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Primary - Negative Legacy [OsuMania]

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Sky_Demon
cool :)
[ Mephisto ]
unrank
Kayano

Reikosaka wrote:

OniJAM wrote:

01:34:576 (94576|4) - should snap at 01:34:734 -
02:19:693 (139693|4) - should snap at 02:19:732 -
Just a random dl and check
btw I guess DE-CADE can replace the bubble with heart if he want, there is already a bubble
you don't even pointed which diff this for :/
Sorry i forgot to point out it was in Normal.. glad to see you fixed it, gratz
Shiro
This rank is not valid. DE-CADE should have rebubbled, as he originally did before editing his post. Sorry, but I won't let this pass.

You need to find two different BATs to rebubble and rerank.
Arzenvald
o__O just played and getting error message... well... /-\
ArcherLove
DE-CADE please
Kayano

arcwinolivirus wrote:

Checked the updated notes and its metadata. Seems all fine to me. BUBBLED!
WHY
Even no unrankable issue was point out, there is no need to rebubble.
Sorry DE-CADE, feel free to hate me, really sorry.
Lirai
doesn't really matter, i wont hate you OniJAM
Topic Starter
Sorarei

OniJAM wrote:

01:34:576 (94576|4) - should snap at 01:34:734 - fixed error end snap
02:19:693 (139693|4) - should snap at 02:19:732 - i don't see any highlighted note, so i don't know what
Just a random dl and check
btw I guess DE-CADE can replace the bubble with heart if he want, there is already a bubble
thanks for little mod , maybe i should kudos since i changed from your mod lol

Ready for re-qualify </3 , hell yeah
17VA
I don't want to see this beatmap get a rank.

1. Fake BPM.

- This is most important reason for unrankable.

I play mania with 26 fixed speed.

When I playing this beatmap, I saw SVs are increasing x1.2 ..1.3.. 1.35 .. terribly.

It must be used only in instant speed changes, not a overall speed changes.

2. Overall Pattern's quality.

I can't find any senses on those patterns.

http://puu.sh/esALF/ca23e717cb.jpg - nah,...

Layering is the most important thing in mapping.

Example : http://puu.sh/ekOyH/0197cc50e9.png

Compare with BMS, IIDX, SDVX charts and your map. (like this)

BMS charts are made up of layers. piano layers, violin layers, drums layers, etc.

And those layers should play each instruments correctly.

but I can't feel "playing instruments" on this beatmap.

All of patterns are nonsense. I don't know what I'm hitting.

You should rework all sv chagnes and all patterns to rank.
Topic Starter
Sorarei

17VA wrote:

I don't want to see this beatmap get a rank.

1. Fake BPM. i don't understand this

- This is most important reason for unrankable.

I play mania with 26 fixed speed.

When I playing this beatmap, I saw SVs are increasing x1.2 ..1.3.. 1.35 .. terribly. i feel sorry to you, you must first seen this

It must be used only in instant speed changes, not a overall speed changes. ^

2. Overall Pattern's quality.

I can't find any senses on those patterns.

http://puu.sh/esALF/ca23e717cb.jpg - nah,...

Layering is the most important thing in mapping. i know your pattern perfect than me

Example : http://puu.sh/ekOyH/0197cc50e9.png

Compare with BMS, IIDX, SDVX charts and your map. (like this) i don't take any rhythm game as reference. but i did this from what i hear and i feel

BMS charts are made up of layers. piano layers, violin layers, drums layers, etc. are you want me to explain all of these pattern build for ? are you sure ?

And those layers should play each instruments correctly. ^

but I can't feel "playing instruments" on this beatmap. because you played based on the pattern not from the song.

