Well, when the turnament is about 4 teams, you can actually postpone it without harm.

We can play semi-finals next week, all of them. Of course if fits other teams and streamers.

JappyBabes wrote:

cptnXn wrote:

typical Loctav actions + reasoning, its the same when i talk to him about hackers, hes just like "an apparently correct accusation is still an accusation"

interesting coming from you :^)

Shots fired.

There are various reasons to reject any postponing.
Despite the management being absent on specific times (which isn't the main reason) and the demand of peppy to not even ask anyone about "when do you want to play", postponings are very critical compared to "agreed scheduling before schedule release"

The issue lies in the postponing self, not in the agreement. Usually teams arrange themselves with a scheduled time, but if I postpone a match (even if both team captains accept), a huge bunch of confusion can happen.
A little example (let's use Poland and taiwan. Keep in mind that this happened like 15 times in last owc because of postponings and bad captainship, not because of my stubborn thinking):
1. Taiwan wishes to schedule on Saturday. Poland is unable to give proper times. Match gets scheduled on Saturday
2. Every taiwanese player arranges with Saturday. Usually they are not online during the week. They just took a look at the schedule once and plan to reappear on Saturday.
3. Poland requests postponing. Captains agree on it. Taiwan is nice and says yes. But Taiwan has a hard time getting players there. Also they have a way worse communication structure than Poland or something. Captain is unable to tell the players the new times. Even if he is able to do so, some might not comprehend, get confused, or forget about the time change
4. On the actual match, Taiwan has to play with 4 backups or not with ideal setup because the postponing AFTER SCHEDULE RELEASE caused a huge confusion. Poland gets an unfair advantage here, considering that they were also able to play on the original scheduled time without a proper roster but with 4 players.

Question: is that fair? I can understand that you want to play with ideal setup. The issue doesn't lie in the Sunday self. I have time on Sunday. Everyone of the management has time there. The biggest issue is, that the postponing happens after schedule release. You are simply too late. Any postponing in a short time frame causes confusion, considering the big rosters of everyone and the fact that many captains do empty promises when it comes to communicating with their team.
I am not saying that Poland or taiwan have bad captains or something, but the caused risk to an unfair mess for a team after the postponing is too high, especially on this stage.

(Let's not mention that postponing is also unfair to UK and Korea and all other teams that played before and maybe went through some shit, too - to make their match happen, instead of playing the drama card)

It's easy to blame me for issues that are on a wide spread side of issues. The demand of peppy to never ask the captains again is a result of the above story, which happened dozens of times during last owc.
And no, the last year's mess wasn't caused by us. It was caused by the urgent need of every team to postpone matches five times a week. Yes, we were inexperienced. But we learned from it. We adjusted the rules. Also I need to be neutral. This means that I disagree with skipping the ruleset for someone asking for it. Everyone needs to be treated the same.
And I see no reason why I should allow Poland a postponing with high risks, when I was not accepting any postponings so far. I must consider risk and gain.

Yet I will try to see, what I can do. I already asked around yesterday, rejecting the request for now, even tho I would postpone it if there would be any guarantee that this doesn't cause issues. But this is impossible.

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

As to clear out how we were fooled by Loctie (1st of farto's long paragraphs).

Basically, we were waiting for the schedule peacefully because Loctav said the matches would be on Sunday. And then suddenly fk Poland, Saturday, without notifying us. And since it was already scheduled, we couldn't change it


"I've changed my mind"

oh, I need to post the pic outside of quotes to make it more visible, my bad

Loctav wrote:

The biggest issue is, that the postponing happens after schedule release. You are simply too late.

.

Sounds pretty bs in my opinion, but what can I say...

Loctav wrote:

I have time on Sunday. Everyone of the management has time there. The biggest issue is, that the postponing happens after schedule release. You are simply too late.

You know in military, an organization which is extremely strict about orders and times/schedules, we had a word for people who were too stubborn to change their mind and adapt to the situation to get optimal results simply because other things were decided earlier.



It was "stupid".



