This thread is intended to be a sister thread to this discussion on github, for those that want to give feedback but don't exist on github.

---

Hello players of osu!

Please leave any feedback you have here, with a focus on gameplay mechanics:

For osu! ruleset

1. How does slider head leniency feel with the new changes? (discussion)
2. How does slider scoring feel? Unlike in classic ScoreV2, slider tails don't give a final judgement based on the number of ticks hit. Instead, the slider's head gives the main judgement based on its own hit window. (discussion)
3. How does the current implementation of capped spinner bonus feel?
4. How does HP drain feel? We reverted to more lenient "lazer" style drain this release, because "stable" style drain felt too harsh.
5. How does scoring feel? It's now using a modified ScoreV2 which places less penalty on misses.
6. In lazer you can get an S without full comboing. We are intending to better display "FC" on the results / leaderboards, but how does this feel? (note: also applies to taiko)

For osu!taiko, osu!mania, osu!catch rulesets

1. We want more feedback in general on anything which feels sub-par from a gameplay experience.

Things we are less focused on

1. UI (song select, main menu, other)
   
   1. We know there's a lot that can be improved but we already have enough feedback on this, and are looking to lock in gameplay mechanics.
2. Mod multipliers (will be tweaked later)
3. PP
   
   1. More to come on this in the next release, not this one 😉
4. Classic mods
   
   1. We know there's some issues with classic mod, but we do not see this as a priority. We can reset scores set with classic mod in the future if required.

I think that scoring slider head accuracy is still jarring when coming from stable. I'm still undecided on whether or not I think its a good thing in the long run, but I can definitely say there are multiple moments in pretty much every score I set where I get a 100 that feels like it should've been a 300. Even though I know I'm tapping early and am being judged fairly, It still feels discouraging and makes me want to just go back to stable because its what I'm used to.

Since the implementation of leniency with accuracy in mania (you only need to get greats/perfects to get 100% acc) I feel like the current cut offs should be swapped with the Osu catch ones. 95% for an S feels too easy to achieve and I think 98% feels more fitting.

Tbh I want S ranks to mean FC cuz "S" is clearly special and distinguished from A-D, but if whether the score is FC or not will be shown in other way my mind might be changed

(editing this to better suit the main focus of feedback, sorry peppy <3)

1.9k Standard player, here's my input:

Slider head leniency feels great with the new changes, a lot of stuff that was basically impossible to hit reliably in stable is doable now (for example, some sections in Arphimigon's map of 'All I Wanna Do Is Touch your Power Points' are basically impossible to reliably do in stable because of buzz slider jumps at weird angles, but feel way better because of the slider leniency changes.)

No big complaints with the slider scoring. Feels okay, but may be difficult to get used to coming from stable.

No complaints with spinner caps.

The new HP drain feels too lenient, especially for streams; it's REALLY easy to pass higher BPM streams by basically just mashing.

New scoring feels pretty intuitive, I like the idea that later misses are treated less harshly than earlier ones.

peppy wrote:

This thread is intended to be a sister thread to this discussion on github, for those that want to give feedback but don't exist on github.

---

Hello players of osu!

Please leave any feedback you have here, with a focus on gameplay mechanics:

For osu! ruleset

1. How does slider head leniency feel with the new changes? (discussion)
2. How does slider scoring feel? Unlike in classic ScoreV2, slider tails don't give a final judgement based on the number of ticks hit. Instead, the slider's head gives the main judgement based on its own hit window. (discussion)
3. How does the current implementation of capped spinner bonus feel?
4. How does HP drain feel? We reverted to more lenient "lazer" style drain this release, because "stable" style drain felt too harsh.
5. How does scoring feel? It's now using a modified ScoreV2 which places less penalty on misses.
6. In lazer you can get an S without full comboing. We are intending to better display "FC" on the results / leaderboards, but how does this feel? (note: also applies to taiko)

For osu!taiko, osu!mania, osu!catch rulesets

1. We want more feedback in general on anything which feels sub-par from a gameplay experience.

Things we are less focused on

1. UI (song select, main menu, other)
   
   1. We know there's a lot that can be improved but we already have enough feedback on this, and are looking to lock in gameplay mechanics.
2. Mod multipliers (will be tweaked later)
3. PP
   
   1. More to come on this in the next release, not this one 😉
4. Classic mods
   
   1. We know there's some issues with classic mod, but we do not see this as a priority. We can reset scores set with classic mod in the future if required.

