Greetings.
Today we have 2 modes which can change ar directly - easy and hard rock.
Meanwhile, these modes affect the whole gameplay.
I think that way of changing AR is became obsolete.
Even in osu!mania you have free choice of that. You can choose speed that you want (in fact, you can even choose amount of playable keys!). Why standard hasn't same? Why we must to suffer because of low (high) AR? Not all mappers are good players, and it is okay, that they don't know which AR is good for playing their map.

So.
Mode "AR+" and "AR-" can easily fix this problem. Like a set of "4K-5K-6K..." mania-modes. In our case it will be (+0.1, +0.2, ... +1.0) and (-0.1, -0.2, ... -1.0)
I think a lot of players want it to be relised.
Easy to realize, imo. Simple. Effective. Doesn't affect gameplay.

Why not?

Sh1ni wrote:

Greetings.

Hi

Sh1ni wrote:

Today we have 2 modes which can change ar directly - easy and hard rock.
Meanwhile, these modes affect the whole gameplay.
It completely became obsolete.

These aren't really obsolete, you just say that cause they're as old as the game.

Sh1ni wrote:

Even in osu!mania you have free choice of that. You can choose speed that you want (in fact, you can even choose amount of playable keys!).

For the speed, the main reason is because it's the case in all mania games. For the amount of keys, it's the only mode where you could add that choice anyway.

Sh1ni wrote:

Why standard hasn't same? Why we must to suffer because of low (high) AR? Not all mappers are good players, and it is okay, that they don't know which AR is good for playing their map.

If you suffer because of that, it might be because you're 1. not used to it 2. not good enough or 3. because you simply don't like low/high AR's (also these are subjective, AR9 is high for some people, low for others)

Sh1ni wrote:

So.
Mode "AR+" and "AR-" can easily fix this problem. Like a set of "4K-5K-6K..." mania-modes. In our case it will be (+0.1, +0.2, ... +1.0) and (-0.1, -0.2, ... -1.0)
I think a lot of players want it to be relised.
Easy to realize, imo. Simple. Effective. Doesn't affect gameplay.

AR is a part of the gameplay, so changing it would alter the gameplay. Sometimes, the mappers choose on purpose to use an uncommon AR for a difficulty to add a challenge(changing the AR alone can ruin a map) and is very often hated by some people. (and concerning what you said on quality of mappers, you should know that there is the QAT that can un qualify a map if the AR is really wrong. And if you like especially one AR, it's your personnal preferrence)

Sh1ni wrote:

Why not?

In my opinion, there's no reason to do so. You should just train the points you're weak at...including low and high AR.

Sh1ni wrote:

Greetings.
Why standard hasn't same? Why we must to suffer because of low (high) AR? Not all mappers are good players, and it is okay, that they don't know which AR is good for playing their map.

No AR is something that is up to the mapper, if you can't play a certain map with an specific AR, then you need to practice more. I'll really dislike if people are free to changes the settings that I did choose in my maps. Beatmap settings should be choose by the creator and no one else, what the next OD? CS? no pls

Of course if lowering or increasing AR lower the score and the pp you get then is ok.

Remyria wrote:

These aren't really obsolete, you just say that cause they're as old as the game.

Fixed.

Remyria wrote:

For the speed, the main reason is because it's the case in all mania games. For the amount of keys, it's the only mode where you could add that choice anyway.

No. o!m is just flexible. o!s is not. And it's need to be changed.

