I doubt this will work as well as you might have imagined.
TVO made a good point about repeating sliders.
TVO made a good point about repeating sliders.
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Add Toggle for Slider Behavior on Hidden (standard mode)
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how about only hiding the slider track then, and having the slider ends and repeats still visible?TheVileOne wrote:
I still don't like this idea.
How would you solve the problem with repeat sliders?
If a slider repeats, all repeating sliders would be already hidden. If the repeating part was visible, then it would be inconsistent with the normal behaviour of sliders. I do not think it would be a good idea to obscure how many times something repeats especially when it's impossible to tell when the slider ends if it were hidden.
The stacks would still be > at least a bit < easier to read, and you could still see repeats
why wouldn't it work as stated in the OP? if you have a 9 note stream that does a 180 on itself on the 5th note and let's say 3 notes at any one time are invisible, you'd have 4, 5 and 6 invisible, which leaves 3/5 notes visible(because it 180s itself like a repeat slider) which differs from the 2/5 visible notes you'd see at the time you hit the first or last notes of the stream (1 or 9). i'd assume the same thing would occur with repeat sliders, when it is repeating, more of it will end up being visible. on repeat sliders in the middle of streams or something, yeah it'd probably be too fast to notice and tbh would look like how sliders already are but we can only speculate. real talk.TheVileOne wrote:
If a slider repeats, all repeating sliders would be already hidden. If the repeating part was visible, then it would be inconsistent with the normal behaviour of sliders. I do not think it would be a good idea to obscure how many times something repeats especially when it's impossible to tell when the slider ends if it were hidden.
Topic Starter
There is no problem with repeat sliders. Just make it fade normally.
Slider start appear, slider body appears, slider end + repeat arrow appear, slider start is already fading away, slider body appears again ("new" body even that it's the same one) while the old one fades away... etc. it will basically be the same as a crumpled slider that moves onto itself, only with repeat arrows on the edges. I see no problem.
You're read it by planning ahead what to do based on the information that briefly appeared, same as you normally do with circles on hidden.
Slider start appear, slider body appears, slider end + repeat arrow appear, slider start is already fading away, slider body appears again ("new" body even that it's the same one) while the old one fades away... etc. it will basically be the same as a crumpled slider that moves onto itself, only with repeat arrows on the edges. I see no problem.
You're read it by planning ahead what to do based on the information that briefly appeared, same as you normally do with circles on hidden.
Constantly drawing and undrawing sliders sounds demanding to me. Hidden might lag on certain systems. If snaking sliders can be disabled, this sounds like it would be more intensive than that.
Stacking under sliders is readable, if some players can't do it that just means they are bad at it. Even many random traps can be sight-played by using followpoints.
Anyways I'm somewhat supporting this as a new mod, as well as I'm supporting fixing all bonuses of all mods since every single one of them is broken. Supporting this change only if it comes with a complete rework of every mod (meaning bonuses).
Anyways I'm somewhat supporting this as a new mod, as well as I'm supporting fixing all bonuses of all mods since every single one of them is broken. Supporting this change only if it comes with a complete rework of every mod (meaning bonuses).
I can think of exactly 3 maps that have hitcircles invisibly hidden under sliderbodies on Hidden , and all of them are from 2007 or 2008. This wouldn't help THAT much, I imagine, but it'd still be a cool visual effect.
Topic Starter
Mappers intentionally try to avoid this now as they're aware of the issue with HD.MillhioreF wrote:
I can think of exactly 3 maps that have hitcircles invisibly hidden under sliderbodies on Hidden , and all of them are from 2007 or 2008.
Had the issue not been there, more mapping possibilities would open up.
Would be nice to keep the slider ball though... hard to tell the speed without it.
Topic Starter
Learn to read the ticks. You're not supposed to tell the speed by reaction, the game provides you with information to read it ahead of time.Oinari-sama wrote:
Would be nice to keep the slider ball though... hard to tell the speed without it.
I always felt like the reason for sliders not working like this was due to performance issues.
I'm pretty sure this is the reason. Sliders to fade from one end to the other would be a lot more demanding on the system than just fading the whole object. Snaking sliders are significantly less demanding, and they're still optional due to performance issues.knjiga wrote:
I always felt like the reason for sliders not working like this was due to performance issues.
It would be nice to at least see this implemented in the test build or some other form so people can see how it actually plays and how it impacts performance. Personally I'm kind of finding it awkward trying to imagine how playing like this would be.
If this gets added a new amount for bonus score ( 0,06 ) should be be added too,
It gets harder so it should be higher.
It gets harder so it should be higher.
I disagree. I'm sure everyone would agree that Hardrock is harder than Hidden mod, and currently they're at the same score multiplier. This would make it more even.Cloudio-san wrote:
If this gets added a new amount for bonus score ( 0,06 ) should be be added too,
It gets harder so it should be higher.
It depends. Always.theowest wrote:
I disagree. I'm sure everyone would agree that Hardrock is harder than Hidden mod, and currently they're at the same score multiplier. This would make it more even.Cloudio-san wrote:
If this gets added a new amount for bonus score ( 0,06 ) should be be added too,
It gets harder so it should be higher.
But I actually don't see how this would make Hidden harder. You wouldn't see the slider track, but if you can read fading circles you can read fading sliders as well. It's not like you actually directly look at every slider when playing Hidden. It's more like you realize it's there and then instantly look for the next object.
There are exceptions, of course.
please no.
.
.
"1. Remove the layer of memorization from HD which is not in spirit of this mod."
because longer sliders totally won't require memorization
because longer sliders totally won't require memorization
plus, sliders with weird shape and high sv will be a pain to follow
[Luanny] wrote:
please no.
.
