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Poll 6: Sponsored Feature Requests

posted
Total Posts
59

Do you agree with the feature sponsoring system?

I think it's a great idea and will definitely sponsor some features.
25
26.88%
I like the idea but will only use my osu! supporter credits to sponsor features.
27
29.03%
I like the idea but am not an osu! supporter/won't sponsor features.
31
33.33%
I disagree with this system and think it is unfair/a bad idea (explain please).
10
10.75%
Total votes: 93
Polling ended
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
I have been debating with myself whether this would be a good idea or not, but since I can't really decide it's time to ask your opinion. First, the problem: I have limited time, and also my own agenda for the future of osu! (which mostly involves under-the-hood improvements to keep things running smoothly, or personal projects which could result in awesome new features). There are new feature requests daily that are only growing in number, which I used to be able to keep up with but now it is a very challenging task to even read through them all.

So I propose a new system: People can put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. This would mean donating money to "sponsor" a feature. Sponsored features would get priority in the feature request forum similar to the star priority system in beatmap forums. osu! supporters would get x credits to sponsor features (a small number) and further could be posted to a specific feature requests through subsequent donations.

I would of course still require some input to sponsored features. Those which I highly disagree with or aren't technically feasible would be denied and credits would be refunded to the sponsors.

This system would give osu! supporters one more small perk (every existing supporter would get a number of credits) as well as give those willing to invest in a particular feature a chance to do so. It would mean the most frustrating missing features could get more attention, and supporters would have a greater say on how the future of osu! will play out.

That said, what is your opinion? If you don't agree with this, please explain yourself by replying to this thread!

Thanks as always.
NaomiMinette
osu! Alumni
3,916 posts
Joined June 2009
NaomiMinette
I like the idea, but some people don't even have the money to sponsor even if they'd want to (me being one of them).
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
I would totally chip in a few bucks for variable (non .5x / 2x) slider speeds ;D
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
I have been thinking about donating a little bit more outside-of-subscription once the semester is out and my finances are sorted...

This would be a great way for supporters to see where their money is going more visibly. :)
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
I would totally put $25 on slider speeds and $10 on combo colour reordering.

If we can sponsor bugs, I'd sink $10 into i46. :D

Donating code is also something I'd be interested in.

Edit: It also occurred to me that you should be offered a refund (or credits) if a feature you invest in truly dies. As in, no one else supports it and it's forgotten.
yeahyeahyeahhh
osu! Alumni
2,850 posts
Joined December 2008
yeahyeahyeahhh
I'd pay 100 to reorder Kiai timing parts!

But yeah, I would support this.
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy

MetalMario201 wrote:

Edit: It also occurred to me that you should be offered a refund (or credits) if a feature you invest in truly dies. As in, no one else supports it and it's forgotten.
Yep, although the way I see it is that as soon as a feature gets sponsored I would consider it and kill or praise it on the spot. There could be an auto-refund after 4 weeks system, though.

I see that one person has already voted against this without any explanation. Please avoid doing this if possible.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
There's still going to be that middle class of requests that aren't outright infeasible, so don't get denied, but also see little attention.

We'd have to see if the priority boost from one supporter is enough to give the feature attention from others.
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
Well there shouldn't be a huge list of sponsored features if this works how I see it working.

As an alternative, I did consider swapping to a getsatisfaction account for feature requests but feel that I don't want to rely on an external entity for this, and also give supporters a bit of an extra advantage in the process.
K2J
872 posts
Here since the beginning
K2J
I support this if it's called Kudo$u.
[Sean]
149 posts
Joined November 2009
[Sean]
This idea is a great idea. There are some great feature suggestions on the forums, and some, if not most of them usually never see the light of day.

With this, I would be glad to chuck a few $$ towards a great idea.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
i guess this sounds fair for the people who has money to spend, and unfair for the people who don't.

don't have much to say, this sounds like a good idea
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
Hm, guess I'll spend some for custom-slider speeds and customizable LayeredHitSounds value per Timing Section...~

Though I do hope the costs of these donations aren't too large?
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
It will be relative to how much you pledge, ie. $1 = 2 credits. Subscription gives you x months worth of credits. Just an example and may be tweaked.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
No no no no no.

I disagree with money.

I would much prefer a StackOverflow approach. (If you haven't used it as a programmer, I highly suggest you try it out for a week.)

That is, everyone who contributes well enough gets "credits" (reputation points). Users can freely up-vote or down-vote questions (in our case, they'd be feature requests and bug reports).

