In a standard mode when we use HR, circle become smaller, hiigh AR, and hard to get high acc
Also at taiko mode when we use HR, Note comes faster, and also hard to get high acc
CTB mode when we use HR, Fruit comes faster and becomes smaller, and also hard to get high acc(Because ryuuta also becomes smaller)
But there's one thing more changes while playing HR. That is fruits' pattern becomes stranger

Below the screenshot is what I want to say the problem

The normal pattern should be like this

If fruit changes like that while HR there's some positive effects.

1. Mod selection will be more variety
In standard or taiko, there are variety of mod selection if you just memory notes, we can even put HD+HR+FL at the song
But in a current CTB, HR+HD is 99% possible limit mod selection so when like HR+FL or HR+HD+FL mod comes everyone says this record is hack
So if HR pattern changes normal we can choose more mods that's positive change

2. It deletes 99% impossible jumps or patterns
Though it's just a stream pattern, all fruits changed the pattern strangely so it's almost impossible to fc
Because of the hyperdash patch at Jan.15 Catcher can eat some patterns very difficult nowadays
So becomeing normal pattern will make play CTB more comfortably

Also there will be some opposite opinion
1. Standard and taiko is 1.06 and CTB is 1.12 so its strange pattern deserves
Refutation → Standard is using mouse or tablet so the movement is more free than CTB also taiko is just distinguishing red note and blue note it doesn't change any patterns while HR. But in CTB, ryuuta's movement is limit, its velocity is limit so though we all memorized patterns, because of the limitation of the ryuuta's movement it's still hard to catch(When HR pattern becomes normal, still ar becomes faster so needs some memorizing but the ryuuta's movement doesn't allow to go fruit by fruit easily) That's why still changing normal pattern deserves x1.12

2. How about at the AR10 song?
Refutation → Also at the standard mod note smaller needs high acc skill but AR still almost fine
CTB the same, ryuuta smaller so needs high acc skill and fruits smaller but AR still fine it doesn't matter I think


Sorry for the bad English but my opinion is that change the fruits pattern normally at CTB mode thanks

This would break old scores and replays badly, so I don't ever see it being implemented. The closest thing I can imagine is a "Soft Rock" submod with only AR and CS changes, worth 1.06x.

MillhioreF wrote:

This would break old scores and replays badly, so I don't ever see it being implemented. The closest thing I can imagine is a "Soft Rock" submod with only AR and CS changes, worth 1.06x.

Also DT patch and Hyperdash patch broke old scores so if your opinion, before the all patches are useless patch

Soft rock also not the correct answer then also standard mod, when we use HR at that mod, notes pattern should be changed

CtB is quite a broken mode, I'd say... Nevertheless, I can't approve this.

HardRock is a very challenging mod on CtB, pretty much like how DT is challenging on other modes.

I strongly support this

Winshley wrote:

CtB is quite a broken mode, I'd say... Nevertheless, I can't approve this.

HardRock is a very challenging mod on CtB, pretty much like how DT is challenging on other modes.

Because since CTB made in here hardrock pattern was like that
So now all users don't think about this now
They just think "Cuz it's hardrock..."

But my opinion is that we should break a stereotype
why standard or taiko but not the CTB? It's definitely discriminating to users who use HR

I agree.
The other mode, speed is faster, but accuracy will decrease,
pattern to change the catch.
We have been playing for a long time, but I do not think this really.

Promote this request XD

Definately supporting this!

Disagreed.

Winshley wrote:

CtB is quite a broken mode, I'd say... Nevertheless, I can't approve this.

HardRock is a very challenging mod on CtB, pretty much like how DT is challenging on other modes.

*cough* broken since the last update *cough*

I get what rubytic is trying to say but I can't fully agree with him. Standard patterns are different as well, because they're swapped.
CtB basicly increases the random factor on streams/sliders which is totally legit for me.

Promote thsi request

119410501 wrote:

Disagreed.

