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[CTB] Normal pattern while playing HR mode [invalid]

posted
Total Posts
95
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +73
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Rubytic
97 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Rubytic

MillhioreF wrote:

All 3 of the patches you mentioned changed gameplay, yes, but there's a big distinction - they were all patches to fix bugs that made patterns literally impossible to catch. With HR, the patterns are always possible to catch (not always by humans) while before the other patches even a perfect bot couldn't catch every fruit.
Yes I understand. Strictly saying, HR is possible to fc even it needs lots of luck, can fc.
But the problem is that current CTB HR is for only a few users not all users.
It should be free to other people, because the patterns were strange since 2008 when CTB first showed now many people don't even try HR
Time flewed more than 4 years and it became stereotype "HR changes pattern so I can't do it :("
So normal pattern will make a lot of chance to whom wants to play HR but can't because of that pattern.
Also thanks to(?) pixel jump patch some songs now almost impossible to fc that's a true story indeed :(
Berncastell
137 posts
Joined January 2010
Berncastell
I already did lots of HR but I still think this has some problem I agree with this :)
Frist I would like to suvey to middle or newbie users about this
But I think it has some problem to them.
I support this :) yea
Big and Busty
Big and Busty
I am noob at CTB and I don't see any point in this, just getting better fixes everything, no:?
XEPCOH
529 posts
Joined February 2011
XEPCOH
Millhiore is completely right. We can solve this problem with implemention of SoftRock (SR) 1.06x and many HR replays won't be corrupted.
In standard, SR can be like HR but without "mirroing" the beats. In taiko and mania, I don't know what will it do because I rarely play them. Also, new mods are welcomed for this game, to my mind.
Rubytic
97 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Rubytic

Don Omar wrote:

Millhiore is completely right. We can solve this problem with implemention of SoftRock (SR) 1.06x and many HR replays won't be corrupted.
In standard, SR can be like HR but without "mirroing" the beats. In taiko and mania, I don't know what will it do because I rarely play them. Also, new mods are welcomed for this game, to my mind.
When I see HR, it's for only a few people and they don't want to change normal pattern.
It's like rich gets all and the poor gets none at the Renaissance.
Or we can see this situation at the government party
Strong party doesn't want to change their taste because they are fine but they don't care normal people.

Really discriminative situation. Only HR made this unequal record wow.

To me this really serious problem and needs to be fixed.
ursa
1,302 posts
Joined April 2010
ursa
Disagree

1. HR is a mod that makes the circle size become smaller & AR become higher & makes the pattern more different. If this request happen, HR is just a mod to makes the circle size smaller & raises the AR. so It'll become more easier than before & just bored to play. many song in STD that converted to CtB are harder to catch (especially stream pattern) but it doesn't mean makes the song played with HR are uncatchable & fcable.

2. Comparing the HR updates & the other mod, some mod had the advantage & disadvantage to play (Ex: HD is harder when playing with low A + harder pattern). so i think this will makes the Hard aspect in ctb is gone. also the multipier in HR is higher than DT & HD ,that makes the scoring system & the competition more unfair)

3.More racism & more hate come for players (you can predict when this updates are applied)


Agree if :

1. I think it should be replaced with a reversed left and right map like in standard mode with the reversed up and down + the multipier reduced to 1.06 like in the STD 8-)

+ agree with this feature for the sake of ctb mapping (HR is a pattern annihilator), but I think it should be replaced with a reversed left and right map like in standard mode with the reversed up and down. because CTB map + HR is different from Converted STD map + HR
Rubytic
97 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Rubytic
If you guys avoid this requests then there is also one alternation
Like Don Omar said, Make a new mode 'Soft Rock' And its patterns is like normal but all is same between HR And this is x1.06
If this alternation is fine then I'll change mind to this :)
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined April 2010
Drafura
Rubytic pls....

Take 1000 ctb newbies ask them to FC the same map without and with HR : When they'll try to HR it 75% will say it's too fast 25% will say it's too small and none will say aww the patterns changed too much.

I'm not kidding most players wich wants to go to HR try to increase their reading speed and their ability to catch small fruits I never heard something like : "I want to play HR so i'm training wierd patterns". And to be honest I think this change will ONLY helps players who already know how to play HR making them easier to FC maps and increasing the difficulty for low players to get a decent rank in std converted maps, and seriously HR players already have a BIG BIG help wich nobody dare to mention and is actually a +1.06x multiplier (I wonder how many HR players will quit HR gaming if HD was unranked).

