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[Rule Change] Marathon map length requirement

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Total Posts
167
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
karterfreak

General Ranking Criteria wrote:

Approved Category is only for Marathon maps. Long maps with over 6 minutes of draining time fit the Approval category. Only then they are allowed to be single difficulty mapsets. If they are below 6 minutes of draining time, a full difficulty spread is needed and the map will have to be ranked instead.
I'm suggesting that we change the underlined section to 5 minutes. I'm aware this was discussed before, but I feel it should be brought up again.

My reasoning for this is:

- My estimated average map length of maps uploaded to osu! are 2 minutes and 30 seconds long (based on a sample size of 500 maps from my collection of maps, if someone can give a more accurate number it could potentially help my case). I feel that 6 minutes is just far too long for a requirement based on the average that I got, as it is more than double the length of the average.

- Mapping a full set (E, N, H, I. Not including other game modes) would be 20 minutes of mapped gameplay for a mapset. This is already a large time investment for both a mapper to create and for a modder to give a quality mod on.

- Map quality could see a possible increase with mods on longer maps being more detailed due to there being less difficulties in the set. There is less potential for things to be missed as well, as the 2 BAT approval requirement would ensure less mistakes in the set.

- Mappers would be more inclined to accept guest difficulties for alternative game modes knowing that only one difficulty for said game mode is required, leading to more game modes overall being included in mapsets. (eg: It's easier to get mods for one 5 minute taiko difficulty than two, and taiko mods are already scarce as is.)

Post thoughts and such on why you agree or disagree with this here.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
Supporting this.

But I feel like this has been discussed numerous times before, and it's pretty much always ended up as "No"
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
Not sure regulary I always made long maps with a properly spread and I dont have problem getting mods thought, 6 mins are ok In my opinion cuz I have the feeling the beatmaps should have a properly spread of diffs so more people can enjoy them.

I really don't agree with 5 mins it will end with alot of beatmaps with 1 diff just playables for the 5% or less of the comunity.
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
karterfreak
Getting mods isn't as much of an issue if your map is under 4 minutes, which all of your ranked maps are from what I can see?

I get what you mean in regards to 1 diff for 5% or less of the community, but to counter that argument: Not all marathon length maps have to be insanes, and lowering marathon length requirement to 5 minutes would persuade more map creators to allow multiple modes in their mapset (as you don't need 2 diffs for that mode anymore, only one), which would in turn include more of the community (taiko / ctb / mania) would it not?
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
I agree, if possible, I would like to change it to 4:30 ...
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu

Tasha wrote:

Getting mods isn't as much of an issue if your map is under 4 minutes, which all of your ranked maps are from what I can see? yes maybe you right, but 1 min more its not a big difference

I get what you mean in regards to 1 diff for 5% or less of the community, but to counter that argument: Not all marathon length maps have to be insanes, and lowering marathon length requirement to 5 minutes would persuade more map creators to allow multiple modes in their mapset (as you don't need 2 diffs for that mode anymore, only one), which would in turn include more of the community (taiko / ctb / mania) would it not?
Also I don't think some one will map a marathon for a normal/easy diff, also people who care about their maps dont will reject other modes diffs imo. anyways let's see more opinions about this
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
I'll be happy of support this one. This would allow certain flexibility to some mappers, allowing them to focus on a single diff, possibly gather a few more mods and testplays, and with this, the quality would improve maybe in a considerable ammount. Of course mapping a spread would be always preferable regardless of difficulty.

Also I think 5 minutes should be already considered a marathon as songs that goes above 4:00-4:30 minutes aren't that common (also it's somehow tiring to play to some people).

Natsu wrote:

Also I don't think some one will map a marathon for a normal/easy diff
I think Tasha meant that the song would not support a "true Insane" diff (like http://osu.ppy.sh/s/70248).
Garven
osu! Alumni
5,857 posts
Joined January 2010
Garven
5 minutes would cover way too many songs that would really want for a full spread - and you know that very few people will bother if they don't have to. I'd rather keep it at the 6 minute mark so it keeps the category limited to keep difficulty spread integrity whole and leaves something to be called a "marathon" at least a little closer to the mark.
LZD
359 posts
Joined December 2009
LZD
lazyness
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani

LZD wrote:

lazyness
Thank you for your input
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
karterfreak

Garven wrote:

5 minutes would cover way too many songs that would really want for a full spread - and you know that very few people will bother if they don't have to. I'd rather keep it at the 6 minute mark so it keeps the category limited to keep difficulty spread integrity whole and leaves something to be called a "marathon" at least a little closer to the mark.
This is true, but songs that fit even in marathon ranking criteria want for a full spread. This wouldn't change that so much, but it would promote more songs that are longer in length being mapped, even if only single difficulties. A lot of this discussion revolves around how we define "marathon" in the context of osu!, and based on average song length, I feel that this would still fit that definition.

