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Pro-Con Style of Modding; For newbie mappers

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Topic Starter
Ekaru
'K, I am going to try this out now, and see how this goes. What is this, you ask?

See, I have been getting annoyed lately at some maps, and thought, "what if I could just say what I didn't like in general, but also point out the things I did like, and make it easier to understand than a long ass list?"

Basically, it's more constructive criticism and less pointing out actual errors. In most cases, the mappers should be able to fix what is said in the "Cons" section if they care enough and aren't lazy. Specific things can be pointed out if need be.

Current modding is mostly.... lemme grab a random map as an example, ah, here's a Ranked map I didn't like very much:

Normal:
00:20:19 (4,5) - 3 doesn't overlap 4, but 4 overlaps 5. This is sloppy and noticeable.
00:21:28 (6) - ^
00:34:55 (3,4,5) - This part feels weird and doesn't go well to the music
01:01:46 (4,5,6) - Too hard for a Normal

Hard:
00:24:74 (1,2,1,2,3,1,1,1,2,3,1,1,1) - AAAAAH random New Combo markers! Fix please
00:27:65 (1,2,3) - 3 feels weird and doesn't go to the music.
00:28:55 (1,1,1,1) - Here you go with random New Combo markers again!
00:32:55 (1,2,3,4) - Uneven stacking AAAAAAH

Etc.

Now, here's how pro-cons would go for this particular map:

Normal:

Pros:
-Nice use of rhythm overall
-It flowed well
-The spacing was almost perfect, could've used slightly further spacing for the 1/2s, but it worked

Cons:
-Too many repeats, especially short repeat sliders. I would recommend cutting those down.
-Some 1/2s slightly overlap while others don't. This looks sloppy overall.
-01:05:10 (1,2,3) - Doesn't really play well. It does look pretty, though. This happens a few times in your map. I would keep the overall patterns, but change the timing of the notes.

Hard:

Pros:
-Map is pretty fun, it has a nice rhythm.
-It flows well for the most part, rough in a few places.
-Nice patterns!
-I really liked parts like 01:05:10 (1,2,3,4,1,1,1,2) which had unconventional rhythms that still played well and were as fun as hell.

Cons:
-Many of the New Combos feel a bit random.
-There's some uneven stacking going on. This is annoying for many players because it can be hard to read, and punishes the player for simply tapping one too many times in a row.
-Some of the 1/4s don't feel weird to me.
-There was a lot of slider overlap.

---------

So, what's the difference?

First, Pro-Con has the Pros, which current modding usually lacks, except for the "good map overall, etc." generic statements I see too often and am guilty of. The Pros are usually in some detail, and are very useful for the mapper, since they know what they did right (I wish I knew what I did right and should do in the future D:).

As for Cons? It can be easier for some people to read this and understand this, and is in a way that's straight to the point, informative, and not as overwhelming. I also find it easier to comprehend then a longass list that seems like it's out to violate me and ruin my life.

I'm going to see how this goes. If anyone wants to help test this, be my guest. It may work, it may not.

Main reason I'm trying it out is that it allows me to cover more easier, Pros can help people's self-esteem and soften the blow for the Cons, and could potentially feel a lot less like I'm after them and trying to ruin their life. I think it could be more informative. Also allows me to post technically correct things I didn't like without feeling like an ass.

Of course, if it doesn't work, I'll ditch it, but I doubt that'll be the case.

Testing now, let's see if it works. ~
Cuddlebun
jesus christ another ekaru thread no one gives a shit about
Loginer
Pointing out problems that need to be fixed is more important than actively looking for reasons to pat people on the back. If you like a map, just give it a star.
Takuma
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Mystearica

Takuma wrote:

Todesengal wrote:

jesus christ another ekaru thread no one gives a shit about
yeah uh
pretty much yeah

also QFT @ Tode
Gens
If both were used, it would be good. But meh, I think the actual modding works if it's made correctly. Have you looked at my mod posts? I've got some balance between those two, I think. =3
Derekku
People already DO point out what they like when modding. But yeah, more people should.
0_o
If there's one particular part or aspect of the map that makes me go "AHH THIS IS AWESOME" then I'll point it out, but basically,

Loginer wrote:

Pointing out problems that need to be fixed is more important than actively looking for reasons to pat people on the back. If you like a map, just give it a star.
this pretty much nails it imo
Topic Starter
Ekaru
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
anonymous_old
I support you, Ekaru.

Granted, I only skimmed the thread.

However.

When I first went to mod, I started making a few paragraphs about what I liked and disliked while playing, similar to your pro/con list thing. Then I thought, why not look at how most other people mod maps? I came to the mechanic lists everyone's used to and started using that.

I haven't modded in a long while, so I can't say how things are now, but before, most mods looked like a robot made them. Not fun.
Ephemeral
All you get with this is arbitrary 'surface-modding' which is of no use to the mapper in any particular way, shape or form.

Dumbing down modding means you dumb down maps. Things are bad enough as is.
anonymous_old

Ephemeral wrote:

Dumbing down modding means you dumb down maps. Things are bad enough as is.
Please explain how Ekaru's proposal is dummying down modding.
Topic Starter
Ekaru
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Wojjan

Ekaru wrote:

It's also very useful to the mapper I seriously did it with last night.
Teehee
anonymous_old
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
0_o

strager wrote:

This is how Ekaru gets his KD's.
lol'd

I will say that something like the format Ekaru pointed out can be more effective and efficient for newbie maps with a lot of flaws. If a map is riddled with unintuitive spacing and nonsensical new combos, simply giving out general tips pointing them out is a lot easier on both the modder and the mapper.
Jinxy
Sometimes when I see a epic part in the map, I do this:

eg.

A random mod wrote:

01:14:46 (2,3,4,5) - great part, its challenging and special
01:22:81 (5) - new combo
01:23:49 (9) - ^
01:24:17 (5) - ^
01:20:08 (7,8,9,10,11) - this part does not fit the song really
anonymous_old
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
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