am I the only one who finds both of those maps incredibly hard compared to other maps worth more points simply because of jumps which are super easy?
forum
Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)
posted
Total Posts
2,750
Probably because you're 2gud at jumpsAqo wrote:
am I the only one who finds both of those maps incredibly hard compared to other maps worth more points simply because of jumps which are super easy?
I have seen rog-unlimitation in a lot of Top Performances, so it probably is overrated. Except for the 220bpm mashing there's no skill involved in fc'ing it anyway.
I know it's hard, but it has a star rating on par with like kokou no sousei and other maps that I think are more difficult without a doubt.GoldenWolf wrote:
Gimme nightcore seems a little bit overrated yeah, but there are no spaced stream in rog-unlimitation though, the star rating there is fine because it has two 64 circles streams at 220bpm...
They're not the same, kokou no sousei has fullscreen squares at 240bpm, rog-unlimitation deathstreams at 220.. not the same kind of difficulty at allRewben2 wrote:
I know it's hard, but it has a star rating on par with like kokou no sousei and other maps that I think are more difficult without a doubt.
I see what you mean, they are difficult in their own ways, do you really think unlimitation is nearly as hard as sousei? Sousei has no fc's (apart from you know who) and unlimitation has multiple HDHR scores, lol. I think there are very little players that would actually find unlimitation harder despite having a higher star rating.GoldenWolf wrote:
They're not the same, kokou no sousei has fullscreen squares at 240bpm, rog-unlimitation deathstreams at 220.. not the same kind of difficulty at allRewben2 wrote:
I know it's hard, but it has a star rating on par with like kokou no sousei and other maps that I think are more difficult without a doubt.
who?
I guess it's because it's easy to mash rog-unlimitation, and since people care more about speed than 240BPM AR9 fullscreen squares, teehee
I guess it's because it's easy to mash rog-unlimitation, and since people care more about speed than 240BPM AR9 fullscreen squares, teehee
On the topic of map length: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/339058 <- This map with DT is 22 seconds long, and gives 134 pp at 100% accuracy, which is way too farmable. Sure it has some decent-ish jumps, but you get used to them in a few retries. Is the pp gained from a map affected by the amount of hit objects logarithmically?
134pp is nothing, the map is star rating 2.23, i know maps with similar star rating that give close to 200pp *cough* https://osu.ppy.sh/b/112645 *cough*
Damn ponies and their pp. It seems as though shorter maps have way too much emphasis on accuracy, considering how easy it is to retry them until you get a better percentage.silmarilen wrote:
134pp is nothing, the map is star rating 2.23, i know maps with similar star rating that give close to 200pp *cough* https://osu.ppy.sh/b/112645 *cough*
I suggest you to read the pp wiki about accuracymcdoomfrag wrote:
Damn ponies and their pp. It seems as though shorter maps have way too much emphasis on accuracy, considering how easy it is to retry them until you get a better percentage.
Mind elaborating? I feel as though I'm missing something.GoldenWolf wrote:
I suggest you to read the pp wiki about accuracymcdoomfrag wrote:
Damn ponies and their pp. It seems as though shorter maps have way too much emphasis on accuracy, considering how easy it is to retry them until you get a better percentage.
accuracy points is calculated on the number of circles of a map and how high the OD is, it has nothing to do with the actual length of the map
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/227061
This map and similar ones are extremely underrated by the current system because what's the main challenge of the map is reading. I mean, the top 50 isn't even all FC (granted that's because of the 1/6 at the end but still).
Is there any chance of this getting improved at some point?
This map and similar ones are extremely underrated by the current system because what's the main challenge of the map is reading. I mean, the top 50 isn't even all FC (granted that's because of the 1/6 at the end but still).
Is there any chance of this getting improved at some point?
almost half of the pp from the map i linked comes from accuracy, purely because it's od8+dt, there are other sub 300combo maps that give similar acc score, boosting them up by tons when they arent actually hard mapsGoldenWolf wrote:
accuracy points is calculated on the number of circles of a map and how high the OD is, it has nothing to do with the actual length of the map
Other examples of this are https://osu.ppy.sh/b/27737&m=0 and https://osu.ppy.sh/s/155691m, a lot of the difficulty is reading which the current system doesn't recognize at the moment. Tom said that he's still working on creating a satisfying algorithm for maps like these.Zare wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/227061
This map and similar ones are extremely underrated by the current system because what's the main challenge of the map is reading. I mean, the top 50 isn't even all FC (granted that's because of the 1/6 at the end but still).