LZD wrote:

lazyness
Thank you for your constructive, thought provoking feedback.
Mercurial
Mercurial

Tasha wrote:

This is true, but songs that fit even in marathon ranking criteria want for a full spread. This wouldn't change that so much, but it would promote more songs that are longer in length being mapped, even if only single difficulties
Pretty much, I have a bunch of songs I wanted to map before as Marathon and I couldn't because they were just 4:30/5 minutes long.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull

Garven wrote:

5 minutes would cover way too many songs that would really want for a full spread - and you know that very few people will bother if they don't have to. I'd rather keep it at the 6 minute mark so it keeps the category limited to keep difficulty spread integrity whole and leaves something to be called a "marathon" at least a little closer to the mark.
But even then, most songs today are pretty much 1:30 - 2:00 min from TV sizes and rhythm game.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those

Tasha wrote:

even if only single difficulties
And that is mainly what we want to avoid. The intended purpose of this rule change will not be realized, since the community is full of people that have this particular mindset:

Mercurial wrote:

Pretty much, I have a bunch of songs I wanted to map before as Marathon and I couldn't because they were just 4:30/5 minutes long.
and to continue on the thought process which was conveniently left out: and I didn't want to have to map another 4:30/5 minutes to spread the difficulty to appeal to a larger audience.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Do you even map full ver?
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,535 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
Most of the songs i map are over 4 minutes long, when I let my friends play them, their initial reaction is usually "wow, so long"
I guess that's what most people would see such songs as, just saying.
Garven
osu! Alumni
5,857 posts
Joined January 2010
Garven
If you're taking the 1:30 route, that's only 3-4x longer than a normal map. Hardly what I could consider a "marathon" even in osu terms. I also remember modding many a 4-5 minute full spread mapset back in the day when score was the determining factor for approval. I don't see why people are suddenly unable to pull that off now-a-days. If they think they can't do it on their own, call friends and collaborate. There are plenty of options here besides just trying to make this more lenient - try using those. The ones that you say want for better spread are usually gunning for the bare minimum - 6:01, ya know? If someone bothers to make an actual marathon-length map (thinking 10 minutes plus) it's a lot easier to at least argue for more lenient restrictions.
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
I don't really agree with the "let's map only one difficulty to 5 minutes because I'm lazy" image.
The first thing that needs to be considered is the difference between a TV Size 3 difficulty set and a single difficulty that's about 5 minutes.
If a TV Size is 1:40 in length, that 3 difficulty set will have an identical runtime to the 5 minute difficulty.
The only true difference here is the spread of the difficulties, the TV Size has a benefit of giving a larger range of players gameplay.
Actually Garven pretty much says it here

Garven wrote:

If you're taking the 1:30 route, that's only 3-4x longer than a normal map. Hardly what I could consider a "marathon" even in osu terms.

If you're 3x to 4x the length of a TV Size, that implies work that could fill 3 to 4 TV Size difficulties, which is a traditional spread on a TV Size.

It's not about laziness, I don't think it ever could have been considering how much work goes into a 5 minute difficulty.
The jump to 6 was always bizarre in that way to me. I understood the original rules for approval (~5:00 because that ended up making 20 million points) as something of that size could easily have its work chopped up into a shorter, smaller set somewhere else. The whole purpose was to have a very polished difficulty in a special place out of the way of the normal maps.

So why is this rule still going? Is it about spread? It can't be spread because we still allow single difficulties in general.
It's not about laziness right? If it was laziness then the 2 difficulty 30 second requirement would have to be increased (1 minute of runtime).
What is this rule's purpose? I've been looking for an answer ever since this rule was put into place.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
This actually can work as Guideline in often cases.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

