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Mirror Mod and Near poetic reasons implementation is a must.

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +957
Topic Starter
Raiku
[Mirror Mod 2014]

NixXSkate recently came up with a few solid reasons why we think a mirror mod should be implemented:

It is our reasonable judgement that compelled us to request the implementation of a mirror mod to flip the play-field vertically, (not the direction of hardrock which is horizontal) for the following reasons!

[The Compelling Argument]

1. Some people who have difficulty with certain patterns use certain sides of their brains to overcome them. This use of each side is apparent in the directions people spin, those who spin right predominantly use their right half to calculate and left use left etc. (Note: this is only my theoretical thinking, not based on solid research conducted by I.)

So using this knowledge, lets apply it to the well known pesky cyclones, some people naturally find clockwise rotating cyclones manageable or certain directions of triangles more comfortable, so with the implementation of a mirror mod we could allow for players to choose which direction of patterns they want, (Obviously the bonus for the selection of this mod would remain at x1.00).

2. Tilt. Rote Memory. Whatever pet name you have for this phenomenon that causes the player to lose focus after so many repetitive tries, nothing beats the ability to vertically flip your play-field to give that much needed brain refreshment.

One could argue however, that flipping the play-field creates a new view that the mapper didn't intend on creating. If that is so, why does hardrock pose the need to flip its play-field then? Mix and match. Mix and match, it creates diversity which is what osu! is famed for and compels people to play as they have for years.

And finally...

[Thought Provoking Outro]

3. Even though this has been suggested before, the requests prior to this avoided aformentioned details of its importance and application, and skirted briefly into why they thought it would be 'cool' and 'nice'. Felt like complaints more than solid reasons why we think a mirror mod would be a fantastic, diverse and exciting new feature.

I urge the majority of you to share our common view about this because the main thing NixXSkate and I were looking for was to create diversity and comfort for everyone involved in osu! Note that the idea here is not to make maps easier for everyone, but simply provide an alternative route around a problem based on the way people feel comfortable solving them!

On a plus note for those photoshop savvy, I'm looking forward to seeing your ideas for the Mirror Mod icon! Stylize and be creative with your ideas! Post it in the forum for all to 'reflect' upon.

Again, this is basic stuff and I'm certain the idea has floated between staff members before, regardless, I'd like to hear as much feedback as possible regarding a Mirror Mod 2014 (MM14 woo!)

p.s. After feedback I am backing the idea of unranked or x0.90 implementation. This idea does serve purpose as a fitting purveyor of variety.
dkun
JAKA just explained this to me.

You have my support on this!
JAKACHAN
Support!
buny
so essentially you have a way to make the map possibly easier, with no score reduction?
Primula_old
Support+ >w<!!
Toshi-Kun
Support desu~ :)

(If I know how to throw stars in. :< :? )
Topic Starter
Raiku

buny wrote:

so essentially you have a way to make the map possibly easier, with no score reduction?
Very valid point!

In essence the aim again, isn't to provide shortcuts but simply to provide a mirrored alternative (ha ha) to the situation based upon how they feel comfortable.

Point being, you aren't FORCED to spin clockwise, so people choose to spin anticlockwise because they feel more 'comfortable' doing so. My idea essentialy follows the same principle! :)

(wont somebody PLEASE think of the lefties!)
Coffee Hero
Support, I would love to see this.
Full Tablet
This would make the game a bit more fair IMO. For example: Right bottom corner to left upper corner jumps are bit more harder than left bottom corner to right upper corner jumps, and if I was a left-handed, the situation would probably be reversed (so some maps would be a bit easier for right-handed people than left-handed people, or vice-versa).
Lolzy

Full Tablet wrote:

This would make the game a bit more fair IMO. For example: Right bottom corner to left upper corner jumps are bit more harder than left bottom corner to right upper corner jumps, and if I was a left-handed, the situation would probably be reversed (so some maps would be a bit easier for right-handed people than left-handed people, or vice-versa).
I can't do right bottom->left up jumps and i find really easy left bottom->right up jumps and i'm right handed lol
Esti
Can follow reasoning, will back. Mod icon preview soon please :D
Alternative
Oh~~
That's an interesting idea!
I'll support!
thelewa
I used to have a lot of trouble with patterns that didn't flow in the same direction that I spin in, but then I worked on it a lot and got equally good at both flow directions

this mod would nullify most of my efforts and if I could do it then most probably anyone could do it, this just sounds like a way for lazy people to skip that extra practice

the same goes for losing focus with the more you play a map, you can even get better at that with practice

you can fix everything you pointed out with practice

0/5

Full Tablet wrote:

This would make the game a bit more fair IMO. For example: Right bottom corner to left upper corner jumps are bit more harder than left bottom corner to right upper corner jumps, and if I was a left-handed, the situation would probably be reversed (so some maps would be a bit easier for right-handed people than left-handed people, or vice-versa).
it would not make the game more fair since even right now there is no significant advantage as to what hand you use to aim with or what direction you spin towards

and even those slight differences that you've pointed out can be evened out with practice
Topic Starter
Raiku
Hey thelewa!