All of patterns are nonsense. I don't know what I'm hitting. i know you perfect than me, but respect me

You should rework all sv chagnes and all patterns to rank. this is my work, and many people already give opinion on this map, you should think twice
this is not anymore suggest and it just something with full of not respecting suggest. do you have heart buddy ?
- Yuuto -
Rip... sdh2 sbar kak reika ;-;
Zan-
rage: start
Kyousuke-
Oh pls... Hope this will be quick requalify ;w;
KBS_old

Reikosaka wrote:

You should rework all sv chagnes and all patterns to rank. this is my work, and many people already give opinion on this map, you should think twice



it's quite nonsense. it means that you didn't respect many players/modders' opinions. even now.

they could got something suggestions because maps were not good to play. << you should think about it even once.

do you make maps for yourself? no, the map is for players. it's not for mapper own. but you didn't respect these opinions.

try to think more positive about your map to be more reasonable for overall players. don't focus only your opinon.

at least, for ranked. i have sure that your way is not ready for ranked.
Topic Starter
Sorarei

KBS wrote:

Reikosaka wrote:

You should rework all sv chagnes and all patterns to rank. this is my work, and many people already give opinion on this map, you should think twice



it's quite nonsense. it means that you didn't respect many players/modders' opinions. even now.

they could got something suggestions because maps were not good to play. << you should think about it even once.

do you make maps for yourself? no, the map is for players. it's not for mapper own. but you didn't respect these opinions.

try to think more positive about your map to be more reasonable for overall players. don't focus only your opinon.

at least, for ranked. i have sure that your way is not ready for ranked.
Let me the make it straight foward..

1. "you didn't respect many players/modders" , how many i try to make people understand will result like this comment. i am talked to much people about this maps.
2. "do you make maps for yourself? no, the map is for players" , i make this not only for my self.. but first thing it should make me feel happy. because its useless when people happy with your chart then you don't..
3. "try to think more positive about your map to be more reasonable for overall players" i am always positive thinking when someone give opinion, but it suck man if they likely to scold me..

About this "Extraordinary"

the Speed up SV (which make it enough fast) based on the phase of song, also its from my feels to make this.. i put various speed at this diff because its from the song. i hear the song not only with my ear, but i feel with my hearts too..

And the pattern, yes i think the pattern doesn't good as 17VA say. but well i am newbie of hard map so try to give some opinion instead "i don't want to see this ranked"
All pattern placement are following the beat, main synth , drum kit , guitar , ( i leave piano and sfx because its will make little weird).
Ayachi-
Try not to flame and start a drama here please and thank you
KBS_old
the post is not able to delete, sorry.
- Yuuto -
I don't think rework or remap somethings are a suggestion.
Starry-
No more drama please. ><

It's obvious that this map needs a few more mods / suggestions before it can go into qualification again, as different players have their different views about it, as we've seen here. Maybe this time around we can get some constructive criticism instead. However you must be willing to take this criticism and improve on it. Why qualify a map when the own creator calls the patterns 'not good'?

Also talking about the SV - it's best to tone it down a bit more just so we don't get complaints. It may 'feel good with the music', but this is a rhythm game we're talking about. Patterns and SVs need to be best for the player, so it's best rather than being on the edge of rankability, but instead making it safe and nice to play for all players in the specified target audience.

I'm not hating on anyone here, I'm just stating my opinion on this situation.

I hope this map gets fixed up a bit more and goes into qualification again.

Goodluck.
Fullerene-

17VA wrote:

When I playing this beatmap, I saw SVs are increasing x1.2 ..1.3.. 1.35 .. terribly.

It must be used only in instant speed changes, not a overall speed changes.
While I personally think that anything over 1.15x/under 0.8x for long periods should be used sparingly, there's no rule saying "you must not use SVs other than 1.0x for long periods of the chart". What about slowjam? Does that mean you can't make the chart scroll slower when the song gets quiet/slow?

Did you not notice the patterns during the faster sections being simpler and easy to read? I'm pretty sure Reikosaka took that into account to make it smoother to transition into.

Compare with BMS, IIDX, SDVX charts and your map. (like this)

BMS charts are made up of layers. piano layers, violin layers, drums layers, etc.

And those layers should play each instruments correctly.

but I can't feel "playing instruments" on this beatmap.

All of patterns are nonsense. I don't know what I'm hitting.
Limiting your patterning to laning (specific columns for specific sounds) isn't the only way to layer/pattern expressively. If anything it results in inconsistent chord densities if one doesn't notice it.
Also, in your example chart, the layering gets really messy during the denser portions. Further, the difficulty here has a massive spectrum when the song barely changes intensity. That's a terrible example.

