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[Proposal] Separate music genres from source of said music.

posted
Total Posts
14
Krisom
osu! Alumni
2,867 posts
Joined April 2009
Topic Starter
Krisom
Ok, this is something that has been discussed since before I left back in 2014, but I might as well raise it again.

VGM and Anime are not music Genres; however, the website suggests to use those right now.

help/wiki/Beatmaps/Genre_and_language


Video Game
Made for or made popular by a video game. This is also used for arrangements and remixes of those songs.

Anime
Made for or made popular by an anime or similar medium.


I would suggest something like this...





That way, we could ideally remove once and for all Anime and VGM from Genre, and add a "Type" section that can allow for more customisation, like Anime, VGM, Movie OST, TV Series, Cartoon, Youtube Series and others.

If this is too much, just plain old remove VGM and Anime from genres and adapt the website so that metadata rules are more clear.

Thoughts?
[-Evil-]
405 posts
Joined May 2017
[-Evil-]
I highly agree with this, since having Anime and Video Game as a genre might cause confusion, these being on a separate would be helpful at hand when searching songs in a more specific way.

Also I can suggest adding stuff like "Meme"? Since out there are a lot of meme songs like the III world war map and many others. Being the most specific possible its more handy for players to find their favorite maps. So in conclusion I agree with Krisom's proposal! Hope this gets somewhere.
Last edited by [-Evil-] , edited 1 time in total.
Kyumo
190 posts
Joined June 2019
Kyumo
owo evil and krisom osu :3c (also agree with this btw great idea)
Last edited by Kyumo , edited 1 time in total.
Zelzatter Zero
3,984 posts
Joined October 2016
Zelzatter Zero
Putting Type next to Source can cause a problem when the Source name is too long (*cough* Every anime name in the nutshell). Doesn't mean I won't support this tho, but I think the format should be revamped if implementing this.
GPR
480 posts
Joined August 2017
GPR
I think this will need a huge change in dev side (especially database).
[-Evil-]
405 posts
Joined May 2017
[-Evil-]

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

Putting Type next to Source can cause a problem when the Source name is too long (*cough* Every anime name in the nutshell). Doesn't mean I won't support this tho, but I think the format should be revamped if implementing this.
I think this is just some idea, not just how he wants it to be, I can be worked out yes, but thats part of the dev team to think of, I have the same concerns but the important thing is the idea of adding a new metadata section that is "Type"
chowch
43 posts
Joined February 2018
chowch
agree, might take time to recategorize everything though
TheKingHenry
1,665 posts
Joined October 2014
TheKingHenry
Unless I've misunderstood something, we are already supposed to not use those as genres? They just exist for now. So basically we already have this main proposal idea, just that the source types are in tags, not in a data field of their own. Whether or not that should be done or could be beneficial to do is another discussion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last edited by TheKingHenry , edited 1 time in total.
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect
i agree with this fully

although this song and this song are both from the same anime, without the context of you knowing what tpn is, i'd doubt you'd see these as the same genre.

and also, a lot of mappers include the genre of song of anime maps (like uhh they include pop even if it's technically an anime song)

i actually don't see any problem with this, i just think there might need to be more options (like TV Show, Movie, etc etc) and an Other option for songs like this
Juuuuuuuuul
1,283 posts
Joined March 2018
Juuuuuuuuul
I agree with this proposal.
We need precise categorizations.

But what about for example, Zun's music ? (original Touhou music)
Also, may Chiptune be considered as a genre ? if yes, we need it.

And, some music have multiple genres, for example, electro-folk.
How to deal with those case?
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,107 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
anime is a genre. seriously. stuff like beatmapsets/1172564#osu/2445684 or beatmapsets/1054715#osu/2203826 or any number of similar songs by artists like ReoNa or LiSA or whatever all fit into the "anime song" genre despite not being literally used in an anime.
things should be labeled as anime genre not if they are actually in an anime or not, but if they are in the anime song genre - therefore, stuff which is clearly some other genre but happens to also be used in an anime would not be labeled as anime but as whatever its genre is, and songs which are actually anime song type songs would be labeled as anime.
the entire point of the genre system is to group similar sounding songs together, so using the anime genre for the anison artists makes perfect sense.

video game as a genre does not make too much sense, since the meaning is too broad and basically covers almost anything from bms songs to touhou remixes regardless of actual musical style; rhythm game as a genre would be a better option, to cover songs in the style made popular by konami games, for example.

overall, genre settings should aim to unify certain musical styles, so overly broad genres are not useful (which is why labeling every single anime song as pop or rock when there are significantly more rock or pop-y songs that don't follow the "generic anime song" style doesn't make any sense)
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect

Nao Tomori wrote:

anime is a genre. seriously. stuff like beatmapsets/1172564#osu/2445684 or beatmapsets/1054715#osu/2203826 or any number of similar songs by artists like ReoNa or LiSA or whatever all fit into the "anime song" genre despite not being literally used in an anime.
things should be labeled as anime genre not if they are actually in an anime or not, but if they are in the anime song genre - therefore, stuff which is clearly some other genre but happens to also be used in an anime would not be labeled as anime but as whatever its genre is, and songs which are actually anime song type songs would be labeled as anime.
the entire point of the genre system is to group similar sounding songs together, so using the anime genre for the anison artists makes perfect sense.
but then stuff like beatmapsets/17252 and beatmapsets/48366 (old examples, ik ik) wouldn't be considered anime songs if you're classifying anime songs as, "japanese songs that get your blood pumping," when these songs i sent are the exact opposite. reona and lisa might be well known for making anime songs, but even they have songs they made that aren't for anime, and those songs shouldn't be considered "anime songs"

but with the whole mordred genre change situation, i think we shouldn't use the anime and video game tags. once they add the source type, then i think it'll be good from there
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
it's all gonna be reworked soon, not quite as simple as adding another field with static data because then we'd run into the exact same problems that make genre and language so annoying. this also isn't really related to RC.

for now, keep using these genres as indicated on the wiki page (should be the same as all previous ranked maps). it'll be easier to migrate later if you keep them consistent in the meantime
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
having a type/medium/extra whatever category would be nice, i think most people agree

there's an open issue on osu-web for this where conversation would be better, since it's more of a concern for devs than the ranking criteria https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/issues/5852#issuecomment-616219839 (there isn't much more to say on the topic than what's mentioned on that thread though)

that said, closing this thread
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