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Taiko Specific Map Guidelines

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Rokodo
1,104 posts
Joined August 2008
Topic Starter
Rokodo
These guidelines are based on authentic Taiko no Tatsujin games and should be followed in order to produce a fun and enjoyable taiko specific map.


Note Colours and Sounds

Red (Don) = Normal hitsound
Blue (Ka/Kat) = Clap or Whistle
Big Note = Finish


Difficulty Settings and Song Setup

It is hard to comment on these as they require qualitative decision making, but for a standard difficulty similar to Taiko no Tatsujin settings, use this setup:


Custom combo colours do not really matter to taiko as they will be overridden in actual gameplay. The case is the same with combo numbering, but you may wish to use the numbering to mark out red/blue notes visually within edit mode (assuming no custom colours have been set):


Remember to set other settings accordingly:

(More details on some of these can be found in the sections below.)


Stack leniency doesn't apply to a taiko map, I just leave the setting as it is default or the same as the map I am working from in the case of a guest map. Set Taiko as the allowed mode.


Countdown

Don't use countdown on a taiko specific map. If the notes start too quickly, add a lead-in time.


Slider Velocity

1.4 is the standard slider velocity that is recommended to be used in taiko specific maps.
1.5 and 1.6 may be tolerable in some cases with a slower BPM.
The slider velocity figure affects the spacing of all the notes in taiko mode.


Finish Notes

These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour. To be safe, leave at least a 1/2 beat between a finish note and any other note or object in the map.

Below - 1/2 beat spacing between a normal circle and a finish circle in a taiko specific map (1.4 slider velocity):


There is an exception to the finish note rule, see note streams below.*


Note Streams

For the majority of maps, only 1/2 or 1/4 beat note streams should be used.

For some maps, a sequence of 4 notes in a 1/6 stream may be used. Below is a visual example of this under 1.4 slider velocity:


For some of the hardest maps, 1/6 or 1/8 patterns weaved into 1/4 streams may be acceptable, especially at the beginning or end of the streams. This is not recommended unless you know what you are doing or have access to someone who is knowledgeable about authentic Taiko no Tatsujin maps. Below is an example of a 1/8 pattern weaved into a 1/4 stream (1.4 slider velocity):


Some songs may have sections where a 1/3 stream is more appropriate within certain sections of it (1.4 slider velocity):


*Here lies the exception to the finish note rule, where it may be used at the end of a 1/3 beat stream as long as that stream does not have any objects after it within a 1/2 beat space:



Kiai Time

Kiai (a concept based on Taiko no Tatsujin's "go go time") sections are only to be used for the chorus(es) of a song. Do not use short "flashes" of kiai like you might use in an osu! standard map. The maximum number of kiai sections to be used in a taiko specific map is 3.


Note Combo

The majority of authentic Taiko no Tatsujin maps are kept to 999 notes or below. This does not have to be enforced in osu!
Special note combos may be used to signify certain points of relevance. For example, in Taiko no Tatsujin 765 is a Namco reference.
Refer to someone with current knowledge of authentic games to find out more.


Sliders

Drumrolls in Taiko no Tatsujin. Use sparingly within a map and keep a 1/2 beat space between them and any other object. Try not to put sliders one after each other - 2 or 3 in a row may be acceptable in some cases.


Spinners

These should be used sparingly as they represent the bonus notes from Taiko no Tatsujin. Not completing a spinner does not effect whether you full combo or S a map. Do not put more than 2 spinners in a row.
Normal use: Leave at least a 1/2 beat between a note and a spinner, or 1/2 a beat between a slider and a spinner.
Exception use: You may put a spinner at the end of a note stream, 1/4, 1/6 or 1/8.


BPM Changes

Unnecessary BPM changes are not recommended unless the song has a relatively low BPM. In this case, 2 x BPM should only be used for kiai time.

When changing BPM it is advisable not to have notes visually overlapping during gameplay as this is unnecessarily confusing for the player. One method of remedying this is to use a series of slowing slider velocity sections:


Note in the example above that multiple slider velocities are used to show a visual slowdown of notes, without the 0.5 section being "overlapped" by the final note preceding it.


Break Sections

Taiko specific maps should not contain any break sections whatsoever.


Custom Hitbursts

These can be overridden by a taiko skin at the player's discretion. It is therefore advised not to assign custom hitbursts to a taiko map.


Custom Hitsounds

Don't use them in taiko specific maps. Keep volume at a consistent level (e.g. 70%) in keeping with the song throughout all timing sections, with the beat still somewhat audible. A softer song calls for a softer drumbeat, but not an inaudible one.
Last edited by Rokodo , edited 13 times in total.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
My thinkings about this guidelines.

Rokodo wrote:

Slider Velocity

1.4 is the standard slider velocity that is recommended to be used in taiko specific maps. 1.6 is becoming increasingly popular, however.
The slider velocity figure affects the spacing of all the notes in taiko mode.
I STRONGLY RECOMMEND to use SV 1.4, and actually, I hate other slider velocity.

Rokodo wrote:

Finish Notes

These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour. To be safe, leave at least a 1/2 beat between a finish note and any other note or object in the map.
Also, big notes in 1/4, 1/6, 1/8 are too hard for reading patterns.