You should rework all sv chagnes and all patterns to rank.
nice opinions, now would you please stop being a dick?


but then again i don't play 7k and i can't map 7k well so i'm obviously stupid and don't have enough credibility to be worth the effort
Bobbias

Fullerene- wrote:

17VA wrote:

When I playing this beatmap, I saw SVs are increasing x1.2 ..1.3.. 1.35 .. terribly.

It must be used only in instant speed changes, not a overall speed changes.
While I personally think that anything over 1.15x/under 0.8x for long periods should be used sparingly, there's no rule saying "you must not use SVs other than 1.0x for long periods of the chart". What about slowjam? Does that mean you can't make the chart scroll slower when the song gets quiet/slow?

Did you not notice the patterns during the faster sections being simpler and easy to read? I'm pretty sure Reikosaka took that into account to make it smoother to transition into.
Agreed. I find myself telling a lot of people not to use speedups the exact same way 17va is for this map, but the difference here is that the speedups were well thought out here, and accounted for with the patterns. I play FL, which makes SVs that much harder, and the high speed sections here are actually my most consistent part of the map. Awkward patterns or patterns that use unusual layering are not unrankable.

Telling someone to remap their entire map is just being a dick, unless you are willing to spend hours pointing out enough outright mistakes to prove your point.

BMS style layering is only one kind of layering, and it also makes many awkward or painful patterns. Even if the patterns in this are difficult to understand, they are readable, and playable, and the map is structured well to match the structure of the song.

If you don't like the map, that's fine. But don't use that as an excuse to try to force Reikosaka to change perfectly rankable patterns because you don't happen to like them. 'Not fun' is not the same as 'Bad Map'.
Valedict

sometimes


it is better to not be so much a dick to mapper
Ayachi-

Bobbias wrote:

Agreed. I find myself telling a lot of people not to use speedups the exact same way 17va is for this map, but the difference here is that the speedups were well thought out here, and accounted for with the patterns.
Did you mean Reikosaka because I am a bit confused here
Bobbias
No, I meant that I actually usually agree with what 17va said, and I agree with what Fullerene was saying in his post. I usually say that speeds above 1x should only be used for very short effects, the same way 17va said. However, this map is an example of the rare case of someone actually using high speed SVs well, so even if they should only be used in rare cases, this is one of those rare cases where they are fine.
Julie
Hi hiii guys, let's just focus on getting mod and bat to rank normal way :D!!

If you guys find some stuff you don't like, help out this map by modding :3!

gl on re-ranking ^^
Ayachi-

Bobbias wrote:

No, I meant that I actually usually agree with what 17va said, and I agree with what Fullerene was saying in his post. I usually say that speeds above 1x should only be used for very short effects, the same way 17va said. However, this map is an example of the rare case of someone actually using high speed SVs well, so even if they should only be used in rare cases, this is one of those rare cases where they are fine.
Ok. Sorry for misunderstanding.
Bobbias

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

Bobbias wrote:

No, I meant that I actually usually agree with what 17va said, and I agree with what Fullerene was saying in his post. I usually say that speeds above 1x should only be used for very short effects, the same way 17va said. However, this map is an example of the rare case of someone actually using high speed SVs well, so even if they should only be used in rare cases, this is one of those rare cases where they are fine.
Ok. Sorry for misunderstanding.
I reread what I said and noticed it might be easy to misunderstand, so I figured I should try to be as clear as possible this time around.
Loctav
Hello everybody!
Formally, the disqualification was a bit unnecessay for the listed reasons, yet I'd like to arise a few things that concern me a lot. Attention was brought to me for this mapset because of this rather doubtful disqualification, yet, apart of why it actually got disqualfiied, I have serious concerns about certain things in this mapset:

Count in 1|2|3|4|5|6|7

[Extraordinary]