Still allow normal users to comment (and be given reputation for their comments by rep-givers).
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
But I'm trying to make a model here where I can actually spend more time working on said features. Removing money from the equation would make this relatively worthless in my eyes (I'd rather just work on the features I want to as a priority).
Pasonia
osu! Alumni
1,199 posts
Joined October 2008
Pasonia
Forgive me for not reading the front part of the thread if this has been said.

I checked option 2, but will check option 1 had it been something like "Each user can only sponsor a limit of x dollars per idea and cannot spend more until the idea has been checked through."

Without going into details, I don't want some of us to lose control over their finances (some people love games so much they'll spend money to just get a TINY advantage - see MapleStory) or cry foul over "certain" individuals being able to get their idea higher up the queue because they have the moolar to do it. It'll be bad if a mundane idea is pushed so high up the queue through sponsorship and which swamps over excellent ideas, although I accept that usually that isn't the case.
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
Setting some upper limits may not be a bad idea, but that said; I don't think it would need to be implemented until actually required. No point in adding unnecessary restrictions before observing a problem.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Also, I see the wishlist of features being fairly consistent across the community; maybe with different priorities based on hiw you use the game.

I doubt the poor folk would often disagree with sponsorship of a feature.
Remco32
1,755 posts
Joined May 2008
Remco32
What will happen to the ideas that are good, but without any money involved?
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy

Remco32 wrote:

What will happen to the ideas that are good, but without any money involved?
The obvious - they won't get a priority boost, unless others decide it is a good idea and sponsor it. Remember that a "good idea" is usually "good" in the eyes of the person who thought of it. People will support good ideas should they be truly impressive. (Of course I still have the final say in what gets implemented ;)).
Remco32
1,755 posts
Joined May 2008
Remco32
Still, if this gets used a lot, then a person with a great feature request will get flooded with payed one, and might have to wait a real long time to get his feature implemented . And I think there won't be many people willing to pay for some else his feature request.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Remco32 wrote:

And I think there won't be many people willing to pay for some else his feature request.
This is where you're wrong. Many of the most significant features are agreed upon by large segments of the community.

And if they like it, they'll support it.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
I like the sound of this idea~

Remco32 wrote:

Still, if this gets used a lot, then a person with a great feature request will get flooded with payed one, and might have to wait a real long time to get his feature implemented . And I think there won't be many people willing to pay for some else his feature request.
That's like saying that nobody should star anyone else's maps because it gives their map more competition. Getting your feature request added first isn't some kind of competition, lol.
Remco32
1,755 posts
Joined May 2008
Remco32
Stars don't cost money.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
"Great" ideas are usually agreed upon by peppy and given higher priority anyway, so this system would be mainly useful for the dozens of other features that keep popping up. :S
Yingwu
194 posts
Joined September 2008
Yingwu
I like the idea and will definitely 'donate' money if i can miss it to improve osu! in any way possible. money. time. effort. no matter what.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
If we're going the money route, be sure when I make a donation to give someone else a supporter tag that strager gets the kudo$u. =]
al2e10
1,101 posts
Joined August 2008
al2e10
If someone on the future request post a success request, the Credits can give some to poster ??
Because when someone thing that post is a good post, that will use a lot of money for support.
And I think if the succesed post can Gave Back some Credits to the one WHO is support that idea that will be like to auction and get a great motion to be a supporter.

That is my idea.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
oh fuck

next paycheck going into SB masks D=
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
To be honest, I'm somewhat against this. Supporting something with money doesn't necessarily make it a good feature, and if this system was implemented the features at the forefront wouldn't necessarily be the best features. Additionally, some people don't want to spend their money on supporting features, and this system would be biased in favor of those features where the supporters are willing and able to do so.

I think it could be accomplished better by using a star priority system similar to the one used for beatmaps, but then you'd get the problem of one person calling a bunch of his friends over to star a feature. That won't be as much of a problem, though, because once the feature is reviewed it might not be implemented anyway, and the people within the community supporting the feature request would likely outweigh the one person's friends supporting it.

In other words, yes, it would definitely help, but I think there might be a better way to do it. It's probably just me though. :o
Repflez
Global Moderator
367 posts
Joined November 2009
Repflez
I have a question about the "credits"... Is it possible that everyone can get credits without having to subscribe? I mean, paying for them, but with the subscription aside.
deepsea
osu! Alumni
855 posts
Joined April 2008
deepsea
Besides getting credits through money, how about awarding people a small number of credits when they have contribution in osu? Like map ranked?
Pasonia
osu! Alumni
1,199 posts
Joined October 2008
Pasonia
Thus far the feedback from the Chinese side (the initial ones that I know of anyway) seems to be that this leans slightly on the side of commercialism. "Money makes the world go round" was one of the comments, so yea >.>;;;

There was a suggestion pushed to me though.