Rokodo wrote:

Kiai Time

Kiai sections are only to be used for the chorus(es) of a song. Do not use short "flashes" of kiai like you might do for a standard map. The maximum number of kiai sections to be used in a taiko specific map is 3.
Maximum number of Kiai isn't that important as I think, but usually they don't need to be used over 3 times because of composition of the songs.

Rokodo wrote:

Note Combo

Keep the circle count of taiko specific maps at 999 or below. (In accordance with Taiko no Tatsujin rules.)
My case I don't care others making maps over 999 combos if the song is too long, but I tend to keep this rule.

Rokodo wrote:

BPM Changes

Unnecessary BPM changes are not recommended unless the song has a relatively low BPM. In this case, 2 x BPM should only be used for kiai time.
Sometimes 2 x BPM is used in whole song, though it's rare.

Rokodo wrote:

Break Sections

Taiko specific maps should not contain any break sections whatsoever.
I don't care about this when I map full ver. (like over 3:30 min) of the song, but I tend to avoid to put breaks. It can be replaced by relatively simple patterns...

Rokodo wrote:

Custom Hitbursts

At the time of writing there is no way to turn of custom hitbursts in map sets unless the files were deleted from the beatmap folder. It is highly recommended that you do not use custom hitbursts if there is a taiko specifc map in the mapset. The hitbursts at the time of writing this guide cannot be overridden with the standard taiko skin hitbursts.
Yeah, some hitbursts are really annoying when playing taiko.

Rokodo wrote:

Custom Sounds

Don't use them in taiko specific maps. Keep volume at 100% on Normal setting.
If 'forcing taiko skin' option is turned on, custom hitsound don't work, though it seems other custom sound effects work.
I tend to use relatively loud hitsound, but it can be varied if the volume of the song is too low.

Maybe we need to discuss about the guidelines, and make it more 'solid'? As more and more taiko specific maps are made, we need some kind of standard.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
Only gonna right on the ones I have a discussion about.

Rokodo wrote:

Slider Velocity

1.4 is the standard slider velocity that is recommended to be used in taiko specific maps. 1.6 is becoming increasingly popular, however.
The slider velocity figure affects the spacing of all the notes in taiko mode.
This is one of the strongest things that needs to be enforced into making a tako map. Even if the song has a slow BPM I find it annoying that people but Slider Velocity up past 1.40.

Rokodo wrote:

Finish Notes

These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour. To be safe, leave at least a 1/2 beat between a finish note and any other note or object in the map.

Below - 1/2 beat spacing between a normal circle and a finish circle in a taiko specific map (1.4 slider velocity):
This is the biggest thing that needs to be in play.
Although I don't see much of it when I go and Mod maps.

Rokodo wrote:

Note Combo

Keep the circle count of taiko specific maps at 999 or below. (In accordance with Taiko no Tatsujin rules.)
This is somthing I wanna argue about. I don't really think it's a "RULE" but more of another one of those weird things Namco does. But this should only be depending on the time of the song.

Lepidopodus wrote:

Maybe we need to discuss about the guidelines, and make it more 'solid'? As more and more taiko specific maps are made, we need some kind of standard.
A nice "solid" mapping criteria would be nice, but I wouldn't want to take it so far that the mapper's creativity gets taken away just because it's not "Authentic"
Last edited by MMzz , edited 1 time in total.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Maybe we should make and distinguish some rules and recommendations...

EDIT: And I think we should mention about measures and barlines.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

lepidopodus wrote:

Maybe we should make and distinguish some rules and recommendations...

EDIT: And I think we should mention about measures and barlines.
And the proper use and placement of 1/3 - 1/6 - 1/8.
crystalsuicune
6,436 posts
Joined May 2008
crystalsuicune
About the whole "no combos over 999" thing..it's actually because the current
system for AC!Taiko cannot support over 999 notes.I bet that 765 will go over 1000
notes if they can get around this technical limitation.

So I suppose this shouldn't be an actual rule,
especially when songs used in osu! can be pretty long.

2xBPM for the whole song..?*stares at Ryougen*Only the beginning's on its original BPM..
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Actually I think that 999 combo rule is some kind of tradition.
arien666
6,290 posts
Joined May 2009
arien666

lepidopodus wrote:

Actually I think that 999 combo rule is some kind of tradition.
^



Also, Is that rule effective for TaikOsu???
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

lepidopodus wrote:

Actually I think that 999 combo rule is some kind of tradition.