Just disagreeing is not effective
Could you please tell my why u don't agree this?
Then I will think more and fix some

Obviously support this.

I don't want to see more odd patterns + random 1/4 jumps at HR. These are just confused.

Rubytic wrote:

119410501 wrote:

Disagreed.

Just disagreeing is not effective
Could you please tell my why u don't agree this?
Then I will think more and fix some

I'll say that I don't agree with you because you're talking like HR is an impossible mod, which is fake, it is really easy for professional players (where you are included), and it has an 1.12x multiplier, how someone said before, this is like DT for the other mods.

Awake-Chan wrote:

I get what rubytic is trying to say but I can't fully agree with him. Standard patterns are different as well, because they're swapped.
CtB basicly increases the random factor on streams/sliders which is totally legit for me.

Swapping doesn't make that impossible pattern just change left and right
I also expected this opposite opinion but swapping just changing note's spot not changing patterns

eldnl wrote:

I'll say that I don't agree with you because you're talking like HR is an impossible mod, which is fake, it is really easy for professional players (where you are included), and it has an 1.12x multiplier, how someone said before, this is like DT for the other mods.

still normal pattern while HR mode deserves x1.12
Because of the refutation-1

And so can you fc Blue night HD+HR or Anisakis somatic mutation HD+HR easily? It's almost impossible
But at standard it's possible to some good players

Some jumps become easier, some others harder, some patterns become easier some harder. All in all the difficulty factor is pretty balanced.

Most jumps seems to become easier but it's only partially due to the position changes of the fruits, the other part comes from the fruits are smaller. Since I play I allways saw hyper calculation much more accurate when using a smaller CZ.

I agree with this feature for the sake of ctb mapping (HR is a pattern annihilator), but I think it should be replaced with a reversed left and right map like in standard mode with the reversed up and down.

Rubytic wrote:

eldnl wrote:

I'll say that I don't agree with you because you're talking like HR is an impossible mod, which is fake, it is really easy for professional players (where you are included), and it has an 1.12x multiplier, how someone said before, this is like DT for the other mods.

still normal pattern while HR mode deserves x1.12
Because of the refutation-1

And so can you fc Blue night HD+HR or Anisakis somatic mutation HD+HR easily? It's almost impossible
But at standard it's possible to some good players

Kenji is already the proof that things must not change. HR is good as it is. It makes the game harder, not just increase AR and CS.

this request is funny coming from you, which is currently #2 and can even do the most impossible shit in CtB

anyways I strongly disagree with this, since HR is already fine as it is.
patterns will really change as HR on standard the notes are reverted, of course the pattern will change.

CtB is already broken, why are you trying to break it more. and remember, not all maps are meant to be played with HR, unless you play it ofc

Seph wrote:

this request is funny coming from you, which is currently #2 and can even do the most impossible shit in CtB

anyways I strongly disagree with this, since HR is already fine as it is.
patterns will really change as HR on standard the notes are reverted, of course the pattern will change.

CtB is already broken, why are you trying to break it more. and remember, not all maps are meant to be played with HR, unless you play it ofc

The request seems funny to u but not to me
so did u play HR many times as Bern Kenji or me? I don't think so
I played HR lots of time so I can say this problem bravely
And how can u decide that this ruins CTB more? It doesn't make sense this probably can recover current ctb circumstances

119410501 wrote:

Kenji is already the proof that things must not change. HR is good as it is. It makes the game harder, not just increase AR and CS.

HR is not for only Kenji but for all users
So in your opinion then standard also needs pattern changes like note by note becoming extremely but the real is not

a solution for this been brought up and you denied it because you didn't like it. if you really did care about this, i suggest going back and having another look at soft rock idea MillhioreF suggested.

as for my opinion on this, i like the current way. it makes it kinda of fun in a way xD

Rubytic wrote:

Seph wrote:

this request is funny coming from you, which is currently #2 and can even do the most impossible shit in CtB

anyways I strongly disagree with this, since HR is already fine as it is.
patterns will really change as HR on standard the notes are reverted, of course the pattern will change.