Another point to this : Those little missplacement maybe are a problem for you but for me it's an help cause I like to feel the rythm when I play and not just waiting for the XXX combo to have something with rythm for maybe 2 or 3 fruits.
119410501
665 posts
Joined April 2011
119410501

Seph wrote:

Also Rubytic dear, don't ever think that I'm threatened or that I would change my opinion about this even if you take all my #1s

Sincerely, Seph
Lol'd way too hard.
Sena Aizawa
Sena Aizawa
75% Agree, 25% Disagree

Reasons :

I Agree, because this thing is disturbing me too, (but I think I need to train my Left Hand to get a right timing to do a Dash), yes, I Love HR in all-mode (except Mania, unranked)
and, the stream map will be harder, this is really disturbing me, i want to do "it" with HR, but the "patterns" are crazy like a hell

But, i'm kind of disagree too, because CTB will be easier for the newbs, so no more challenge again, the only challenge is using "HDDTFL" or "HDHRFL" or something like that
SoftRock ? umm, considering about that, lol.

btw i give a support
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
if anyone wants to support the soft rock idea, do so here please :)
t/127611

just a head's up :)
119410501
665 posts
Joined April 2011
119410501
I disagree even about implementing ... "Soft Rock".
That would be just an useless mod, play DT instead, there are many maps which are really challenging with DT and impossible with HR, SR would be able to get the same result as DT and that would be UNFAIR.

About CTB diffs only, that would be good if this change only applies to them, with a system recognition of the specific diff factor, so that all modes' diffs will stay the same (random placing factor), and CTB diffs will just increase AR and CS.

Rubytic, if you really need to decrease the difficulty of maps to steal everything (especially kenji's #1 to take #1 PP before your quit), I have no words.
This is not a "discrimination", this is a skill requiring mod, and it's funny that this request comes from you. I suck at HR, but I TOTALLY DISAGREE to make it easier FOR MYSELF only because I suck.
Katze
379 posts
Joined November 2011
Katze

Drafura wrote:

Rubytic pls....

Take 1000 ctb newbies ask them to FC the same map without and with HR : When they'll try to HR it 75% will say it's too fast 25% will say it's too small and none will say aww the patterns changed too much.

I'm not kidding most players wich wants to go to HR try to increase their reading speed and their ability to catch small fruits I never heard something like : "I want to play HR so i'm training wierd patterns". And to be honest I think this change will ONLY helps players who already know how to play HR making them easier to FC maps and increasing the difficulty for low players to get a decent rank in std converted maps, and seriously HR players already have a BIG BIG help wich nobody dare to mention and is actually a +1.06x multiplier (I wonder how many HR players will quit HR gaming if HD was unranked).

Another point to this : Those little missplacement maybe are a problem for you but for me it's an help cause I like to feel the rythm when I play and not just waiting for the XXX combo to have something with rythm for maybe 2 or 3 fruits.
Exactly this. I agree with Drafura. Your request sounds like you just want to change something to your advantage. You say that you need luck to pass certain maps when you play with HR, well then just play until you get lucky, or you practice until you memorize the pattern. And don't say you can't practice that. I don't play with HR so I really don't care about this but I am definitely supporting the Soft Rock idea since it seems like a good alternative. And remember, there aren't many players who HR everything like you, if you can't pass it without a miss, then just retry instead of posting a request where only a few player can take advantage of.

Edit: I also don't post a request just because I can't fc a insane map with HD. Just try to handle it without posting a request 10 minutes later because it seems like you did it this way.
Last edited by Katze , edited 2 times in total.
Seph
Seph
I can't beat kenji, lets change HR.

SoftRock would get my support if its handed out pretty detailed.
Rubytic
97 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Rubytic
You guys have really strong stereotype
I will not change my request game should be changed ok? ^^
Just think differently is this not easy? I don't wanna talk twice or more
you guys don't want to get lost first place that's why you don't want to change this
Someday this will be appear I'm sure
My mention over and many people give stars in here it means many people agree this problem ok? ^^
Katze
379 posts
Joined November 2011
Katze

Rubytic wrote:

You guys have really strong stereotype
I will not change my request game should be changed ok? ^^
Just think differently is this not easy? I don't wanna talk twice or more
you guys don't want to get lost first place that's why you don't want to change this
Someday this will be appear I'm sure
My mention over and many people give stars in here it means many people agree this problem ok? ^^
I have no #1's to take, and I am not complaining. This is a public forum and I am stating my opinion just like you.
And if you think 40~ are many than I don't know what you define as less than 20.
Seph
Seph

Rubytic wrote:

You guys have really strong stereotype
I will not change my request game should be changed ok? ^^
Just think differently is this not easy? I don't wanna talk twice or more
you guys don't want to get lost first place that's why you don't want to change this
Someday this will be appear I'm sure
My mention over and many people give stars in here it means many people agree this problem ok? ^^
I have no idea what you just said.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
btw guys, be nice, or i'll just lock this. i'm already tempted to deny this since it would break past replays.
Rubytic, please don't get upset at people disagreeing with your request. there will always be people who disagree with requests and you can't change that by complaining or getting upset at those people. also if something is too hard to do with hard rock, then don't play it with hard rock. this doesn't really seem like a *this must be fixed* issue to me.

i'll leave the discussion of this to catch the beat players though since they willl have a better opinion about this. but be careful cause i'm not a huge fan of telling people to be nice over and over again. so if this does keep up, expect a lock :)
119410501
665 posts
Joined April 2011
119410501

Rubytic wrote:

you guys don't want to get lost first place that's why you don't want to change this
you Rubytic want to take first place easier that's why you do want to change this
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
Ruby, pleasel, luck doesn't exist on this game, how you can catch fruits by luck? anyways, HR is a challenging mod, not impossible, it probably could take a lot of retries, but who said that everything will be easy when you become pro?

Still, I agree with Velperk and Drafura, it makes sense and could be implemented easily imo.
I disagree with the addition of softrock, 119 said enough.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
The only way this idea is valid is if it affects only newly ranked maps. You can just give up trying to ask for existing patterns to be changed. Just adding my two cents.
ExGon
Former osu!catch Champion: 2017
546 posts
Joined December 2009
ExGon
disagree

:(
Harp Note
69 posts
Joined August 2009
Harp Note
I was going to post yesterday something along the lines of "Not supporting, but yes to the idea of softcore", now it has changed a little.

Like it has been saiid a ton of times, if you change HardRock you'll destroy all the old replay/records, any HR replay would be useless, and even if you could, somehow, keep these replays, you can't compare these old records with changed patterns to the new ones, without it.

The solution to that is creating a "Softcore" mod, but do we really need it? This says it all:

Drafura wrote:

Take 1000 ctb newbies ask them to FC the same map without and with HR : When they'll try to HR it 75% will say it's too fast 25% will say it's too small and none will say aww the patterns changed too much.
I include myself in there, changed patterns it's the last thing I would consider.

________

Rubytic, I don't know you at all, and while this is a game, it totally makes me angry when you say that you in particular needs luck to pass things with HR, to FC an [AR 7~10 + HR], before you even think about luck, you need hability, quick reflexes, whatever. I really respect players who can play HR consistently, because I can't (and I don't think I will ever can), so when you say that, a player who has many HR+HD records, it's incredible disappointing for me. You have the skills, use it, don't complain.
Ableh
1,924 posts
Joined June 2011
Ableh
i disagree this
because HR will not be challenging anymore if the pattern change to normal
and more like DT on other mod
kenji
127 posts
Joined April 2009
kenji
people, please don't complain easily if you didn't play HR so much,this problem is for HardRockers.

i have been playing HR for over 2 years,50000 times at least.
and i don't have dissatisfaction in now HR.

i think HardRocker's opinion is more important than others at here.(ex. mikhe bern saori velp eldnl diego mrsake k4 etc...)

surely,this irregular pattern is just strange.
but i think HR's x1.12 is because of it.
so if it fixed, HR will not have value of x1.12. it should be x1.06.

it makes game interesting and hard.
so i disagree with this request.

it's my opinion just as one of the HardRocker.
if a lot of HardRcoker are saying agree with it, this problem should be fixed.

Digression:
HR is hard for beginners but it doesn't need talent.
practice is everything
Last edited by kenji , edited 2 times in total.
CLSW
osu! Alumni
2,182 posts
Joined October 2010
CLSW
Showing your opinions is ok, but no more harassments plz.
Jacqli
Jacqli

kenji wrote:

practice is everything
so wanna play HR? then practice. there's a little chance that you could made it in one try... but why not giving it a try again?