This tournament is for the players. Excuse me for being so direct but stop being an idiot and get your priorities straight, the #1 priority should be to give the players the best playing conditions possible and adapt to whatever real life issues arise for them at any time to ensure that this event which only happens once a year becomes a good experience for all parties involved. Stop walking with your face into the wall.

@Ciunek clearly lacks of context, lol. I explained stuff further later on.

@Aqo you should read the whole post

I did read the whole post, don't assume I didn't just because I didn't choose to quote every single part of it.

I don't know the English word for this term but you need to work on your ability to adapt. I have run several online tournaments in the past (for fighting games) and know perfectly well how frustrating arranging times is and how things can get postponed, but if you don't do your very best to adapt to the players until the very last moment then you're doing a terrible job as a tournament organizer and the whole tournament is bad because of it.

If you would have read it, you would have understood that it is not my incapability to adapt.

No, it's definitely your inability to adapt and fear of stuff that happened in the past like long postponing.

What you should do is talk to both Taiwan and Poland team members and decide on a later time that will be convenient for both, doing it properly while both teams talk to each other. Delay the whole thing as much as needed and if you just let people talk to each other I'm sure it won't take longer than a week. The whole thing wouldn't have happened from the beginning if you just let people talk to each other more instead of making communications difficult. The teams don't need a third man to organize times for them, they can do it themselves. People who were playing for the entire year and waited for this wouldn't mind waiting a little longer to make sure everybody gets to play on their best shape, and I'm sure everybody else would like to see that too.

Stop using slogans like 'this can cause issues'. The biggest possible issue that can happen in a tournament, an event made purely for the players, is players getting screwed over. Your utmost highest priority should be to avoid this happening.

Considering that there are also other world cups in preparation, a postponing by a week is not possible. The tournament schedule was released on registration phase already. And we are not planning to change it.

Stuff is easier said than done. It's easy in your position to say "just do it, what's wrong with it", but I am not naive.
Also not asking the players is a quite dumb accusation. Taking a look on many many tournaments (UScup, OWC#2, even OWC#3) shows the issue in captains handling schedules.

Also postponing by a week is an unfair procedure considering the mappool practice time. Considering that all mappools gave you one week to be practiced, postponing all matches by 1 week give this pool 2 weeks, which is rather screwing the equality of the stages.

My utmost highest priority are fair and standardized matches. And I don't consider it as fair (in the great whole) to allow a single team better condition than others. The players are the focus. But not the polish players alone. All players are. Even those being kicked out already.

And you guys are probably the first blaming me for a messed up match because of an unattendance of taiwanese players. The so so called 'slogan' is no empty phrase. I clearly filled it with content and defined the issue (inability to adapt to postponed times from player sides, unfair treatment among others, giving advantages to one team)

I'm looking at farto's post and it doesn't seem to me like communication was handled properly.

Don't make up unrelated reasons like map practice times. Players on this level don't need more than 15 minutes to get familiar with a map, anything from there is their own play level which they have built over all this time and it won't change drastically in a week.

And thinking about stuff like teams who were kicked out at this point is what I mean with bad adaptation. I wasn't following this owc and didn't see how things went from the start, I'm sure there are things that could have gone better differently, but you should focus on how to make the best out of what you have right now instead of repeating mistakes you did in the past just because "that's what we did earlier".

If you want matches to be fair, let the teams talk to each other and decide on a time that they feel is fair for them. This is what should've been done from the start.

Just because Rucker and fartownik agreed to something, it doesn't guarantee that this won't cause issues to the taiwanese team now - in case of a postponing.
You still didn't understand the core problem or where the unfairness lies - or more like, why the change is now not possible because of the nature of postponings.


Suggesting captain-arranged times only shows that you didn't see what was going on on every tournament that was done like this.

How about you ask the entire teams what they think about it instead of only team captains?
I'm not saying it should necessarily be on either Saturday or Sunday, I'm saying you have a serious communication problem right now and instead of working on resolving it you're making it worse.