Remyria wrote:

If you suffer because of that, it might be because you're 1. not used to it 2. not good enough or 3. because you simply don't like low/high AR's (also these are subjective, AR9 is high for some people, low for others)

Well, I'm sure that I'm not the only who suffer. And you're actually... Blaming other person, that he isn't good enough, meanwhile you're waaay-way-way less experienced?
Okay. :^)

Remyria wrote:

AR is a part of the gameplay, so changing it would alter the gameplay. Sometimes, the mappers choose on purpose to use an uncommon AR for a difficulty to add a challenge(changing the AR alone can ruin a map) and is very often hated by some people. (and concerning what you said on quality of mappers, you should know that there is the QAT that can un qualify a map if the AR is really wrong. And if you like especially one AR, it's your personnal preferrence)

Well, it's time to change it. Reading is just a thing, that making osu! worse. I want to have a choice between "I want to practice reading" and "I want to play with AR that comfortable for me".
unqalify? Did you see last ranked dragonforce map? 6.2* 8.5AR?
Btw, there is stil willl be geniuses of reading, they won't lose their popularity.

Remyria wrote:

In my opinion, there's no reason to do so. You should just train the points you're weak at...including low and high AR.

There is no reason to vote against flexibilty.



My position, that player might have choice.
Not the mapper. More than that, players are... Different, you know?
So something that fast for someone might be slow for someone else. There is no ideal AR which is good for every player.
That's why I think that it must be done.

Meanwhile mappers can be...

"HUEHUE GO PLAY 8.5AR
U CAN'T. OH, HOW SADFUL, BUT OKAY, IT'S ONLY BECAUSE YOU'RE BAD AND YOU NEED TO SPENT MORE TIME FOR PRACTICING AT CLICKING FREAKING CIRCLES!"
Well, I appreciate that. Thank you, that you are making care about players.

Natsu wrote:

No AR is something that is up to the mapper, if you can't play a certain map with an specific AR, then you need to practice more. I'll really dislike if people are free to changes the settings that I did choose in my maps. Beatmap settings should be choose by the creator and no one else, what the next OD? CS? no pls

No, you're just a mapper, who wants set AR which he wants.
And let me decise what I need by myself: Practice more, or try to change the world at forums.
It is really my business.
And you know...
It won't make worse anything. (Maybe ego of mappers, which won't be able to making decises for others, okay.)

P.S.
I know, that forum used mostly by mappers, and I feel that I'm on enemy battlefield. But okay, I'm ready to fight.
P.P.S.
I really love the game, and I just want to make it even better.

Insulting a good chunk of the community is most likely not the way to go about this if you really want something. You also do realise that every mapper is a player of the game as well, right?

Someone "less experienced" than you doesn't have to agree with your view/opinion on things, you know?

Anyhow, yes, it is your fault for not being able to read a map properly because of AR. This game isn't called "osu!mania", so that has nothing to do with this game (or taiko or CtB for that matter). Reading has been a part of the game since the beginning. Changing the AR at will without any point reduction would be the same as changing, say, the speed of the map itself. "Some players are just different you know. Some can go fast, others can go slow!" It's a silly reason.

And as a player, you do have a choice. You can edit the map, and play it with ar10 if you want to. Just don't expect your play to count since you essentially changed the map to make it easier for yourself.

There is this feature request somewhere about changing the easy mod to allow you to freely change all difficulty settings, which would include this as well, but I'm lazy to go look for it.

CXu wrote:

Insulting a good chunk of the community is most likely not the way to go about this if you really want something. You also do realise that every mapper is a player of the game as well, right?

So you're saying that I need to lick all of your asses? Thank you, mate. I won't.
I'm just speaking on language that others speak to me. I'm not see that someone was glad about my post, so why I needed to be gentleman, when all like spitting my face? We are even, aren't we? Eye for an eye, you know.

CXu wrote:

Someone "less experienced" than you doesn't have to agree with your view/opinion on things, you know?

So it is a fact that making available to say to another person: you're bad?
I don't think so.

CXu wrote:

Anyhow, yes, it is your fault for not being able to read a map properly because of AR. This game isn't called "osu!mania", so that has nothing to do with this game (or taiko or CtB for that matter). Reading has been a part of the game since the beginning. Changing the AR at will without any point reduction would be the same as changing, say, the speed of the map itself. "Some players are just different you know. Some can go fast, others can go slow!" It's a silly reason.