Ima throw this out there

i don't understand why synesthesia, a mod simply changing colors to that of beats instead of combo should give lower overall scoring

It does not realistically provide in-game advantages, and worse yet, it discourages its use, a pretty bad thing in my opinion

I am sure someone can prove me wrong or go into more detail than I can on either side

I don't see this realistically giving advantages compared to normal, at least not any more than
- skins like gn that color the circle based on the combo number
- skins such as Rustbell which do the same but also have the circle completely disappear without any animation, a side effect of skinv2
- single combo colored skins


quite frankly, I don't see how synesthesia can provide any more of an advantage compared to these 3 above, quite frankly, I'd like to see a native implementation of these 3 above things in a skinning context, perhaps synthesis is a test case, and will later become a skinnable thing, what the hell do I know?


I say revert synesthesia scoring to its original, it might be neat.

Please focus on the areas of feedback I asked for.

Here's an example of the replies in this thread which haven't been useful:

- We don't need feedback on mobile
- We don't need feedback on touch / tablet import
- We don't need feedback on mod multipliers

For mania; timing based note colouring will mess with note overlays (such as the ones in the Argon skin). Notably, either the overlay cannot be seen at all, or will be coloured differently.

Beat mapping has had a very big change all of which has been good (in my opinion) how ever it’s super difficult to select audio files to
Map from an IPhone and I don’t know if there’s a way for you guys to sort of simplify this procces if not but if you guys can it be really awesome - edit I just saw y’all don’t want mobile feed back uh GG

I think using the "S" score as a full combo indicator is better than just the "FC" icon. It is easier to perceive by eye. In osu!stable, I was always a little annoyed by situations when I saw the letter "S" on one of the maps I downloaded, but it did not let me know if I got a full combo on it and whether it made sense for me to replay it for a larger number of pp. The "S" sign just won't make sense if there is an "FC" icon. It will be much more pleasant to see such a rating system, where "A" is just an assessment for a very good game, and "S" is already something special, for which they give much more pp than for "A". In general, S should be fc!

The current slider head leniency is fine but I have a problem with slider acc
I'm sorry if this is not related or if ppl have already mentioned it but seeing how Lazer release date is coming, I see the need to bring up this topic
Also sorry if this sounds conservative


I think slider head accuracy should be talked about more in term of mapping
Note : I didn't came from Charles445 era of mapping + I'm not good at mapping/modding + I assume that using classic mod will have score/pp penalties

Here are 4 videos that have been made by Pishifat and Charles445 on a topic of slider head acc. I recommend you watch all of them as I can't convey the message as well as you watch these video yourself.


In 2017, Pishifat has made a video going to detail how slider acc will affect player's experience. Here's summary.

1. Slider leniency help players notice a change in bpm/Beatsnap and not be punished by it as mapper uses sliders
2. Players are taught to sometimes hit sliders early not to break combo Fixed in lazer
3. Most maps utilized slider leniency by putting a slider further away to emphasize or some people may use slider to recover from mouse drift/pen slip, removing it will make those map unplayable/less enjoyable for some player

3rd point is pretty important looking at ranking section currently

In 2020, Charles445 has made 3 videos osu! - Slider Accuracy | osu! - Fake Feeling | osu! - Player Conditioning

The 2nd video is the most important.
Charles445 illustrate the "fake feeling" from sliders and circle. It shows that circle have more impact just bc accuracy matters and mappers utilized it very well even the 10 year old map. Today those techniques are still used as maps are getting more complex.
If slider leniency is removed such concept will be removed too.

Here are the maps mentioned in the vid
beatmapsets/434334#osu/935924
beatmapsets/114488#osu/319661
beatmapsets/873829#osu/1826476
beatmapsets/412938#osu/895643


Now if you have watched all the videos. Here's the question
Should players be punished for not wanting a slider head accuracy and use Classic mod to play the map as mappers intended?

I think instead of casual players be punished for not wanting a slider head accuracy, shouldn't those who willing to play with it be rewarded and gives no penalties for normal players?

It would be better if slider head accuracy was an optional mod for ppl who really want to get good plus this would make slider head acc mod a Difficulty increase mod and gives a sense of challenge as said by Charles on first vid (conclusion section)


TLDR:Slider acc breaks maps, pls make slider acc a mod instead of making ppl to play classic mod

EDIT : I don't hate slider acc, I just don't agree with it becoming a new no mod

It finally feels like I can get good scores even if I do miss once or twice. The score of someone who misses 10 times in the beginning is proparly punished, causing that score to be way worse than someone who misses 3 times in equal intervals across the whole map and that's what makes scoring way more satisfying, fair and rewarding to actual good players. Scoring being heavily focused around accuracy is amazing.

In the old version it felt like getting a score around 700,000 - 800,000 was impossible - it was always either 500,000 or 950,000. And also rising from below the trenches of 200,000 pts was impossible on maps of harder difficulty. Now the score distribution is more even and I LOVE IT.