Is there any chance of this getting improved at some point?
peppy's defense for making FL not give as much pp (at start of ppv2, granted, dunno how it's going to work now Tom behind the reigns) is because FL has to do more with memorization, which he thinks defeats the purpose of a rhythm game.
But current pp version IS v2TMoI wrote:
peppy's defense for making FL not give as much pp (during ppv2, granted, dunno how it's going to work now Tom behind the reigns) is because FL has to do more with memorization, which he thinks defeats the purpose of a rhythm game.
oopsGoldenWolf wrote:
But current pp version IS v2TMoI wrote:
peppy's defense for making FL not give as much pp (during ppv2, granted, dunno how it's going to work now Tom behind the reigns) is because FL has to do more with memorization, which he thinks defeats the purpose of a rhythm game.
I kinda meant prior to Tom's getting on board, that's just misinfo on my part ;-; will word properly
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/256819
this is fucking brutal to get good Acc on.
Frostmourne's 99% score on the map only gives him 117 pp. Acc difficulty isn't only determined by OD and amount of circles. When a song is this slow and still has so many friggin circles as opposed to sliders, it should get a huge bonus on acc pp imo.
this is fucking brutal to get good Acc on.
Frostmourne's 99% score on the map only gives him 117 pp. Acc difficulty isn't only determined by OD and amount of circles. When a song is this slow and still has so many friggin circles as opposed to sliders, it should get a huge bonus on acc pp imo.
Silynn's score on that song is the best
I know this may be kinda selfish to ask, but can someone put this on the wiki? I'm not 100% sure of where to put it. I was thinking about this and the only way to find it was to go back quite a bit of pages. This piece of info can be interesting to some players.Tom94 wrote:
I forgot to mention this on the wiki-page:
Every score gives a small base pp amount of 0.25, decreasing by a bit with every new highscore that you make. With 1000 highscores you get around 200pp and with 5000 around 400pp. The cap is 416.666pp at the moment, assuming infinitely many highscores are possible.
(pp gain = 0.25 * sum 0.9994^i, i=0 to amount of highscores)
This gets less and less relevant the higher your pp goes and is meant to both encourage playing more maps for the lower-level players and prevent big rank losses after making a new score at the lower ranks.
In the mid-high ranks it is pretty much irrelevant, since 99% of the people have enough highscores to be less than 50pp away from the cap.
And also, that small base pp can amount to way too many ranks. In my case, I need to click 18 times to show all my scores on my page and you have 50 scores showing when you first open it + 50 more from each click. That means I have 900-950 scores. If i just played easy/normal maps until I got closer to the cap I would jump from rank 2757 to 2050 or lower as of right now (something between 235 and 242 pp). I feel like this kind of jump is too huge, maybe you could put a hard cap on a lower amount of scores.
I'll just quickly do the math for you to show you just how inefficient that kind of "farming" would be:tfg50 wrote:
And also, that small base pp can amount to way too many ranks. In my case, I need to click 18 times to show all my scores on my page and you have 50 scores showing when you first open it + 50 more from each click. That means I have 900-950 scores. If i just played easy/normal maps until I got closer to the cap I would jump from rank 2757 to 2050 or lower as of right now (something between 235 and 242 pp). I feel like this kind of jump is too huge, maybe you could put a hard cap on a lower amount of scores.
Bonus pp at 950 scores (you): 0.25*(1-0.9994^950)/(1-0.9994) = 181 (rounded of course)
Bonus pp at 2000 scores (please imagine how long farming 1050 easy/normal scores would take): 0.25*(1-0.9994^2000)/(1-0.9994) = 291 (again, rounded)
So for ~1050 additional plays you would only get 110pp. Doesn't sound worth it to me. In fact, in the time it takes for you to farm that many scores, others will get actual good scores and surpass you again.
why do these 0108 songs give so little PP like only 160 more or less if only a few people can fc with 1 mod..? i think they should give like 250 or something lol
the accuracy is over 98% in case
the accuracy is over 98% in case
I believe It´s because:
1) They Were FC´d with 93% accuracy which lowers the amount of pp gain by alot, meaning that if it would have been a 99% acc score then the pp would probably be around 220 something.
