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What do you have against PP farmers?

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NoJoke_old_1
NoJoke_old_1

Iluya wrote:

That is not what i said/meant. I related purely to speed. And especially to the ability to gain it. So all i was pointing out was, that if you are younger it is easier to gain the speed. I havnt said you cannot gain them or you even lose it.

Another thing is: Most competitive video games are also depending on skills like strategy, or situational reactions, which are highly experience-based. In Osu that part would be pattern recognition, bpm-pattern relations and common conceptions of maps, which are learned by playing more, thus "older ppl" might have an advantage here.
What it honestly boils down to is the fact whatever you may find fun should be what matters in the end. Games are created and developed for fun. Of course there will be competitive play; however you have to consider if you're going into competitive play with a certain game you must find it fun to begin with and actually get good at the game. How you get good is your own way of training yourself.

As many have told me, you don't get good overnight so keep practicing. I didn't fully understand what there was to practice until people started giving me a wide variation of things I need to work on. Once I learned that, I have my own method that works for me. Some people find playing the same map over and over again to FC it would be the most viable option seeing they are comfortable with the paterns and get a feeling of enjoyment after FC'ing the map as a personal achievement. Therefore that would move them to a slightly difficult map set for them to work on next. It's a rinse and repeat method.

So all in all, PP farming would only get you better in the end. If you're good enough to efficiently farm high-tier maps that are fast paced then by all means, do it until you FC it. I don't really see the fun it in persay however every human being has their own way of training their brain - whichever they find fun, I guess let them do. There's no reason to stop what somebody finds fun. That's like taking candy from a baby, as I said before games are designed and developed for fun purposes only. If you take their fun away then there's no fun left in the game.

As long as it doesn't effect you personally there should be no reason to hate PP farmers. Yes you may loose a few ranks here and there but that gives you an incentive to go back and play the map just to re-obtain your ranking. :D
scenekidz
scenekidz
I have been noticing a lot of low level players with real high ranks...must be because they have one or two #1's on hard maps I suppose...

The question I have is this...Why would you hate on the PP farmers if there are actually lots of people out there who hack this game to get 100 percent SS on insane maps with all mods? I find it sad that people must hack a music game.

All jokes aside, the more things getting in your way of being higher rank, the harder you have to play and the better you have to be to rank high.
So, in a way, all who are serious about this game should be thanking the bastards for increasing their skills!
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West

scenekidz wrote:

I have been noticing a lot of low level players with real high ranks
Can you clarify what you mean by "low level player" and "high rank"? I don't think I've seen a single player in top 1k pp that can't FC or at least pass a medium-difficulty insane with decent to high accuracy. Even those top 100 players considered "hard farmers" have some ridiculous records. and FYI not all hard difficulties are faceroll easy with mods. "Hard farmers" like silynn and shadowsoul have some HDDT records on hard diffs that are actually really difficult to pull off.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
What I find amazing is the amount of players who are just plain bad/terrible and keep commenting on some specific threads.

Meaning players with 1k/2k plays who can't even play Insanes, or those who keep playing Easies. x/
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

scenekidz wrote:

The question I have is this...Why would you hate on the PP farmers if there are actually lots of people out there who hack this game to get 100 percent SS on insane maps with all mods? I find it sad that people must hack a music game.
These guys tend to get caught and banned so it doesn't really affect anyone in any way.
Sup A Noob
555 posts
Joined November 2009
Sup A Noob

Wishy wrote:

What I find amazing is the amount of players who are just plain bad/terrible and keep commenting on some specific threads.

Meaning players with 1k/2k plays who can't even play Insanes, or those who keep playing Easies. x/
OR that they haven't been in the game long enough to even know what is farming.