Stop sticking your head in the mud of past events and -go and talk to people right now-. Go online and try to catch as many players from each team, ask them what they think, put them in a chat together and let them talk, ask them how and when to contact people who were offline or unreachable at the time, over the course of 2 days (especially now that it's the weekend) get to contact everybody and resolve this issue by letting everybody talk and agree on things together, instead of acting like talking is pointless and giving people the message that they should just deal with robotics decisions that are obsolete of logic.

Considering the availability of every team member, this doesn't guarantee a good outcome. Especially when it comes to players with poor English skills or those who never check their pm folder.
(Asians aren't very famous for their brilliant English)

Experiences aren't empty value. There are clear reasons why stuff is done the way it is.
Repeating the same error over and over again isn't very helpful.

Stop making things up, the Taiwan team speaks English well enough to understand you and reply, and is definitely available for chatting. The statuses for players show they were all active in recent hours (I messaged Rucker 2 days ago completely randomly and he instantly answered. <3 ) Same thing for Poland team, it's absolutely not difficult to reach and talk to at least most of the team.

At this point it sounds like you're just being lazy and looking for ways to throw the blame on others instead of doing your job as a tourney organizer.

At this point you just want to blame me no matter what for something that can not be helped or where risks are too high.
I won't take risks of that size in this stage anymore.
The match will not be postponed due to previously explained reasons. If you disagree, feel free. But I actually prioritize the fairness of a whole tournament.

What risks? holy shit you're just making things up to be lazy and not do the things that a tourney organizer is actually supposed to be doing. I've seen irc/imageboard tournaments being organized better than this

I feel bad for the players who waited an entire year for this

You should read what I wrote. Screw your bias among me, since it's spoiling your view

What bias

find one person who thinks the current tourney organization is fine and that the teams are getting fair treatment

i wonder if there will be any games played LOL

Is captain just the empty title? Captains should be responsible enough to coummunicate with their own teammates and states like "other players could have problems with playing after postponing" shouldnt be considered. If captain agreed without considering his teammates' availability it is his own fault. Questioning every possibilty (which belongs to captain's duties) will lead to thoughts like "maybe he is too shy and acutally he dont want to postpone"

@edit
also what's the problem with one week more of preparations? Its not that UK or Korea gonna play vs Poland/Taiwan on these maps. If both Taiwan and Poland will get same time this shouldnt be problem.

More moe posts in this thread pls!

[-Aoi-] wrote:

also what's the problem with one week more of preparations? Its not that UK or Korea gonna play vs Poland/Taiwan on these maps. If both Taiwan and Poland will get same time this shouldnt be problem.

^ agree

I've had experience with bad communitcations once when planning for a big test for other people so I understand the possibility of the other teams having misunderstandings. I'd say the best way would be to postpone it by at least a week (not this saturday nor this sunday) so that the captains are given adequate time to inform everyone. From then on it will be the captains responsibility to ensure that everyone has the correct dates and time.

That's all..

From what I understand, fartownik actually told you beforehand that they were unable to play on Saturday, and in the end, they were scheduled on Saturday anyway without prior notice. You're talking about fairness, but the scheduling already made this unfair (not that it was put on Saturday, but that they weren't aware until it was "too late to postpone"). And lets face it, captains are very capable of managing their team. If they weren't, your schedule wouldn't work because the captains wouldn't contact their roster, and half the team wouldn't show up. You're basically insulting every captain in this tournament right now. Just look at farto, and tell me if he's doing a good job as a captain or not atm.
I seriously doubt that Taiwan would agree to postponing the match, if they weren't sure if they could get their main rooster.

And Loctav, you know. Instead of posting tons of excuses here and wasting time, why don't you actually speak to both captains to resolve the issue? Instead of outright refusing it and being stubborn, talk with the captains and come to an agreement.

-Kamui- wrote:

More moe posts in this thread pls!

>w<

fartownik's initial statement was, that they can not play on this entire weekend (including Sunday).
Every statement about "Let's play Sunday" Was after schedule release.