Topic Starter
why, what? long sliders will not require any more memorization than a line of 1/2 circles.Blue Dragon wrote:
because longer sliders totally won't require memorization
LEARN TO READ TICKS
What's this tick thingy?
Topic Starter
Every red/blue line indicates one movement of a 1/2 on the timeline. I guess most people don't actually read aim and just lazily flow on dots!
But if you read aim this style of HD is wonderful and completely readable. Memorizing long sliders? pfft, more like, learn to read sliders.
The fade on sliders should follow the tick rate the same way it follows tempo as circles fade and it reads exactly the same way too. If you can read circles on HD there's no reason you wouldn't be able to read sliders with this HD style.
These are hard to follow anyway, even w/o HD.[Luanny] wrote:
plus, sliders with weird shape and high sv will be a pain to follow
Also, with Hidden it would be similar to fast spaced streams, they are just as hard to follow.
the problem is when it's too fast to be sightreadable, most long sliders have some unpredictable shapes (e.g. Why Am I So Angry), that'd be pretty much impossible to FC +HD unless you memorize all of them. And since you guys are trying to take out the "memorization" part, it doesn't make much sense.
If the slider will disappear progressively then you shoudln't have any trouble.
You mean like a collapsing bridge in movie/anime instead of the whole bar just vanish? That could work.Wishy wrote:
If the slider will disappear progressively then you shoudln't have any trouble.
You should read the OP. That's exactly what Aqo requested..Oinari-sama wrote:
You mean like a collapsing bridge in movie/anime instead of the whole bar just vanish? That could work.Wishy wrote:
If the slider will disappear progressively then you shoudln't have any trouble.
Topic Starter
Yes exactly.
Sliders don't fade instantly, they fade over time following the rate of the ticks which produces exactly the same fade effect as what circles get.
Try to look at how a spaced stream looks on HD, this is pretty much how sliders should look like with this.
Sliders don't fade instantly, they fade over time following the rate of the ticks which produces exactly the same fade effect as what circles get.
Try to look at how a spaced stream looks on HD, this is pretty much how sliders should look like with this.
Also, this seems like a shameless attempt from "boohoo FL sucks" "pro"-players to remove HD+FL from all scoreboards, because it will be completely impossible on most maps.
I don't support this because of various reason..... Please don't make this happen.
No this just seems like a shitty, bad idea for people to waste stars on.Blue Dragon wrote:
Also, this seems like a shameless attempt from "boohoo FL sucks" "pro"-players to remove HD+FL from all scoreboards, because it will be completely impossible on most maps.
Mind explaining what's bad about it, except for the fact that it's...a change?jesus1412 wrote:
No this just seems like a shitty, bad idea for people to waste stars on.Blue Dragon wrote:
Also, this seems like a shameless attempt from "boohoo FL sucks" "pro"-players to remove HD+FL from all scoreboards, because it will be completely impossible on most maps.
Topic Starter
FLHD will work exactly as it did before. You still have to memorize the map.Blue Dragon wrote:
Also, this seems like a shameless attempt from "boohoo FL sucks" "pro"-players to remove HD+FL from all scoreboards, because it will be completely impossible on most maps.
Besides what's the problem if this is added as a toggle a.la. same style as DT/NC and SD/PF? People who like old HD can use old HD, people who want new HD use new HD, both have same multiplier of 1.06.
new HD should have a higher multiplier for HDFL then
following sliders with FL is ok, nothing so hard but FL with this new hd... you simply doesn't know where to go lol this is unfair
again, sliders with weird shape will be impossible to follow
memorizing notes placement is easier than memorizing shapes
you just need to go straight to the next note. for sliders you need to know exactly where you're going, aka it will be even harder
if this is added as a new mod it is ok.
following sliders with FL is ok, nothing so hard but FL with this new hd... you simply doesn't know where to go lol this is unfair
again, sliders with weird shape will be impossible to follow
memorizing notes placement is easier than memorizing shapes
you just need to go straight to the next note. for sliders you need to know exactly where you're going, aka it will be even harder
if this is added as a new mod it is ok.
Topic Starter
Let me say this again[Luanny] wrote:
you simply doesn't know where to
again, sliders with weird shape will be impossible to follow
learn to read ticks
they give you an indication of where to move the same way as circles do
I will have no problem following the weirdest sliders on shotgun symphony+ with this HD style because I can simply plan the movement on their ticks and it's easy as hell.
For somebody who has no trouble reading sliders, this HD isn't any harder than regular HD, thus it should have the exact same multiplier. This HD is more convenient in dealing with stacks under sliders as well as dealing with consistency of AR, neither of which is a real difficulty, it's more like fake difficulty that is - right now - solved by grinding/memorization and this style of HD would allow to remove this memorization aspect and allow people to enjoy HD in the true spirit of the mod (which is short-term planning ahead).
it would certainly be fun just to try it out, on the test build perhaps.
why am i so angry [nogard].Aqo wrote:
Let me say this again[Luanny] wrote:
you simply doesn't know where to
again, sliders with weird shape will be impossible to follow
learn to read ticks
they give you an indication of where to move the same way as circles do
I will have no problem following the weirdest sliders on shotgun symphony+ with this HD style because I can simply plan the movement on their ticks and it's easy as hell.
For somebody who has no trouble reading sliders, this HD isn't any harder than regular HD, thus it should have the exact same multiplier. This HD is more convenient in dealing with stacks under sliders as well as dealing with consistency of AR, neither of which is a real difficulty, it's more like fake difficulty that is - right now - solved by grinding/memorization and this style of HD would allow to remove this memorization aspect and allow people to enjoy HD in the true spirit of the mod (which is short-term planning ahead).
the ending.
okay, all of your arguments are invalid, you can lock this thread now.
.