When using custom hitsounds, complete set of hitsounds must be provided. For instance, if you use custom hitwhistle, you must include hitnormal and other hitsounds which are actually used in set.

Idea of this is pretty much the same as for custom skinning elemets use. Including your precious custom clap or whistle in map and leaving hitnormal for the sake of my set skin, which may vary from pingpong to heavy bass, sometimes may result in very unfitting and strange shit. And switching from my custom skin to default every time when I want to hear what is actually was planned as custom hitsound set by mapper is tiring.

Sorry for my bad English. Hope this is understandable.

I think it would make more sense to submit a feature request for a setting to easily toggle between using or ignoring skin hit sounds.
Adding a rule like this to the rc would just increase file size, and force mappers to add "custom" hit sounds even if their intention is to use the default osu! hit sounds.

No
Just no
I want to use the soft-whistle from the default skin, but I don't have the default skin (as a folder in my skins)
So I have all elements (hit-normal/clap/whistle/finish) for normal, and all except whistle for soft, because I can't find it anywhere.

Well...if you use only soft-whistle for example why adding something that is not used? Is only space removed for other maps

Actually I agree with this one. It should be the same as it is for other skinnable elements. Not everyone has the same skin hitsounds, so yeah, sometimes the mix can be really awkward or bad, you can ignore the skin's hitsounds, but I think that isn't really the way to bypass this.

If they want to use the default skin hitsounds for the non-custom, they just should add the default skin samples to complete the set, that should be around in Skinning forum.

Edit: silenced sliderslide could be the single exception.

No. Hitsounds are used to achieve a desired sound, it doesn't matter how you go about it. Why would you need to include a full set when samples are mixed and matched randomly? Not to mention the fact that any sample without a custom override uses default anyway.

You should not cater to people who use custom hitsounds, as it is their choice to do so. If they want holes in the hitsounding scheme by using clackity-fucking-clack samples, it's their fault.

CloudSplash16 wrote:

I think it would make more sense to submit a feature request for a setting to easily toggle between using or ignoring skin hit sounds.
Adding a rule like this to the rc would just increase file size, and force mappers to add "custom" hit sounds even if their intention is to use the default osu! hit sounds.

I guess you missed topic point it's not about using or ignoring skin hit sounds.

baraatje123 wrote:

No
Just no
I want to use the soft-whistle from the default skin, but I don't have the default skin (as a folder in my skins)
So I have all elements (hit-normal/clap/whistle/finish) for normal, and all except whistle for soft, because I can't find it anywhere.

Sorry what? You don't have to add any hitsounds if you use only defaults one.

Lach wrote:

No. Hitsounds are used to achieve a desired sound, it doesn't matter how you go about it. Why would you need to include a full set when samples are mixed and matched randomly? Not to mention the fact that any sample without a custom override uses default anyway.

Exactly. It uses default for your current skin set not from osu! default one (what is supposed mostly I guess).

First of all, why you use custom elements in skin or hitsounds? To make things more priti or authentic in general.
e.g You don't just put random score-3.png and left other ones to player skin set because this is nonsense. Why should you do that with hitsounds.

As for mapset size incise. Not every song uses custom hitsounds, they are not dramatically heavy, we have limitations on mapset size and we live in 2014 not in 2009.

I agree. it's funny how something sounds good with one sampleset but really bad with another or mixed with other hitsounds. The actual experience of the map as the mapper intends it to be is most likely whatever hitsounds they are using while they're mapping, hence it makes sense to include them, even if they're the default hitsounds. It works the same way as skinning; It looks ugly if you have a custom spinner, but the spinner metre is from whatever skin the player is using. Likewise, having a cymbal + ping-pong sounds awful in most cases.

Sieg wrote:

I guess you missed topic point it's not about using or ignoring skin hit sounds.

No, I didn't. The point is, you want to be able to switch between hearing your own custom hitsounds vs. default osu hitsounds (both with map hitsounds over) so you can hear what the mapper intended because it sometimes turns out differently with of your own hitsounds. Having a toggle for this would solve your problem without needing to add extra files to every map. If you don't want to hear strange shit, just use the default hitsounds. What you're proposing would just override your own custom hitsounds all the time, unless the mapper hasn't used ANY custom hitsounds...

I think a better solution for this would be adding an option in the main menu, in the skin section, for using the default hitsound samples for hitsounds that aren't customized in the map, when there are custom hitsound samples in the map.

Full Tablet wrote:

I think a better solution for this would be adding an option in the main menu, in the skin section, for using the default hitsound samples for hitsounds that aren't customized in the map, when there are custom hitsound samples in the map.

I agree!

I think that this should be left to taste and mapper discretion. After all, the mapper's the one who would be considering which custom sounds work best and how those custom sounds would work with other defaults.

I did run into one case where a mapper used the default normal-hitnormal as an additive sound, which sounded identical to the default normal. They only made this blunder as a result of having a custom hitnormal themselves. As such, I believe that we need not mandate your suggestion for when the mapper's got default hitsounds, but perhaps try to enforce something for mappers to make custom hitsounds play nice with default hitsounds.

You might be wondering why my suggestion is so one-sided, so I'll try to explain it further. When a skin has custom hitsounds, these are usually selected because of very specific player preferences, with sounds like normal-hitnormal being very distinct and tactile. Players who use these skins may despise the default hitnormal, at least as a base hitsound (as opposed to treating it as a snare drum), ergo they have nothing to lose if a map has an incomplete sample set.

