Removed.

PyaKura wrote:

Spy wrote:

Part 1 Translation

===REMOVED===

Thanks Spy.

Still WIP..

THE Channel IS R.I.P

oh god.... I was never into mania but I know how important it is
many people join just to play it...
let's hope for the best
I read the translated test and I think it really can't be helped ;w; but what if ppy finds another dev?

Even though there were no mods included....Mania will be missed R.I.P

Spy wrote:

You'll see 3 kinds of things here :
1.Code
2.management
3.Ban account and anit-cheat

that 3rd part has me a little on edge. if you're going to translate this, could you send me a early copy so i can check for anything that shouldn't really been said?

deadbeat wrote:

Spy wrote:

You'll see 3 kinds of things here :
1.Code
2.management
3.Ban account and anit-cheat

that 3rd part has me a little on edge. if you're going to translate this, could you send me a early copy so i can check for anything that shouldn't really been said?

I won't translate it.

even better :3

Stefan wrote:

Taiko is broken as shit and no one cares

It is?

rip woc

no more make people happy ;_;7

R.I.P Mania

Bye mania, time to move on i guess

CaptainAhab wrote:

Stefan wrote:

Taiko is broken as shit and no one cares

It is?

eyup.

- The only mode with the endless end bug.
- Kiai is broken.
- the Taiko banner (on the upper side) has still no fix.
- wrong background postion since Taiko BG are unrankable (for whatever reasons)

I am sure there are some little more things.

Stefan wrote:

eyup.

- The only mode with the endless end bug.
- Kiai is broken.
- the Taiko banner (on the upper side) has still no fix.
- wrong background postion since Taiko BG are unrankable (for whatever reasons)

I am sure there are some little more things.

mania :
- Official doesn't support .ogg anymore,means keysound map is dead.
- Sample import broken,we can add sample by it,but first one is normal,after add second sample,your sample is silence,ppy never knows that is the main reason he killed osu!mania mappers because hitsounds are for rules to be rankable.
- Keysound maps are silence.

Stefan wrote:

eyup.

- The only mode with the endless end bug.
- Kiai is broken.
- the Taiko banner (on the upper side) has still no fix.
- wrong background postion since Taiko BG are unrankable (for whatever reasons)

I am sure there are some little more things.

Is there a chance of these ever being dealt with? Or should players just look to other ways to play Taiko?

Spy wrote:

mania :
- Official doesn't support .ogg anymore,means keysound map is dead.
- Sample import broken,we can add sample by it,but first one is normal,after add second sample,your sample is silence,ppy never knows that is the main reason he killed osu!mania mappers because hitsounds are for rules to be rankable.
- Keysound maps are silence.

+1

ishimaru94 wrote:

Spy wrote:

mania :
- Official doesn't support .ogg anymore,means keysound map is dead.
- Sample import broken,we can add sample by it,but first one is normal,after add second sample,your sample is silence,ppy never knows that is the main reason he killed osu!mania mappers because hitsounds are for rules to be rankable.
- Keysound maps are silence.

+1

+100

ExPew wrote:

Spy wrote:

mania :
- Official doesn't support .ogg anymore,means keysound map is dead.
- Sample import broken,we can add sample by it,but first one is normal,after add second sample,your sample is silence,ppy never knows that is the main reason he killed osu!mania mappers because hitsounds are for rules to be rankable.
- Keysound maps are silence.

+100

+1000000000000000099999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

hax

Spy wrote:

- Official doesn't support .ogg anymore,means keysound map is dead.
- Keysound maps are silence.

This has never been supported in osu! so this has been disabled. Also I am talking about Gameplay issues, not mapping issues. However still no one give a damn about these issues in the Taiko Mode and o!m had since the first day more support as CTB or Taiko.

Spy wrote:

- Sample import broken,we can add sample by it,but first one is normal,after add second sample,your sample is silence,ppy never knows that is the main reason he killed osu!mania mappers because hitsounds are for rules to be rankable.