As for slider changes: Thank god (peppy). The fact that I can now get not only an early 50 on a slider and still FC but also a late 50 with the combo still holding is just life changing when trying to fc a map.

As a player who started playing like 9 years ago I can say this: The old implementation of sliders was so complex and unintuitive that I honestly still don't fully understand how they work, even after >800hrs of playtime. The lazer implementation, on the other hand, is so intuitive that you're able to grasp it instantly, ESPECIALLY with the new changes. They are just forgiving enough not to feel clunky and manage to keep the intuitive nature of that implementation.

I hope pp still stays more FC focused as it's been like this forever and, in my opinion, it's very important to make the clear distinction between good leaderboard scores and good pp scores and so far I think lazer does a good job of that.

The only noticeable difference in an inconvinient way in lazer is in ar10+ which feels wacky for some reason, it feels like its skipping frames to be able to keep up, especially on dt, but besides this, the client is really good, sv3 is a fair and better scoring system in my opinion, and the overall performace feels very consystent.

For osu!taiko:

on stable there is the option to make notes instafade on hit by disabling the HUD using shift-tab, this is my prefered way of playing taiko but there is no way to do this on lazer at the moment. This is the only thing holding me back from playing permanently on lazer, the rest of the client works really well.

osu!:
Wow, it was like impossible to recover hp on the previous drain style. But I still feel like lazer style makes it a little bit too easy to recover.

About slider head leniency, it almost feels like I'm just playing with classic mod on lol. You need to press VERY early to get a judgement (was playing on CS 8), so in my opinion it needs less leniency.
The late hits feel fine though.


taiko:
Can we have the note receptor in the exact same spot as stable? Also what pixel infinity said above.


ctb:
About the "FC" display in the results, ctb needs this too because its arguably the mode where fc matters the most.

On another note, gameplay still feels off, might be because my game is not running as smoothly as stable does (~250 fps 1.5ms lazer Vs. 280 fps 0.3ms stable) but the movement feels choppy, especially when moving without dash.
Or actually it might be that lazer catcher is faster than stable catcher. I'm feeling like pressing the movement keys for the same amount of time makes lazer catcher move farther.

huh

Thanks for asking. I've wondered for a long time how stable and lazer osu!taiko scores will be comparable as the playfield feels smaller to me as in you see less notes. Slider velocity also feels faster and in result I can't really achieve similiar scores in faster BPM beatmaps compared to stable. Maybe that's partly related to skinning and resolution rather than the gameplay but I'm unsure. The note receptor @Doxxz mentioned above probably plays some part in that.


I've heard that the Hidden mod may also be harder to read in lazer than stable but I don't usually mess with mods myself. Getting an S without full comboing definitely feels easier, making getting A and S ranks feel less special. I feel like it might work better for standard than taiko but then again I don't really play other game modes. Generally I've been satisfied but it did take me a while to get accustomed to lazer again, for an update they can feel like different games.

Increasing HP leniency is a bad change in my opinion as passes mean absolutely nothing.

Overall scoring feels a little bit “too generous” making the distinction between good plays hard as the score difference between them is too low.

Otherwise, everything else just feels perfect, getting good acc now means that not only I clicked the circles accurately but also the slider which is nice.

I'd like to see the function of changing the interface for selecting maps with different skins, because default lazer version is terrifying and uncomfortable.

wI really like the changes.

The sliders are good, and so are the spinners, in my novice opinion.

However, I find that failure no longer happens on Osu! and I think that's a shame.

I find that the HP drain is non-existent in this version, I don't find any difficulty around life in Lazer, which takes a lot of tension out of the game, so for my part I prefer the hp drain from before, or at least a less flexible version.


The fact that S doesn't necessarily correspond to a FC seems normal to me. I've always seen these two concepts as different. But as some people have already said, it should be emphasised more, and why not as an index or exponent of the score received...

I hope my opinion will be useful, it's the first one I've posted and I want to help Osu!Lazer, which I think is fantastic.


EDIT ON 03/01/2024 I'm starting to get stuttering... I can't get them to work x)

I feel like the scoring in general is rather disconnected since scoring 400k points can still be shown as an "s rank" in spite of the fact that it is under half of the total possible achievable score. It feels much less satisfying getting an S rank when you didn't really try too hard for it or beat the map with a "good" score. It also feels disconnected since in the final scoring screen with the wheel that has all the ranks, the rank D takes up well over half of the wheel yet I usually don't even get c ranks anymore.

Been playing std for almost 3 years (+ std tournaments for a year) and recently picked up mania. I haven't played the new update extensively but here's my input:

Slider head leniency feels really nice. Coming from ScoreV2 for tournaments, these changes feel most fair and accurate with how I hit each slider.