As long you have some spirits you'll made it
Sena Aizawa
Sena Aizawa
yes, if this feature is accepted, HR will same as DT (though the different is only the CS, AR maybe will be same as DT)
I Disagree, but i like your 'fight' for HR, so i support this o3o

yes, like kenji said, the key is only 'practice, practice, and practice !!'
luck is exist, but maybe the chance is only 25%, and it's located in 1st try, trust me `-`
Seph
Seph
Luck doesn't exist in this game. Its all about skill, try stepping up your game.
Lally
3,177 posts
Joined December 2011
Lally

Seph wrote:

Luck doesn't exist in this game. Its all about skill, try stepping up your game.
sometimes is about luck too,i'm not a pro player but i did things only for luck sometimes and not because i was a amazing skill.

and btw i disagree with this,it will be all just simplier and all will be borring imo since i play with hr too.
Sena Aizawa
Sena Aizawa
yeah, maybe there's nothing like "Luck" on this game, but "Skiil" is not the only one.
"Determination" and "Intention" too (IMHO)...
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
Luck doesn't exist here unless you play with your eyes closed.
I totally agree with kenji, just practice if you can't do something, you will see that with the time it will become easier ^^
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
Luck is sightreading a map at AR10.
Skill is playing the map, getting good at the jumps and patterns and having enough precision to catch things on HR.

This absolutely won't be implemented in the current state of the request - please change it to mention only CTB-specific maps, or let it be denied, your choice. (The other option, SoftRock, already has a thread)
I've already had to remove some posts that were just trolling or worthless, so please try to keep it more civil.
CLSW
osu! Alumni
2,182 posts
Joined October 2010
CLSW
Luck exists in every game. If luck doesn't exist, I must spend 1000+pc for FC neu, (and Earthquake Super Shock, etc) you must keep your combos or FC per every plays.

See, if I play 289 plays at neu, then I must FC neu for 289 times.

and we must not talk conversations like '"Yay I did it!" "OMG ur so pro" "It was heavy luck :3"''.

Humans are not robots and not perfect, guys.
Last edited by CLSW , edited 1 time in total.
Rubytic
97 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Rubytic
If this request were useless and controversial I would delete this
But star priority already more than 60 it means many people agree this problem about this except few people
So I think I can maintain this request
Are there only negative opinions? I'm sick and tired refutating opinion
Anyway current HR needs luck than rhythm skill it's like paradox!
Reflect this to your life, is your life made by luck than any memorizing past?
That needs Jinsei reset button!

High AR needs reading fast note skill not the luck
But current needs luck that's true story
I played HR so many times and I really really realized this

Anyway my opinion is that this must be fixed!
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

MillhioreF wrote:

This absolutely won't be implemented in the current state of the request - please change it to mention only CTB-specific maps, or let it be denied, your choice.
Sena Aizawa
Sena Aizawa
Calm down, Ruby
People have reasons why to declare they disagreement. (again, i appreciate your fight)

for this "luck" or anything, nah, i'm not into it again `3`

by the way, this :

MillhioreF wrote:

This absolutely won't be implemented in the current state of the request - please change it to mention only CTB-specific maps, or let it be denied, your choice.
ursa
1,302 posts
Joined April 2010
ursa
for me first when reading this , i disagree because of the tittle ([CTB] Normal pattern while playing HR mode. )

If the thread request are talked about change the HR for CTB ( In general , like how to change it) I think it'll become a good topic to talk because the topic will become to find how the HR will be changed & the + & - side.


Rubytic wrote:

If this request were useless and controversial I would delete this
But star priority already more than 60 it means many people agree this problem about this except few people
So I think I can maintain this request
Are there only negative opinions? I'm sick and tired refutating opinion
Anyway current HR needs luck than rhythm skill it's like paradox!
Reflect this to your life, is your life made by luck than any memorizing past?
That needs Jinsei reset button!

High AR needs reading fast note skill not the luck
But current needs luck that's true story
I played HR so many times and I really really realized this

Anyway my opinion is that this must be fixed!

I know what you feel , but you just make this thread 42hours ago & suddenly you want to close this ,that's too fast. at least let the player feel free to give their opinion about this.
XEPCOH
529 posts
Joined February 2011
XEPCOH

CLSW wrote:

Luck exists in every game. If luck doesn't exist, I must spend 1000+pc for FC neu, (and Earthquake Super Shock, etc) you must keep your combos or FC per every plays.