00:20:841 (20841|6,20841|3,20920|5,20920|1,20999|6,20999|4,21078|5,21078|2) - This is basically mapped to nothing. I really tried to figure out where this is coming from. Especially because 00:20:920 (20920|1,20920|5,20999|4,20999|6,21078|2,21078|5) - are having soft hitsounds, its proving the point that this notes were made super silent, so this overmapping does not disrupt the song itself.
On this other side 00:23:368 (23368|0,23368|1,23447|2,23447|3,23525|1,23604|3,23604|0,23683|1,23683|2) - is working fine with the background noise supporting it. Unfortunately, this background noise is not given on the first spot. Try to be more careful!
00:25:736 (25736|6,25736|5,25815|3,25815|4) - this is a bit unnecessarily tricky, I guess. Especially 00:25:736 (25736|6) - . Listening closely, the 1/4 is not beginning here, but a bit later. (Actually here: 00:25:894 (25894|2) -)
00:28:420 (28420|6,28420|4,28499|5,28499|3,28578|4,28578|2,28657|6,28657|5,28736|4) - this again is overdone like at the first point.
00:48:236 (48236|5) - I would put that on the 6th column. Just a suggestion. Putting this on the 4th is impractical for lefties, which use the left thumb on space. Putting it on 6th may play this 1/4 with left hand, right hand and left hand for everyone.
01:00:157 (60157|6) - Why does this end earlier?
01:01:578 (61578|3) - this early ending is confusing me, because the previous 4-holds are following the vocals and this one suddenly stops in the middle of the stanza. I'd lengthen it and adjust it to the actual vocal length.
01:02:051 (62051|6) - again no idea why this ends earlier than the others.
01:05:682 (65682|2,65682|5,65761|3,65761|0,65840|4,65840|1,65919|3,65919|5) - there are no 1/4 in the music :(
01:08:208 (68208|3,68208|1,68208|6,68287|2,68287|4,68366|5,68366|6,68445|2,68445|3) - ^
01:10:735 (70735|5,70735|1,70735|3,70735|0,70814|4,70814|2,70893|5,70893|0,70972|3,70972|1) - ^
(and so on...)

02:00:786 (120786|0,120786|6,120865|1,120865|5,120944|2,120944|0,120944|6,120944|4) - I think this SV change can be made more smooth. It's a bit too stuttery here. The previous ones were working perfectly, but this one has a rather iffy transistion compared to the others. Try to make the speedup/slowdown more smooth, so it's not too sudden and a bit more predictable on the first attempt of playing this beatmap.

02:30:469 (150469|0,150469|3,150548|6,150548|4,150627|2,150627|0,150627|3) - whereas you put 1/4 stuff in the kiai time where are no 1/4, you are leaving out the 1/4 here entirely. Try to add stuff here, I'd recommend it.

03:03:468 (183468|6,183468|0,183468|4,183468|3,183468|2) - I believe that this can even be more drastic, but this is just a suggestion!

03:18:310 (198310|2,198310|6,198310|4) - slow the section down more severely, speed up till 03:18:625 (198625|0,198625|5,198625|3) - and then let it run with your planned SV. I think this SV change is not noticeable enough. I think a more noticeable speedchange would benefit this effect.


----

So let me summarize: The spread seems fine, but some stuff on the Extraordinary diff makes me worry. I'd recommend, to get this ranked and improved:
  1. Revise your note placement. Some stuff is overmapped, whereas you leave out offering sound samples on other spots, which you did not map, even if they could
  2. Revise some SV changes. Whereas most of them are really good (and the usage of slowdowns and speedups for a bigger section seem to fit here quite well), especially the short effect speedups and slowdowns to simulate a "sudden dropdown" are not as good as they could be. If you need help with that, try to look on some Lieselotte maps or ask me for help. I can try to adjust the speed changes for you, if you don't mind.
  3. Some holds are behaving oddly. They are not ending or beginning where they actually should begin and end. Try to look into that, too!
  4. Avoid making stuff more tricky than needed. Keep in mind, how hands are used. Keep in mind, the middle column (4th) is used by left and right hand, theoretically, since there are people either playing this one with the left or with the right hand thumb (if standard key layout is given). Try to keep in mind, how this plays for different setups. This isn't a specific issue in this mapset itself, but the one or another pattern can be improved and be made more fluent without breaking the entire map.
The disqualification itself was unjustified. I actually planned to requalify this instantly to revoke this decision, but I saw that the Extraordinary diff may need a few more adjustments. I also did not check the other difficulties indepth, yet they seemed fine during testplaying on first glance.
I am all up for requalifying this, whenever someone from the BAT felt like rebubbling this. Make sure to keep my addressed issues in mind.