For slider scoring (if I'm understanding correctly), having no judgement on the tails suits the newer mapping styles really well (especially tech) and I think helps to compensate for the new difficulty of slider accuracy. I don't think it aids the most accurate possible score but with the other changes it'll keep more slider-heavy/techy maps fun to play.

I like the capped spinner bonus, I think it prevents abuse of weird spinning techniques. But I'm not a very fast spinner so I don't have much of an opinion here.

It doesn't feel worth changing the HP drain, mappers can change it per map and making all of it lenient might just force them to always up the HP drain. It's not a flawed mechanic to have harsher HP drain but it might be worth changing it's difficulty weighting instead.

New scoring feels fantastic. From the few maps I played, it felt like it was reflecting my play much more than scorev2 does. Missing a few notes and getting 200k-300k always hurt and that's completely relieved now.

For the S vs FC issue, I think a silver S could be FC and gold S be high accuracy play (or the other way around). I never understood why a silver S was for HD plays and not any other mods so that could be a better new use for it. It also makes it easier to find if you're looking to turn a high acc play into an FC.


Thank you for all your hard work on lazer! I've been playing on and off for a while and am looking forward to switching over permanently.

After playtesting a few maps with the new sliders here are my thoughts.
The first map I tried was Hanzer's Miss You and I felt the lack of leniency immediately in the intro, getting a lot more 100s than before. The buzz sliders and sliderstreams definetly felt very different. Instead of trying to hit them a bit early to compensate for the previous hit-window cutoff they now just feel like circles. For the average player that probably means they're easier to hit but I think that a lot of the texture and feeling of hitting a sliderstream is gone now.

On maps like Lan Wings' Yoiyami Hanabi I personally found myself dropping more sliderends than before due to not being allowed to buffer my input on the next sliderhead, feels a bit more frustrating than before and not as impactful movement wise.
On the topic of dropping sliderends, I think that getting a 100 there was a much better indicator than just the animation of the followcircle expanding.

I've definetly felt the most cheated on maps with variable timing (I tried Roze and Four Seasons). Especially when the song gets more mellow and the rhythm more expressive it's super counterintuitive to be super precise when previously you would just vibe with the music. Especially the outro of Four Seasons, it feels terrible now because of the unpredictable tempo changes.

I had similar problems on Neuronecia where the timing was no issue but the complex rhythms of the song and the SV switching patterns definetly didn't help. Also, the map relies on 1/4 sliders to highlight the contrast between the held synth and sharp drums, which is now lessened due to sliders playing more like circles.

Lastly, I tried one of my own maps which was specifically designed around abusing slider leniency and god is it frustrating now. My accuracy went down from on average 97% to mid 93%. I don't want players to think that the map plays like garbage when it was designed around the lack of slider accuracy. But as of now there's no way for me as the mapper to control that.

My last concern doesn't really apply to myself, but to new players. We know that they tend to have a lot of trouble with figuring out how sliders work and I think that not having to worry about accuracy is like the one saving grace for them. But I might just be speculating here.

bring back the classic score multiplier my friends and I switched to lazer for the sake of comfort and a new interface and have always played only with the classics without it it is impossible to play with terrible sliders and gameplay,let's not waste time as the latest updates are making the standard osu mode worse and worse

i really like the key overlay system in ctb on lazer it makes it more enhanced graphic wise and it looks better than overlay in stable in a way

HP feels way too lenient now. Even using difficulty adjust to force HP 10 doesn't feel as difficult as last release HP 6.

Edit: playing some more now, HP definitely feels weird. Some maps HP 10 feels easier than last update HP 6, some maps HP 7 feels like the bar will drain to 0 during non-drain sections and you'll miss once and fail.

CTB player here, I personally like Lazer and its new UI customization (skin). I've seen great improvements in lag spikes during map loading and gameplay over the past year and enjoy playing on the new client for unranked scores. Overall It does feels like ctb performances are more fluid on lazer. There is one thing, however, that hold me back from wanting to play ranked scores on lazer.

In a 2022 update, changes were made to the in-game cursor for all gamemodes to make the interface more accessible. Since this update, the cursor is visible outside the playfield as soon as it is moved or pressed (left-click). As a player who dashes with the mouse (left-click), my mouse would end up moving the cursor outside the gamefield during play, causing the cursor to be visible for a brief moment while making sounds several times. In the current stable version, the cursor remains hidden as long as it is not moved too fast / far and does not make sound. Seeing the cursor flash rapidly during the map and hearing the sounds can sometimes be distracting, and I sometimes mistake the cursor for a fruit, losing my combo.

That issue was reported in 2022 with the mania gamemode as example and later there was mention of it affecting others gamemode on github but the issue seems relatively inactive by now, and since most CTB players don't play with the mouse (I have a rather unusual keybind), most stable users probably won't be bothered by it or even realise the change.