"What if the users can obtain credits besides just money? For example, every ranked map gives them y credits (definitely lesser than from directly supporting)?"

My initial thought was "doesn't that already destroy the concept of 'sponsorship'?" but I thought it'll be good if someone can build on the idea. I feel it's going in the right way but it just needs some kind of polishing somewhere...
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy

Pasonia wrote:

Thus far the feedback from the Chinese side (the initial ones that I know of anyway) seems to be that this leans slightly on the side of commercialism. "Money makes the world go round" was one of the comments, so yea >.>;;;
For those saying this is "commercialism", just consider the fact that feature requests without this system will not get attention. We are talking about requests in that range of "stuff that might work well but only be used by x users (where x < 100) and therefore peppy will not implement because there are higher priorities". (to be honest i don't expect much from chinese users by way of monetary support, anyway).

Pasonia wrote:

"What if the users can obtain credits besides just money? For example, every ranked map gives them y credits (definitely lesser than from directly supporting)?"
ie. this may be the difference between features getting considered or not. rewarding people for mapped maps would be a different concept - not the one I am discussing here, which is giving those who donate/support osu! more weighting. Anyone can rank maps - they don't help me (they just add to bandwidth costs).

Reperawin wrote:

I have a question about the "credits"... Is it possible that everyone can get credits without having to subscribe? I mean, paying for them, but with the subscription aside.
ignore the word "credits" - that was just an example. anyone can sponsor a feature by clicking a "sponsor this feature" link. osu! supporters will get a small bonus towards sponsoring features as a way of saying "thanks".
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
I think this might turn out to be the kudosu star system. Where people just spam money onto one feature request and leave the rest to rot.

I haven't voted yet but in my mind, it's sounding like this.

Basically, those who have more money will judge how osu! is made better. Please prove me wrong.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
Again, this system would be used for the dozens of smaller, very-low-priority feature requests that peppy would otherwise not waste his time implementing.
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu
i like this idea. it will make osu better and help peppy.
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy

MarioBros777 wrote:

Basically, those who have more money will judge how osu! is made better. Please prove me wrong.
Actually, I'd say this is quite accurate. The people who "have more money" are those out of the "teen" or "child" groupings, which I would definitely trust more in knowing what a good feature was from a bad one.
CheeseWarlock
osu! Alumni
1,185 posts
Joined May 2008
CheeseWarlock
I'm fine with it.

Just don't make them stars.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

CheeseWarlock wrote:

I'm fine with it.

Just don't make them stars.
FurukawaPan
649 posts
Joined August 2008
FurukawaPan
I thought about this for a while and decided I am in favor of the idea.

When folks go on and request features, we're basically asking for new stuff to get coded, and I realized I'm okay with the fact that money is paying for these sponsored requests because one rightly should be financially compensated if it is completed.

If a feature request is denied I would hope my credits could be transferred to a different feature request in the future (but those feature points become "locked in" if the feature is added).
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
I don't understand what all the worry is over. People aren't going to throw money at a feature unless they genuinely think it's quality. This isn't just some selfish, freebie want (such as starring a map). It is literally an investment.

I don't want to look at this from the "boohoo I'm not willing to give back to something I'm taking from and it's unfair to treat those who do with higher regard" perspective, but it's hard not to.
Guy-kun
770 posts
Joined December 2009
Guy-kun
I'm half-hearted about this, I still think that allowing people to sponsor something is commercialising the game and making the players with a great deal of money to spend 'those in control' and the rest of the community will go almost unheard.

The idea with supporters being able to spend credits in my opinion is a rgeat idea, if you support osu, you should be able to have an EQUAL say in where development goes, such as a set amount of credits that can be used to promote something, thus still making osu driven towards the whole community as a whole rather than NEEDING money to be spent on something.
People wouldnt be afraid to use credits to fund something they think would be nice and agree with others, money would only be spent by determined individuals rather than everyone

Probably started repeating myself there, but yeah...
Yingwu
194 posts
Joined September 2008
Yingwu
One thing i want to add tho...

Make sure the site and game and everything won't run on the income of this... I've been on a site that failed now because they were running on donations and such and went way over budget with plans, This is what i never wanna see to happen with osu!

And also

peppy wrote:

Actually, I'd say this is quite accurate. The people who "have more money" are those out of the "teen" or "child" groupings, which I would definitely trust more in knowing what a good feature was from a bad one.
I highly disagree with this because teenagers could prioritize the wrong thing and use all of his/her money on osu! and spam everything.