See, if I play 289 plays at neu, then I must FC neu for 289 times.

and we must not talk conversations like '"Yay I did it!" "OMG ur so pro" "It was heavy luck :3"''.

Humans are not robots and not perfect, guys.
pixeljumps were a huge luck too, why new hyperdashes, whyyyyy?
Last Remnant_old
Last Remnant_old
Guys, this was INTENDED behaviour, if you look at CTB mods history, first HR was also 1.06x and then changed to 1.12x, which means peppy, who coded it, did this on purpose, he wanted it to be that way to add more fun to CTB.
Watch out when you compare it to hypers, hypers WERE broken (broken = maps are unFCable technically), so they had to be fixed, same goes with HT and DT.
HR isn't broken, and your LUCK saying makes no sense at all, you can say each pixeljump needs LUCK. So by your thinking, hypers should spawn more frequently?

And this was voted by very few players, and even fewer of those who are CTB veterans and pros. I can make some stupid request and vote 60 times for it, that doesn't mean others like it!

kenji disagrees, ExGon disagrees, VelperK disagrees, Venlas, 119,... should I even continue counting?

And most importantly, if you want this for newer maps only, that would mean a new .osu file format version, but I see you are asking for all maps, which would mean 5+ years of records and hard work easily beaten by some newbies. I want HR to be harder, with just AR10 and a bit lower Circle Size it would be only a matter of few tries till I FC any map I could without it.

As with any update, point of update is to add expansion to possibilities to the game, which means that everything possible in the past should still be possible (or reset all the scores) + something new. Any other change which severely changes possiblities should require full score reset to keep consistency. This was broken once with HT fix, but it was barely noticeable. This would bring total mess.
Last edited by Last Remnant_old , edited 1 time in total.
CLSW
osu! Alumni
2,182 posts
Joined October 2010
CLSW
pixeljumps were a huge luck too, why new hyperdashes, whyyyyy?
SPOILER
this one
Seph
Seph

Don Omar wrote:

CLSW wrote:

Luck exists in every game. If luck doesn't exist, I must spend 1000+pc for FC neu, (and Earthquake Super Shock, etc) you must keep your combos or FC per every plays.

See, if I play 289 plays at neu, then I must FC neu for 289 times.

and we must not talk conversations like '"Yay I did it!" "OMG ur so pro" "It was heavy luck :3"''.

Humans are not robots and not perfect, guys.
pixeljumps were a huge luck too, why new hyperdashes, whyyyyy?
no not really, you guys overcame pixeljumps with pause trick (except CSLW, too monster for that) or whatever it was.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl

CLSW wrote:

pixeljumps were a huge luck too, why new hyperdashes, whyyyyy?
SPOILER
this one
But that's not hard D:
Also @Seph, CLSW used pause trick too, he teached me that.
Seph
Seph
oh well, whatever. then pause trick isnt ~luck~ nor you need one for it, you just need to know how to do it and if ever you failed on doing so you probably miscalculated something
XEPCOH
529 posts
Joined February 2011
XEPCOH

Seph wrote:

oh well, whatever. then pause trick isnt ~luck~ nor you need one for it, you just need to know how to do it and if ever you failed on doing so you probably miscalculated something
I needed >200 tries to pass at least one pixel in my training diifs, then I got used to and pass them in 5-10 tries. Luck? Yes.
[KOR]Cirno
[KOR]Cirno
I agree this ~ :)
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
Last warning before I lock this thread outright. Me and deadbeat have constantly been cleaning spam posts and outright trolling out of this thread, and I'm getting tired of it, if not both of us. Maybe this behavior is acceptable in #ctb and Catch the Beat general discussion (I don't think it is, but it's part of the community, so I let it slide) but I refuse to tolerate it elsewhere.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
ok, it's been 40 hours since MillhioreF asked you to change this request to ctb only difficulties and nothing has happened. you have 8 more hours from this post. if this thread hasn't been change to only affect ctb difficulties, then this will be denied
-Ryuujii-
259 posts
Joined November 2012
-Ryuujii-
BAYLIFE
CLSW
osu! Alumni
2,182 posts
Joined October 2010
CLSW
Rest in peace :(
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
Time is up and nothing has happened. as promised, this is now denied and i'm locking this thread. you can discuss Normal HR pattern while playing CTB specific diffs here. you could support the SoftRock request or you can send me a pm with a good and valid reason why this should revived. or you could do something else. your call
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