For theirs and our sakes, I'd go through a little bit of ranking history, but I'm not prepared to waste my energy typing something no one is going to read.
pyon
27 posts
Joined January 2013
pyon
pp system sucks, period
louki
5 posts
Joined November 2012
louki
I hate when ppl farm top rank on low level song liek easy/normal/hard with triplemod etc. Like when i first start this game , i would be so glad to be in the top rank of a song beetwen those player on my level... They should put a level restriction or smthg like that on that pp system idk.
But I don't care about GOOD player farming pp on insane etc coz they don't really have nothing else to make this game harder.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

loukhz wrote:

I hate when ppl farm top rank on low level song liek easy/normal/hard with triplemod etc. Like when i first start this game , i would be so glad to be in the top rank of a song beetwen those player on my level... They should put a level restriction or smthg like that on that pp system idk.
But I don't care about GOOD player farming pp on insane etc coz they don't really have nothing else to make this game harder.
Most hards with triple mods are not that easy...
louki
5 posts
Joined November 2012
louki

Almost wrote:

loukhz wrote:

I hate when ppl farm top rank on low level song liek easy/normal/hard with triplemod etc. Like when i first start this game , i would be so glad to be in the top rank of a song beetwen those player on my level... They should put a level restriction or smthg like that on that pp system idk.
But I don't care about GOOD player farming pp on insane etc coz they don't really have nothing else to make this game harder.
Most hards with triple mods are not that easy...
Well it isn't but i feel like it's kinda lame for them to play hard while there are so many map harder with differents levels like another/special/TAG etc i mean...
KinkiN
2,626 posts
Joined March 2012
KinkiN

silmarilen wrote:

because pp is supposed to show skill, and if there are 3 hard farmers in the top10 above people that can 99% od10 high difficulty insanes, then its not very accurate.
its not so much the hard farmers that are hated, its the pp system that favours farming hards thats hated. if hards stopped giving so much pp nobody would complain.
That's why we have OWC

Also, it's not the pp that having a problem, maps difficulty is our problem here. Ex : i can got S nomod with only 1 100 on a map with4.98 star difficulty , but can't even all combo-ing a map that have fvcking jump but they only have 4.20 star difficulty. Some hards have 5.00 star difficulty , and some insanes have lower than 4.90 star difficulty

peppy also said : "If you think you're better than someone, beat some of their best performance!"

higher acc means higher scores. so it's normal to gain pp from getting a SS
Zehq_old
1 post
Joined May 2013
Zehq_old
I think an easy way to stop farmers a bit would be to change it from being in the top 600 ranks on a song to the top say %10 or something. So that people cant just get the newest songs which nobody has ever played and get a #100 rank on that song and boost their PP way up. Also it is extremely difficult to get in the #600 on the most played songs.
Icyteru
535 posts
Joined August 2011
Icyteru
well, pp farming is kinda useless now seeing how peppy created a new system called ppv2.

on that note, i dropped ~8400 ranks in ppv2, and almost(the user) dropped ~9400 ranks. peppy fix pls
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

[AirCoN] wrote:

well, pp farming is kinda useless now seeing how peppy created a new system called ppv2.

on that note, i dropped ~8400 ranks in ppv2, and almost(the user) dropped ~9400 ranks. peppy fix pls
I think 10k rank suits me. :3
kuigliii
13 posts
Joined October 2012
kuigliii
Yeah are we ever gonna get some more details on that ppv2 thing? I can't even find myself on that list if I enter my name and I would really like to see my best performances with that system :/
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
and yet another thread will be locked because ppv2

gg
Raging Bull
2,785 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Why am I still rank 600 in pp2
enik
276 posts
Joined December 2011
enik
what's ppv2 :?:
Knarf
541 posts
Joined August 2012
Knarf

enik wrote:

what's ppv2 :?:
t/144649
Koko Ban
234 posts
Joined January 2009
Koko Ban

winber1 wrote:

and yet another thread will be locked because ppv2

gg
don't like a thread? discuss ppv2 there. guraranteed lock!