11k Osu Standard player, Average Mania and Taiko player, I have played stable for 4 years and have switched to Lazer this week

I have been hesitant to join lazer because of the differences you listed above, but now that I have had time to play it and get a feel for the new ruleset these are my thoughts:

1. HP Drain feels more natural when hp is high or low, instead of a map feeling unfair with "hp gain" sections. I agree that having a more lenient system has helped the experience.
2. Capping the spinner bonus feels more strange, however with longer maps that have an ending spinner at the end it makes more sense than the previous system imo. Some spinners in maps are meant to be spun quickly for leaderboard spots, while others are merely for a break or to reflect on what you accomplished. I feel finding this mediacy compliments both sides.
3. The reduced penalty on misses is a great change especially for reverse chokes or random misses from the player. It keeps the tension high during a map instead of ruining all engagement and excitement for submitting a play.

I do enjoy being able to get an S without the need for a full combo, however determining an FC takes some digging. I propose that using a "+" at the end of a score is a good way to show this.

1. For example, a 99.3% 2x miss shows as an "S"
2. However, a 98.4% FC shows as an "S+"

This does not just apply to S, for example: A+, B+, potentially SS+ or SS depending on further thinking.

Overall the gameplay experience feels refined especially for stable veterans, however the new grade changes can be confusing. I believe that your team has hit the mark in most aspects and as a dedicated osu player I am greatly enjoying these new changes.

I really like the fact that you can actually get an S rank without an FC - e.g. 99.42% 1x miss isn't an A rank anymore.

Gameplay wise everything else seems to work fine as a 100k standard player.

Maybe something should be done about the intial rendering of a map (load for longer?). What I mean is that on the initial load the first circles tend to lag and therefore it is necessary to restart the map because landing the first circles is sometimes impossible. Stable does not have this problem.

I haven't played much, but I here's my opinions so far:
-I don't really like that when disabling in game interface both score meter and key overlay also disappear, I usually like to have them on without showing accuracy, combo and hp...
-Post map UI is kind of weird and underwhelming, I feel like the old one is much more intuitive and feels better to look at;
-Sliders feel better overall, specially with them fading as the hit circle goes. However, the new slider scoring is not something I really appreciate;
-Also, I think there should be an option to use the tablet area settings from its own driver.

Apart from this, I think Lazer is actually pretty solid, I would consider playing on it if these things were changed. Note that some things might already have an option to be like that and I might just have not noticed them in the configs.

please no S rank change, keep it like in stable please. I shouldn't get an S rank on a 95% with misses or on any score with misses. They're supposed to be special. I already had to make collections for 'non-FC S' to find the scores I need to fix, but at least I didn't have to do that for A ranks, since I could sort by rank achieved. If you switch to this system I would have to add all of these currently 95+ A rank maps (1,753 according to o!alt, they are not hard to get) to a collection manually also. Adding an "FC" indicator to an S score is also just redundant, because if you want a clear indicator, you could just change it so that sliderbreak scores give you an A.

Also I still don't agree with slider acc being added after a decade, I think we should keep the basics the same and not have this new/classic split at all, but I guess it's too late on that one.

No real personal opinion on HP, if you tweak it to the point where both pass players still find passes meaningful and new players find it fair, I think you're good.

edit after reading -Enigma-'s comment: While I'm old fashioned and will probably always prefer old way, if you did it like their suggestion and added a new ranking, I could probably adjust to that as long as there is a ranking below a perfect score that requires no misses. So if for some reason you need to do this change, please do it that way? The current way pretty much ruins the way I play the game. I don't care much about if leaderboard says I have an FC, I just like my profile stats and knowing when a map is "done". As long as I can know on my profile and through rank achieved which maps are "done", I'm okay with gaining/losing grades even if the changes in numbers are significant.

Assuming you add an entirely new ranking for an imperfect FC, somewhere around 98% is what I would consider "good score", so a 98 for S I think would reward those scores. 97% is too lenient for me personally but I think that would also be fair. I don't think lower than 97 keeps S ranks special.

(and sorry for so many edits, i have a bit of adhd)

osu!standard
Before this update, it felt like some maps with buzz sliders and short sliders were impossible to keep combo, but this update makes it function like stable.

Honestly, I think a lot of people might dislike the way sliders are scored in lazer, but it's a needed change.
As for the capped spinner bonus it seems fine with the way scoring works in lazer.

The HP drain actually is too forgiving compared to stable. I was playing a couple hours ago so I think HP isn't actually as lenient as before this update. I'll need to play more to test that.

Lazer scoring makes it easier to tell how much more of the map I need to fc. Some of the scores from some months up to a year are still under a different lazer scoring so its harder to get the same scores. I like seeing more S rank scores but as others have said it's harder to tell if you've FC'd a map or not.