I wholeheartedly agree and almost feel like some serious thought could go into the idea of providing an altered bonus weighting behind the mod.

In any other case, I still feel that the good outweighs the bad in this situation and it DOES benefit players. Not just that, this practice you talk of can be replicated on a map you love and have patterns you are comfortable with: Simply play the map you love but with the Mirror mod, this way you can get used to patterns involving opposite flow, then apply said practice to maps you aren't so familiar with!

Also, what we DO have to remember is not everyone is as well practiced as you! D'you see where i'm coming from? The idea (while still a concept) surrounding this mod is so versatile!

Would you be able to provide some helpful feedback as to how to adjust the idea to suit its intended function as not just a game-changer but also as a practice tool and a fun alternative mod?

Cheers lewa :D
Ohrami
any advantage you could get from this is from either placebo or just being bad

stop gay
FrzR
Yes! :3
Bass
Support :)
Topic Starter
Raiku
good~ :D
Reyvateil
Supporting, I don't have much trouble with hitting corners or flowing in certain directions, but the idea of "refreshing" my memory of a map sounds interesting.
Elzapatoverde

TeaDots wrote:

Supporting, I don't have much trouble with hitting corners or flowing in certain directions, but the idea of "refreshing" my memory of a map sounds interesting.
Heinzen
I support this if unranked. Not if otherwise. This works well in 2 case scenarios:

1) You want to play a different "version" of the map you like.

2) You are lazy to learn how to deal with your weak spots.

Also, I feel that if a mapped made a pattern this way or the other one, it is meant to be like that, and as much as HR changes that, it also increases several other difficulty factors.

So on top of this suggestion:

I'd add this feature to Hard-Rock instead, where you can choose to invert the map horizontally or vertically. I'm against this if it's a new ranked mod or not HR implementation.
Soaprman
Hard Rock's increase of other difficulty factors is a big part of what makes it unattractive for this. Not everyone wants the whole bundle!

As for the "maps meant to be like that" argument, we've already got a far more damaging mod in the form of osu!mania's Random mod.
Heinzen
So, if Hard-rock module is unatractive to this, you are basically saying that you want something that makes the game easier and more convenient. Ok, make it a <1.0x mod then.
Negri_sk
Starru n Supportu ~ if lower score multiplier ofc
Soaprman

Heinzen wrote:

So, if Hard-rock module is unatractive to this, you are basically saying that you want something that makes the game easier and more convenient. Ok, make it a <1.0x mod then.
This isn't a step down in difficulty. It's a step to the side. It is exactly the same map, but flipped. There is no reason this should be anything but x1.0.

I should also note that this is a usability request. It's about comfort. It's akin to a left-handed person asking for some lefty scissors. Though I support it also because it sounds fun.
PyaKura

Soaprman wrote:

Hard Rock's increase of other difficulty factors is a big part of what makes it unattractive for this. Not everyone wants the whole bundle!

As for the "maps meant to be like that" argument, we've already got a far more damaging mod in the form of osu!mania's Random mod.
Unranked mod, solely meant to practice very unusual patterns. HR is not ranked in mania either.

I'd love to see this implemented for o!m as well, as an unranked mod, obviously.
Topic Starter
Raiku
The feedback here is great, I'm starting to see how practical this mod can be even if it was implemented x0.00 :)
Ekaru
Back when I mapped, I always intended for patterns to be played a certain way using the right hand.

So what happens when somebody uses their left hand to aim? Why, certain things that I intended to be natural come out as awkward. Flicks of the wrist become withdrawing motions, inward motions become outward motions, and so on. I wanted the player to move their mouse or pen in a specific way, not to a specific location. In order for the map to play to the left-handed players the way I intended it to play then you would have to flip the map from left-to-right.

So naturally, I support a mod that does just that. Yes, my maps sucked but that's besides the point.
Toran

Raiku wrote:

(wont somebody PLEASE think of the lefties!)
Finally some thought about us lefties o/
Rinnou Kouriri
Support!
Luffy-Kun
This is a fantastic idea. I wish this can be implemented soon.. I need this
-Soba-
I have never felt like I had more trouble with any pattern based off the direction it's going in, but support anyway! :3
TheVileOne
This adds another pointless mod to the game. That's my compelling argument not to have this.

Looks like my opinion is the minority.
silmarilen
i dont see a reason for this mod either other than an unranked mod. you're basically looking for a way around practicing.
being able to play patterns both ways is also a skill. at best it would be similar to spunout.
Reyvateil
Just as a quick thought, even if it makes one part easier, what of the rest of the map since some notes that were placed in easy spots for the play might be put into awkward spots after flipping? I say most of the maps will fall into this specific case, very few will turn actually harder or easier than they already are.