in all seriousness though, i think this kind of ranking system shouldn't have existed in the first place. i admit i'm one of those hard map farmers you guys hate, if system didn't exist in the first place (or at least it wasn't this flawed), i wouldn't had forced to play in an "unhealthy" way because i obsess over numbers. i could try to "withdraw" and play insanes for fun, but as long as it's still there it would keep slapping my face telling me to go back. i wish one day it was gone...

it's like crack. too hard to resist.
Icyteru
535 posts
Joined August 2011
Icyteru
Actually, thread should be locked because topic is obsolete
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
ppv2 doesn't exist in other modes yet :P (And it's still in development, and it isn't really proven that ppv2 fixed pp farmers)

Not that I pp farm in CtB or anything >////<!~
Kalas_old
Kalas_old
farming ppv2 is now all about playing famous maps
Yarissa
587 posts
Joined September 2010
Yarissa
If you guys want this thread to live, I suggest scrapping the ppv2 discussion. It will devolve into baseless criticism and get locked.

My personal opinion on pp farmers (as a pp farmer):
While farming hards may not (keywords "may not") take very much skill, that doesn't change the fact that a good score on a hard is oftentimes more highly contested on the leaderboards than an insane. This means it will be more diffiicult to get good ranks, and thus, more difficult to rank up. The more farming and exploiting there is, the harder it is to retain or try for a good rank. If everyone attempted to pp farm, I think the leaderboards would be even more accurate. I think almost all players desire pp anyways (keywords "almost all"). I am by no means trying to say playing hards is super skillful, but I do think it requires a significant amount of skill. People will immediately judge pp farmers for having a lack of skill when I have seen these pp farmers play some crazy stuff. Take for instance ShadowSoul. He was widely known for being a pp farmer, but recently his plays have been REALLY pro. People still call him a pp farmer, but I personally think he deserves a spot in the top 20 (if not higher).

So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

Kaoru wrote:

If you guys want this thread to live, I suggest scrapping the ppv2 discussion. It will devolve into baseless criticism and get locked.

My personal opinion on pp farmers (as a pp farmer):
While farming hards may not (keywords "may not") take very much skill, that doesn't change the fact that a good score on a hard is oftentimes more highly contested on the leaderboards than an insane. This means it will be more diffiicult to get good ranks, and thus, more difficult to rank up. The more farming and exploiting there is, the harder it is to retain or try for a good rank. If everyone attempted to pp farm, I think the leaderboards would be even more accurate. I think almost all players desire pp anyways (keywords "almost all"). I am by no means trying to say playing hards is super skillful, but I do think it requires a significant amount of skill. People will immediately judge pp farmers for having a lack of skill when I have seen these pp farmers play some crazy stuff. Take for instance ShadowSoul. He was widely known for being a pp farmer, but recently his plays have been REALLY pro. People still call him a pp farmer, but I personally think he deserves a spot in the top 20 (if not higher).

So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
But you also have to remember that most hard farmers aren't pro such as myself. I farm hards a lot, but give me something actually difficult, and I will fail utterly.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani

Kaoru wrote:

So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
Unless you play CtB then it's like the easiest thing ever
Yarissa
587 posts
Joined September 2010
Yarissa

Almost wrote:

But you also have to remember that most hard farmers aren't pro such as myself. I farm hards a lot, but give me something actually difficult, and I will fail utterly.
That's the thing though. There are only a handful of well-known pp farmers. The ones with high ranks are usually able to pull off skillful plays. Maybe their plays may not be what you should expect from a high ranked player, but that doesn't change the fact that it does indeed require SOME skill
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Kaoru wrote:

While farming hards may not (keywords "may not") take very much skill, that doesn't change the fact that a good score on a hard is oftentimes more highly contested on the leaderboards than an insane. This means it will be more diffiicult to get good ranks, and thus, more difficult to rank up. The more farming and exploiting there is, the harder it is to retain or try for a good rank. If everyone attempted to pp farm, I think the leaderboards would be even more accurate. I think almost all players desire pp anyways (keywords "almost all"). I am by no means trying to say playing hards is super skillful, but I do think it requires a significant amount of skill. People will immediately judge pp farmers for having a lack of skill when I have seen these pp farmers play some crazy stuff. Take for instance ShadowSoul. He was widely known for being a pp farmer, but recently his plays have been REALLY pro. People still call him a pp farmer, but I personally think he deserves a spot in the top 20 (if not higher).