Now for UI(?) requests for multiplayer.
Its hard to know if people are choosing a map simply because there's nothing that says "choosing a map" or a lobby chat. You'll have to exit out of map select to read lobby chat again.
Also wondering if the lobby size will be unlimited seeing as how we can't limit the lobby size right now.

There's also a bug(?) where you can't skip the beatmap intro so I always have it to skip.

Please allow multiple devices to login the same osu account, when I want to play lazer on my iPad it logs out my PC and it is so annoying

I really like Lazer. When I started a month or two ago, I first started with Lazer, and was sad when I switched to Stable to be able to get PP gains. Now I've switched back to Lazer, and while I have been enjoying the improved song selection and UI, as well as better feel while playing, there have been some issues that feel pretty glaring to me.

The tablet settings are confusing, and I'm not sure why they exist. All they do is override what you have already set up in your tablet driver software that you use. It makes it so much more difficult to use a tablet. For some reason in order to use my tablet how I've already set it up using OpenTabletDriver, I have to disable both the Tablet input and the High Precision Mouse input. This took way too long to figure out.

Secondly, there isn't a way to find your universal offset. Being off by 40+ms on every single beatmap is... well, unplayable. Even for new players. The fact that there is no good way to find out what your universal offset is, is honestly unacceptable. The biggest priority in my opinion right now should be getting the Offset Wizard functional in Lazer. Currently, the best way I have found to get what my local offset is, is to play the Offset Wizard beatmap, then afterwards adjust the local offset for that beatmap, then apply that number to my universal offset.

The last thing, which is annoying but not really a huge issue, is that you should be able to type in numbers for the difficulty sliders in the song selection. Having to slide it makes it really hard to get to the specific number you want, so what I've been doing is just making the slider range all inclusive, and typing "star>=x star<y" which defeats the purpose of the sliders and is unintuitive.

I think that if these first two aspects were improved (and the third to a lesser extent), then Lazer would be quite the upgrade to Stable.

More casual player here:

HP drain feels better for maps that had previously stupid punishing HP drain values. Failing seems still possible but HP was always a frustrating mechanic in my opinion, so making it less punishing is good. I think for casual players it's more fun to be able to pass a map with a garbage score than fail over and over because of some HP cutoff or some specifically hard section because of HP drain. It feels more akin to other rhythm games now in terms of how HP tends to work.

Slider accuracy feels weird especially for certain types of fast sliders, but being able to hit it feels the same as stable, which is good enough for me. I do notice my accuracy being generally lower but acceptable.

Scoring without mods (and classic converted scores) are a little confusing to understand especially in the PP they might award. I think higher scores should directly correlate with higher hypothetical pp awarded which doesn't seem to be true yet? Scores are definitely higher than expected but I think it's just a matter of getting used to combo being less valuable, though I do think if FCs are still going to award the most PP then scoring should reflect that too.

Spinners feel fine with the maximum award. I think it adds clarity to the game to be honest.

Thanks for the update!

Sliders still feels a little choppy, i think is a visual problem with staple skins and the fade in of the sliderball follow circle should be double in speed or just appear instantly. The argon skin pro should have the slider track override in black and the white circle around the hitcircle makes it look like bigger than they should, a fix can be the only one border in white like the standard osu skin. I really have doubts about accuracy on slider heads because after all this years is part of the game identity but maybe im only bad, i feel top players should talk about this change.


About the input delay is great, feels a lot better thand standard

About the map editor olibomby is literally saving mapping: i love the fact now you can draw sliders

I have long felt that lazer hp drain is too lenient while stable is too harsh. When in combination with the lack of notelock (or is notelock just done differently? not entirely sure to be honest), it is far too easy to pass stream maps as long as you can aim them semi-accurately and mash, and it doesn't feel rewarding to get passes on maps like these as it would in stable. On stable, it seems like very often (and especially with HR on since it increases HP) the HP drain brings your hp down a lot during less difficult sections of a map (due to less note density) which makes it very stressful when entering the harder parts of maps. Somewhere in the middle where stream maps don't feel like free passes and less note-dense maps don't give me a heart attack because it feels like im about to fail even without any misses would be great. Maybe something like a lowered rate of HP drain if you have at least a certain amount of combo and then it kicks back up when you miss? IDK I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to the "balance" of HP drain, especially since it doesn't matter in terms of farming balance or tournament play.

Can you add the option to move the cursor sensitivity of mouse via the keyboard, I am capable of changing the other similar options using the keyboard but it seems to not be possible on that single slider (Idk if I'm the only one having trouble with this).

