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What is Raw Input?

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Topic Starter
peppy
Raw input allows osu! to read mouse/tablet values directly from the hardware, without any post-processing. As a result, it can bypas windows bugs and acceleration algorithms. It can also allow for tablet sensitivity adjustment without setting a custom tablet area mapping at driver-level.

Why did you even bother adding this? Input was fine already.

It fixes an issue with Windows 8.1 where mouse sensitivities other than 1.0x not working correctly.

Should I use raw input?

Try it and see if you like it. Some users will still prefer leaving it off if they enjoy windows mouse acceleration (known as "Enhance Precision" in newer windows versions).

Why doesn't it work with Wacom tablets?

Wacom tablets use proprietary drivers, which don't conform to hardware standards. I may look at adding support for them later.

My latency is more than 1ms. Add a new fps limiter option to make it 1ms without being unlimited.

No. Latencies for 3-8ms are not perceivable by humans. If you believe you need 1ms then use unlimited and pay the extra power bill.
BloodCat2789
Finally, ★★★★★
ErunamoJAZZ
oh wow, I'll prove it in a while.

EDIT> Well, the first problem is that the selector down to only 0.5x.
Because I have a Genius mouse of 1200dpi, I play on the laptop to 480pdi (ie multiplying 0.4x), and 560dpi in the desktop (ie 0.46x).

With this new feature, I think it is important to allow more flexibility in choosing the multiplier. I wish I could choose at least 2 digits after the dot.

Good Job :D
PromiscuousDuck
It makes it almost impossible to use with tablets, like it makes the game fullscreen meaning you have to move more making it almost impossible to play.

Is there anyway around this?
trfs
Works great! Only issue I have is that it's impossible to log in or out while it's enabled, the cursor just flies around everywhere.

PromiscuousDuck wrote:

It makes it almost impossible to use with tablets, like it makes the game fullscreen meaning you have to move more making it almost impossible to play.

Is there anyway around this?
Increase active area in the driver I guess? The in-game sensitivity option works but the cursor isn't confined in the window properly, which is frustrating if you tap accidentally and it loses focus.
Topic Starter
peppy
The cursor IS confined to the window. If it isn't, report this as a bug, because it is incorrect. Tablet works fine at any sensitivity for me (osu!tablet).
trfs

peppy wrote:

The cursor IS confined to the window. If it isn't, report this as a bug, because it is incorrect. Tablet works fine at any sensitivity for me (osu!tablet).
I just checked and indeed it is! No idea why it wasn't for me earlier :).
Hiroshi
Thanks you ! :D I upgraded to 8.1 literally just yesterday and was feeling the mouse felt sort of off.
Spyrunite

peppy wrote:

The cursor IS confined to the window. If it isn't, report this as a bug, because it is incorrect. Tablet works fine at any sensitivity for me (osu!tablet).
I strongly disagree with this change. I play in windowed because I want to be able to go to other windows outside of my osu! window. I can't do that without switching to my mouse when there should be no reason for me not to be able to just tap it with my tablet.

I also got used to the area of the tablet with osu! in windowed, now that it treats osu! as the full area it is completely different. Do the huion drivers allow for you to change the area or is there just no way to change it back to the area I was used to as of now?

Edit: I messed around with changing the tablet speed a bit, and it kinda help definitely does not fix the problem. The area around the outside of the osu window isn't clickable because the cursor goes right back onto osu, completely skipping that area. It also just doesn't go up in fine enough increments for my liking. Really I'd rather just have a way to turn off Raw Imput. Not giving us the option to turn it off is just silly.
kiiin_old
Is there a way to deactivate it permanently? Everytime I try, it automatically turn itself on.
PromiscuousDuck

Spyrunite wrote:

peppy wrote:

The cursor IS confined to the window. If it isn't, report this as a bug, because it is incorrect. Tablet works fine at any sensitivity for me (osu!tablet).
I strongly disagree with this change. I play in windowed because I want to be able to go to other windows outside of my osu! window. I can't do that without switching to my mouse when there should be no reason for me not to be able to just tap it with my tablet.

I also got used to the area of the tablet with osu! in windowed, now that it treats osu! as the full area it is completely different. Do the huion drivers allow for you to change the area or is there just no way to change it back to the area I was used to as of now?

Edit: I messed around with changing the tablet speed a bit, and it kinda help definitely does not fix the problem. The area around the outside of the osu window isn't clickable because the cursor goes right back onto osu, completely skipping that area. It also just doesn't go up in fine enough increments for my liking. Really I'd rather just have a way to turn off Raw Imput. Not giving us the option to turn it off is just silly.
That is the exact same problem I have! I have the same type of tablet drivers also but I don't see how changing something in the drivers would help :/.
Also, why can't it be a choice on whether to have raw input on or not because it automatically makes it on whenever I do anything with my tablet on osu!.
PromiscuousDuck

trfs wrote:

Works great! Only issue I have is that it's impossible to log in or out while it's enabled, the cursor just flies around everywhere.