So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
I'm really not sure how you've come to think that farming [Hard]s makes it more difficult to rank up because 'often' the scoreboard is highly contested. I'm not even sure what led you to think that [Hard]s are highly contested. PP has shown itself to be quite random at times with what maps give it out or not, one time it might be a [Normal] from 2007, or a newly ranked [Insane]. It does however tend to give points from old, popular and [Hard]s more often than not but that's not to say all of those leader-boards are highly contested in the slightest.

I'm also unsure as to how PP would be more legitimate with even more farming, let alone everyone doing it. When there are huge flaws in the system like letting one lucky person who happened to spin 100 score more, or who achieved the SS first to get bonus points isn't right when the system is supposed to be in place to accurately rate the skill/performances of a player. I wonder how you differentiate between a super skillful player and one that is just significantly skilled? Because that immediately explains what you've said right after regarding judgement.

People look at you this way because you're setting scores that, in your words, 'require a significant amount of skill' but to a lot of people, the difference between that and the super-skilled player is just too large. People will always rate a random asian or happystick over any hard farmer because they don't have just 'some' crazy stuff, their scores are just completely filled with those types of scores. It only seems like you took SS has an example because he is one of two hard farmers in my opinion who can score consistently well on difficult maps. I guess this is what I have against farming, the attempt to justify doing so.
Yarissa
587 posts
Joined September 2010
Yarissa
Just because I am defending pp farming does not mean I think I am skillful because of it or deserve my rank because of it. I am well aware that there are FAR MORE than 50 players who are better than me, and I will by no means try to claim otherwise. I like to THINK I am a pretty good player (and that's what it comes down to: opinions), but I don't shove it in people's faces or let my arrogance get out of control. Any ranking system that exists is bound to be farmed or exploited in one manner or another. You're free to judge and criticize any of these players as you please. I'd just appreciate it if generalizations about us were avoided.

First off, I am by no means saying that the pp system is accurate. Every ranking system that is released will have some flaws, and someone SOMEWHERE is going to have a qualm with it EVEN IF it's nearing perfection. Now, not ALL hards are highly contested. I've just found that the maps that give good pp tend to have a lot of scores to beat. That seems to be a trend in pp maps. Maybe the maps were riddled with pro highscores BEFORE people found out it gave pp. Maybe they weren't. We'll never know. Some hards I've played have been truly difficult to get a top 6 score on due to the amount of people playing ar10.8+ or HD FL DT on that map. My point is not EVERY hard is easy to get a highscore on. And people seem to be quick to conclude that it's easy to get scores on those maps.

Here is my reasoning behind the legitimacy of everyone farming:
So, a player happens to stumble upon a pp map. Horay, he gets 100 pp and shares the map with all of his friends. His friends proceed to envy the ranks he got and attempt to set scores on the same map. If all of that players' friends were skilled players, there would be a handful of hard-to-beat scores on the leaderboard of that pp song. So now you, in turn, stumble upon the same map. If you're not skilled enough to beat the scores these skilled players set, the song won't yield as much pp. So if all the skilled players were farming, it would be increasingly hard to farm pp. Naturally, there are exceptions. For instance, anything that's easy to SS tends to give unfair amounts of pp. Pro players setting scores on these wouldn't make the system any more/ less difficult to farm.

And lastly, (yet again, in my opinion) you can't just compare every player in the top 100 (or should I even deign to say the top 250) to a pro player like thelewa or happystick. The differences will be astonishing, and a random top 250 player's accomplishments would pale in comparision to something thelewa could do with ease. Pro players like that are known for their consistency. That's what sets them apart from people who get occasional amazing plays. If those people are capable of making those amazing plays their achievements are by no means undermined by the fact that they can't make those amazing plays consitently.