CtB is already broken, why are you trying to break it more. and remember, not all maps are meant to be played with HR, unless you play it ofc

The request seems funny to u but not to me
so did u play HR many times as Bern Kenji or me? I don't think so
I played HR lots of time so I can say this problem bravely
And how can u decide that this ruins CTB more? It doesn't make sense this probably can recover current ctb circumstances

Does it matter if one played more maps with HR than me? Do they get this ~experience~ advantage over me? Does the pattern get harder on any map if you played more maps with HR than me? No.

And CtB is broken, face it. Take hyperdashes for example, they aren't even perfect. Ofc you wouldn't notice, I mean you're Rubytic, you had a reputation before right? Woops.

I agree your opinion strongly.
I wonder how can appeared the weird HR pattern only in CTB.
So i think HR mod in CTB must be changed.

And, remember that this is a record game, you can't get in the future things in an easier way than people before who worked harder to them with the same result. It wouldn't be fair.

Rubytic wrote:

119410501 wrote:

Kenji is already the proof that things must not change. HR is good as it is. It makes the game harder, not just increase AR and CS.

HR is not for only Kenji but for all users
So in your opinion then standard also needs pattern changes like note by note becoming extremely but the real is not

Seph wrote:

patterns will really change as HR on standard the notes are reverted, of course the pattern will change.

Rubytic wrote:

And so can you fc Blue night HD+HR or Anisakis somatic mutation HD+HR easily? It's almost impossible
But at standard it's possible to some good players

Blue night is not hard and I didn't played the other one, but still, this like you want to change DT on standard because it is impossible in 180+bpm ..

Seph wrote:

And CtB is broken, face it. Take hyperdashes for example, they aren't even perfect. Ofc you wouldn't notice, I mean you're Rubytic, you had a reputation before right? Woops.

<3


Ontopic:

The softrock option is the only reasonable one IMO.
Changing the existing Hardrock will cause more bad things instead of good things..
Previous records will be nothing and replays will be broken (changed patterns).

My thoughts are that this behaviour wheter is intended or not, is good.
I explain why: when you look up to Taiko, standard and osu!mania you will notice how they need you to hit a certain key in the correct rhythm of the beats. Since in CtB the translation from standard CtB to HR CtB isn't quite big then this change comes along to add more rhythm factor to the "boring" streams in standard. You need to press your dash with more precision to catch all those fruits with HR, because that's why its called HR, to be more precision demanding.

VelperK wrote:

My thoughts are that this behaviour wheter is intended or not, is good.
I explain why: when you look up to Taiko, standard and osu!mania you will notice how they need you to hit a certain key in the correct rhythm of the beats. Since in CtB the translation from standard CtB to HR CtB isn't quite big then this change comes along to add more rhythm factor to the "boring" streams in standard. You need to press your dash with more precision to catch all those fruits with HR, because that's why its called HR, to be more precision demanding.

This only works for standard converted maps imo. CtB maps are (supposed) to already give a bigger amount of rythm patterns than converted standard offers. So basically this change would be a good thing for CtB specifics (actually add jumps in non appropirate patterns) and a bad thing for converted maps (actually add jumps making the map funnier to play most of the time).

119410501 wrote:

And, remember that this is a record game, you can't get in the future things in an easier way than people before who worked harder to them with the same result. It wouldn't be fair.

When new hyperdashes were introduced there was the same problem on many maps.
Maybe CtB is broken but why not take an opportunity to fix ?

Seph wrote:

And CtB is broken, face it. Take hyperdashes for example, they aren't even perfect. Ofc you wouldn't notice, I mean you're Rubytic, you had a reputation before right? Woops.

why this flame again...

