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illegal to alternate with 3 fingers?

posted
Total Posts
21
shovelspan
13 posts
Joined November 2019
Topic Starter
shovelspan
asking in forums because i cant find an answer to this anywhere else

From the rules:
"Using third-party utilities of any kind to get any sort of advantage is not okay. This includes things like macro programs, aim-assist programs, timescale modification, and so on. If a program is doing something to help you play the game that you should be doing yourself, it isn't okay!".

I don't believe a program to remap (lets say your c button) to mouse2 would be bannable as it doesnt really help you play the game, its not like a macro or anything.

(If a program is doing something to help you play the game that you should be doing yourself, it isn't okay!".)
Would I get banned for alternating with 3 fingers?
heg-
64 posts
Joined April 2020
heg-
why would you want to play with 3 fingers
Last edited by heg- , edited 1 time in total.
shovelspan
13 posts
Joined November 2019
Topic Starter
shovelspan

antonio417 wrote:

why the hell would you want to play with 3 fingers is my concern
450bpm streams possible??? ez pp
MrSparklepants
1,132 posts
Joined November 2017
MrSparklepants
This is really a "gray area" but I believe you won't get banned for alternating with 3 keys (or the program), but it's going to be pretty hard to pull off mainly because of
1. Muscle memory
2. Finger Control
3. if you're pressing K2 and you press M2 (which you'll presumably rebind to another key) M2 isn't going to register until K2 is unpressed

This isn't to say that there aren't players who in fact do use 3 keys to play as some clickx and tapx players do actually use 3 "keys" to play (who's to say there isn't some madman out there on a mouse who uses all 4 keys). But fully alternating is a completely different story.
Last edited by MrSparklepants , edited 2 times in total.
Kolmas
556 posts
Joined March 2020
Kolmas

shovelspan wrote:

antonio417 wrote:

why the hell would you want to play with 3 fingers is my concern
450bpm streams possible??? ez pp
people will just play with ez mod and triple/quad tap i guess
Franchouchou
85 posts
Joined May 2018
Franchouchou
No it's not. In fact, osu lazer have 4 keys for you to click on.

As the rules mentioned above, the use of those programs are the only ones that get you banned. But playing with 3 buttons with normal direct input isn't a cheat at all.

You are welcome to try though.
shovelspan
13 posts
Joined November 2019
Topic Starter
shovelspan

Franchouchou wrote:

No it's not. In fact, osu lazer have 4 keys for you to click on.

As the rules mentioned above, the use of those programs are the only ones that get you banned. But playing with 3 buttons with normal direct input isn't a cheat at all.

You are welcome to try though.
lol keyboard drivers dont count i bet i can use that

edit: i didnt expect this much attention from this reply lol i shouldve written this comment more obvious as a joke
Last edited by shovelspan , edited 1 time in total.
THAT_otaku
Global Moderator
3,919 posts
Joined February 2018
THAT_otaku
Keyboard drivers are 3rd party software to osu!.

The community rules clearly state that you may not use any 3rd party software to give you an advantage over other players. Honestly you will struggle with 3 fingers, but in theory it could give you an advantage. I wouldn't use anything to rebind keys to give you more clickable keys in-game if I were you.

Franchouchou wrote:

No it's not. In fact, osu lazer have 4 keys for you to click on.
While this is true, Lazer has them built in . Rebinding keys with software outside of osu! is not the same thing.

Please reframe from discussing cheating on the forums, unless I suppose to discourage it lol.
Last edited by THAT_otaku , edited 3 times in total.
rematyar
1,313 posts
Joined November 2020
rematyar

THAT_otaku wrote:

Keyboard drivers are 3rd party software to osu!.

The community rules clearly state that you may not use any 3rd party software to give you an advantage over other players. Honestly you will struggle with 3 fingers, but in theory it could give you an advantage. I wouldn't use anything to rebind keys to give you more clickable keys in-game if I were you.
I agree with this.

If you want to use 3 fingers, doesn't that means you want to play the game "easier"?
And almost all osu players only using 2 fingers. If you want to use 3 fingers to stream 400+ bpm, that counts as an unfair advantage.
Last edited by rematyar , edited 1 time in total.
7ambda
2,560 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda
lol it won't help you
Schwiftyy
3 posts
Joined May 2021
Schwiftyy
I'm a noob but imo the only thing 3 fingers would be useful for are bursts
tbh alternating between 2 fingers is faster than 3 fingers I think.
megalapin
35 posts
Joined February 2021
megalapin
why would you even try this kind of thing.
shovelspan
13 posts
Joined November 2019
Topic Starter
shovelspan
damn
Voidedosu
2,621 posts
Joined June 2016
Voidedosu

Pararunten wrote:

THAT_otaku wrote:

Keyboard drivers are 3rd party software to osu!.

The community rules clearly state that you may not use any 3rd party software to give you an advantage over other players. Honestly you will struggle with 3 fingers, but in theory it could give you an advantage. I wouldn't use anything to rebind keys to give you more clickable keys in-game if I were you.
I agree with this.

If you want to use 3 fingers, doesn't that means you want to play the game "easier"?
And almost all osu players only using 2 fingers. If you want to use 3 fingers to stream 400+ bpm, that counts as an unfair advantage.
That's a really stupid argument.