So pretty much my point is that people tend to underestimate the difficulty of hard farming. While it may merely sound like justifications I do I have some very valid reasons why they are difficult. There are always exceptions to the matter and there are still quite a few easy maps that yield incredible amounts of pp. I'm not going to go out of my way to deny that. I just implore you guys to keep in mind that hard farming isn't as easy as people make it out to be.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost
Then you have people who HD HR FL hards which only takes a bit of time but isn't really difficult to do in any way and get easy rank 1s and lots of pp...
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Farming hards is easy compared to farming insanes. I always find hard difficulties where I myself could easily set a top 3 (if not 1) by just retrying a little bit, because they are not contested at all and the top score was set by either some pro on a first play or some farmer after many retries, I am not a very good player and my accuracy is terrible, yet I can still get top scores on lots of hard diffs without much effort, if I started actually doing so I would raise through the ranks A LOT, that would not mean I'm good or anything, it would just mean I'm a farmer.

On hards you gotta play against randomhardfarmer123, on hard insanes you usually play against the best player, and even if you beat one of the best players you don't get much more pp (do you even get more) than when you beat randomhardfarmer123.

The solution is simple tho, it should not matter who you beat, but how hard to do your record is, aka osutp.

PD: I still find some random one play DT [Hards] on my best performances lol. This DT (http://osu.ppy.sh/b/106469?m=0) is apparently worth more than this (http://osu.ppy.sh/b/105293?m=0), both being first plays, yet I think it's quite clear that one is way harder than the other one.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Kaoru wrote:

Just because I am defending pp farming does not mean I think I am skillful because of it or deserve my rank because of it. I am well aware that there are FAR MORE than 50 players who are better than me, and I will by no means try to claim otherwise. I like to THINK I am a pretty good player (and that's what it comes down to: opinions), but I don't shove it in people's faces or let my arrogance get out of control. Any ranking system that exists is bound to be farmed or exploited in one manner or another. You're free to judge and criticize any of these players as you please. I'd just appreciate it if generalizations about us were avoided.

First off, I am by no means saying that the pp system is accurate. Every ranking system that is released will have some flaws, and someone SOMEWHERE is going to have a qualm with it EVEN IF it's nearing perfection. Now, not ALL hards are highly contested. I've just found that the maps that give good pp tend to have a lot of scores to beat. That seems to be a trend in pp maps. Maybe the maps were riddled with pro highscores BEFORE people found out it gave pp. Maybe they weren't. We'll never know. Some hards I've played have been truly difficult to get a top 6 score on due to the amount of people playing ar10.8+ or HD FL DT on that map. My point is not EVERY hard is easy to get a highscore on. And people seem to be quick to conclude that it's easy to get scores on those maps.

Here is my reasoning behind the legitimacy of everyone farming:
So, a player happens to stumble upon a pp map. Horay, he gets 100 pp and shares the map with all of his friends. His friends proceed to envy the ranks he got and attempt to set scores on the same map. If all of that players' friends were skilled players, there would be a handful of hard-to-beat scores on the leaderboard of that pp song. So now you, in turn, stumble upon the same map. If you're not skilled enough to beat the scores these skilled players set, the song won't yield as much pp. So if all the skilled players were farming, it would be increasingly hard to farm pp. Naturally, there are exceptions. For instance, anything that's easy to SS tends to give unfair amounts of pp. Pro players setting scores on these wouldn't make the system any more/ less difficult to farm.

And lastly, (yet again, in my opinion) you can't just compare every player in the top 100 (or should I even deign to say the top 250) to a pro player like thelewa or happystick. The differences will be astonishing, and a random top 250 player's accomplishments would pale in comparision to something thelewa could do with ease. Pro players like that are known for their consistency. That's what sets them apart from people who get occasional amazing plays. If those people are capable of making those amazing plays their achievements are by no means undermined by the fact that they can't make those amazing plays consitently.