Drafura wrote:

VelperK wrote:

My thoughts are that this behaviour wheter is intended or not, is good.
I explain why: when you look up to Taiko, standard and osu!mania you will notice how they need you to hit a certain key in the correct rhythm of the beats. Since in CtB the translation from standard CtB to HR CtB isn't quite big then this change comes along to add more rhythm factor to the "boring" streams in standard. You need to press your dash with more precision to catch all those fruits with HR, because that's why its called HR, to be more precision demanding.

This only works for standard converted maps imo. CtB maps are (supposed) to already give a bigger amount of rythm patterns than converted standard offers. So basically this change would be a good thing for CtB specifics (actually add jumps in non appropirate patterns) and a bad thing for converted maps (actually add jumps making the map funnier to play most of the time).

Yes, I agree.
This request actually makes a lot more sense if it affected all the upcoming CTB SPECIFIC difficulties.

Tenshichan wrote:

119410501 wrote:

And, remember that this is a record game, you can't get in the future things in an easier way than people before who worked harder to them with the same result. It wouldn't be fair.

When new hyperdashes were introduced there was the same problem on many maps.
Maybe CtB is broken but why not take an opportunity to fix ?

In this case we are talking about to a "difficulty decreaser update", not a fix. DT fix and hyper dash fix just fixed, somehow, things which were or impossible or not possible on all computers. This case is different, it would change every HR play, not only specific maps, all CTB HR would be ruined turned into easier and all scores broken (as for replays, as for difficulty itself (unfair)).

Fully supporting CTB-specific maps to not have patterns affected by HR. Like I said earlier, I don't see this ever happening otherwise without a new mod, since it changes gameplay in a way that DOESN'T fix the bug (like DT patch and hyperfruit patch)

MillhioreF wrote:

Fully supporting CTB-specific maps to not have patterns affected by HR. Like I said earlier, I don't see this ever happening otherwise without a new mod, since it changes gameplay in a way that DOESN'T fix the bug (like DT patch and hyperfruit patch)

What about this?



upcoming only!

I agreeeeeeeeeee

Current CTB HR needs 'luck' not the 'rhythm'
Osu is a rhythm game not 'catch the luck' game
I saw all opposite opinions and they all say this "Standard swaps the note" or "Soft Rock"
Yes in standard mod, note swaps when playing HR, but that's all
So have you seen the note changing the pattern or position strangely? Not! That's why standard is a rhythm game
But look at this
In this case, do we need rhythm skill? No instead god of luck comes to you and say "You can pass this part only this time so have a good time ^^"
That's why I'm requesting this problem

P.S: Seph you so rude your attitude is not a correct way to say here in community
So do we need a good past and good reputation when requesting? Of course not. It's just requesting current problem and discussing pros and cons
Please be careful.

As 119 said, this will create inconsistency with how HR worked until now. Mod can't be changed like this, so the only solution would be to create a new mod (as you call it softrock) which won't touch patterns but then it should give 1.06x...

This is same as to request that slider droplets (smallest ones) should follow sliders in standard (like big droplets do) or to request that sliders should have one more tick in taiko. Why to make this mode even easier?

Any notes displacement / pattern change is unlikely to happen (imagine that suddenly none of old HR replays show correct movement, such a failure), so I disagree with this.

12:27 deadbeat: hello
12:28 deadbeat: whats your view point on this feature request t/127502/start=0
12:28 VelperK: i stated my opinion on the second page!
12:28 VelperK: then drafura proceeded to complement it
12:28 VelperK: i agreed to that, and i recommended yet the best solution i can think of
12:29 VelperK: for pleasing the people and not causing anything big to change at all
12:29 deadbeat: sweet. i'll quickly read it now
12:31 deadbeat: ok. so keep the request open, but have it only change the behaviour for ctb only difficulties?
12:32 VelperK: UPCOMING
12:32 VelperK: please do note that
12:32 VelperK: i dont wanna poot up the current ctb diffs
12:32 VelperK: and their HR replays
12:32 VelperK: just upcoming ctb diff
12:32 VelperK: anyone doing a ctb specific
12:32 VelperK: checking the option for doing so, after that feature is implemented