About this issue I am divided, for one; people are not forced to get their stuff ranked. We all know that some unranked Beatmaps are popular, even legendary how they have been mapped. On the other side, it takes the option away so it restrict a part of freedom in o!m Mapping. as said I am divided about this problem.

CaptainAhab wrote:

Is there a chance of these ever being dealt with? Or should players just look to other ways to play Taiko?

I don't know, I guess waiting and living with them is the only we can do.

RIP oggs. You'll be missed.

Everyone implying Mania is dead. Its not like there is no other developer in this world who could code the stuff woc coded.

For the time no one other is found tho, it'll stay at that unbelievable mess state it is in right now. Instead of everybody whining about the "worlds end" or whatsoever, we maybe, just maaaybe, could try to get things going back to a right path and fix stuff somehow. Simply crying never solved any problems, lul.

Not to hate or anything, but i just think its hilarious that mania is "dead" just because a dev left.
Or, as Drace said, implying it ever really lived.
lol.

RIP mania

I like games where no one has authority so I'm going back to lr2 lol

~land of freedom~

Guess I'll end up moving to LR2 or another VSRG. I'll just wait and see how things evolve here...

@Tori : read woc's long post with google translate or something, things written in there are pretty "interesting" ;o .

I think woc leaving won't really affect o!m development if we get a good enough replacement. It would take several weeks' or even months' time though, depending on the size of the code, for said replacement to be familiarized to it.

If we chose not to, then so be it. o!m showed at lot of potential, though. And for someone without a VSRG to come back to, it's quite saddening.

The problem isn't that we don't have a dev atm: if you've read his explanation, you'd know even if we get a really good dev things won't change because of the current mindset.
If the mindset changes, the rest will follow.

[TaikoTori] wrote:

Its not like there is no other developer in this world who could code the stuff woc coded.

It's just who in their right mind would want to.

This is just a result of mania community getting the shitty end of the stick with peppy for 1.5 years. Finally having something like woc quitting fired some excitement. Everyone who's saying mania is dead has tried, some even worked their asses off, to improve mania. Only to get shorthanded by one of peppy's tyrannical, nonsensical decisions based purely off what he likes to call "his vision of osu".

It's not about the coding abilities, it's his attitude. He threw a game mode into his game and he doesn't even know what it is. The least he could is accept what the people around him suggests.

Alas, getting through to him is too much hassle compared to just moving on to one of the better VSRGs, or contributing to a new one. Let's all follow woc's example.

Move along people, nothing to see here

#RIP!mania

Drace wrote:

#RIP!mania

I guess we're left with just other modes, I'll have to search for a good o2 server later

deadbeat wrote:

Spy wrote:

You'll see 3 kinds of things here :
1.Code
2.management
3.Ban account and anit-cheat

that 3rd part has me a little on edge. if you're going to translate this, could you send me a early copy so i can check for anything that shouldn't really been said?

What do you mean, "anything that shouldn't really been said"?
Getting the basic gist of what woc is saying in that post is as easy as running it through Google translate. He's basically just complaining about the submission process for updates (with peppy having to manually approve each and every little change in the code) and the fact that 70% of the base code of osu! are still the same as in 2007, making it hard to implement bigger changes in the osu!mania game mode and editor.

Edit: Ooh, there's more to it than that one page... Page 2 is where things get interesting. He seems to talk about peppy not wanting to ban a popular player despite something them doing something that was against the rules, although Google Translator doesn't make it clear what offense that presumably was. Though, it does show that woc claims peppy had delayed that ban "because he felt that this man too powerful , ban osu community would break out , remember that time ppy to say, The following will be mentioned again."
Oh, and he talks about cookiezi, too. Fun stuff.

anything that shouldn't be said is referring to the "ban account an anti cheat"

censoring ofc.

i think its because they don't want to disclose anything that can bypass their system.

