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Osu! Scandinavian Tournament 2014! Winners: Xytox & Gnuu

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boat
There's loads of variables (which everyone are very well aware of) and the only option we got to reduce the the delay is by offsetting the streams. The resolution and encode settings are more so for everything to be stable and run smoothly, there's zero reason for streaming in 1080p when it's going to be downscaled to roughly 400x400px. Client side hiccups matter as well, drop some frames and you'll have to offset it again.
iaceo
Just trying to sound like i know what I'm on about here so i get to be involved \o
after all i don't know who to bribe...
Muzakashi
Would it help if everyone connects to the same Twitch.tv server? I'm currently set to stream to London. Would the one in Stockholm be more convenient?
iaceo
Probably a bit, ive been using the NL one myself..
No idea on how to approach the actual osu client though, loading times there depend on who you're watching and their connection as well as the osu server(s), and your CPU.. and (maybe, i doubt this one) their CPU (and i doubt multiplayer matches are completly simultanous, feels odd when you play tag at least)

I have experienced instances speccing people who are lagging.. and they write to me after they are done with the song as i have like a minute worth of gameplay left :9 (This person was playing using a phone for modem so i will point all the blame on him for this)

Osu itself is probably the biggest factor of the lot when it comes to sync..

But i havn't looked into that stuff so this is all just speculation..
boat
Listing these factors doesn't change anything as we can neither alter the osu! client itself nor can you run multiple instances of it on one machine (and even if you could you're not allowed more than one account. If they can't let us have the stream client, chances are they wont allow us to make dummy accounts for something like this either).

I don't think anyone is expecting this to be flawless, and the final will be streamed on the official stream anyhow.
iaceo
But listing them breaks down the problem.. So far its been deduced that people can connect to the same twitch server which should give some improvement :)
No harm in it at least (except swamping this thread in... perhaps not entirely relevant posts.. if it is supposed to be about tournament gameplay and participation)

Perhaps someone can come up with a nifty plan for reducing the client differentials as well ;d
As mentioned.. im clueless there.. are there different osu! servers and can you affect to where you connect? and would it even matter?
boat
Unless you insist on investing in four identical PCs dedicated for streaming, you're out of luck. Factors such as network connections (and everything in between) and differences in processing power can not be altered and thus all of these differentials don't matter.

The only options we got are:
A: Do our best to offset everything and pray for the better
B: Assassinate Kriers and steal the stream client

An alternative would be to ditch the >live< aspect, have everyone save their replays (or continuously record the players throughout the matches) and compile a video manually. The upside is that everything will be in perfect sync and there would be no need to worry about cheesy improvised commentating. The downside however, is that it would require immense amounts of tedious work, and of course be delayed by however long it would take (a couple of hours after each match I imagine, if somebody really puts a lot of effort into it) but it is an option and honestly an option to consider.

I don't know about you but I'd prefer a continuous video rather than the boring crap a tournament stream is.
iaceo
I'm just trying to help out with ideas and input on what can be done within a reasonable amount of effort and without any cost.
Basically option A but think it can be controlled more, i dislike praying for success.

If this is not welcome and will warrant comments such as that im insinuating that all streamers and players should get identical computers and then respectively use the same line, then i will drop this subject. That is not what im striving for here.

If you offset it once at the beginning, let's say everything is perfect
1. You will have minor differences when going into spectate mode, loading times and how quickly you connect to someone
2. Let's say osu hiccups during the play. Ok, you will fall behind for the rest of the song.. It will still resolve itself as the song ends and you loop back to the point where the offset was perfect. Rinse repeat 1,2
These two i don't see what you can do about. It's basically about finding as good and responsive connection to the servers as possible.

Then there is the twitch side.
1. Twitch..... its not fluent..
It's as far as i know, entirely possible to fall further and further behind here.. At least it used to be. Especially fun with marathon streams where you could have huge delays.. which you noticed once you refreshed the stream (oh, ingame timer jumped ahead X minutes.. what did i miss?)

If you're offsetting by pausing the streams then syncing them up there might be a bit of a buffer but heck im not certain stuff will be moving forward at the same speed. Thus, connecting to the same servers and experience a more similar process might help. (If this is still an issue, i dont watch as many streams nowadays)

And i still don't see why the computer is relevant.. The encoding as far as i know is done live so why would the offset change during the stream due to your computer?


Now;
I still dont know too much about this kind of stuff, im just trying to help. Thus this all is rather vague and im not delving deep into it.
If i am wrong anywhere, do point out specifics and provide explanations.. I hate spending time on matters and then being seemingly ignored.