Speaking about osu!std only

I believe changes that increase slider leniency are good in general since this allows to implement slider accuracy without serious consequences in terms of playability of certain maps. This one isn't an exception, although losing that distinctive feeling of short sliders compared to usual circles due to hit window cutoff is a bit sad.

Slider scoring feels okay I guess. I mean it seems right when judgement is given based only on sliderhead hit window since osu is a rhythm game above everything else. Score and accuracy penalty is pretty fair as well.
But for all the saints sake, please implement some sort of missed sliderend indication ;_;
Playing a beatmap for SS and then noticing your acc isn't perfect during a break is pretty damn frustrating. There's no possibility to know where exactly you screwed up without watching replay or somehow noticing corresponding followcircle animation. It'd make things so much easier!

Also don't see any problems with the current spinner bonus cap. High enough to make a difference in leaderboards. Low enough to not cause mod mess in lbs of 30 sec 1 star maps. Low enough for score still feeling corresponding to player's performance in case said player spins very fast. Not high enough to make spin battles at the end of a tourney map exciting enough, but that's the price I guess.

Can't say anything about HP drain since I don't play for passes. But in general I think that a harsher hp drain system is better than a more lenient one. Especially when we have notelock being drastically reduced.

Scoring also feels better and more fair than v2. Getting 300k when you're obviously comfortable with the beatmap has never felt right for me. Glad it's changed!

And finally I'm okay with getting S w/o full combo. FC isn't always an indicator of a good score and just displaying a separate mark for it seems a better option.
However there is a quite unpopular opinion on grades topic: if we stick to the concept of osu!std being a combination of rhythm game and combo game, judging by accuracy only feels unsuitable for this particular ruleset. Awarding grades based on score would be better in my opinion.

That's my feedback. Should also say that I'm grateful for everything you and your team has done about Lazer so far! :-)

The acc feels too punishing as I only get one miss and I already have a 70% acc. But that is just for me rn.

Just wanted to leave some quick feedback. Sorry it's not really about gameplay.

As I came from Osu!Mania I LOVE S ranks for 95% accuracy. In my time playing osu there's been a few times I've had an acc of 95% (or higher) and not gotten an S rank... it's just slightly annoying. And then sometimes I FC with 93% acc S rank and it doesn't feel deserved. Great change.

I feel like retrying should be faster. Or at least be an option. Holding the reset bind brings up a screen which could be useful the first time you play a map, but as 1. I don't really care for changing any of these and 2. it's not needed the second or third time retrying a map. In classic you could move your cursor down to the bottom and pull up this screen. I don't see why it can't be the same here. Sure it's like .2 seconds longer but imo the time to retry in classic was already just long enough. The only reason I gripe about this is because I farm; but stands for a lot of osu players and would love to see a setting to not have this screen pop up the 2nd and following times you retry.

2 things about importing. For one I had ALL of my maps organized by date added and that's how I would find what I would want to play. Example 1000 stream maps were all towards the top of my songs I would just go there to play streams; however, now it seems like it sorta imported them all kind of randomly. I wish it would've imported them all in order. But it's no big deal.
Second thing, an unuploaded map I made didn't import over. I was hoping to be able to map more of it in lazer and can't upload it as I have too many maps uploaded right now. Also not a big issue, just wish it would've imported. There's probably a way to import it anyways but I'll just wait.

As for playing everything feels great. No issues yet.

Not sure if this stuff got addressed but On osu!catch editor on lazer when testing some basic patterns the catcher in the editor will miss, this seems to happen after you edit a pattern they still follow the old pattern. Also when using test mode the combo doesnt seem to register for a bit then out of nowhere it will register a bunch of fruit at once producing a very loud sound, this constantly happens.

Bosques wrote:

I feel like the scoring in general is rather disconnected since scoring 400k points can still be shown as an "s rank" in spite of the fact that it is under half of the total possible achievable score. It feels much less satisfying getting an S rank when you didn't really try too hard for it or beat the map with a "good" score. It also feels disconnected since in the final scoring screen with the wheel that has all the ranks, the rank D takes up well over half of the wheel yet I usually don't even get c ranks anymore.

Can you please attach a screenshot or replay of this score? It sounds pretty damn weird, so I'd want to investigate further.