Rubytic wrote:

Current CTB HR needs 'luck' not the 'rhythm'
Osu is a rhythm game not 'catch the luck' game
I saw all opposite opinions and they all say this "Standard swaps the note" or "Soft Rock"
Yes in standard mod, note swaps when playing HR, but that's all
So have you seen the note changing the pattern or position strangely? Not! That's why standard is a rhythm game
But look at this

Problem

In this case, do we need rhythm skill? No instead god of luck comes to you and say "You can pass this part only this time so have a good time ^^"
That's why I'm requesting this problem

P.S: Seph you so rude your attitude is not a correct way to say here in community
So do we need a good past and good reputation when requesting? Of course not. It's just requesting current problem and discussing pros and cons
Please be careful.

How you can call it lucky?
come on ...
Anyways, I agree with velperk and drafura.

Rubytic wrote:

Current CTB HR needs 'luck' not the 'rhythm'

cute.

You never needed luck in this game, why, will that luck magically catch all those fruits without you doing that much effort because of ~luck~?

No.

Also even if its with HR it will still follow the rhythm, for fucks sake maps are made with rhythm (standard>ctb conversion) so it WILL stay in rhythm even if you put any mod with it.

This idea just isn't going to work out in its current state, and there's so much conflict and dissonance in this thread. The request is never going to be implemented at all like this.
Should I mark the thread invalid? Or should I move it to the CTB section and let the CTB players discuss and refine it further?

I still think my request is the sanest one, and most benefitial for most people

MillhioreF wrote:

This idea just isn't going to work out in its current state, and there's so much conflict and dissonance in this thread. The request is never going to be implemented at all like this.
Should I mark the thread invalid? Or should I move it to the CTB section and let the CTB players discuss and refine it further?

I don't know but one thing is sure
CTB thread so conservative that this topic 100% killed by them.
But in here it's open conservative users and progressive users can talk each other, it's not discriminative here.

And also few users opposite and many users have stars and supporting so let's look further in here.
Almost before the patches had pros and cons
At 2010 when hyperdash appeard lots of people had an opposite opinion but it made.
At 2012 when DT patch appeard also lots of people had an opposite opinion but it made.
At 2013 when pixel jump patch appeard also lots of people had an opposite opinion but it made.
So those 3 patches are fine but this not? hmmm.....

Many HR users thought this serious problem like me, lineqtxz or even HD users Himitsu- and CLSW and so on It needs to be fixed I think

All 3 of the patches you mentioned changed gameplay, yes, but there's a big distinction - they were all patches to fix bugs that made patterns literally impossible to catch. With HR, the patterns are always possible to catch (not always by humans) while before the other patches even a perfect bot couldn't catch every fruit.

Rubytic wrote:

MillhioreF wrote:

This idea just isn't going to work out in its current state, and there's so much conflict and dissonance in this thread. The request is never going to be implemented at all like this.
Should I mark the thread invalid? Or should I move it to the CTB section and let the CTB players discuss and refine it further?

I don't know but one thing is sure
CTB thread so conservative that this topic 100% killed by them.
But in here it's open conservative users and progressive users can talk each other, it's not discriminative here.

And also few users opposite and many users have stars and supporting so let's look further in here.
Almost before the patches had pros and cons
At 2010 when hyperdash appeard lots of people had an opposite opinion but it made.
At 2012 when DT patch appeard also lots of people had an opposite opinion but it made.
At 2013 when pixel jump patch appeard also lots of people had an opposite opinion but it made.
So those 3 patches are fine but this not? hmmm.....