So pretty much my point is that people tend to underestimate the difficulty of hard farming. While it may merely sound like justifications I do I have some very valid reasons why they are difficult. There are always exceptions to the matter and there are still quite a few easy maps that yield incredible amounts of pp. I'm not going to go out of my way to deny that. I just implore you guys to keep in mind that hard farming isn't as easy as people make it out to be.
I really hate to jump on the 'TP is perfection omg' bandwagon right now but really, what are the flaws that it currently has that are rather large? Patterns and maybe underestimating the difficulty of fast 1/2s with changing directions/spacing. Maybe it's that you agree with ppy when it comes to a ranking system, that it needs some sort of relative comparing going on with map popularity etc, all of which doesn't attribute to the difficulty within the .osu.

I'm kind of guessing in this part but I assume that because all of these 'skilled' players have set high scores on this hypothetical map, that the popularity of the map would have increased, and also since this new player who wasn't as skilled as the others who recently set new scores, you say he doesn't get any reward, or at least, very much of it anyway. I have a hard time following this as pp does attempt to relatively compare players on a map, in other words, it wouldn't penalize your possible reward if you were lower in rank (which I'm assuming is lower skill in this case too) than if you were near equal to or higher ranked compared to the players who set these new scores.

I guarantee you that I'm not underestimating the difficulty of farming. Early this year I scouted out a few of Team USA's 'Best Performances' and went from #100 to #60 in a few hours. Your reasons for them being difficult don't stem from the maps being difficult themselves, but instead because one player retried it more or got lucky for that one SS run. I would not call those valid reasons. I don't think I'll refrain from generalizing farmers as a bunch of players who compensated for their low ranks by gaming the system, regardless if it was made this way or not. At least, not until they prove that they are able to pull off good scores in a number of different areas as SG and SS both have.
Hello Skitty
155 posts
Joined March 2013
Hello Skitty
Why do you care so much about pp farmers

I mean, everyone who knows a bit about the game knows who the real pros are, pp is pretty much mocked by everyone
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
Are people really arguing that people who get #1 hard scores should be in the same league as those who are fighting for the top 10 on insanes? That's like comparing climbing a mountain to walking to the store. In 1-3 tries, most decent players can score a pp heavy rank on a hard, with a #1 usually within 10 tries. If you've seen people going for Top 10 on Insanes however, even the best players will have to retry many, many times before they even hit Top 20. On top of that, the songs are generally harder to pass in general.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

Mithost wrote:

In 1-3 tries, most decent players can score a pp heavy rank on a hard, with a #1 usually within 10 tries.
no.

unless you are some accuracy whore/pro, this cannot be applied to all hards, especially ones with high pp yield, because these maps are the ones most contested for. for maybe those about around rank #2000+, it probably isn't that hard. However, once you reach like under #1000, it really isn't as easy as that. Farming Hards up to #50 is really actually not that easy.

This has nothing to with "oh, he's rank #30 but this actual pro is only rank like #120." Generally people already know the who the pros are, and the thread is mostly about why are pp farmers annoying to most people, and the most common answer is because they don't deserve their rank and everyone says it's easy to farm up to high ranks. It's not about what a player's actual rank should be. Like Kaoru said, I do believe that it truly isn't as easy to farm up to top like 250 as people think, though I will agree that obviously playing only insane maps and getting there is a much harder feat.

Those who actually farm their way up to top 250 are also definitely good players. You can't really look down at them for being completely undeserving. Those who actual farm from like top 200 to like top 50 are not able to farm up to there because they are only sub-decent players--they are able to farm up that quickly because they are actually pretty damn good players. Maybe not pro level, but I guarantee you there is no way they are sub-par at this game.