To blandly say, people with more money are older and better to judge is imo the wrong way to think.
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu
that is what he said lol
Yoshi348
113 posts
Joined June 2009
Yoshi348
I might be overcautious, but this definitely sets off my danger alarms. I don't see this raising the quality of feature requests that much, but at the same time I don't see it lowering it either and I understand that that's only half the point. The main thing is that it really feels like commercialism and while I'm not necessarily seeing a "slippery slope" thing here, at the same time I feel like a lot of other people will (especially new people checking out this osu! thing) and that it will turn them off of osu! I already know a few people who stopped playing osu! over the subscription thing, even though it's really mild and pretty necessary; I have a feeling this will be a lot worse... if they find out about it, that is (they might not if they don't join the community). I also feel it might really have a poisonous effect on the community in the form of envy, but I'm not sure.

I guess what I'm saying is that while I don't have a certain feeling that this is a bad idea, there are too many warning bells going off in my head for me to not say anything, if you understand what I'm trying to say.
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy

Yoshi348 wrote:

...at the same time I feel like a lot of other people will (especially new people checking out this osu! thing) and that it will turn them off of osu!
Most "new people" checking out osu! will not visit the Feature Requests board instantly to post new requests, in my eyes. This would also, like subscription, not be forced nor advertised.

Yoshi348 wrote:

I already know a few people who stopped playing osu! over the subscription thing
Why would you even do this? I don't even see the logic behind it. To be honest, if someone stops playing a free game because they find out... it is actually free because some people choose to help keep it running (?) then I don't actually want them here in the first place due to their brains not seeming to be switched on.

Yoshi348 wrote:

I guess what I'm saying is that while I don't have a certain feeling that this is a bad idea, there are too many warning bells going off in my head for me to not say anything, if you understand what I'm trying to say.
I really don't.

noxie wrote:

Make sure the site and game and everything won't run on the income of this... I've been on a site that failed now because they were running on donations and such and went way over budget with plans, This is what i never wanna see to happen with osu!
Consider that osu! has been up to $3,000 in negative at the worst point in time which comes from my pocket, and I never even mentioned this until right now, I don't think you should have a concern for any kind of financial collapse. Leave the worrying to me unless I start telling you to worry :P.

noxie wrote:

I highly disagree with this because teenagers could prioritize the wrong thing and use all of his/her money on osu! and spam everything.
A pattern like this would be obvious to stop before it got out of hand. That said, kids with access to amounts of money that would cause such a problem should not have access in the first place. ie. their parents should probably be showing more care.

Guy-kun wrote:

I'm half-hearted about this, I still think that allowing people to sponsor something is commercialising the game and making the players with a great deal of money to spend 'those in control' and the rest of the community will go almost unheard.
See this is not the angle I'm coming from. If you missed awp's last post:

awp wrote:

I don't understand what all the worry is over. People aren't going to throw money at a feature unless they genuinely think it's quality. This isn't just some selfish, freebie want (such as starring a map). It is literally an investment.
People will sponsor other people's features. There may even be a condition invoked that limits how much you can sponsor your own features, or something similar.

And remember this: I deny over 50% of features as being useless. If I don't see a feature benefitting the game and the community at a whole, it will not get consideration. This is merely an effort to prioritise the features which WILL be affecting and benefitting everyone that plays osu!.

(No I am not trying to get you guys that are against this to change your mind, just presenting my rationale for putting forward the idea)

---

Also you can say all your want about commercialism, but if osu! is going to go any further than what it is now (which is definitely something I have interest in -- it would be stupid not to with a time investment of approaching 10,000hours on my part) having more funds available is clearly a benefit. Relying on donations is something I would never dream of, but it all helps in the scheme of things.
rust45
1,088 posts
Joined May 2009
rust45
I don't see why this would do any harm at all. If people waste money on crap that doesn't need to be added or should have low priority, then it's their own fault, it won't harm how osu! progresses.

If this does happen I would probably sponsor some requests that I really want, or maybe even need. (If say it's an addition to the editor) And I wouldn't care much the price as I know it won't be wasted, it will be used help keep the game running and free, as it is now.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

peppy wrote:

And remember this: I deny over 50% of features as being useless. If I don't see a feature benefitting the game and the community at a whole, it will not get consideration. This is merely an effort to prioritise the features which WILL be affecting and benefitting everyone that plays osu!.
I see this as an unnecessary extra step which would only serve to introduce bias.

When real money is involved, people will think twice before sponsoring crap. A suspected useless feature might just turn out to be hugely popular, and it deserves the opportunity to be heard.

Of course, denial would be fair if the burden of implementation is too harsh and it only receives little support.
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