MittenMasterzz wrote:

I don't really think it's a "RULE" but more of another one of those weird things Namco does.
Like I said.
But I can see the point where Crystal-Don is comming from.
Roga-don
339 posts
Joined September 2009
Roga-don

arken1015 wrote:

Also, Is that rule effective for TaikOsu???
I think no.
As I remember, Peppy already said that it was NOT a taiko no tatsujin simulator, even the score rules are different :?
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
for TaikOsu? Well you should consider them, but TaikOsu is basically Standard map so I think it's not manditory.
And Oviously Osu Taiko mode is somewhat different from TnT simulator. Well actually some of mechanisms is somewhat different.
But we can implement some aspects from TnT though.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

lepidopodus wrote:

for TaikOsu? Well you should consider them, but TaikOsu is basically Standard map so I think it's not manditory.
And Oviously Osu Taiko mode is somewhat different from TnT simulator. Well actually some of mechanisms is somewhat different.
But we can implement some aspects from TnT though.
Yes, like the fact TnT's accuracy is 10x Stricter.
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
2xBPM for the whole song..?*stares at Ryougen*Only the beginning's on its original BPM..
Family Dondon actually runs on 244 BPM with HS0.5, while the lower difficulties run on 122 BPM, as can be noted by the speed of the characters; this may prove that the Taiko no Tatsujin engine couldn't support 1/8 or something

Also, I don't think the 999 thingy is a rule. As crystal said, the only thing that's preventing 765 from going over 999 is more of technical than a tradition actually: I'm pretty sure 765 wanted to keep ddddkdddddddkdddddddkdddddddkdddkkkkddddkkkkddddkkddkkddkkddkkddd in Bachio-sensei Ura, but couldn't
arien666
6,290 posts
Joined May 2009
arien666

Zekira wrote:

Family Dondon actually runs on 244 BPM with HS0.5, while the lower difficulties run on 122 BPM, as can be noted by the speed of the characters; this may prove that the Taiko no Tatsujin engine couldn't support 1/8 or something
Also, Hataraku :3
Umm???

Then, does TnT support 1/6 notes??? [Tenjiku is not HS2]
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus

arken1015 wrote:

Then, does TnT support 1/6 notes??? [Tenjiku is not HS2]
TnT Supports 1/6 notes.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Maybe we should debate about this one again but kinda hard to gather those 'minorities lurking in somewhere between majorities'.
(Or making new topic or something like that.)

Wake up guys... *sigh*

EDIT: And I really think we should mention here about measures and barlines.

EDIT 2:
Well we should do something with these issues.

Countdown: Permit or not
Slider Velocity: Force/recommend some value or leave it to mappers to set freely
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: Allow it or not
Kiai Time: Should use/leave it to mappers & Set some restrictions/leave it to mappers
Note Combo: Limited to 999/no restrictions
Drum rolls: Not to use short drum rolls/spam drum rolls etc.
Spinners: Restrict them by some way or not
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: same as above.
Break Sections: Allow it or not
Custom Hitbursts: No way to fix this currently
Measures and Barlines etc...
1/8 notes
Sudden change of Scroll speed

Feel free to add issues. I know it's knida useless effort but well, I just wanted to try. Just don't laugh at me.
Last edited by lepidopodus , edited 1 time in total.
Rokodo
1,104 posts
Joined August 2008
Topic Starter
Rokodo

lepidopodus wrote:

Maybe we should debate about this one again but kinda hard to gather those 'minorities lurking in somewhere between majorities'.
(Or making new topic or something like that.)

Wake up guys... *sigh*

EDIT: And I really think we should mention here about measures and barlines.

EDIT 2:
Well we should do something with these issues.

Countdown: Permit or not
Slider Velocity: Force/recommend some value or leave it to mappers to set freely
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: Allow it or not
Kiai Time: Should use/leave it to mappers & Set some restrictions/leave it to mappers
Note Combo: Limited to 999/no restrictions
Drum rolls: Not to use short drum rolls/spam drum rolls etc.
Spinners: Restrict them by some way or not
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: same as above.
Break Sections: Allow it or not
Custom Hitbursts: No way to fix this currently
Measures and Barlines etc...

Feel free to add issues. I know it's knida useless effort but well, I just wanted to try. Just don't laugh at me.
My personal thoughts on this:

Countdowns in taiko specific maps should not be permitted. Period.

There should be a warning for changing slider velocity like some sort of hint popup stating that 1.4 is the visual optimum based on authentic Taiko no Tatsujin games, and that this should generally be used as a default or base (i.e. not kiai time) velocity for maps. I also think some people might be confused by 1/3 + 1/6 or 'odd beat' timed maps (e.g. Metal Hawk) from TnT as they appear to use a different slider velocity if you do not recognize that the beats are not even such as is the case in 1/2 or 1/4 streams.

Note combo... I still prefer to map to 999 or under but we cannot stop people from mapping over this 'limit'.
We used to say no 1/8 in taiko maps, then Namco ruined that anyway. So I won't tell people what to do here anymore. It's really personal preference.

Finish notes should rarely be used in 1/4 timing let alone streams. There are a couple of exceptions, i.e. using a faster custom slider velocity and adding a few finishes such as D KD KD. As long as the notes aren't visually overlapping cases like this are acceptable for short periods of a map:


1/4 finish notes on 1.75x velocity.

Overlapping notes on BPM changes can be avoided if the mapper knows what s/he is doing, just make sure that the notes between different BPM sections are at least 1 beat apart and it should be readable. Sometimes slowdown just cannot be helped, even in my maps:


As long as the BPM is not going from insanely fast to insanely slow I think this is ok. It is subject to opinion.

Spinners cannot really be regulated but they shouldn't be used one after the other or for long periods, say for more than 4 beats.