LZD wrote:

lazyness
yeah because mapping 1 diff on a 30 seconds song and having the rest be GD totally isnt lazy right?
Avena
2,158 posts
Joined December 2012
Avena
Lemme get this clear, you guys call mappers who want to only map 1 diff for a 5 minute song lazy while this type of stuff get ranked weekly? (Not bashing at the mappers who made these maps, just using them as examples)
Also, do you think this map would have been as polished and great if Chocopikel was forced to make a full spread for it? I doubt he would even make the map if that was the case back then since he would probably get turned off by the idea of making 3 diffs for a song that is nearly 6 minutes.
Garven
osu! Alumni
5,857 posts
Joined January 2010
Garven
The thing is that if you want to map something longer, then it's pretty obvious that you're going to have to put more work in. Loosening spread restrictions on that account doesn't really make sense to me when the length of the song is still fairly reasonable. Plenty of people get their friends together and produce collaborations to distribute the work load since these are much larger projects to undertake (though I've seen a lot of grumblings about people calling this "lazy" in chat as well, but that's another topic).

I'm still thinking the spirit of the rule is to make sure that more map sets have a spread that is more accessible to all ranges of players, along with bringing the Approval category back to it's original intent - to highlight special/gimmicky maps that otherwise don't fit the standard mold - not just a single Difficulty for a song. After a quick glace at the ranking criteria, it seems the only mention about the approval category is the length - did the gimmick inclusion change on me while I wasn't looking? The mention of the whole polished lengthy difficulty kind of goes along with an older guideline that recommended people map songs from 2:00 - 3:30 in length (which currently says 3 minutes) but I don't see that as much of a justification for the old approval rules beyond maybe an allusion to the score barrier since we supposedly aim for polished maps regardless of length.

Anyway, from what I recall, 6 minutes was kind of a compromise to say that once you break that barrier, the length is good enough for something considered as a marathon (though I personally think it's a bit short for that kind of label, but whatever). I believe peppy agreed for only that criteria for giving a map set a scoreboard that didn't have a proper spread, though that leads me to wonder about the status of the rare special map that does come along that truly is special and breaks the standard osu! mold as I mentioned earlier.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Priti wrote:

Lemme get this clear, you guys call mappers who want to only map 1 diff for a 5 minute song lazy while this type of stuff get ranked weekly? (Not bashing at the mappers who made these maps, just using them as examples)
Such comparison with other Maps was already in the past bad and lead to unneeded discussion and fights and we shouldn't provoke that. Also Example 2 is out of place since this community is smaller, much smaller as the Standard one.

As said this Rule can actually goes well as Guideline in really special cases because things like Nous, this Map here or dreamenddischarger are obviously hard enough for their level and can be determined for approval. Other: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/32522 is 5:30 long and contains a full Spread.


I find the Approval category should contain two kinds of Maps:
- ) Extraordinarily Maps - which are not completely dumb mapped but still very challenging to fc.
- ) Marathon or Compilation Maps

Actually the approval Category was made for real gimmick Maps but since osuka is the only Map which has been approved since the change I don't think there will be more maps of this kind.. except this approval 2.0 thing will be implemented.
Kodora
Kodora
Why can't we just use total score as main metric for approval like it was before :(

And yes, support.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Kodora wrote:

Why can't we just use total score as main metric for approval like it was before :(

And yes, support.
This would cause that people have to decrease the Tickrate/OD not reaching the maximum of points a Map can have. Not a good solution at all.
Kodora
Kodora

Stefan wrote:

This would cause that people have to decrease the Tickrate/OD not reaching the maximum of points a Map can have. Not a good solution at all.
Tickrate here only for hitsounds things. Unreasonable low OD is something what just should be modded out while modding process. Don't really see problems about it.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Kodora wrote:

Tickrate here only for hitsounds things.
It seems you ignored the fact that TR1 gives less points as TR2.
TR2
TR1

This doesn't makes a real difference to songs under three Minutes and would also only affect to Insane Difficulties but if you imagine this for >5 Minute Songs we can see a difference.

Kodora wrote:

Unreasonable low OD is something what just should be modded out while modding process. Don't really see problems about it.
How is a wrong OD related to a OD which cause too many points?


On-Topic: Since I haven't said anything to the OP yet: Five Minutes seems much better (also supporting this) because it really often feels that people avoiding Songs between five and six Minutes. Also I rarely saw them, the only full spreaded Mapset I currently know is https://osu.ppy.sh/s/74277
Kodora
Kodora

Stefan wrote:

Kodora wrote:

Tickrate here only for hitsounds things.
It seems you ignored the fact that TR1 gives less points as TR2.

How is a wrong OD related to a OD which cause too many points?
I didn't ignored anything. Manipulating TR and OD just to reach needed score for approval is just wrong (and actually it never was allowed). If people will do so, it will be just pointed out while modding.