Many HR users thought this serious problem like me, lineqtxz or even HD users Himitsu- and CLSW and so on It needs to be fixed I think

1- We're not some fascist fags, we just state our points of view which happen to differ with yours. If the majority differs with your point of view it doesn't mean we're conservative or anything.

2- You're making a fallacy there, by stating that because something got added with an opposition but it was succesful in its way to become an actual change, then it's good. That's like saying that Barack Obama is good because he made it to the White House even though there was an opposite opinion.

3- The first patch is good, the second patch is good, the third patch is good and bad for various reasons we stated many many times in the ctb channel and the thread itself, and this patch is horrible as you put it in the OP, but it could be excellent if we apply it only to future CtB specific difficulties because as Drafura already said, those difficulties do NOT need their rhythmycal placements changed at all, they just need their CS and AR to be increased a little bit more because the hard jumps are already there, no need to apply these inconvenients stream jumps or whatever, since they're made for CtB.

MillhioreF wrote:

All 3 of the patches you mentioned changed gameplay, yes, but there's a big distinction - they were all patches to fix bugs that made patterns literally impossible to catch. With HR, the patterns are always possible to catch (not always by humans) while before the other patches even a perfect bot couldn't catch every fruit.

Yes I understand. Strictly saying, HR is possible to fc even it needs lots of luck, can fc.
But the problem is that current CTB HR is for only a few users not all users.
It should be free to other people, because the patterns were strange since 2008 when CTB first showed now many people don't even try HR
Time flewed more than 4 years and it became stereotype "HR changes pattern so I can't do it "
So normal pattern will make a lot of chance to whom wants to play HR but can't because of that pattern.
Also thanks to(?) pixel jump patch some songs now almost impossible to fc that's a true story indeed

I already did lots of HR but I still think this has some problem I agree with this
Frist I would like to suvey to middle or newbie users about this
But I think it has some problem to them.
I support this yea

I am noob at CTB and I don't see any point in this, just getting better fixes everything, no:?

Millhiore is completely right. We can solve this problem with implemention of SoftRock (SR) 1.06x and many HR replays won't be corrupted.
In standard, SR can be like HR but without "mirroing" the beats. In taiko and mania, I don't know what will it do because I rarely play them. Also, new mods are welcomed for this game, to my mind.

Don Omar wrote:

Millhiore is completely right. We can solve this problem with implemention of SoftRock (SR) 1.06x and many HR replays won't be corrupted.
In standard, SR can be like HR but without "mirroing" the beats. In taiko and mania, I don't know what will it do because I rarely play them. Also, new mods are welcomed for this game, to my mind.

When I see HR, it's for only a few people and they don't want to change normal pattern.
It's like rich gets all and the poor gets none at the Renaissance.
Or we can see this situation at the government party
Strong party doesn't want to change their taste because they are fine but they don't care normal people.

Really discriminative situation. Only HR made this unequal record wow.

To me this really serious problem and needs to be fixed.

Disagree

1. HR is a mod that makes the circle size become smaller & AR become higher & makes the pattern more different. If this request happen, HR is just a mod to makes the circle size smaller & raises the AR. so It'll become more easier than before & just bored to play. many song in STD that converted to CtB are harder to catch (especially stream pattern) but it doesn't mean makes the song played with HR are uncatchable & fcable.

2. Comparing the HR updates & the other mod, some mod had the advantage & disadvantage to play (Ex: HD is harder when playing with low A + harder pattern). so i think this will makes the Hard aspect in ctb is gone. also the multipier in HR is higher than DT & HD ,that makes the scoring system & the competition more unfair)

3.More racism & more hate come for players (you can predict when this updates are applied)


Agree if :

1. I think it should be replaced with a reversed left and right map like in standard mode with the reversed up and down + the multipier reduced to 1.06 like in the STD

+ agree with this feature for the sake of ctb mapping (HR is a pattern annihilator), but I think it should be replaced with a reversed left and right map like in standard mode with the reversed up and down. because CTB map + HR is different from Converted STD map + HR