Again, kiai time is hard to regulate in terms of how many times people use it. However, there should be a warning dialog as I would like to see when changing slider velocity for taiko specific maps that states it should be used for consistent periods during a) the chorus of the song or b) the ending section of the song if there is no notable chorus. I'm personally sick of seeing these kiai 'flashes' in taiko specific map attempts.

Break sections should not be permitted where possible, and forced ones can be deleted with minimal knowledge after the completion of a beatmap using Notepad if required. The only trouble is if the taiko difficulty is the only map in the set then you cannot export an osz as going back into the taiko difficulty will result in a break section being automatically added again. orz

Drum rolls are really determined by osu! and so the number of beats on them cannot be controlled as such. Repetitive drum rolls i.e. more than 2 in a row on taiko specific difficulties should really be avoided.

As for measures and barlines, I usually leave tick rate (which should control the amount of barlines as is my understanding) at 1 or set to 0.5. It doesn't seem to matter what you set it to in osu! below 1 at the moment.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
I mostly agreed with Rokodo.

Rokodo wrote:

We used to say no 1/8 in taiko maps, then Namco ruined that anyway. So I won't tell people what to do here anymore. It's really personal preference.
I think we should avoid to use 1/8, cause it usually too overlapped(and this means hard to read them properly), and hard to hit(as player should tap keys twice faster than 1/4). Most of case 1/8 does not match the song a lot. But we can't prohibit to use 1/8s, as Rokodo said.

Rokodo wrote:

Finish notes should rarely be used in 1/4 timing let alone streams. There are a couple of exceptions, i.e. using a faster custom slider velocity and adding a few finishes such as D KD KD. As long as the notes aren't visually overlapping cases like this are acceptable for short periods of a map:
So we need exact standard of that... I should think about that.

Rokodo wrote:

Spinners cannot really be regulated but they shouldn't be used one after the other or for long periods, say for more than 4 beats.
I think it shouldn't too close to next notes, as it can interupt hitting it. Of course, spamming spinners should be avoided.

Rokodo wrote:

Break sections should not be permitted where possible, and forced ones can be deleted with minimal knowledge after the completion of a beatmap using Notepad if required. The only trouble is if the taiko difficulty is the only map in the set then you cannot export an osz as going back into the taiko difficulty will result in a break section being automatically added again. orz
We don't need Break section in short maps but in the case that the map is long or osu automatically add those, it can be permitted.

Rokodo wrote:

As for measures and barlines, I usually leave tick rate (which should control the amount of barlines as is my understanding) at 1 or set to 0.5. It doesn't seem to matter what you set it to in osu! below 1 at the moment.
Uh... tick rate aren't affect barlines that way as I know. I mean, lots of mappers in osu ignore barlines, but in Taiko barlines are actually appeared when you play the game so I think we should check that barlines are placed properly.

EDIT:
Countdown: X
Slider Velocity: 1.4 recommend?
1/8 notes: Avoid
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: X (need standard)
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Avoid use this over two in a row.
Spinners: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 away from the next note.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Need warning
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Avoid
Break Sections: allow with certain circumtances
Measures and Barlines: Should be checked

uh.... something like this?
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
Countdown: DISABLE.
Slider Velocity: 1.4 unless special cases occur.
1/8 notes: 1/8 isn't usually practical on any rhythm game, not just Taiko.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: NO, unless you're going for something special.
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Only use when called for.
Spinners: No restrictions, just no overlapping.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Avoid using anything higher than 3x and lower than 0.33x.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO.
Break Sections: try right-clicking to eliminate.
Measures and Barlines: Definitely. If it is necessary to keep adding red lines, do it.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus

Zekira wrote:

Countdown: DISABLE.
Slider Velocity: 1.4 unless special cases occur.
1/8 notes: 1/8 isn't usually practical on any rhythm game, not just Taiko.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: NO, unless you're going for something special.
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Only use when called for.
Spinners: No restrictions, just no overlapping.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Avoid using anything higher than 3x and lower than 0.33x.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO.
Break Sections: try right-clicking to eliminate.
Measures and Barlines: Definitely. If it is necessary to keep adding red lines, do it.
Slighty different with mine, hmm....

For slider velosity we may recommend to use it but cannot force it, as it can be one feature of osu Taiko. Actually I experienced some mappers who even avoid using 1.4 cause they think it's too slow.

For spinners, yeah it shouldn't be overlapped, but if BPM is quite high, is it possible to interfere next note 'technically', not by visually or something like that?

For scroll change, yeah, we should avoid using too hight, and I think we restrict the lowest limit cause if it's too slow it's almost impossible to hit them. (It's slighty different with high speeds, as putting high speed mapper force the players to memorize some part (possilbe, but shouldn't be used too much) but if it's too low... You know, we really need great accuracy to hit the notes, as the notes are way tooo slow.) I think the lowest limit should be x0.5. Anyway, should we force putting warning if there's sudden, and big SV change?