Don't know guys, but I think you overtake it now.
I'm not sure what happened there between woc and ppy, and to be honest I don't want to know it. But while taiko has needed 5~6 years of community-, system- and ranking-development ( which were marked with many discussions, problems and more ), mania just had about one year which is not even comperable with the first year of taiko; a time where taiko was only a mod like Hidden or Hardrock nowadays is and where we had no rights at all. And we didn't even had a Taiko-Mode developer. All we had was us, the community. Nowadays, I can proudly say that due to our community the other gamemodes have got their benefits through it as well.

So why rely only on one person? I'm not in the position to tell you guys what to do; neither do I know the community really well at this point. woc did on his way a great job so far, but maybe now is the time where you guys have to think together about solutions for certain problems. You have even better possibilities than osu and Taiko back then. Of course, it won't be always easy and sometimes there will be for sure some dispute. But this shouldn't stop you -the community- to work for their gamemode. After all, it seems like most of you guys have some kind of same goal; the improvement of this game mode, not?
- I know. It is easier to relay on one person and do nothing. In this way you can't harm yourself by doing wrong actions. But having no action will not bring you any further at all, or just make the develpoment process slower.

What you could do some may ask? Hm... it depends of your situation. You could try to find the core problem for example. But don't blame other people for it. After all it won't help you at all and makes you go all po pi po(rage), I think. Neither does "RIP mania" help. lol

But hey. It happens often that in difficulties situations, the right people / groups appear. Sooner or later.
Best luck from my site, I guess.

Stefan wrote:

Taiko is broken as shit and no one cares.. well, let me join this group

Actually not. It is mostly fine. Just here and there some minor bugs. The past was by far worse.


P.s.: Really guys, don't underrestimate your community. Together you can do much more.

OnosakiHito wrote:

So why rely only on one person? I'm not in the position to tell you guys what to do; neither do I know the community really well at this point. woc did on his way a great job so far, but maybe now is the time where you guys have to think together about solutions for certain problems. You have even better possibilities than osu and Taiko back then. Of course, it won't be always easy and sometimes there will be for sure some dispute. But this shouldn't stop you -the community- to work for their gamemode. After all, it seems like most of you guys have some kind of same goal; the improvement of this game mode, not?

This. Preach it please. As a community, we should be able to do more things than one person is able to do. Easy to say, I know, but it's easier to maintain something with a group rather than alone. There will probably be a few people who can really understand the code and be able to maintain and improve it. It's not like without woc nobody has any idea what to do with mania and will just scrap it all together. Though maybe the hard part will be getting to ppy.

OnosakiHito wrote:

Don't know guys, but I think you overtake it now.
I'm not sure what happened there between woc and ppy, and to be honest I don't want to know it. But while taiko has needed 5~6 years of community-, system- and ranking-development ( which were marked with many discussions, problems and more ), mania just had about one year which is not even comperable with the first year of taiko; a time where taiko was only a mod like Hidden or Hardrock nowadays is and where we had no rights at all. And we didn't even had a Taiko-Mode developer. All we had was us, the community. Nowadays, I can proudly say that due to our community the other gamemodes have got their benefits through it as well.

So why rely only on one person? I'm not in the position to tell you guys what to do; neither do I know the community really well at this point. woc did on his way a great job so far, but maybe now is the time where you guys have to think together about solutions for certain problems. You have even better possibilities than osu and Taiko back then. Of course, it won't be always easy and sometimes there will be for sure some dispute. But this shouldn't stop you -the community- to work for their gamemode. After all, it seems like most of you guys have some kind of same goal; the improvement of this game mode, not?
- I know. It is easier to relay on one person and do nothing. In this way you can't harm yourself by doing wrong actions. But having no action will not bring you any further at all, or just make the develpoment process slower.