Why it is silly reason? Why, mate? Any argues? Any facts? No?
So nice job.
And... Oh no, I'm bad again. Why do I suck so hard...

CXu wrote:

And as a player, you do have a choice. You can edit the map, and play it with ar10 if you want to. Just don't expect your play to count since you essentially changed the map to make it easier for yourself.

I'm doing it. And I don't getting any reward by good plays, and I think it's unfair. Because of ego of mappers. :^)
And yes, silly arguement.

CXu wrote:

There is this feature request somewhere about changing the easy mod to allow you to freely change all difficulty settings, which would include this as well, but I'm lazy to go look for it.

Changing easy-mode will affect easy-mode players. They won't be rare. It is actually affecting gameplay.
Meanwhile AR+/AR- not.

To make you understand. I do respect mappers. But how I can judge by this topic, mappers doesn't respect players. You're like living in your world of osu!.
I saw only acts of conservatism.
It is really making me sad.

Natsu wrote:

I'll really dislike if people are free to changes the settings that I did choose in my maps. Beatmap settings should be choose by the creator and no one else, what the next OD? CS? no pls

ooohh mannnnn i can go to the editor too and change the AR setting on everyone's map as much as i like, even they are not angry at all

CXu wrote:

There is this feature request somewhere about changing the easy mod to allow you to freely change all difficulty settings, which would include this as well, but I'm lazy to go look for it.

Maybe this t/141204&start=0 but i don't know.

BTT: This is nice, but just make it as an unranked mod, same like Autopilot and Relax. Don't try to tease BAD player that wants to practice AR8 or whatever.


EDIT: Damn, delete all of the swear words that you made, it will be a bait with a fucking over 5 page full of war. Wait, i'll grab some popcorn first,

If you don't understand that reading is a skill, and the fact that if you can't read, you lack in skill in reading, then that's your problem, not anyone else. No one insulted your ego, all they said was that you (either you specifically, or anyone in general) might not be good enough to read. If the reason you want to change this is because you can't read AR, how are they wrong? They're not, and all you do back is saying that mappers are egoistical, and don't respect or care about players.

You can go eat a muffin. If there were no mappers mapping, you wouldn't have anything to play. If anything, you're disrespecting the very people that makes it possible for you to play this game.


The point of EZ is to make the game easier. The main point of that feature request is to allow for changing all difficulty settings at a variable score reduction cost.
Changing EZ for that won't affect any EZ mode scores currently, as all you have to do is make the score reduction match up. Making AR changeable however, affects every player that has set a low/high ar score that is difficult because of the ar (and thus many other players can't set).

And how can making reading easier not affect gameplay? Reading is a part of gameplay. Yes, you're changing gameplay by playing hr as well, that's why pp treats hr as a new map.

Edit:
Also, no you don't need to "lick all of your asses". That doesn't mean you should be an ass. It's not going to help you.

Sh1ni wrote:

No, you're just a mapper, who wants set AR which he wants.

Yeah I'm just a mapper that rarely play, but also a modder for like 3 years, and I'm sure why I'm setting certain AR at my maps and I don't want people to change stuff at my map (CS AR HP OD) yeah settings are also part of the map. Also the mod you are asking for should reduce pp and score, since alot of people will go for AR10 or the ar that they find easy to play.

Ameth Rianno wrote:

Natsu wrote:

I'll really dislike if people are free to changes the settings that I did choose in my maps. Beatmap settings should be choose by the creator and no one else, what the next OD? CS? no pls

ooohh mannnnn i can go to the editor too and change the AR setting on everyone's map as much as i like, even they are not angry at all

Well, people don't really care much what you do privately. It's only when you change AR/OD/HP/CS specifically to make it easier, and then complain that "if just X then I would get pp from Y!". It's basically only a problem if that score counts as much as a non-changed score that it becomes a problem in this case really.