PromiscuousDuck wrote:

It makes it almost impossible to use with tablets, like it makes the game fullscreen meaning you have to move more making it almost impossible to play.

Is there anyway around this?
Increase active area in the driver I guess? The in-game sensitivity option works but the cursor isn't confined in the window properly, which is frustrating if you tap accidentally and it loses focus.
I already have it set to be full screen so I don't know how to change it otherwise :/
Zombii

Spyrunite wrote:

peppy wrote:

The cursor IS confined to the window. If it isn't, report this as a bug, because it is incorrect. Tablet works fine at any sensitivity for me (osu!tablet).
I strongly disagree with this change. I play in windowed because I want to be able to go to other windows outside of my osu! window. I can't do that without switching to my mouse when there should be no reason for me not to be able to just tap it with my tablet.

I also got used to the area of the tablet with osu! in windowed, now that it treats osu! as the full area it is completely different. Do the huion drivers allow for you to change the area or is there just no way to change it back to the area I was used to as of now?

Edit: I messed around with changing the tablet speed a bit, and it kinda help definitely does not fix the problem. The area around the outside of the osu window isn't clickable because the cursor goes right back onto osu, completely skipping that area. It also just doesn't go up in fine enough increments for my liking. Really I'd rather just have a way to turn off Raw Imput. Not giving us the option to turn it off is just silly.
That's strange, for me the tablet cursor is neither confined to the osu! window, and is using the entire screen as the active area, just as before. At least, at the main menu, when in a song I think it is confined to the window.
Spyrunite
That's exactly the way it was before the update, maybe you didn't install the update?

Edit: Ok, so I thought about this some more. Is the reason that the cursor is locked in the window because otherwise the raw imput wouldn't be happening? If that is the way it works then I understand why it is locked down the way it is, but the above problems still exist.
Zombii

Spyrunite wrote:

That's exactly the way it was before the update, maybe you didn't install the update?

Edit: Ok, so I thought about this some more. Is the reason that the cursor is locked in the window because otherwise the raw imput wouldn't be happening? If that is the way it works then I understand why it is locked down the way it is, but the above problems still exist.
No, I've definitely installed the update.
Topic Starter
peppy
I will likely add a way to disable it for supported devices in the next update. Please wait calmly until then.
Spyrunite

peppy wrote:

I will likely add a way to disable it for supported devices in the next update. Please wait calmly until then.
Would it be possible to make it so that the area acts the same as it was before (with the area of the tablet being to your full monitor) with 1.0 speed in game and get raw imput or is that not doable?
Saitolai
Guys can recommend me tablets that can run Osu?(PC VER )
Coz I'm not sure which one could :/
Zinkon
After this patch when not playing (when spectating) my fps is 60, which is lower than my refresh rate(75hz). This makes the game look choppy.

Edit: Woops, didn't read the title. Thought this was the latest patch thread.
Fendon
This is a excellent change in general, but especially for win 8.1 users, thanks a lot Peppy!
Nyaarlathotep
"use unlimited and pay the extra power bill."

I don't really think it makes that much of a difference.
scottyyy

Yamadash wrote:

"use unlimited and pay the extra power bill."

I don't really think it makes that much of a difference.
Unlimited fps = video card works harder = more power usage

Remember when Starcraft 2 first came out and the menu was unlimited fps? People's GPUs overheated and died.
TakuMii
Hey, just a question: Do you have any plans of supporting this on touch screens?
Moodkiller03

peppy wrote:

Why doesn't it work with Wacom tablets?

Wacom tablets use proprietary drivers, which don't conform to hardware standards. I may look at adding support for them later.
Please do :D - this would be awesome, would love to adjust the sensitivity to more than 1.0x through osu! :)
Rinku
So I was told Windows Aero causes a delay as well and believe it to be true, does this bypass that specific delay as well?
TakuMii

Moodkiller03 wrote:

Please do :D - this would be awesome, would love to adjust the sensitivity to more than 1.0x through osu! :)
Raw Input support for Wacom devices wouldn't make that possible... If you want to increase your tablet's sensitivity, change the size of your tablet area through the drivers.

-Rinku- wrote:

So I was told Windows Aero causes a delay as well and believe it to be true, does this bypass that specific delay as well?
Aero causes visual delay, so this won't get around that.
vape
Thank you based peppy. -All mouse users
DeltaBurnt
So I followed the guide to make my mouse input work in osu exactly how it did pre 8.1. But now I'm forced to use raw input to turn up the mouse sensitivity (something that worked perfectly fine before). Having the raw input option selected makes all my mouse movements feel very...dampened. When I turn up the mouse sensitivity with the raw input option it doesn't have the same effect it had before (1.3x used to be the perfect option for me, now I have to go to about 2.5x to get a similar effect), and it has more stutters.