Possible score metric will be more gimmicky and effectively imo.
[Luanny]
8,248 posts
Joined April 2011
[Luanny]

silmarilen wrote:

LZD wrote:

lazyness
yeah because mapping 1 diff on a 30 seconds song and having the rest be GD totally isnt lazy right?
Came here to say this
You're faster
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
karterfreak
Alright guys, lets try and keep this from turning into an argument. I'm all for differing opinions but don't turn it into mud slinging (Calling mappers lazy, etc.).

On topic here, I understand the issue that many of the non-supporters are having, and can see how abuse cases could form, so I propose a compromise that would nullify abuse cases while supporting multi game mode inclusion (which, for some reason I didn't include as a point in the opening post, is actually my primary concern, editing that in now.)

General Ranking Criteria wrote:

Approved Category is only for Marathon maps. Long maps with over 6 minutes of draining time fit the Approval category. Only then they are allowed to be single difficulty mapsets. If they are below 6 minutes of draining time, a full difficulty spread is needed and the map will have to be ranked instead.
We leave the above as is, but with an additional exception that reads:

Maps longer than 5 minutes may be considered for approval if they include more than one game mode
This would prevent abuse cases of people ranking single difficulty maps and promote mappers to collaborate or possibly even learn how to map different game modes, and would be an overall improvement for multi-mode sets.

Keep in mind this is just a proposal if we can't come to an agreement regarding the current discussion of 5 minute marathon requirement regardless of mode inclusion.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
So mixed Sets can be approved with 5 Minutes? Actually supporting that but I am not sure if this is the good way how we should deal with the current situation.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
Mapping a single 5 mins difficulty is tiring enough t.t
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Guideline it to 5-6 drain minutes as the cutoff. Maps in this range can be approved or ranked up to the mapper's discretion.

osu needs less rules and more "reasonable".

Rules can't be broken. Guidelines shouldn't be broken.
Kodora
Kodora

Tasha wrote:

General Ranking Criteria wrote:

Approved Category is only for Marathon maps. Long maps with over 6 minutes of draining time fit the Approval category. Only then they are allowed to be single difficulty mapsets. If they are below 6 minutes of draining time, a full difficulty spread is needed and the map will have to be ranked instead.
We leave the above as is, but with an additional exception that reads:

Maps longer than 5 minutes may be considered for approval if they include more than one game mode
This would prevent abuse cases of people ranking single difficulty maps and promote mappers to collaborate or possibly even learn how to map different game modes, and would be an overall improvement for multi-mode sets.

Keep in mind this is just a proposal if we can't come to an agreement regarding the current discussion of 5 minute marathon requirement regardless of mode inclusion.
Actually, this will finally solve problem with "questionable" drain time (5:55, 5:59~.. and also horrible situations when mapper must remove all breaks in map just to achieve approve-able drain time).

But... other game mode? Why?

Not sure about this.
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
karterfreak
As mentioned that compromise is only if we can't come to an agreement on the current rule. I probably shouldn't have even posted it right now as its not the main point of discussion and a different rule suggestion entirely (for the purpose of promoting more multi-mode longer maps)

Guideline works as Ziin pointed out, but it'd be the same as making 5:00 a rule, because most BAT won't break past the 5:00 mark unless extreme circumstances.
Kodora
Kodora
Well, we have diff spread rules here to let people with every skill level enjoy playing songs what they love. But IMO, if we will have 5:00 min mapped song with spread like Insane & Inner Oni, will it be better? I don't think so. Players who don't playing other mods will just ignore second diff.

But, other questions here - do beginners really enjoying playing extremely long maps? Of course, it may be mapped in a lot of different ways, it may be 50 BPM lullabu song mapped in 1/1, but... Playing very long maps is tiring itself, and for this case - does it makes sense to map full spread if people can't enjoy it at all?

5 min is fair reasonable minimum imo. Score calculations can be nice too.
Yuzeyun
7,646 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
Well, I'll throw in my opinion as well for this. Well, time is relative on that thing. 10-minute songs at 75 BPM will be less tedious to map than a 3:35 song at 240 BPM, because that 10-minute long song contains 750 beats, and the 3:35 already contains 860 ! This rule as it is (Hard 6-minute, regardless of amount of beats in the song) may discourage fast-song mappers from making a map for the song itself, because they'll have to map mostly 4 times the beat amount, but for those who want to map a slower song they will be "alright I can do this fast" and not doing as much effort as the fast-song people.