CXu wrote:

If you don't understand that reading is a skill, and the fact that if you can't read, you lack in skill in reading, then that's your problem, not anyone else. No one insulted your ego, all they said was that you (either you specifically, or anyone in general) might not be good enough to read. If the reason you want to change this is because you can't read AR, how are they wrong? They're not, and all you do back is saying that mappers are egoistical, and don't respect or care about players.

Sh1ni wrote:

Well, it's time to change it. Reading is just a thing, that making osu! worse. I want to have a choice between "I want to practice reading" and "I want to play with AR that comfortable for me".
unqalify? Did you see last ranked dragonforce map? 6.2* 8.5AR?
Btw, there is stil willl be geniuses of reading, they won't lose their popularity.

I want to add, reading must be an OPTIONAL part of skill.
It is a pain in the ass, which must to be cured.

Natsu wrote:

Yeah I'm just a mapper that rarely play, but also a modder for like 3 years, and I'm sure why I'm setting certain AR at my maps and I don't want people to change stuff at my map (CS AR HP OD) yeah settings are also part of the map. Also the mod you are asking for should reduce pp and score, since alot of people will go for AR10 or the ar that they find easy to play.

Why? Just why? Higher AR doesn't giving any pp, as well as lower. Why this mode should reduce pp? Any arguements?

Why should it be an optional part of skill though?

pp already is buffed/reduced in relation to AR btw.

CXu wrote:

Why should it be an optional part of skill though?

pp already is buffed/reduced in relation to AR btw.

>>>> It is a pain in the ass, which must to be cured.
Are you blind?

No, I'm not blind. I'm asking you for an argument, not your random subjective opinion.
"Man, I can't stream 300bpm. Speed should be an optional part of skill since it's a pain in the ass to get better at streaming 300bpm!"
Your "argument" is silly.

Sh1ni wrote:

Natsu wrote:

Yeah I'm just a mapper that rarely play, but also a modder for like 3 years, and I'm sure why I'm setting certain AR at my maps and I don't want people to change stuff at my map (CS AR HP OD) yeah settings are also part of the map. Also the mod you are asking for should reduce pp and score, since alot of people will go for AR10 or the ar that they find easy to play.

Why? Just why? Higher AR doesn't giving any pp, as well as lower. Why this mode should reduce pp? Any arguements?

because that mod will make the map easier to play for you and others, some people are good at low AR and (mostly) at high AR, so yeah, why should something easy to play give you the same amount of score or pp?

Why we must to suffer because of low (high) AR?
Why we must to suffer because of low (high) CS?
Why we must to suffer because of small (big) Jumps?
Why we must to suffer because of fast (slow) sliders?

Sounds like we need even more new modes to avoid "suffering” from maps.

imoutosan wrote:

Why we must to suffer because of low (high) AR?
Why we must to suffer because of low (high) CS?
Why we must to suffer because of small (big) Jumps?
Why we must to suffer because of fast (slow) sliders?

Sounds like we need even more new modes to avoid "suffering” from maps.

No no no, that's not how do you consider it. It's really a "suffer" when trying an EZ mode on an extra difficulty.


i hate pp
just make it unranked instead
or mark this thread as a duplicated thread because t/141204&start=0

CXu wrote:

No, I'm not blind. I'm asking you for an argument, not your random subjective opinion.
"Man, I can't stream 300bpm. Speed should be an optional part of skill since it's a pain in the ass to get better at streaming 300bpm!"
Your "argument" is silly.

My argument is silly in only in your subjective opinion, which in my opinion is silliest thing ever. Will we argue which is our opinions and arguments is silliest?

Okay, I will send last post for you, because you think YOUR subjective opinion is OBJECTIVE. And argue with people who thinks that is just stupid. You can stay in front of mirror and admire by yourself, oh god, you're so good. Yes.
Message.
AR is really not worth at all. Speed*spacing and od is only things that counts.
Meanwhile maps can be SO DIFFICULT because of AR.
What we have in sum:
Making map difficult doesn't reward player at all.
Total nonsense, imo.
And it is easier to make a AR+/AR- mode than remake whole pp-system, don't you?