What do you think about limits to use finish note, Zekira? How long should the distance between the big notes and other notes be?
Numbers 596108
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2011
773 posts
Joined November 2009
Numbers 596108
ah...BPM...i think...Need change to...no limit...
like this music...it be about 0.5~6.0 BPM in there
Last edited by Numbers 596108 , edited 1 time in total.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Uh... Shin garyou tensei has actual BPM drop so it would be Ok... I was talking about SV change (no actual BPM change but change in the speed of the notes)

Anyway 0989596108, you oppose to set a limit to the note speed, right?
Numbers 596108
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2011
773 posts
Joined November 2009
Numbers 596108
yes...but I will do everything to fight this restriction
this has been a bit unfair...
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Well then, feel free to post your opinion here. You suggested x8 or.... x4? anyway you want higher limit, right? Well my case I don't want to set highest limit but too high speed should be avoidable, as player should memorize whole thing...
Numbers 596108
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2011
773 posts
Joined November 2009
Numbers 596108

lepidopodus wrote:

Well then, feel free to post your opinion here. You suggested x8 or.... x4? anyway you want higher limit, right? Well my case I don't want to set highest limit but too high speed should be avoidable, as player should memorize whole thing...
lol...8x is too fast...about 4x ...i agree it can add...
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Uh... then how about this one? "Avoid to use over x4"? Not a restriction so over x4 can be used if the mapper reeeeeeeeeally wants to use but maximum should be x4 in most case, What do you think? Though there should be discussion before we set an exact limit... Well, I support x4 if it does not restrict 'all' maps over x4.
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
What do you think about limits to use finish note, Zekira? How long should the distance between the big notes and other notes be?
For normal cases, 1/3 and 1/2 should be the farthest it can get.

For songs with less than 85BPM though, 1/4 is allowed.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus

Zekira wrote:

For normal cases, 1/3 and 1/2 should be the farthest it can get.

For songs with less than 85BPM though, 1/4 is allowed.
I think 1/4 streams in Big note should be prohibited even low BPM, as it drops readability.

Anyway for big notes, can 1/3 with SV=1.4 be limit? That means if we use SV = 1.9 we can use 1/4 with Big notes?

EDIT :
Countdown: X
Slider Velocity: 1.4 recommend?
1/8 notes: Avoid
Finish Notes in streams: Big note shouldn't closer than 1/3 in SV=1/3 (Other words, If you set higher than 1.87 you can use Big notes with 1/4 streams)
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Avoid use this over two in a row.
Spinners: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 away from the next note.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Need warning? Avoid using over x4, don't use under x0.5
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Avoid
Break Sections: allow with certain circumtances
Measures and Barlines: Need to add uninherited section if it's needed

Just my thoughts so we need more discussing & mapper's opninions.

EDIT 2:
Re-mentioning Zekira's

Countdown: DISABLE.
Slider Velocity: 1.4 unless special cases occur.
1/8 notes: 1/8 isn't usually practical on any rhythm game, not just Taiko.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: 1/4 with SV=1.4 --> NO, unless you're going for something special. + For songs with less than 85BPM though, 1/4 is allowed.
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Only use when called for.
Spinners: No restrictions, just no overlapping.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Avoid using anything higher than 3x and lower than 0.33x.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO.
Break Sections: try right-clicking to eliminate.
Measures and Barlines: Definitely. If it is necessary to keep adding red lines, do it.

There's some slight difference...
aabc271
osu! Alumni
1,315 posts
Joined August 2009
aabc271
Well, as lepidon's request, i will add some of my opinions here~

Countdown: Permit when it is better to turn it on
Slider Velocity: I recommend 1.4, but i think 1.6 is OK. Not recommended to use other SV unless in special circumstances
1/8 notes: Should be avoided unless in very slow songs ( BPM <80, but only use them at most a few in a song, never spam 1/8 notes )
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: No. Finishes should be also avoided in 1/6 and 1/8. I think using finishes at 1/3 is the limit
Kiai Time: No restrictions, but do not use too much in a song
Note Combo: No restrictions
Drum rolls: Not recommended to use drum rolls that are shorter than a 1/1.
Spinners: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 ( 1/1 is recommended ) away from the next note
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Avoid using anything higher than 2.5x and lower than 0.33x
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Should be avoided if possible
Break Sections: No restrictions, but do not use breaks which are too long ( >20s )
Measures and Barlines: Should be checked if the barlines are placed correctly. Add red lines only when needed
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Seems there's some consensus about these issues:

Slider Velocity: 1.4 Recommend
1/8 notes: Should be avoided
Finish Notes in streams: Not with 1/4, Ok with 1/3. (We exact standard limit though.)
Kiai Time: No restrictions
Note Combo: No restrictions
Drum rolls: Avoid usginf drum rolls shorter than a 1/1, avoid using 2 in a row, etc.
Limitation of Scroll speed: Need to be regulate, but everyone has some different point of view about exact limit.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Avoid
Measures and Barlines: Need to be placed correctly

For countdown, we need to talk as some have differnt view. Also we need to discuss about exact limit of Finish notes and Scroll speed.
Still open for new issues, and need more opinions.
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
I still say no to countdown ._.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Actually I don't like countdown too. Well, if other mapper think so, we can restrict countdown but if not, we can't restrict that.
To decide this, I think we need more opnion.
aquabluu
5,024 posts
Joined February 2008
aquabluu

lepidopodus wrote:

Countdown: No. But I've always been lazy to disable it in my maps, so yeah. I'll work on it.
Slider Velocity: The standard is 1.4. Any higher or lower and the beat spacing will look odd. Minor exceptions, perhaps.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: In small amounts, maybe (see Oodain)
Kiai Time: Unreasonable to make a song unrankable due to >1 minute of Kiai. Loosen the rule for Taiko, especially authentic maps. (see Kimi no Akari, Taiko Ranbu: Honoo no Maki)
Note Combo: IMO, more than 999 is fine, but ONLY if the song is more than 3 1/2 minutes long.
Drum rolls: Fine, as long as there are no more than five short drumrolls in a row (see Numujika ac.10)
Spinners: Not more than three short spinners in a row, otherwise, no restrictions. (see Numujika ac.10, PaPaPa Love)
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: This should be done only for novelty's sake, not for a ranked map.
Break Sections: Breaks are forced no matter which part of osu you're playing, but it really isn't necessary for Taiko

Feel free to add issues. I know it's knida useless effort but well, I just wanted to try. Just don't laugh at me.
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
(see Numujika ac.10)
The worst case for drumroll examples.

Ever.
Lokamp
2,530 posts
Joined January 2009
Lokamp
Hmm, let's see...

Countdown: Anti-estethic to see and to hear in osu. And that means NO countdown!
Slider Velocity: Generally for Tv sized Taiko maps using a x1.30 multiplier is good, but I think it's better to let mappers set them for themselves...
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: uglyuglyuglyUGLY! It doesn't have much sense, perhaps.
Kiai Time: For song choruses is fine, but even for this stands all to mappers's choice. Even because some taiko original songs from Namco games abuse of Kiai time for over half map (Examples: Taiko Go!-Go! Godaime Opening song or Okashi Deka no Uta)
Note Combo: I personally love using particular max combo numbers as a continuation to Namco's, but for the other mappers can be good enough to let them choose how many notes insert (just, don't fill 1-minutes song with an exagerate number of notes... @.o
Drum rolls:Meh, it's good for me, until (as said before from others) don't stack 4-5 sliders on a row, or a serie of sliders which changes continously speed...
Spinners: there isn't a minimum/maximum value for them. Just, don't let players insets TOO MANY on a row, even if some exeption are seen on Taiko games (see Speed King)
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: It's fine; just leave a little zone with no notes between BPM's changes from slower to faster; and vice versa, from faster to slower isn't needed a zone without beats...
Break Sections: If someone wants to map something in Taiko mode, maybe he/she must stay away to use break zones, in my opinion...
Measures and Barlines Maybe for specific maps, skilled guys with a storyboarding experience can set a particular Taiko drum for their songs! I know it's hard, but maybe by encouraging people to try this artistic road, players would enjoy better playing that map...
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

lepidopodus wrote:

Maybe we should debate about this one again but kinda hard to gather those 'minorities lurking in somewhere between majorities'.
(Or making new topic or something like that.)

Wake up guys... *sigh*

EDIT: And I really think we should mention here about measures and barlines.

EDIT 2:
Well we should do something with these issues.

Countdown: Permit or not
Slider Velocity: Force/recommend some value or leave it to mappers to set freely
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: Allow it or not
Kiai Time: Should use/leave it to mappers & Set some restrictions/leave it to mappers
Note Combo: Limited to 999/no restrictions
Drum rolls: Not to use short drum rolls/spam drum rolls etc.
Spinners: Restrict them by some way or not
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: same as above.
Break Sections: Allow it or not
Custom Hitbursts: No way to fix this currently
Measures and Barlines etc...

Feel free to add issues. I know it's knida useless effort but well, I just wanted to try. Just don't laugh at me.
Countdown: What is wrong with a countdown?

Slider Velocity: I believe this should stay at 1.4 for most songs, unless the song has a very slow bpm ( Like under 100 )

Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: No.

Kiai Time: I think kiai should be regulated to some point, because not every part needs kiai. Maybe once or twice a song is fine, depending on length of song and how many times it play a chorus.

Note Combo: I think mappers should be able to have a combo as big as they like, I know its in namco tradition or something to do this, but I guess it could fall into terms for the length of the map. (Like a 2 minute song shouldn't have 100000000 combo. lol)

Drumrolls: Ends and starts should be at least a half a measure apart.

Spinners: Spinners are fine in a good moderation like kiai and sliders.

Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Someone fill me in on what this means >_>

Break Sections: I wouldn't see a problem in this as long as there not very long breaks, or again, depending on the length of the song. If a map is 2 minutes you should map the whole thing, but if its, lets say 4 minutes, mapping can get a bit repetitive.

I didn't read everyone else's post because i'm in a bit of a hurry, but I will keep an eye on this.
Mara
4,906 posts
Joined November 2009
Mara
What about custom skins in taiko diffs? Is it allowed or disallowed?
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

LunaticMara wrote:

What about custom skins in taiko diffs? Is it allowed or disallowed?
Depends on how annoying the hitburst is, we should try and keep it to the normal taiko skin though.
crystalsuicune
6,436 posts
Joined May 2008
crystalsuicune
OK,so here's my two cents....

Countdown: Eh it doesn't affect gameplay,so I don't mind having them.(heck,my taikomaps have them too)
But a big no-no for authentic maps.

Slider Velocity: Keep it at 1.4,unless it's absolutely necessary to use another value.

Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: IDK,it depends on the song itself.(sometimes it sounds better that way)
But keep it at a minimum.

Kiai Time: Depends on the length of the song...but for regular length songs,perhaps one or two is enough.

Note Combo: Once again,depends on song length.For regular length it's better to keep it under 999.

Drum rolls: Unless it's authentic or on Kantan/Futsuu,no drumroll spamming.

Spinners: Not too much,and no having notes immediately after spinners.After all,spinners cover the whole screen.

Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO.Overlapped notes are impossible to hit.

Break Sections: Since breaks or the lack of it won't affect taiko gameplay...I don't mind having them.

Custom Hitbursts: I'd rather not have them.

Measures and Barlines etc... IDK about this...
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Countdown: Seems quite lot's of mappers don't mind whether it's turn on or off... Should we say 'avoid countdown', or just set no restriction about this?
Slider Velocity: Lots of mapper think 1.4 is fair, but we don't need to force it. Let just say 'recommend' it.
1/8 notes: lol seems everyone missed this one. Anyway it needs to be avoided.
Finish Notes in streams: Seems most mappers don't like this. Anyway we need to set exact limitation, as mappers sometimes set SV other than 1.4.
Kiai Time: Some said about some criteria. See above.
Note Combo: Seems some mappers like certain number, but basically we don't need to regulate this, right?
Drum rolls: Of course everone don't like spamming...
Spinners: ^
Sudden change of Scroll speed: We need some exact limitation of this. We got some opnions already...
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: We don't like this.
Break Sections: Seems it's not that necessary in Taiko, let's say... avoid this unless the song is long?
Measures and Barlines: Need to add uninherited section if it's needed

Hmm... any suggestion?

EDIT: subject changed.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

lepidopodus wrote:

Countdown: Seems quite lot's of mappers don't mind whether it's turn on or off... Should we say 'avoid countdown', or just set no restriction about this?
Slider Velocity: Lots of mapper think 1.4 is fair, but we don't need to force it. Let just say 'recommend' it.
1/8 notes: lol seems everyone missed this one. Anyway it needs to be avoided.
Finish Notes in streams: Seems most mappers don't like this. Anyway we need to set exact limitation, as mappers sometimes set SV other than 1.4.
Kiai Time: Some said about some criteria. See above.
Note Combo: Seems some mappers like certain number, but basically we don't need to regulate this, right?
Drum rolls: Of course everone don't like spamming...
Spinners: ^
Sudden change of Scroll speed: We need some exact limitation of this. We got some opnions already...
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: We don't like this.
Break Sections: Seems it's not that necessary in Taiko, let's say... avoid this unless the song is long?
Measures and Barlines: Need to add uninherited section if it's needed

Hmm... any suggestion?

EDIT: subject changed.
Looks fair. :3
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Still need more opnion. This post should be more active than now.
*send some invitations to other mappers*
arien666
6,290 posts
Joined May 2009
arien666
Countdown: I prefer not to use this thing orz
Slider Velocity: Unless yours is TaikOsu, 1.4 is the best speed imo ;_;
1/8 notes: Except Hataraku2000 or else crazy songs, It doesn't need to be overused orz
Finish Notes in streams: NEVER except OOdain...
Kiai Time: As 'DON'T CUT', do not cut Kiai Time while that's highlight part ;_;
Note Combo: Maximum 999 is fine on TV-size or the songs which are up to 2min. Else, unlimited orz
Drum rolls: Doesn't need to be overused but... WTF YMCK...[Muzukashii...]
Spinners: ^
Sudden change of Scroll speed: I dunno but if rhythm distance is too short, it should not be used orz
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NEVER.
Break Sections: If TaikOsu, allow :3 If Taiko-only? I dunno ;_;
Measures and Barlines: Depends on song's data orz



:3?
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
Countdown: Depend on songs
Slider Velocity: no restriction imo.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: NO unless obviously slow (e.g. BPM 100
Kiai Time: similar to solo diff, except those created by namco
Note Combo: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Drum rolls: I suggest at least drumroll should at least last 1 beat, also dense rolls should be avoided (I don't know why there's 1/8 drumroll sometimes...)
Spinners: NO restrictions
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Overlapped notes are absolutely unrankable. At least no two notes should be so near, not even due to BPM changes.
Break Sections: No restrictions to break or not, but no need to put break section on breaks, TaikOsu of course allow~
Custom Hitbursts: I closed that function ._.
Measures and Barlines etc... <- same as solo
1/8 notes <- NO way for fast songs, also applied to 1/6
Sudden change of Scroll speed <- Avoid whenever possible.




More about SV: 1.4 would not be a good choice for every song, while we should never try to force taiko map in osu to become another namco demonstration, and I used to start with 1.6 or 1.8...

Authentic is shouldn't be our standard, show our creativity under a reasonable way will be fine enough :D
aquabluu
5,024 posts
Joined February 2008
aquabluu
1/8 notes should be restricted to songs with BPM of <170, and never used on anything but the top-level difficulty.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
In fact 1/8 patterns rarely appear in a song, and they should be restricted unless it's obvious to be 1/8... and the 1/8 shouldn't be long too. (5 maybe)
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Authentics are not determined by SV=1.4....