In any case, if the player dislikes custom hitsounds, whether it's because of the sounds themselves or how they fit with a custom skin, the player is able to disable them. For those who use default hitsounds in their skin, clashing hitsounds won't be such a problem.

To try and wrap this up: As opposed to preventing clashing hitsounds via the enforcement of a full sample set, I'd prefer a different approach to the wording, such as:

Custom hitsounds must/should sound good with those of the default skin. This way, they are more likely to sound good in the context of the map as it's played. If your skin does not use default hitsounds, then take extra care to activate default hitsounds when testing your map.

This is really bad. Now (based off of what i have selectively read) I can only use the hitsounds the mapper wants, and now the maps with custom sounds are gonna be doubled if not tripled in size. I guess ill just have to recreate the hitsounds using an external program if I want to play the map. I recall seeing a suggestion to remove or be able to toggle custom sounds entirely, and i would assume that would be coming in an upcoming release of osu! if this is being set as a rule.

Then again it could be good. It could stop mappers from adding sounds entirely. Also might i throw in a tip to any mappers: Don't tone down the volume on the hitsounds to make them nearly inaudible. The hitsounds provide audio feedback to hitting the notes, and are there for keeping beat of the song. So what kind of logic is it to mute or nearly mute them. Rant over.

don't think this is necessary at all, if the mapper just wants to add a custom clap and default for the rest, why force adding all the rest? should be up to the mapper's preference

i regularly use custom hitsounds in my skin, and usually i don't force them because this is usually the case.

just seems like another pointless rule to make things harder for mappers

Complicated rules are complicated!

Sieg wrote:

You don't just put random score-3.png and left other ones to player skin set because this is nonsense. Why should you do that with hitsounds.

This is the entire thread, for those that are still missing the point and/or arguing against this.

those wrote:

Sieg wrote:

You don't just put random score-3.png and left other ones to player skin set because this is nonsense. Why should you do that with hitsounds.

This is the entire thread, for those that are still missing the point and/or arguing against this.

http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm

A has properties of B, so any rules provided to A must apply to B, even if the rules are completely out of context!

Come on,please don't kill mania mapper.

Spy wrote:

Come on,please don't kill mania mapper.

you right spy.. x_x i truly not support this.. you are going to killing mania mappers..

after some discussions with other members of the BAT and Dev, this issue is better addressed as a feature request rather than a rule.

@Sieg: please reform the OP and post it in feature requests, there will most likely be a toggle added in the near future to do what your proposal suggests.

Spy wrote:

Come on,please don't kill mania mapper.

Come on, read the thread first. This suggestion is not changing anything apart of copy pasting ~2 files already present in the default skin into the song folder in order to avoid weird mixtures of skin and map hitsounds.
As always you can toggle to ignore map hitsounds via the settings of beatmaps.


I find this suggestion silly. Most people who use skinned hitsounds are tempted to overwrite the entire custom hitsounding of a map anyways? And if a mixture is bad, your skin hitsounds are probably odd.

Loctav wrote:

Spy wrote:

Come on,please don't kill mania mapper.

Come on, read the thread first. This suggestion is not changing anything apart of copy pasting ~2 files already present in the default skin into the song folder in order to avoid weird mixtures of skin and map hitsounds.
As always you can toggle to ignore map hitsounds via the settings of beatmaps.


I find this suggestion silly. Most people who use skinned hitsounds are tempted to overwrite the entire custom hitsounding of a map anyways? And if a mixture is bad, your skin hitsounds are probably odd.

Oh
I understand the thread said.
And then I know it is for Standard.
But that is superfluous to mania.
Mania mappers are tired because much rules limited.
So I said that.
Any questions ?

Unfortunately, there won't be a toggle of any sort for this.

You have 2 options.

1. Change the fallback to default in map options,
2. Put in default hitsounds.

If you really care about this, put it in your mods when modding maps that do not do this! It'll go a long way for making a difference.

'fraid I'm guilty of substituting 1 or 2 hitsounds, usually a custom clap that fits the music and a silenced sliderslide. I just feel the others are generic enough so that they won't stick out like a sore thumb when compared to the music and not contrast too badly with the custom clap I put in. I don't mind too much when playing maps that substitute a couple hitsounds; some like Momochikun's substitute almost all the sounds except the occasional instance where he allows a single tick to be my normal hit-normal, and it ends up quite nice. If it really annoys me, like RLC's Pretender, ignore beatmap hitsounds.

Sieg wrote:

baraatje123 wrote:

No
Just no
I want to use the soft-whistle from the default skin, but I don't have the default skin (as a folder in my skins)
So I have all elements (hit-normal/clap/whistle/finish) for normal, and all except whistle for soft, because I can't find it anywhere.

Sorry what? You don't have to add any hitsounds if you use only defaults one.

There is only one default sample I would like to use.
I'm glad to see this has been denied, since I don't want to waste time looking for samples
I only use the samples that feel like it so most likely on the clap and mostly a whistle since I like the overusage of the whistle
And also, most people like other things. I use a other whistle, so the default whistle doesn't kill their ears, and a other clap, because that suits the song better (Take a look at Bibuko maps for example, they all use a specific clap sound, so the hitclap is almost the same)