Natsu wrote:

because that mod will make the map easier to play for you and others, some people are good at low AR and (mostly) at high AR, so yeah, why should something easy to play give you the same amount of score or pp?

Others can do it too.
People which good at high AR are good players. They won't lose any pp, and will be able to farm pp even better, because of new options.
New options, which every player can use.
I think it is much better than current system: you actually need to eat some siht before you will be a good player. Because of READING-CIRCLES-SKILLS.
It's enough that osu! is difficult because of high speed and big jumps. Let us do impossible things in that area, by decreasing painful system of reading.
I will say it again, it will be comfortable for all.

What about old records? Well, other records will be still weighted well.
Other records still will be legendary. Because of map difficulty. Because it was a long time a go.
And stop live in the past.
Current top are... Dead. Week will pass and it will be great if some numerals of top players will change. EVEN ONE. Even if it will be one digit. It is so static.
AR+/AR- actually can return some kind of dynamic, because of new possibilities.

imoutosan wrote:

Why we must to suffer because of low (high) AR?
Why we must to suffer because of low (high) CS?
Why we must to suffer because of small (big) Jumps?
Why we must to suffer because of fast (slow) sliders?

Sounds like we need even more new modes to avoid "suffering” from maps.

Sliders is trouble, which can't be fixed by fast solution like this.
CS and jumps are well pp-weighten, so it's okay.
About AR - you can read above.

"Reading is a skill". This is a fact, not an opinion.
"Reading is a useless skill", this is an opinion, not a fact.

That's all I have to say to whatever you said to me, everything else you said was either you insulting me, or more subjective opinion.

quick solution to your problems you seem to have with reading: turn on HR and never turn it off unless you want to challenge your reading

there, now every insane is AR10 and you don't ever have to bother with anything else unless you want to
changing the game with a mode that lets you change AR on a whim when reading has been a big part of the game since 2007 would be retarded, even more so just because "reading is a pain in the ass"
what you really mean is that you're just too lazy to learn what everyone else has had to learn for the past 8 years

this thread should just be shut down because this discussion isn't going anywhere and isn't helping anyone at all

Kotayo wrote:

quick solution to your problems you seem to have with reading: turn on HR and never turn it off unless you want to challenge your reading
...
what you really mean is that you're just too lazy to learn what everyone else has had to learn for the past 8 years

Well, I'm trying HR now. I'm actually not a newbie in this game.
And you know, HR is decreasing cs. There is a lot of maps cs5 ar8-9 which can't be played well with hr. Dead maps.
OH, NOW I NEED TO LEARN PLAY CS6.5 AND IT IS ONLY MY PROBLEM.
^There is how you're offer solutions of problems. "we don't give a f*ck, and if you tore your ass you can play these maps with HR. So it is your options, get out of here. F*ck you with your wishes of new options"

And why all of you talking about my personality? =/

In sum: I think osu! need more options. It won't kill the HR, because HR still gives od10.

Kotayo wrote:

...reading has been a big part of the game since 2007 would be retarded, even more so just because "reading is a pain in the ass"

Key-word is has been. And 2007 already passed. Some years ago. 8, actually.

Kotayo wrote:

this thread should just be shut down because this discussion isn't going anywhere and isn't helping anyone at all

Only because of conservatism of mappers.

it would be nice if this existed to make some old songs playable (or practicing), even if it's unranked. ar6/5 is hard and the only other option is ar7/8.4 with cs6.5

"only bag on 1x is valid"

OperaMini0 wrote:

it would be nice if this existed to make some old songs playable (or practicing), even if it's unranked. ar6/5 is hard and the only other option is ar7/8.4 with cs6.5

"only bag on 1x is valid"

You can edit the map to other difficulty settings.

wtf