Also why is everyone implying that I am not trying to talk to everyone from Taiwan first? Why are you assuming so much? It's not like I can't post here and talk to people meanwhile . I already said that I will see what I can do, but for now you should consider the request as rejected.

-Kamui- wrote:

More moe posts in this thread pls!

will you be my friend??? >w<

We're assuming it (or well, I am) because you're arguing to Aqo about how talking to the teams in a chat would be futile, saying the problem lies in the fact that there may be empty promises if you ask team captains, etc. etc. These are "what if" situations, so of course I'm going to assume you haven't actually spoken to them.

Well, if you're actually trying to resolve the issue, then that's fine.
Do remember the purpose of OWC though: it's to find the best country in the world at playing osu!

Edit: Yea I read farto's post wrong. He did say he couldn't play this weekend at all. This doesn't change the fact that you just "changed your mind". If postponing by a week wasn't possible, I bet Poland would to everything in their power to be able to play during the weekend. If you said Sunday, then that's when they're going to try and get their players to be available. If you then change it to Saturday without notice (and because you "changed your mind"), then that's still a fault on your part for miscommunication.

It's not like it's a real life tournament when everyone gathers in a hall or something to do stuff for a weekend
Make an exception. Or the whole thing about OWC will be ruined
Infact the idea of organizators choosing times for teams to play is just bad I'd say. Captains are pretty capable of doing that by themselves cause they most likely know when the team is available or not (unless something happens)
Some timelimit for postponing is needed yeah, and that would be enough.

CXu wrote:

Edit: Yea I read farto's post wrong. He did say he couldn't play this weekend at all. This doesn't change the fact that you just "changed your mind". If postponing by a week wasn't possible, I bet Poland would to everything in their power to be able to play during the weekend. If you said Sunday, then that's when they're going to try and get their players to be available. If you then change it to Saturday without notice (and because you "changed your mind"), then that's still a fault on your part for miscommunication.

The gap between "I plan to do it on Sunday" and actually putting it on Saturday was like... 2 hours? Also since when is a "plan" a promise? I didnt promise anything. It's not like I said "it will be on Sunday, guaranteed". I aimed for Sunday first, but this didnt work out, so I changed my mind and put it on Saturday.
This "fault" is not a fault, since you do not know the context properly. It's ridiculous to say that "they prepared everything for Sunday then" when the actual schedule release and the "not-so-promised-promise" were like 2 hours apart from each other.

-Kamui- for most moe player of OWC 2013

To clarify, we discussed a bit, I also talked to Uan and CXu and some others and they actually agree with certain points about what I consider as fair and unfair:

I can understand that Poland wants to play with ideal setup. Postponing the match results in Poland being able to play ideally. But postponing also results in Taiwan not being able to play ideally anymore. (SnowWhite can't play on Sunday for example, Uan is very limited here, too, might leave during match or something). Postponing the match now would be not neutral anymore, since I would give an advantage to Poland over Taiwan.

You might say "but you preferred Taiwan in the scheduling from the very beginning". Actually, this only happened because fartownik was unable to give times. If fartownik would've stated "Sunday pls" from the very beginning, I might have arranged it. But Taiwan was instantly claiming Saturday and Poland was like "next week pls" (which is impossible to do).
So I made the schedule like it is now, telling that "Next week is not possible".

Always consider that Poland is ABLE TO PLAY on Saturday, just not with ideal setup. (from what fartownik told me all the time)

why is this guy still in charge of owc anyway

xsrsbsns wrote:

why is this guy still in charge of owc anyway

Because I make it happen.

No matches are being postponed.

NO OTHER COMPETITION ON EARTH decides final times around players. We are no exception. It was *my* decision to disallow postponing/user scheduling this tournament. I am sponsoring the tournament. So no postponing.

Be there, or don't, and disappoint your fans, audience, and tournament staff.

Thread reopened! Good luck to all teams for the matches today .

Good luck.

And please, let's try to avoid anything that could start a drama again.

When will the stats sheet be updated?

Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results

Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?

Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.

Marcin wrote:

Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results

Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?

Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.

Alright, fair enough thanks.