Well I did make a thread in the RC subforum and got some positive opinions but I think I'll get more inputs in here.

So here's the thread.

Basically it's treating different K as different modes difficulty-wise (2 diffs for each K, i.e. : 4K EZ and 4K MX + 7K EZ and 7K MX)

Thoughts ? Vote and try to explain why you agree/disagree. If you don't mind then don't vote, you're free to argue though.

(I voted Yes, I don't need to explain why I did so here, my point is explained in the thread I've linked above)

I voted yes because I agree with your statement in the other thread, on the other hand I'm not sure if every mapper wants to include all key modes on their songs... But treating different keymodes as a different difficulity is a bit weird so yeah.

Seems like the purpose of this thread is to bring attention to the Ranking Criteria one. I'm fine with that though, posted in both. Current rules make no sense.

Tear wrote:

Seems like the purpose of this thread is to bring attention to the Ranking Criteria one.

Yes, because I don't think everyone checks the RC subforum as much as they do in the o!m subforum.

Hardly anyone checks the RC forums except BATs and a few other regulars, from what I've seen.

I read what you wrote in the RC forums and what you wrote here as well, and I agree. As both an osu!mania player as well as a stepmania player I know that 4k songs can be just as hard as or even harder than 7k and that of course works the other way around as well.

I've always found it ridiculous that people consider 4k to always be easier than 7k. I can for example at least A smooooch 7k MX but barely pass 4k MX, haha.

Edit: Also they should indeed be considered different modes, since it takes different types of skills for each of them modes. While 4k would be considered more reaction time oriented, 7k is more about the ability to read patterns.

I voted for no, reasons are already listed in RC forum.

Actually, I think your intentions are good, but how many 4key mappers are there in osu!mania community?...

As far as I know there are only one-digit people who can effectively make an insane 4k, and regarding 5k and 6k, things are even worse.
Comparing to 7k and 8k basis, I think this is the key problem.

So it would be a good idea to get more 4key mappers. But will they come? 4key is already at its lowest recognition level ever, despite of our attempt to promote it. Now when you see a room name with 4k it means beginner rooms... it's rather sad.

I voted no, although this is for good intentions, it'll stop getting lots of really great, high quality maps from being ranked. I think mappers should have to freedom to map what they want, and how they want it, and I think this is a little bit harsh. But the intentions great, but my vote is a no for this one

If there's one thing I learned from standard, it's that people will come up with the most ridiculous excuses for being lazy.

While I agree... We don't really 'need' excuses for being lazy. Nobody has obligations to make maps in certain ways. If you don't want to map 5K for example then why would you? There would just be more mappers making unranked maps... Which is actually not a big deal because nobody cares about the ranking atm anyway.

Tear wrote:

If there's one thing I learned from standard, it's that people will come up with the most ridiculous excuses for being lazy.

Actually I don't know why, but it seems everyone from standard like to put "lazy" cap onto osu!mania. Sorry for offence...

I'll restate what I have said on the RC forum:

Mappers are NOT LAZY as you think. High grade mappers know how to utilize all columns - whether 4 or 7 - to show their understanding of the song. If you dig into osu!mania mapping, you would find that 4 key mapping is far from 7 key mapping. This is why people tend to map only on their desired key amounts. I believe a good comparison would be CS - While using CS2 and CS7, things are completely different.

What I'm worried about, and is happening with my observation is, "Mappers that are hardworking enough, not so lazy" are already being perfunctory, to fill the diff spread with "proper diffs that is suitable for everyone". These diffs are fully playable, but not with anything remarkable. This drives quality-first mappers further away because they are not competitive with these quantity-first mappers.

Not much work is needed actually for a simplify work - which means it is absolutely easy to let mappers follow these rules. (If you have only 1 diff on certain key, just simplify it, removing a few rhythm lines and all set!) Actually, this is how new anime OP/ED being ranked in no time. (I have heard from multiple osu!mania mappers saying they need up to a month to polish a single map.)

But do players feel happy about this? If in the future, players have such reaction like "Oh a new map having a 4key/7key/whatsoever normal. Yeah It would be another map that just looks the same, without anything that I would remember." It would be a really sad thing. With beginner players starting at playing the lowest level diff of a map, the situation become worse because mappers tend to put better effort on higher diffs.

(Yeah, modding can't change a map's general quality, for no one would substitute the mapper itself for creative output.)

I think I'll give 4K mapping a try xxbidiao, and I map mainly hard maps ^_^
Cuz I have a slight interest in 4K lately and I think 4K just deserves more attention.

Xcrypt wrote:

I think I'll give 4K mapping a try xxbidiao, and I map mainly hard maps ^_^
Cuz I have a slight interest in 4K lately and I think 4K just deserves more attention.

4K Do deserves more attention.

Welcome to 4Key mapping world, and don't hesitate to ask me for help / mod!