If there is no interest in trying to tune the stream up more. Then I shal perish the thought.
Kotayo
for now let's see if we can find enough streamers and then do the fine tuning with them instead of listing all the problems here when we already know of all them
if it doesn't work then we'll drop the stream

boat's idea of a video will probably look more professional but i feel it would need even more work than a stream so i'm too high on the idea of trying to make a video
boat
Ultimately I'm not actually in charge of anything really, but do consider the idea as it's a bit more work for a substantially better result. And you could just get the four people who would otherwise be streaming to instead just record it, that's half of the work done right there.
iaceo
The problems had only been mentioned as "offset, latency and sync" in this thread. No one is yet to leave any impression on me that they knew what the cause is or cared enough to explain.

Your date is also set three weeks from now, with christmas in the middle of it all. Going in with mindset of leaving it for later I predict nothing will be done over it with the excuse "i was busy over the holidays".

So, the thought has been perished.

Best of luck with videos (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
CXu
@iaceo: I'm pretty sure that people in charge of doing something usually is aware of the limitations and why they're caused. It's probably not that your posts are unappreciated, but that they don't help solving the problems.
Kotayo

CXu wrote:

@iaceo: I'm pretty sure that people in charge of doing something usually is aware of the limitations and why they're caused. It's probably not that your posts are unappreciated, but that they don't help solving the problems.
thank you CXu

and regarding the holidays concern...i am not going anywhere during holidays except for maybe one day for christmas and new year
other than that i'll be home and available for the duration of holiday and working on the streaming if we have the people required for it
iaceo
Previous post came out rather harsh. For that i am sorry and i can only say i got annoyed about the subject being talked "around" while no thought whatsoever seemed to be spared for what i wrote.. Im also rather tired after being at "lucia movie night" which likely doesnt help nor is it an excuse.

It's just that nothing much is said over stream settings:
  • resolution
    framerate

So basically its just about how it should look. With stuff being at this level why do i have to assume that people know more than me, explain yourselves properly.

And while we're on the subject of how things look.
The encoding matters as well.
and OBs offers up video filter settings (for what tracing to use)

As _-[Sakai-kun]-_ asked, connecting to the same twitch servers.
That might also help and it takes no effort at all to decide on one. (i wrote quite a bit on this one in my previous posts, so in my opinion there is something written in them. The fact that none seem to agree with that yet offer no response to it, that is what i find annoying.)


Concerning the holidays concern (<-- i find that sentence hilarious); You will still be working with streamers or looking for streamers who might be away over the holidays.
Kotayo
right now i want to find streamers so we can THEN decide on servers and stuff for optimisation. optimising without having ppl to check with seems very pointless to me
regarding the "going around the issue" i'm mostly doing that right now because i'm currently in school and don't have time to think about it right now.
i'll look over all of this when i get home and answer what questions i feel need answering
Nyari
im pretty sure, as the "main streamer" you're supposed to answer all or most the questions that people ask about positions in the "lower ranks" of streamers.


anyhow im drawing myself out of the streaming thing since my internet goes potato mode every 5 minutes
Kotayo
so i'm home now

regarding the stream i know more or less EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM that might occur doing this, it doesn't matter if it's with osu or twitch or with the streamers themselves so please don't post ANYTHING about potentiall problems since we're already well aware of them

regarding whatever settings the streamers will use: i will be using these







or something alike those

the streamers should use similar settings except for Max bitrate (Maximal bithastighet) which i'd say you should have on 500kb/s or something
and then the resolution which only needs to be 500x500 or whatever boats stream page i'll be using to restream puts them in

these settings can all be discussed more later when we have enough streamers, with those streamers that volunteer for this

NONE OF THESE SETTINGS ARE FINALIZED
but now you atleast have a more clear look at what about you would need to be able to stream

and if iaceo decides to come back and help with streaming i will be very grateful for his help


EDIT

if there are further questions then please pm me ingame instead of making this topic into a rage war of misunderstandings
Mara
You guys sure that you won't get the client? Seems like japanese got it for OETW.
Xytox

Mara wrote:

You guys sure that you won't get the client? Seems like japanese got it for OETW.
I noticed that. But maybe it's just because it's so popular or something. I mean, steady 800 viewers is probably a few more than we'll be able to get. Although, the advertising on osu's main menu probably brings at least 70% of those views.
Topic Starter
Liiraye
Quick update about the spectator client


I have contacted Loctav about this, apparently the client is more flexible now and ready for use (which was not the case when we asked earlier). Having that said, I was encouraged to contact Peppy myself as the organizers of the OETW did. Right now I'm waiting for a mail back from Peppy, hopefully it will work out.
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