One, the game may be "easier" in the long run because you have more fingers to play with, but unless you start playing with this mindset you'd have to basically start from scratch (even if for a short time) to get the muscle memory down, and then work your way back up to the same level as when you played with only two fingers.

Two, the idea that three fingers is an "unfair advantage" is laughable if we're only talking about using what's already provided by the game or with permissible re-bindings. If someone can rebind to play three-finger with, say z/x/c and pull off plays at the same level as the best while still adhering to the rules, why would your first thought be "it's totally unfair how he gets to use one extra finger" as opposed to "Wow, he's using a completely different but legit playstyle and is taking off with it, how amazing is that?" Like, seriously, what? What kind of mindset is that?

Hell, if he wanted to figure out how to play with four keys via one hand and one foot, be impressed, not pissed. Or I guess feel free to be salty if you think your two-finger playstyle is at risk of dying out or something.

HOnestly, shovel, if you want to try this, I'm all for your experiment. From what I can tell you can just re-bind M1 or M2 to c or something like that, and you'd be fine. And if you can make it work for you, all the better. Don't let them discourage you from trying, just from using a 3rd party to achieve your goal.
[LS]PositoniX
634 posts
Joined June 2018
[LS]PositoniX
i don't remember where, but ppy himself had stated that using this by hardware or software manipulation is against the rules. it is considered cheating as you're giving yourself an unfair advantage that was not build into the game.

the only legal way to use "3 way alternation" is with tapx, or if you're a mouse player, combining the keyboard and the mouse buttons. i tried this myself in the past though and it's really difficult and requires tons of coordination between your hands.

I don't believe a program to remap (lets say your c button) to mouse2 would be bannable as it doesnt really help you play the game, its not like a macro or anything.
hypothetically, it would, because it increases the amount of inputs you can enter from 2 keys to 3. the game only lets you use 2, and any more than that is cheating.
THAT_otaku
Global Moderator
3,919 posts
Joined February 2018
THAT_otaku

Voidedosu wrote:

That's a really stupid argument.
It is not an argument, it is the rules of the game. You are welcome to go against them, but have fun being restricted.

[LS]PositoniX puts it very well^^
witchhunted
300 posts
Joined March 2015
witchhunted
idk if the rules had changed since then but wario 3 keys tapping scores on hidamaris are still there, and also there was a ppy's statement regarding this 2-3 years ago I suppose.
Last edited by witchhunted , edited 1 time in total.
Voidedosu
2,621 posts
Joined June 2016
Voidedosu

THAT_otaku wrote:

Voidedosu wrote:

That's a really stupid argument.
It is not an argument, it is the rules of the game. You are welcome to go against them, but have fun being restricted.

[LS]PositoniX puts it very well^^
I didn't realize I couldn't play with z/x/M1/M2 all this time. Guess I should throw out the hypothetical 4-key playstyle because the four buttons actually available for use are somehow only legal if you use half of them <_<.

Sarcasm aside, yes it is stupid. And please note I specified doing so legally. Playing with both keyboard keys and a mouse button is perfectly legal, as would be playing with z/x/c if such keybinding is permissible within Osu itself (aka without any 3rd party assistance). Plus, getting angry and whining about an "unfair advantage" just because someone opted to use one extra finger is extremely, well, childish. If you want to call it weird, that's one thing, but it's not unfair. And if it turns out that 3-key or 4-key Osu is actually better as far as scores and accuracy goes (while still staying within the rules), then that's just the next evolution in playing the game. In fairness, I actually don't expect it to take over the usual two-finger style on keyboard except probably for heavy triplet burst or stream maps, but my point remains.
THAT_otaku
Global Moderator
3,919 posts
Joined February 2018
THAT_otaku
I never stated the using 3 keys part was against the rules, all I'm saying is that using third party software (whatever software to rebind the keys, assuming you don't have m1 on your keyboard (???))to gain an advantage over other users (using three keys) is against the rules. Lazer is not stable. If you are using third party software to gain an advantage (which theoretically is what's happening, as said somewhere above you will gain more inputs per second or whatever by using 3 or more keys) over other users, you are cheating. When lazer score submission arives (soon probably), it will no longer be an unfair advantage as all users can user 1 - 4 inputs without having to use 3rd party applications to achieve it.

tl;dr Dont care about the ethics of whether using 3 fingers specifically is cheating or not, but the facts are facts, rules are rules, that is using third party software to gain an advantage (More inputs per second). If this is not against the rules, it should be stated somewhere officially, rather than a 3 year old email reply.
Last edited by THAT_otaku , edited 4 times in total.
Voidedosu
2,621 posts
Joined June 2016
Voidedosu
And I never disagreed with you. What I was saying was stupid was paraunten's argument that using 3 fingers to stream 400+ was somehow an unfair advantage literally only (according to them) because everyone else uses 2. Which is a stupid-ass argument and is just being butthurt somebody found a way to stream better than you or whatever the norm is, and what I thought we were arguing about.

Again, this rebuttal assumes that any non-standard 3-finger bindings (aka not using any combination of z/x/M1/M2) is able to be used in Osu itself. If you can't re-map M1/M2 to a different key without a 3rd party, then yeah it's a cheat; we 100% agree there. But Para's other argument, which seems to be that merely adding an extra finger makes things unfair, is stupid as shit, and I hope we can agree there as well.
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