In other words: Approval for marathon should regard the song itself, as well as its duration. As speed increases, the amount of effort required increases as well due to the more beats.

eldnl wrote:

Mapping a single 5 mins difficulty is tiring enough t.t
Having mapped 8 times 4:30 myself I can guarantee you'll not really notice it.
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
Topic Starter
karterfreak

_Gezo_ wrote:

In other words: Approval for marathon should regard the song itself, as well as its duration. As speed increases, the amount of effort required increases as well due to the more beats.
I have to disagree with this statement. Marathon should be explicitly about the time of the map (hence the definition of marathon). What this seems to be more directed at is the old approval where very hard maps could be ranked under approval due to being gimmicky / extremely hard in nature. Bringing approval back isn't what this topic is about, this is specifically about the time requirement for marathon maps. If you have an idea for bringing back approval for harder / gimmicky maps however, feel free to make a rule thread about it.
Kodora
Kodora

_Gezo_ wrote:

Well, I'll throw in my opinion as well for this. Well, time is relative on that thing. 10-minute songs at 75 BPM will be less tedious to map than a 3:35 song at 240 BPM, because that 10-minute long song contains 750 beats, and the 3:35 already contains 860 ! This rule as it is (Hard 6-minute, regardless of amount of beats in the song) may discourage fast-song mappers from making a map for the song itself, because they'll have to map mostly 4 times the beat amount, but for those who want to map a slower song they will be "alright I can do this fast" and not doing as much effort as the fast-song people.

In other words: Approval for marathon should regard the song itself, as well as its duration. As speed increases, the amount of effort required increases as well due to the more beats.
This is pretty much what score of map represents.

By the way

Tasha wrote:

What this seems to be more directed at is the old approval where very hard maps could be ranked under approval due to being gimmicky / extremely hard in nature.
Roughtly, about 20-25 mln is something what "marathon-long" map (5-6 min) will reach anyway .
Dolphin
1,167 posts
Joined January 2012
Dolphin
I've only skimmed the thread so far so please do yell at me if I missed a vital point. ;;

But for my input on this;
I think it should be reduced to 5:00 or at least 5:30 because of what Tasha said, foremost.
If this is out of the question, I think the number of difficulties in the spread could be reduced for 5 minute maps to a 2-diff spread (H+I/N+H etc)
That way it won't tire out mapper nor modder, although I would prefer the former option.
Reducing it down to less than 5:00 is overkill. Way too many vocal songs span over the length of 4:30, it's a common length for vocal songs from what I see.
But its less common to see any kind of song span 5:00~6:00. I've barely seen any, honestly, except for those "Long Version" remixes from OSTs and such.
xxbidiao
450 posts
Joined November 2008
xxbidiao
As a passer-by from osu!mania, I have to point out that any kind of marathons is not for beginners... Or to say, they are born to be pro maps.

On _Gezo_ 's reply, I don't know how osu! standard mapping take care of low BPMs, but in osu!mania, mapping a less than 100 BPM song usually means lots of 1/8 or even 1/12 and it doesn't simplify the work needed to map it.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
If anything I'd be more willing to raise the time length limit than to lower, Marathons really should be Marathons =/ and that's like what, 10 minutes usually?
Natteke
6,538 posts
Joined August 2009
Natteke

Sakura wrote:

If anything I'd be more willing to raise the time length limit than to lower, Marathons really should be Marathons =/ and that's like what, 10 minutes usually?
Enjoy mapping 3-4 difficulties for a 6 min song. Oh wait, this is coming from a person whose average map length is no longer than a minute and a half. So really you don't have a say in this.

This map took me around 8-10 hours to make, that's just a single difficulty. Multiply that by, say, 3 — we get almost 30 hours of mapping. 30 hours! Then try to add up the time it takes to mod such a monstrosity, I'm not even mentioning the fact that most people would nope.jpg when they get asked to mod such a map. What would the options be? Drop the mapset? So what's the point?

I actually agree with ziin on this:

"Guideline it to 5-6 drain minutes as the cutoff. Maps in this range can be approved or ranked up to the mapper's discretion."
Last edited by Natteke , edited 1 time in total.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
I said this before in #modhelp and I'll say it again, I'm already too lazy to map anything more than 2:30 minute songs, and I think that goes the same for a lot of people. However I like to play long marathons. Doesn't feel right to be playing a 6 minute marathon, let alone a 5 minute one. I agree with Sakura in the fact the requirement should be raised rather than lowered.