What you could do some may ask? Hm... it depends of your situation. You could try to find the core problem for example. But don't blame other people for it. After all it won't help you at all and makes you go all po pi po(rage), I think. Neither does "RIP mania" help. lol

But hey. It happens often that in difficulties situations, the right people / groups appear. Sooner or later.
Best luck from my site, I guess.

Stefan wrote:

Taiko is broken as shit and no one cares.. well, let me join this group

Actually not. It is mostly fine. Just here and there some minor bugs. The past was by far worse.


P.s.: Really guys, don't underrestimate your community. Together you can do much more.

Wow. You think the community just sat on their asses and did nothing this whole time? We throw everything we got on every turn just to get ignored. And if it weren't for peppy the 5-6 years it took taiko to develop would of been done within a year. All the fighting and arguing would of been bypassed right there.

You're right, don't underestimate the VSRG community. We'll get what we want one way or an other. But it mostly likely won't be here.

Basically what Drace said. It's not like the o!m community is lazy or whatever, and woc seemed to be willing to take o!m players' suggestions into account. The only issue here - and it's sad to say so - is the behaviour/mindset of ppy himself.

@DestinySonata: peppy is hard to catch anyway, so the first people you should rather contact (for big matters) are the community managers. That's how I did it in the past for Taiko specific sets. Have well founded reasons for certain situations/problems and present it to the community managers in form of a Pm or so. They will have an ear for you for sure. After all, that's their job. Heh

@Drace: No, you missunderstood me. I'm talking about current situation. If you tried already, that's good. But again, Taiko had the same problems in the past (even more; oh the wars...) and you will have to go through it as well if you take the same path we did. Raging at peppy or someone else is no solution at all. It will just lead to ignore or more rage which no one needs at all. A more helpful way is to sum the threads up you have posted so often and explain the situation. Again, ppy has much to do anyway, the Community Managers are those you should contact. And only open requests threads is something I shouldn't command on my position... lol

Again, I do not say the community did nothing, no. But at the end you have to ask your-self: Was it enough?

Then I ask, why should we put up with such nonsense? I in no what see spending 5-6 years for inches of improvement as a productive way for the vsrg community to waste their time on. Unlike taiko, there's plenty of better alternatives about there for VSRGs. There's also new one's in the works that needs attention. If peppy can't listen to his staff and community, he's just gonna lose to the competition.

Our community expands well beyond just osu

Well, I think that's something the community has to decide...? In Taiko we had the same options: Either we go outside to our other communities with over 8k / 10k players but with a bad system or we stay in osu! and try the best out of it. We saw potential in it and its system (what other rythm game provides such a ranking / mapping system in that dimension?). At the end it payed off for all of us (we have still some bugs, but situations are by far better than back then lol).
And I have to say that the communities it-self (I mean its people) is also a big indicator here, or not? I don't know how you guys think about it, but in the past I didn't only discussed for my gamemode because I liked it. It were the people I have provide solidarity to as well.

I'm sure in mania there are also people who have found good friends in this game. And fighting with / for them is something I wouldn't consider as nonsense!

I believe at least this is some reason why someone might want to get things forward.
You have it in your hand. Your generation - and only yours - is the one which can do the really big changes right now and which you can talk about in the future. woc has set the fundament - you can build on it now. It might take some time, but you can build on it slowly. It will have an effect on the upcoming generation.

Also, you are not alone after all. We have the other specific game modes as well which might support you in some way as well. :p

Stefan wrote:

Spy wrote:

This has never been supported in osu! so this has been disabled. Also I am talking about Gameplay issues, not mapping issues.

you don't talk about gameplay when people stopped mapping.

First off, I would like to establish that I have been privy to this whole situation from start to finish, as per my role as a developer before I assumed the duties of community management, well before woc was added to the development team for his exemplary work on the osu!mania gamemode. woc has always been hard-working and kept mania on the forefront as far as features go, and for that, a lot of players are thankful.