2) probably most accurate guess... that wasn´t a full combo just an S with a decent accuracy. Probably got slider break at half song with 95% acc is my best guess.
I believe any questions on pp will be cleared further when the wiki is updated, until then we can just speculate(?
1) They Were FC´d with 93% accuracy which lowers the amount of pp gain by alot, meaning that if it would have been a 99% acc score then the pp would probably be around 220 something.
2) probably most accurate guess... that wasn´t a full combo just an S with a decent accuracy. Probably got slider break at half song with 95% acc is my best guess.
I believe any questions on pp will be cleared further when the wiki is updated, until then we can just speculate(?
Merged topic in case there is any confusion
Because the only hard part about them is the length.iderekmc wrote:
why do these 0108 songs give so little PP like only 160 more or less if only a few people can fc with 1 mod..? i think they should give like 250 or something lol
the accuracy is over 98% in case
I am curious if there is any plans to give a spin bonus at all. There are several maps where spinning fast is more important than accuracy and these performances should be awarded something. The faster you spin the harder it is to find you cursor when you come out of the spin. There is also the cases where there are notes very closely after the spinner which would make getting bonuses more risky.
Would anyone disagree that spinning fast is a skill and should be rewarded as such?
Would anyone disagree that spinning fast is a skill and should be rewarded as such?
I don't know any maps where you actually have to spin very fast to complete them with the exception of a Demetori song and that AugoEidEs song (dumb super long spinners). Also, losing your cursor during a spinner really only affects mouse users because of cursor drift, tablet users can use their muscle memory to hit the note with no issue. I may be wrong on this part, but isn't it against the mapping rules to put a note too soon after the spinner?TheVileOne wrote:
I am curious if there is any plans to give a spin bonus at all. There are several maps where spinning fast is more important than accuracy and these performances should be awarded something. The faster you spin the harder it is to find you cursor when you come out of the spin. There is also the cases where there are notes very closely after the spinner which would make getting bonuses more risky.
Would anyone disagree that spinning fast is a skill and should be rewarded as such?
I do think spinning fast is a skill, I know I don't have that skill because I can't spin faster than 400 even at my best, but I don't agree that it should be rewarded. Going past completion is a bonus in score, that should be enough. Going past completion should not award more pp just like being more accurate than OD10 requires will not award more pp.
It would be a minor bonus. I don't think it would hardly affect the map's overall rating in comparison with other maps. Consider scores where the only difference between them is the spinner bonus points. I think people that can spin faster should be given more points. They got a higher score with same accuracy/ mods. Their play should be considered more highly performed. It would also counteract small changes in accuracy due to the player getting a better score from a spinner bonus. For the sake of accuracy it must be counted.
all that matters for spinners is being able to get a 300, you already get punished with a 100 (and thus lower pp) if you cant spin fast enough.
being able to get more spinner bonus is like being able to get 60 unstable rate on an od6 map. it's cool and all but pointless and it shouldnt give you more pp.
being able to get more spinner bonus is like being able to get 60 unstable rate on an od6 map. it's cool and all but pointless and it shouldnt give you more pp.
What about unstable rates? I've seen people get SS's on maps with 120 unstable rates, and others SS with 70. Should the player with the 70 unstable rate be awarded more pp? They both did what was required of the map and achieved the SS, but one player did better and was not rewarded for it.TheVileOne wrote:
It would be a minor bonus. I don't think it would hardly affect the map's overall rating in comparison with other maps. Consider scores where the only difference between them is the spinner bonus points. I think people that can spin faster should be given more points. They got a higher score with same accuracy/ mods. Their play should be considered more highly performed. It would also counteract small changes in accuracy due to the player getting a better score from a spinner bonus. For the sake of accuracy it must be counted.
In a perfect world I would agree that would be considered as well. But in reality pp must be consider for the OD of a map. Also unstable rate doesn't affect score. Obviously peppy felt spinners deserved to have bonuses. Taiko doesn't allow you to get a bonus off the spinners. CTB should certainly deserve a small bonus as well.