It seems mappers participated in here usually prefer 1.4 but lots of them think it can't be forced, so basically there won't be some kind of restriction, though we may be able to recommend or advice to use 1.4. (Maybe mappers who supports 1.4 want some consistency with patterns so it can be easily read)

Anyway we need more opnions...
Mic
66 posts
Joined March 2009
Mic
1.Countdown: Depending on the beginning of the song
2.Slider Velocity:126↓BPM=2.6-2.8,126↑BPM=1.4-1.6(1.4 is better)
3.Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: It will affect map artistic,so it doesn't permit
4.Kiai Time: Decides according to the song
5.Note Combo: (4)
6.Drum rolls: Namco also in using
7.Spinners: Restrict them by some way(4)
8.Overlapped notes by BPM Changes:(4)
9.Break Sections: not
10.1/8 notes:(4)
11.Sudden change of Scroll speed:(4)
---
i can only reply these :oops:
"don't forget that your map does for who"
ShanaTan
184 posts
Joined August 2009
ShanaTan
Well imo almost everything is optional considering that this is taiko osu! afterall. Although I do feel that some things need to be considered when specifically mapping a taiko map.

For example. . .

Countdown: Really, this should be up to the mapper, although I prefer maps that doesn't use a countdown.
Slider Velocity: Again I think this should be up to the mapper, although keeping it within a certain limit would be nice, like not using a too high SV when the bpm is high etc.
1/8 notes: This is definately a pain too see, especially if the number of notes in a 1/8 stream exceeds by 5.
Finish Notes in streams: Ugh this is one of the things that is a pain aswell unless the bpm is really low >.<
Kiai Time: Nothing special here, just don't overuse it.
Note Combo: Up to the mapper.
Drum rolls: Up to the mapper although seeing alot of high bpm drumrolls in a row is very tiring.
Spinners: Well same thing as ^ basically.
Break Sections: Up to the mapper.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: I guess this is one of the things I don't want too see.

Well that's my opinion =P
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Ok let's arrange these opnions...

Countdown: At first lots of mapper said there should be no countdown in Taiko map, but as discussion progressing, there are many opnions that we don't need to regulate that. So just saying 'We recommend not to use countdown, but if you think it's better, feel free to use it.'. Is it sounds fair?

Slider Velocity: Still lots of mapper favors 1.4, but can't force it to every map, so let's say 'recommend 1.4 but feel free to use other value, unless it's too high or too low.' Is it sounds fair?

1/8 notes: 'Avoid using 1/8 notes, and 1/8 stream over 5 notes is considered as annoying.' Is it sounds fair?
Some more opinions:
  • aabc271: Should be avoided unless in very slow songs like BPM <80
    arien666: Avoid unless it's a crazy map.
    aquabluu: Should be restricted to songs with BPM of <170
Big Notes in 1/4 streams: Seems most mappers don't like this so let's just say 'don't use Big Notes in 1/4 streams in SV=1.4.' Anyway we need to set exact limitation, as mappers sometimes set SV other than 1.4.
Opinions for Exact limitation:
  • lepidopodus: Over SV=1.8, Big notes in 1/4 stream is allowed.
    Zekira: Allow if the BPM is lower than 85.
    aabc271: Restrict less than 1/4. Over 1/3 is ok.
    wmfchris: Allow if the BPM is really low like BPM 100.
Kiai Time: 'Do not overuse.', and maybe we can add 'putting it in chorus parts is recommended'... and maybe some more.

Note Combo: Seems there's no need to regulate this. Just say 'Do not overmap too much.'

Drum rolls: 'Do not spam.'
Some more opnions:
  • Rokodo: Avoid 2 in a row.
    aabc271: Avoid shorter than 1/1.
    aquabluu: No more than 5 in a row.
    Lokamp: Don't stack 4-5 sliders on a row, avoid series of sliders which changes speed continously.
    MMzz: Ends and starts should be at least a half a measure apart.
    wmfchris: Drumroll should at least last 1 beat, dense rolls should be avoided.
Spinners: 'Do not spam.'
Some more opnions:
  • lepidopodus: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 away from the next note.
    Zekira: No overlapping.
    aabc271: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 ( 1/1 is recommended ) away from the next note.
    Lokamp: Don't insert too many on a row.
    crystalsuicune: Avoid notes immediately after spinners.
    Natsumerin: Make it as closer to the next note as possible.
Limitations for note speed change (SV change): We got some suggestions. 'You can use SV changes over this limit, only when you have good reasons for it.' <--- How is it?
Opinion for Exact limitation:
  • lepidopodus: x0.5~x4.0 (Technically it will be doubled BPM with x2.0.)
    Zekira: x0.33~x3.0
    0989596108: ~4.0
    aabc271: x0.33~x2.5
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO

Break Sections: 'We recommend not to use it, unless the song is long.', looks fair?

Measures and Barlines: Need to add uninherited section if it's needed. Pulse needs to be corrected.

Some opinions may omitted by mistakes orz
Still this is opening for other opinions.
And I think we can add some advice to mappers, like samiljul said, 'It's not good to put sudden, very long streams of 1/4 notes in the map filled with 1/2 streams.'...?
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