There are, however, when a developer's interest clash with where the project he's working on wants to go. The issues outlined by woc on his baidu BBS posts essentially stem from that - he had a vision for mania that did not align with what peppy saw for the future's gamemode. This is a difficult thing to resolve, and a source of huge frustration for everything involved. Naturally, this frustration simmered as no attempt of compromise on either side was made.

What woc then chose to do, was completely unacceptable. Instead of amiably choosing to put his title aside and work on other things he essentially-- for the lack of a better term-- shit the bed. He went ahead and deleted half a year's worth of his own contributed code (over 20 branches) which while he is entitled to do (being his own code and all), is completely against the spirit of a developer's contribution to the game and is something considered extremely unprofessional in many cooperative enterprises. The guise that "the code would become peppy's" is ridiculous - he would retain all proper attributions and accolades given his work, even if he was no longer a developer.

I would encourage you to decide for yourselves whether deleting dozens of essentially complete feature upgrades for mania players fits in with the "let players play" attitude he purportedly outlines in his BBS post.

It is a sad situation, honestly. I understand people's frustrations with this whole affair as well - but it does not spell the end of osu!mania as a gamemode, or its continued support and implementation on the development side. Community initiatives are an important part of any game, and osu! is no different - there is a lot of things that can be done by users to help expedite the process of making osu!mania more playable for everyone outside of development time. I encourage everyone to put a bit of work into discussing and updating the osu!mania ranking criteria, for starters. Additionally, modding and mapping are also extremely important endeavours as more osu!mania BAT are in need given the gamemode's rising popularity.

osu!mania is not dead - it's barely even getting started.

Well if woc's and peppy's ideals clash. I'll stand behind woc. Peppy doesn't know anything about the natures of VSRGs from what I see.

If woc wanted to take his work with him, full support.

Ephemeral wrote:

Naturally, this frustration simmered as no attempt of compromise on either side was made.

No offense, but peppy seems to have terrible communication skills. I obviously wasn't there but the way he interacts with the community is... very odd at times. I'm getting the impression that a sizable amount of people don't like him. There doesn't seem to be any protocols in place... for dealing with these kind of issues. I can't really explain it, he just keeps infuriating the community over and over.

Well if woc's and peppy's ideals clash. I'll stand behind woc. Peppy doesn't know anything about the natures of VSRGs from what I see.

Peppy doesn't know anything about the natures of VSRGs from what I see.

Peppy doesn't know anything

+∞

Drace wrote:

Well if woc's and peppy's ideals clash. I'll stand behind woc. Peppy doesn't know anything about the natures of VSRGs from what I see.

If woc wanted to take his work with him, full support.

This

For what it's worth, woc didn't even tell peppy he was leaving, he just packed up and left without any official words or explanations to the dev team. The lack of communication is at least mutual.

You can only try so much until you give up and move on.
See ya around and good luck gents.

-Jin

RIP Jin Xero

So peppy disclosed he that he doesn't care about improving mania as long as there's some people enjoying the game. Fun stuff.

RIP

Though he mentioned open-sourcing osu. That'd be fabulous. He said it won't be easy to do... I don't how that would be hard to achieve at all though. Actually, it's quite easy. Sounds like he's messing with us.

Peppy handled things poorly, woc handled things poorly.

I sincerely hope osu does go open source sooner rather than later.

Ephemeral wrote:

osu!mania is not dead - it's barely even getting started.

All I'm gonna say is it's not off to anywhere near as good a start as it could have been.

This thread is SHOCKING. You guys are shocking...

osu!mania will not die as long as I am alive I may not fix it, but I will reimplement it in a future-proof way. Beatmania was the first rhythm game I played and it has a place in my heart. Stay or leave, that's your choice, but stop posting this kind of shit please!

(if anything, this gives me a lot more freedom to improve mania. i held back a lot because woc didn't like me messing with his code. expect a lot more activity in the near future!)