There are many maps with tied mod combinations that only differ due to spinner bonus. We should be differentiating each tied play, because some people can get bonuses many thousands more than other players, especially on longer spinners where endurance is concerned. Why should a deserved number 1 play on a map not be considered the best performance compared to the several dozen other people who got less points?
There are many maps with tied mod combinations that only differ due to spinner bonus. We should be differentiating each tied play, because some people can get bonuses many thousands more than other players, especially on longer spinners where endurance is concerned. Why should a deserved number 1 play on a map not be considered the best performance compared to the several dozen other people who got less points?
Just because peppy felt that spinners should have score bonus doesn't mean they should be given pp also. Unless unstable rates are accounted for I cannot agree that spinners should be given a bonus. In my opinion, a lower unstable rate play is much better than a higher scoring song because of a spinner bonus.TheVileOne wrote:
In a perfect world I would agree that would be considered as well. But in reality pp must be consider for the OD of a map. Also unstable rate doesn't affect score. Obviously peppy felt spinners deserved to have bonuses. Taiko doesn't allow you to get a bonus off the spinners. CTB should certainly deserve a small bonus as well.
There are many maps with tied mod combinations that only differ due to spinner bonus. We should be differentiating each tied play, because some people can get bonuses many thousands more than other players, especially on longer spinners where endurance is concerned. Why should a deserved number 1 play on a map not be considered the best performance compared to the several dozen other people who got less points?
It should be given pp because of several reasons.
1. It's a skill, and an integrated part of playing. There is no argument that can be made that will make me believe otherwise that someone spinning at 470 SPM is performing equally well to someone spinning at 300 SPM.
2. It affects score. A player with a higher score due to something that requires skill should be awarded something even if that something is very marginal. I don't see this value being very high, at least for sane spinning SPMs. If someone averages near what osu! can get for a max spin, then a point given per spinner is reasonable. Given that 1 mod added gives more than that, it would work out. (Obviously the value would change based on length of spinner).
3. At the rate most players spin the bonus would probably be less than 1 pp per spinner and close to nothing near the SPM considered easy to obtain given the OD.
4. Makes beating a score with a better spin rewarding.
5. Gives more points to Incognito, one of the best spinners in osu! Check this map. Adding HardRock isn't enough to take the number one spot. There are people in top 50 who get more points than four mod plays. Spinning ability is certainly more impressive in this map than playing it with all mods.
6. Removes point ceiling on maps. An SS can be worth more points with a better spin.
1. It's a skill, and an integrated part of playing. There is no argument that can be made that will make me believe otherwise that someone spinning at 470 SPM is performing equally well to someone spinning at 300 SPM.
2. It affects score. A player with a higher score due to something that requires skill should be awarded something even if that something is very marginal. I don't see this value being very high, at least for sane spinning SPMs. If someone averages near what osu! can get for a max spin, then a point given per spinner is reasonable. Given that 1 mod added gives more than that, it would work out. (Obviously the value would change based on length of spinner).
3. At the rate most players spin the bonus would probably be less than 1 pp per spinner and close to nothing near the SPM considered easy to obtain given the OD.
4. Makes beating a score with a better spin rewarding.
5. Gives more points to Incognito, one of the best spinners in osu! Check this map. Adding HardRock isn't enough to take the number one spot. There are people in top 50 who get more points than four mod plays. Spinning ability is certainly more impressive in this map than playing it with all mods.
6. Removes point ceiling on maps. An SS can be worth more points with a better spin.
mmmmm thats what i was thinkingjesus1412 wrote:
Because the only hard part about them is the length.iderekmc wrote:
why do these 0108 songs give so little PP like only 160 more or less if only a few people can fc with 1 mod..? i think they should give like 250 or something lol
the accuracy is over 98% in case
Separate points gained from hitobjects and average the remaining points based on total points possible off the spinners. It wouldn't be as accurate as per spinner data, but those who spin large spin large on all the spinners and would still get some form of a bonus. It would be unfortunate if you could not separate score associated with spinner bonus from score associated with regular hitobjects.