Keep in mind I am a busy person, but I'd like to get this back. Just bother me in-game and I try to do my best to help you out here.
Fullerene-
Also taking the opportunity to share this. It might be useful for your future SV ventures.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3740759/svc.html
shionelove
Mod before opinion plz
That mod helps mapper improve
Only opinion only drama
Spy
Why you guys like to make drama ? It is enough.
Topic Starter
Sorarei

Spy wrote:

Why you guys like to make drama ? It is enough.
Lock this thread
Kamikaze
Drama is already over, let Reika apply changes and get this back on the board
Good luck with getting it back btw :D
Topic Starter
Sorarei

Loctav wrote:

Hello everybody!
Formally, the disqualification was a bit unnecessay for the listed reasons, yet I'd like to arise a few things that concern me a lot. Attention was brought to me for this mapset because of this rather doubtful disqualification, yet, apart of why it actually got disqualfiied, I have serious concerns about certain things in this mapset:

Count in 1|2|3|4|5|6|7

[Extraordinary]

00:20:841 (20841|6,20841|3,20920|5,20920|1,20999|6,20999|4,21078|5,21078|2) - This is basically mapped to nothing. I really tried to figure out where this is coming from. Especially because 00:20:920 (20920|1,20920|5,20999|4,20999|6,21078|2,21078|5) - are having soft hitsounds, its proving the point that this notes were made super silent, so this overmapping does not disrupt the song itself.
On this other side 00:23:368 (23368|0,23368|1,23447|2,23447|3,23525|1,23604|3,23604|0,23683|1,23683|2) - is working fine with the background noise supporting it. Unfortunately, this background noise is not given on the first spot. Try to be more careful! fixed
00:25:736 (25736|6,25736|5,25815|3,25815|4) - this is a bit unnecessarily tricky, I guess. Especially 00:25:736 (25736|6) - . Listening closely, the 1/4 is not beginning here, but a bit later. (Actually here: 00:25:894 (25894|2) -) fixed
00:28:420 (28420|6,28420|4,28499|5,28499|3,28578|4,28578|2,28657|6,28657|5,28736|4) - this again is overdone like at the first point. fixed
00:48:236 (48236|5) - I would put that on the 6th column. Just a suggestion. Putting this on the 4th is impractical for lefties, which use the left thumb on space. Putting it on 6th may play this 1/4 with left hand, right hand and left hand for everyone. it doesn't really needed because its only single note
01:00:157 (60157|6) - Why does this end earlier? Actually, its the synth hat. same with 00:53:367 (53367|3) - or 01:18:787 (78787|5) - but somehow its weird so i removed it.
01:01:578 (61578|3) - this early ending is confusing me, because the previous 4-holds are following the vocals and this one suddenly stops in the middle of the stanza. I'd lengthen it and adjust it to the actual vocal length. same with previous
01:02:051 (62051|6) - again no idea why this ends earlier than the others.
01:05:682 (65682|2,65682|5,65761|3,65761|0,65840|4,65840|1,65919|3,65919|5) - there are no 1/4 in the music :( fixed
01:08:208 (68208|3,68208|1,68208|6,68287|2,68287|4,68366|5,68366|6,68445|2,68445|3) - fixed
01:10:735 (70735|5,70735|1,70735|3,70735|0,70814|4,70814|2,70893|5,70893|0,70972|3,70972|1) - ^ there's 1/4 hard guitar beat here
(and so on...)

02:00:786 (120786|0,120786|6,120865|1,120865|5,120944|2,120944|0,120944|6,120944|4) - I think this SV change can be made more smooth. It's a bit too stuttery here. The previous ones were working perfectly, but this one has a rather iffy transistion compared to the others. Try to make the speedup/slowdown more smooth, so it's not too sudden and a bit more predictable on the first attempt of playing this beatmap. i removed it, slowing or smoothing wouldn't get better.

