepull
12 posts
Joined March 2015
colepull

CXu wrote:

While there are certainly some cases where it's really hard or impossible to read an overlapped note correctly the first time, in most of the cases you can read them from stacking, follow points, understanding the map or just a good ol' guess (For example, if a similar part of the song earlier had constant 1/2 rhythm, and there's suddenly a note missing in this section of the map, there's a good chance something's stacked).

Maps are mapped with the intention that it's played with no mod. Adding mods is not being accounted for when determining rankability of a map, as it's an alternative you can choose for yourself. With no mod all of your examples are readable (and I'd argue most if not all of them are probably readable with hidden as well).

All of your examples can be read with follow points, except the stacks, which should get stacked automatically during gameplay anyway and will be readable from that.
qx ccxvb cdf
Dexxo
49 posts
Joined July 2015
Dexxo
I'm not sure why I feel it necessary to revive this thread, but I happened upon it at the top of this section and started reading it down.

The mapping technique is (imo) done on purpose to surprise or confuse you. Because yes, it is sometimes hard to catch. With or without HD.

Here is the kicker though, a lot of what boils down to effective sight-reading is having a good skin tailored to your style. If you had more of, or more obvious follow-points, or perhaps even transparent hit-circles that are clearly numbered in the center. Hell, even the approach circles color scheme and thickness/size can effect your ability to sight read better. So, in my opinion, I think your difficulty (or even some players in general) with this could probably be fixed with the right skin.
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