Is there anyway to get the sensitivity to work as it did before the most recent update? I enjoy the raw input option, it's just annoying that I'm forced to use it because osu detects I'm 8.1 and thinks I have a problem I don't actually have.
Mathsma

DeltaBurnt wrote:

So I followed the guide to make my mouse input work in osu exactly how it did pre 8.1. But now I'm forced to use raw input to turn up the mouse sensitivity (something that worked perfectly fine before). Having the raw input option selected makes all my mouse movements feel very...dampened. When I turn up the mouse sensitivity with the raw input option it doesn't have the same effect it had before (1.3x used to be the perfect option for me, now I have to go to about 2.5x to get a similar effect), and it has more stutters.

Is there anyway to get the sensitivity to work as it did before the most recent update? I enjoy the raw input option, it's just annoying that I'm forced to use it because osu detects I'm 8.1 and thinks I have a problem I don't actually have.
Maybe you have you windows mouse settings changed from their defaults (6/11 mouse speed in pointer options). Raw input bypasses windows mouse settings and the game gets it directly from the hardware.
DeltaBurnt

Mathsma wrote:

Maybe you have you windows mouse settings changed from their defaults (6/11 mouse speed in pointer options). Raw input bypasses windows mouse settings and the game gets it directly from the hardware.
That seems to explain why raw input feels less sensitive, but it doesn't seem to fix the problem. I have to turn up the sensitivity past 2.0 to get any real effect, and it definitely feels less smooth (maybe because Windows isn't smoothing it I guess). I would definitely love an option to turn off the 8.1 check, mostly because it's very difficult to switch from one sensitivity to another after years of playing.
Topic Starter
peppy
Sorry but I'm not removing the win8.1 check. You can try adjusting your windows sensitivity and sticking it on 1.0x in osu! if you'd like to use the windows setting.
Oinari-sama

Yamadash wrote:

"use unlimited and pay the extra power bill."

I don't really think it makes that much of a difference.
It can make a huge difference depending on your setup.

I ran some tests when I built this PC and from what I've measured at the wall socket, unlimited (gameplay) uses 60% more power than 120fps capped. We're talking about a measly single HD6870 here, that figure is guaranteed to change if you have more "beastly" setup.

The result is up for interpretation depending on your view on sustainability issues though...
RemiFlan

peppy wrote:

Sorry but I'm not removing the win8.1 check. You can try adjusting your windows sensitivity and sticking it on 1.0x in osu! if you'd like to use the windows setting.

Kind of sucks, because I've had a harder time playing 1.2x with raw input than 1.2x without it for some reason. Just feels slower to me.

I have win8.1 so I'm forced raw input with 1.2x. Adjusting my sensitivity through control panel doesn't help much either =/
DeltaBurnt

peppy wrote:

Sorry but I'm not removing the win8.1 check. You can try adjusting your windows sensitivity and sticking it on 1.0x in osu! if you'd like to use the windows setting.
Could you at least let us change the sensitivity through the config file without it automatically turning on raw input? I realize the check will stop a lot of people on 8.1 from whining about mouse issues, but this really hurts how I (and other people) play in a very big way.
JOELwindows7
No problem. this is for Not-Supporting Mouse Operating System, Thought that the other's that not support mouse will can't move mouse correctly. :D

But somehow, I don't really like it. or maybe because need some adaptation

Known Windows 8.1 had an issues with a Mouse, Still a fortunate I was unable to raise up from 8 Pro :!:
Topic Starter
peppy

RemiFlan wrote:

peppy wrote:

Sorry but I'm not removing the win8.1 check. You can try adjusting your windows sensitivity and sticking it on 1.0x in osu! if you'd like to use the windows setting.

Kind of sucks, because I've had a harder time playing 1.2x with raw input than 1.2x without it for some reason. Just feels slower to me.

I have win8.1 so I'm forced raw input with 1.2x. Adjusting my sensitivity through control panel doesn't help much either =/
If you adjust it in control panel, you HAVE TO USE 1.0x. else it will not be applied to osu! anymore.

Yamadash wrote:

"use unlimited and pay the extra power bill."
I don't really think it makes that much of a difference.
Looking at CPU alone:

Idle: 12w
osu! 60fps: 13.5w
osu! unlimited: 38w

Now consider the GPU draws 2-10x as much as the cpu. Add it together and work out the cost savings in your local currency (look up rate of electricity per kWh). I guarantee it will be over a dollar a day for heavy users.
JoyceSn
No. Latencies for 3-8ms are not perceivable by humans. If you believe you need 1ms then use unlimited and pay the extra power bill.

it can still make a difference on High latency IPS monitors, some monitors of those are 20ish ms latency, chose 26ms or 20, it can make the difference in making it feel natural.
RaikireHiuduo
Unrelated question:
Is "osu!mania layout" replaced by "Raw Input" toggle temporary or permanently (much like the Combo Fire taken by Storyboard toggle)?