The scoring feels good but i feel like its way too lenient at the same time, i dont think i should be getting a 547k score on a map where i missed 16 times across the whole map and only getting 250/1437 combo with 95.34% acc

i feel hp drain is far too forgiving compared to stable. it felt like i was passing difficult maps without putting in any of the work to actually hit the notes. as an example, on sythos mapset of judas [prophet] (hp5) on stable you can nearly pass the first 2 jump patterns, maybe 3s into the map, by clicking only half of the notes. but then on lazer you can get about 50% further. this turns into being able to pass while missing nearly the entire difficulty spike section in the end.

this only gets worse on stream maps where there is no notelock. while the judgement is more fair, i am able to pass maps with ease that i wouldnt be able to come anywhere near a pass on in stable. it feels like it invalidates passes entirely almost comparatively

for score with a 1 million cap it seems to be oddly lenient especially on short maps. im getting 330k score on a tv size stream map with 82.6% and 21 misses. along with 557k on a 2:14 map with 17 misses and 94% acc. it just feels strange to get so close to cap with a play that is nowhere near fc. not entirely opposed though

s without full combo is probably my least favorite change so far. as a 4 digit at least, its extremely easy to get 95% on any standard style map and it just feels like it invalidates what an s rank traditionally meant entirely. i can consistently s rank 8 or 9 star jump maps with a dozen or 3 dozen misses. it does not feel good to me to see an s on that.

I am against the change of S-ranks no longer requiring a Full-Combo. I intuitively felt the change in lettering to an S-rank (rather than reverse alphabetical) to signify something special. S-rank is the end goal of a map to a majority of osu!standard players. S-rank in osu!standard has historically been when you can say the map is completed. Having played mania as well, S-rank not requiring a Full-Combo makes perfect sense there as mania scoring/pp does not consider combo much at all. Osu!standard is a different beast entirely with how combo-oriented it is (and has to be when half of it is aiming). The goal is and has always been to get a Full-Combo, and that should align with the highest grading in my opinion.

Speaking from example, a play of 98% accuracy that is not a Full-Combo is a disappointment. A high accuracy means I could absolutely Full-Combo this map but I didn't on this play. It was a choke. I could do better and should retry to get the Full-Combo. I have not completed the map yet. The play should be awarded A-rank. The high accuracy is consistently re-creatable on any later attempt in my experience, whereas the Full-combo is more special.

Edit: I do believe the cutoff accuracy of 90% for A-rank and 95% for S-rank are correct, but S should also require a full combo.

I started playing about 3 months ago and switched to lazer about a month in, but still kept playing classic. I can't speak on some things because of that reason, mainly HP drain since I never paid much attention to it.

All slider changes except for slider head acc (in the last paragraph) feel great to me, their scoring though doesn't matter much to me. Probably another thing I just didn't pay attention to. Past that, all of it is good, especially in regards to very short sliders, because they used to be really hard to hit. Even now they're worse than spaced streams (or however it's called at my "fcing ~4* maps with some effort" level), but there's a huge improvement.

The capped spinners are great. I remember when I got my first SS and thought I would be among the first place ranks, only to learn they did spinners stupid fast and got more score for them. That's definitely a great change for newer players, I think it even motivates them to do spinners better because they have a real cap they can reach, instead of some mythical 477 rpm.

The scoring is definitely way better than it was, though to me it's now way too forgiving on some maps; on some maps I had ~800-900k highscores, and the changes didn't really do anything there, but on others I had 50-100k, then easily got ~300k after the changes for what should have been a really bad play, with like 10 misses and 85% acc. Feels a little too much. I think now that it's smoother it's way better overall, but it's not steep enough. It should punish going way above the player's league instead of giving a fifth of the max score for something they can barely pass.

The S also doesn't feel really special. I can sometimes get a score with 4 misses and a third of the combo, and still get an S for it because of fairly high acc, which feels weird. So yes, definitely something to distinguish full combo.

Also, one thing that bugs me is slider head acc - and yes, I know it's not exactly the topic, but it's important to me. PLaying stable and later classic, I got used to thinking circles are about accuracy and sliders are about tracking, and now when I play with slider head accuracy, it completely throws me off, to the point I often get ~90% scores where I did easy 97-98% on classic despite the fact maybe half of the objects are sliders. Skill issue, arguably, I know. Still, it bugs me, and I think it could be easily solved by making slider head accuracy an additional mod in the same vein as strict tracking.

visually the follow circle of the slider expands weirdly when not aiming the slider end correctly. Also my game runs gets like mini lagspikes, when on vsync its like every 3 seconds i drop a couple of frames and when using unlimited, its just lots of singular frame drops which makes the game looky laggy even though it says it runs between 200-600 fps (which is a big range te vary within imo)

Deag wrote:

For one I had ALL of my maps organized by date added and that's how I would find what I would want to play.

Import date is respected on importing, based on the file write time of .osu files in folders. Are you editing beatmaps or something? To adjust for practice difficulties?

Deag wrote:

Second thing, an unuploaded map I made didn't import over. I was hoping to be able to map more of it in lazer and can't upload it as I have too many maps uploaded right now. Also not a big issue, just wish it would've imported. There's probably a way to import it anyways but I'll just wait.

This doesn't sound right. Can you share the beatmap?