But I would support this even as unranked, this way I can at least play online without counting as a ranked play.
Yarissa
It can be used to avoid practice but it can likewise be used for practicing. I am indifferent to the mod but if it is implemented I agree that it should be unranked.

Neutral standpoint. If the mod could have more practical uses outside of the OP's argument or could have another difficulty factor added (such as hitting your cursor on the opposite side of the screen that the circles appear on) then I would consider supporting
Topic Starter
Raiku
agree agree agree, this can be added as an unranked mod purely for the fun aspect that we all need, and ill reiterate on another point: its not just a way around practice, but a form of practice itself.
TheVileOne
I wouldn't try and pull the practice card. peppy doesn't want a practice mode.
nyrox
Too much controversy for 1.0x score mod, reduced score mod or unranked is the only options I think.
D33d
Honestly, this would be a non-issue if mappers took a cue from iNiS style. The entire point of mirroring patterns is that the map is fair for both righties and lefties. Ouendan/EBA did this and osu!stream does this, because touch-based devices make it equally likely that either hand is used.

The case for not worrying about hand fairness in osu! is the fact that, even with natural lefties, the mouse is still on the right side. This is fine, but then the lefties are still stuck. A universal lefty/righty option could be an interesting addition to the game, since we probably aren't going to see frequent copypaste becoming popular any time soon. We have a lot of maps which are rotated slightly, in order to favour right-handed mouse usage by complementing the arc of the player's forearm. I like the fact that somebody's actually considering the accessibility of maps, as this kind of thinking can help novices, who won't necessarily commit to a game which makes them struggle.

If all else fails, go into the editor, hit ctrl+A and then hit ctrl+H to flip the whole map horizontally. This obviously won't be useful when playing for ranks, but it'll work just fine when playing for fun.
Topic Starter
Raiku
good call
Soner Wolf
I could even see how helpful this would be for taiko. It would really give everyone a tool to help iron out pattern recognition.
Heinzen

Soaprman wrote:

Heinzen wrote:

So, if Hard-rock module is unatractive to this, you are basically saying that you want something that makes the game easier and more convenient. Ok, make it a <1.0x mod then.
This isn't a step down in difficulty. It's a step to the side. It is exactly the same map, but flipped. There is no reason this should be anything but x1.0.

I should also note that this is a usability request. It's about comfort. It's akin to a left-handed person asking for some lefty scissors. Though I support it also because it sounds fun.


As I said, as lewa said. If you can't do things from one side to the other, flipping a map makes it convenient and easier. You won't have to step out of your confort zone and learn new things and deal with new challenges.

This mod is for lazy people.

Again, supporting if Unranked or <1.00x
El Capitan
Fantastic idea. Support! \o/
Soaprman

Heinzen wrote:

If you can't do things from one side to the other, flipping a map makes it convenient and easier.
What's easier for some will be harder for others.

Also, fun activity: when modding maps or even when editing your own maps, keep an eye out for long periods of clockwise or counterclockwise movement. You might spot some subconscious preference for one over the other! (I've actually flipped parts of my maps before because of this)
Topic Starter
Raiku
heinzen i back that
D33d

Soaprman wrote:

Heinzen wrote:

If you can't do things from one side to the other, flipping a map makes it convenient and easier.
What's easier for some will be harder for others.

Also, fun activity: when modding maps or even when editing your own maps, keep an eye out for long periods of clockwise or counterclockwise movement.
This is excellent advice, which addresses a fundamental error in a lot of maps. Even if nothing's copypasted, a map can still feel balanced by considering directional changes. That's the first step towards negating the need for this thread, but people will keep making this kind of mistake and the BAT probably won't care about it as much. If I'm wrong in that assumption, then even better.
Karuta-_old_1
After reading a bunch of argument involving the lazy, lefties and so.

I decided to support this

I am a right hander so I don't have any occassions where I need mirror So flipping the map doesn't really help much if I played maps from different beatmappers and thus I don't think it really gives people an advantage

Although it might add more competition if the rate is above 1.0, but I am not sure about that since people would use it as if it's a hidden mod just to score more (which could be easier in a way)

Plus flipping the map does help you know the beatmap better, like someone said it's just another play style(correct me if I'm wrong)
I know HR does the job, but most won't even be able to finish the map with it. since it's harder to hit and keep the health going.
Cozzzy
Yes please :!:

I'm not a leftie, but another example of usage: There are so many beatmaps I can't play without HR. Not because of low AR (I get this on some AR10 maps too), but just because I've developed bad habits from playing them so much that I anticipate certain parts of the map and can't hit them at all because of this - but the HR flip fixes this for me. This would also fix loads of mania problems~
BasedGod
Can somebody explain to me what a cyclone is?
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