This is already a large time investment for both a mapper to create and for a modder to give a quality mod on.
We shouldn't be making suggestions to improve the life of the mapper, the mapper should be improving the life of the player. If it is a large time investment for you, then don't attempt to make one. There will always be one mapper out there that will make one in your place.

Map quality could see a possible increase with mods on longer maps being more detailed due to there being less difficulties in the set. There is less potential for things to be missed as well, as the 2 BAT approval requirement would ensure less mistakes in the set.
While this could be true, marathons are usually made by more skilled and experienced mappers, meaning there should be fewer mistakes. Securing mods isn't an issue, you can always find people that are willing to look at your map. (If your mapping something like this, you should have connections anyways right?) The double BAT approval system still works well as a fail safe.

From a mappers standpoint, this is a great idea. From a typical player's view, I personally do not like the change. Oh well not like I know what I'm talking about anyways \o/
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Maybe make the total mapped time has to be over X to get the map ranked?

If you make something like "you must map at least 5 minutes" you could solve this. To make this clear with an example:

3:30 minutes long song. 3:30 + 3:30 = 7 minutes, therefore you can get it ranked with just two difficulties.
2:00 minutes long song. 2+2+2 = 6 minutes, meaning to get this mapset ranked you need at least three difficulties.

This should of course apply to each game mod, you can't just add osu!mania with standard.

Of course this kind of gets tricky with, for instance, a 4:30 minutes long song. You could get this ranked with a full insane diff and some normal which only plays for half the song or something but I don't know.

Just dropping the idea.
Liiraye
1,354 posts
Joined December 2011
Liiraye
I was just about to map a 5min 45 sec long map with the mindset that it won't get ranked or approved, because I cba to make at least 2 more diffs for it. Then someone linked this thread to me. If this was to be passed I'd be much more motivated to make a great map. It's rediculous that a map at 6 min with 5min 30sec draintime and a taiko diff can be approved but not a map with the same draintime but longer lenght. The system makes no sense imo.

Good points have been brought up. I still have to agree that lowering the draintime to 5 min (allowing people not to stress and cut corners with making pauses) would be a great idea.

If you look from my perspective: I will map this song because I love the it and I want it spread in osu, but unless the average is lowered I will never get this ranked.
Isn't it better to have 1 approved diff than none at all?


Edit: Also, who would play an almost 6 minute long easy/normal? I guarantee you not many would appreciate it.
Last edited by Liiraye , edited 1 time in total.
Cloudchaser
2,327 posts
Joined May 2012
Cloudchaser

Liiraye wrote:

I was just about to map a 5min 45 sec long map with the mindset that it won't get ranked or approved, because I cba to make at least 2 more diffs for it. Then someone linked this thread to me. If this was to be passed I'd be much more motivated to make a great map. It's rediculous that a map at 6 min with 5min 30sec draintime and a taiko diff can be approved but not a map with the same draintime but longer lenght. The system makes no sense imo.

Good points have been brought up. I still have to agree that lowering the draintime to 5 min (allowing people not to stress and cut corners with making pauses) would be a great idea.

If you look from my perspective: I will map this song because I love the it and I want it spread in osu, but unless the average is lowered I will never get this ranked.
Isn't it better to have 1 approved diff than none at all?
Indeed
Alarido
1,744 posts
Joined September 2012
Alarido
I wanted many marathons with an easier diff than the extreme - what could be a singletappable hard orz...made by another mapper (a guest diff).

The rule would be raised to 10 min., allowing anything on the 5-9:59 realm to be ranked or approved in discretion of mapper itself, perhaps assisted by a Bat..
MeraMiPoP_old
155 posts
Joined October 2013
MeraMiPoP_old
I think a 5min Insane / 2min short ver Easy/Normal should be pretty nice
Liiraye
1,354 posts
Joined December 2011
Liiraye
Not all mappers are machines without lives. Remember that people map because they think it's fun. Making multiple long easier diffs takes away the fun of it and makes it more of a job than anything else. Finding guest diffs and mods for 3x 5-6 min diffs... Good luck with that also.

Like I said, I'll map because I think it's fun, but the second i have to treat mapping as a second job I'll drop it. It's up to you guys who make the rules to choose if you want yet another graveyarded map or an approved one.

Until then I'll keep making long maps for my own enjoyment and not submit them/ placing them in grave.
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