Can somebody delete my bug report? :?
SanicHegehog
Does this fix mouse acceleration from all sources? Sensors such as the Avago 9800 are known to have around (plus or minus)5% acceleration - a mouse with this sensor without acceleration has yet to be seen. As far as I know, this raw input thing shouldn't be able to fix this, but some people that I am in contact with feel as if acceleration has been completely fixed for them. They use the g500, which is known to have some acceleration.
Topic Starter
peppy
i use a g500 and no it does not have any acceleration at a secnsor level.
SanicHegehog

peppy wrote:

i use a g500 and no it does not have any acceleration at a secnsor level.
Strange.

Do you have any tests with which to back this up with? I'm asking for peace of mind; I've only ever heard of the mouse having slight acceleration before.
Topic Starter
peppy
I just tested on my mouse pad using raw input around 20 times with different velocity movements and could not produce any kind of acceleration effects.
bRaNdOn_WaPo

peppy wrote:

Raw input allows osu! to read mouse/tablet values directly from the hardware, without any post-processing. As a result, it can bypas windows bugs and acceleration algorithms. It can also allow for tablet sensitivity adjustment without setting a custom tablet area mapping at driver-level.

Why did you even bother adding this? Input was fine already.

It fixes an issue with Windows 8.1 where mouse sensitivities other than 1.0x not working correctly.

Should I use raw input?

Try it and see if you like it. Some users will still prefer leaving it off if they enjoy windows mouse acceleration (known as "Enhance Precision" in newer windows versions).

Why doesn't it work with Wacom tablets?

Wacom tablets use proprietary drivers, which don't conform to hardware standards. I may look at adding support for them later.

My latency is more than 1ms. Add a new fps limiter option to make it 1ms without being unlimited.

No. Latencies for 3-8ms are not perceivable by humans. If you believe you need 1ms then use unlimited and pay the extra power bill.
marshallracer
I don't know, I'm somewhat happy about Raw Input.
Despite fixing a bug with my tablet where I could only access an area on my screen the size of the osu! window (1024x768 from top left with 1280x1024 as desktop resolution, so if the window was in the middle about 1/4 or so of it weren't accessible), movement now feels more direct and the cursor isn't drifting away anymore.

Tablet is a Slimline Design Tablet (TB-5300) used under Windows 7.
SanicHegehog

peppy wrote:

I just tested on my mouse pad using raw input around 20 times with different velocity movements and could not produce any kind of acceleration effects.
Do you experience acceleration outside of osu?

If possible, could you explain how acceleration is removed with raw input enabled? I know it's supposed to allow reading mouse values directly from the hardware, but as the sensor itself is a piece of hardware, I'm rather confused as to how acceleration is ignored, as small as it may be on certain mice.
opnmind
Well I don't know about w8.1 (still using XP in my toaster) but it felt really strange, more inaccurate, I used to use a mouse sensitivity of 4.0, I tried adjusting it but it still felt kinda off, so I deactivate the 'enhance pointer precision' on the windows control panel, and activate the Raw Input in the game, and voila, just as it was... It gave me quite a headache though...
opnmind

opnmind wrote:

Well I don't know about w8.1 (still using XP in my toaster) but it felt really strange, more inaccurate, I used to use a mouse sensitivity of 4.0, I tried adjusting it but it still felt kinda off, so I deactivate the 'enhance pointer precision' on the windows control panel, and activate the Raw Input in the game, and voila, just as it was... It gave me quite a headache though...
I take that back...
marshallracer

marshallracer wrote:

I don't know, I'm somewhat happy about Raw Input.
Despite fixing a bug with my tablet where I could only access an area on my screen the size of the osu! window (1024x768 from top left with 1280x1024 as desktop resolution, so if the window was in the middle about 1/4 or so of it weren't accessible), movement now feels more direct and the cursor isn't drifting away anymore.

Tablet is a Slimline Design Tablet (TB-5300) used under Windows 7.
nvm, bug is still there, I should report it I can deal with it
still the movement itself has improved
SanicHegehog

SanicHegehog wrote:

peppy wrote:

I just tested on my mouse pad using raw input around 20 times with different velocity movements and could not produce any kind of acceleration effects.
Do you experience acceleration outside of osu?

If possible, could you explain how acceleration is removed with raw input enabled? I know it's supposed to allow reading mouse values directly from the hardware, but as the sensor itself is a piece of hardware, I'm rather confused as to how acceleration is ignored, as small as it may be on certain mice.
TakuMii
To follow up with SanicHegehog's question: What DPI do you use? Mouse acceleration becomes more and more difficult to detect the higher it is.
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