02:30:469 (150469|0,150469|3,150548|6,150548|4,150627|2,150627|0,150627|3) - whereas you put 1/4 stuff in the kiai time where are no 1/4, you are leaving out the 1/4 here entirely. Try to add stuff here, I'd recommend it. im really sure it has 1/4 kick roll

03:03:468 (183468|6,183468|0,183468|4,183468|3,183468|2) - I believe that this can even be more drastic, but this is just a suggestion! do you want me to make this sudden fast or sudden appears ?

03:18:310 (198310|2,198310|6,198310|4) - slow the section down more severely, speed up till 03:18:625 (198625|0,198625|5,198625|3) - and then let it run with your planned SV. I think this SV change is not noticeable enough. I think a more noticeable speedchange would benefit this effect. let's try with reducing by 0.1x


----

So let me summarize: The spread seems fine, but some stuff on the Extraordinary diff makes me worry. I'd recommend, to get this ranked and improved:
  1. Revise your note placement. Some stuff is overmapped, whereas you leave out offering sound samples on other spots, which you did not map, even if they could
  2. Revise some SV changes. Whereas most of them are really good (and the usage of slowdowns and speedups for a bigger section seem to fit here quite well), especially the short effect speedups and slowdowns to simulate a "sudden dropdown" are not as good as they could be. If you need help with that, try to look on some Lieselotte maps or ask me for help. I can try to adjust the speed changes for you, if you don't mind.
  3. Some holds are behaving oddly. They are not ending or beginning where they actually should begin and end. Try to look into that, too!
  4. Avoid making stuff more tricky than needed. Keep in mind, how hands are used. Keep in mind, the middle column (4th) is used by left and right hand, theoretically, since there are people either playing this one with the left or with the right hand thumb (if standard key layout is given). Try to keep in mind, how this plays for different setups. This isn't a specific issue in this mapset itself, but the one or another pattern can be improved and be made more fluent without breaking the entire map.
The disqualification itself was unjustified. I actually planned to requalify this instantly to revoke this decision, but I saw that the Extraordinary diff may need a few more adjustments. I also did not check the other difficulties indepth, yet they seemed fine during testplaying on first glance.
I am all up for requalifying this, whenever someone from the BAT felt like rebubbling this. Make sure to keep my addressed issues in mind.

Keep in mind I am a busy person, but I'd like to get this back. Just bother me in-game and I try to do my best to help you out here.
thank you so much loctav for your detailed moderation
Senritsu
semangat saka >v<)9
Topic Starter
Sorarei
Loctav where are you :(

Edit : Updated and ready
Topic Starter
Sorarei
will going to graved again , if none of BAT/QAT take a look of this.
Loctav
You have to actively look for mods from the BATs from yourself. The QAT won't act here :P

Just a little few more things. Sorry for the delay but my internet is a bit refusive to work lately.

[Metadata]

Add "ゆいこ" and "ゆいこんぬ" to the tags.

[Extraordinary]

02:53:994 (173994|0,173994|1) - I find this "little jack" a bit misplaced, considering the calmness of this part. I would slim out this section or fix it in a way that it is no little jack anymore

This should be all and we can get this rolling after that, I hope. The SV changes look good now. Like it!
Topic Starter
Sorarei

Loctav wrote:

You have to actively look for mods from the BATs from yourself. The QAT won't act here :P

Just a little few more things. Sorry for the delay but my internet is a bit refusive to work lately.

[Metadata]

Add "ゆいこ" and "ゆいこんぬ" to the tags. added

[Extraordinary]

02:53:994 (173994|0,173994|1) - I find this "little jack" a bit misplaced, considering the calmness of this part. I would slim out this section or fix it in a way that it is no little jack anymore i almost don't understand, it took me several minutes with this things lol, fixed

This should be all and we can get this rolling after that, I hope. The SV changes look good now. Like it!
Updated ;_;
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