Also, I couldn't care less right now about my rank. too hard to raise gg, which is also partly why i don't care about pp farmers because i don't even care that much about rank. Also I generally know who is a pp farmer and who isn't, and whether or not they are higher rank or not, I couldn't care less since most people know who they are anyway.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

winber1 wrote:

Those who actually farm their way up to top 250 are also definitely good players. You can't really look down at them for being completely undeserving. Those who actual farm from like top 200 to like top 50 are not able to farm up to there because they are only sub-decent players--they are able to farm up that quickly because they are actually pretty damn good players. Maybe not pro level, but I guarantee you there is no way they are sub-par at this game.
People who farm their way to top 250 by playing HD HR FL on hards are undeserving I think since getting a HD HR FL score is easier but more time consuming than achieving an SS with HD DT like KaODia. You really don't even need to be able to play AR9.8/10 proficiently to be able to set top scores with it.
Defacer
131 posts
Joined October 2011
Defacer

skiter43 wrote:

Why do you care so much about pp farmers

I mean, everyone who knows a bit about the game knows who the real pros are, pp is pretty much mocked by everyone
Your logic is correct but in reality it only applies to really high skilled players with relatively low rank like H4ppySt1ck or Elysion or listless or a couple of asians there.There are real talents in the ranks 2000--5000 not to mention the random asians.And I guess it's frustrating for a hard working player to find himself so low on rankings and at the same time a person who only learned HD and ACC doing the same pattern over and over again to be so high in the ranking.I admit I can't, generally suck at acc & hd and I like & play crazy maps, not sped up(DT) patterns for normal/hard diff so I give credit to them guys.

I am pretty sure all the well known ''farmers'' are good guys(and are certainly better than me and many others claiming that they are noobs), it's just the system that makes them look shitty.Same like when judging an artist by its audience(although usually the artist is aiming at certain audiences sometimes not), or football team by it's fans.It is natural to hate farmers because of the shitty system.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
you shouldn't underestimate the HD HR FL players imo. They are better than you think. Can't say that they are pro, but as I said, you really can't underestimate the farmers.

How deserving they are for their rank is another matter, as I already said. I'm merely supporting the fact that pp farmers aren't trash players at all.
Yarissa
587 posts
Joined September 2010
Yarissa
I don't really like arguing over this, but I think winber has some very valid points. The reason I personally farm is because my rank is a token of the time I invested into this game (as opposed to a testament to my actual skill). After all, my rank is reflected in the client and on the website since pp is the official ranking system. If tp was adopted as the official ranking system, I would do my best to raise my ranks in tp. Regardless, I don't think any ranking system will ever properly gauge skill. At the very least, it can come close. I don't disagree with the fact that the tp system is currently the most accurate system but it has its flaws as well. Jappy, you even pointed those flaws out. There are quite a few maps that are poorly weighed.

Also I have no idea how the pp system works as far as comparing players on a map goes. I still think that (regardless of player rank) that the more highscores there are on a map the harder it is to get a good highscore.

I do think there's a handful of farmers that try hard for their scores and SSs. But I see some players (such as Andrea) who can consistently SS maps. If you've ever wanted to get an SS on a high OD map with like 700 combo or so, you would know how aggravating and time consuming it is to try and SS. I have to admit I'm pretty impressed when I see a player get an SS in their first few tries on a map. Not to mention some of the Hards that yield pp are incredibly difficult 2key maps with 280+ BPM mapped in 1/2. (Here's an example off the top of my head: jippusu - Heisei Kataku Rhythm). And the higher your pp gets the harder it is to gain pp from cheesy plays like a random #1 on an uncontested hard. I've set a handful of #1s that were difficult. It's frustrating when those #1s yield little to no pp at all. It's not always as easy as just playing the first hard you see, getting #1, and watching your pp fly off the charts. It would be nice if it was.

I sincerely wish that map difficulty was properly weighed by whatever ranking system peppy adopts with ppv2. I want the official ranking system to be acknowledged as a good one- not one that is easily farmed. One where a high rank is actually a reflection of your skill. I'd like more than anything to have a high rank with that one, too, since people tend to look down on the fact that I farmed.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
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