Introduction

I've recently started using a skin after playing for 2 years without one, and I feel there are unnecessary restrictions to using a custom skin and overall the system feels stiff, and unoptimized. Skin options should be dynamic, and better integrated into the game. I've seen threads suggesting we be able to choose to use only this part of a skin or only that part of a skin, and being able to choose cursors on the fly. All of these things should be possible in a fully integrated approach to using skins.

The Idea

Being able to manage custom skin elements on a per element level rather than a per folder level.

This would allow mixing and matching of skin elements, but it doesn't need to be able to do that. The real importance to have this option is basically to separate the cursor from the menu options, the drain things from the hitcircles elements. It will be more efficient to reload part of a skin, than it would to reload the whole thing. A further optimization would be a preloaded skin, either the osu or some other skin waiting already loaded to allow for quick switching out for skins.

Basically I believe this will improve the accessibility of skins, while at the same time making it quicker and easier to change skins on the fly. osu just needs to have a way to change skins outside of Options. If we're in multiplayer, it's frustrating to have to deal with having to leave the room, traversing multiple windows to go to Options to change skins, then go back through multiple rooms and hope the game hasn't started. Or we can just deal with it, and have our experience degraded by having a skin that does not fit the song we are playing.

If there are no plans to make the Options changeable from other modes, then a Change Skins button is essential for multiplayer use. I know it's possible already to load skins outside of options, osu does it for you when a song requests to use a certain skin. It will load it for you if it detects it in your list of skins. I see no reason that we can't choose ourselves which skins to use if the game already has the ability of choosing.

If we were to have such an ability, the skin selecting process needs to be more optimized. It takes a considerable amount of process time to change skins and I feel that after awhile at least for me, the skin preview window is just a waste of resources. We should have the option to disable skin preview to save some unnecessary resource usage.

Another benefit of skin integration, is that we can choose to disable/enable any skin element or option if we wanted to. If we wanted to play with the default cursor, or play without a custom spinner, then we could just disable it. We could even do this as a per map level. It would be impractical to list each custom skin element used individually, but it would be a good idea to separate skins into groups of things players might want to disable. If the spinner is distracting, why do we need to deal with losing the custom hitcircles and combo bursts as well?

peppy wouldn't it be a better idea to let people disable only the things they don't like. That way, players could still appreciate the mapper's efforts at least partly. I know not allowing this may seem like a punishment for using them, but disabling everything good, seems to go against the general reasoning you had against fun spoiler elements.

It would also be a good idea to allow us to set preferred skins for each modes. Elements designed for different gamemodes should be loaded separately. This way we could choose different skins for each gamemode. A small, but immensely useful option that I'm sure many would love, as there is currently a request for this (two actually).

The last thing I want to mention about the ways skins are handled is the autoloading skins for beatmaps that request it. Is there anyway we could override this or disable it? I don't quite agree with forcing players to use one custom skin over another if it isn't specifically made for the map in mind. It's not an issue of promoting mapper creativity, the mapper is borrowing the creativity from someone else. It is not a method of expression, more than an old way for people to add a skin without having to put the effort into making one themselves.

Related Ideas
Skin global override folder
Ability to change cursor seperately from skins
One cursor for all skins
Seperate Skins for osu!/Taiko/CtB/mania modes
Fun Spoiler Change: about skins
Custom Catch the Beat (CTB) characters chooser (WITH IMAGE)
Force Default Skin in Editor
Automatically Shift to Normal osu! Skin when in Editor


TL;DR

Fully integrate and optimize the skin management process, so that we can choose which parts of a skin we can disable, as well as allow a way to choose certain skin elements separately from the skin. I also want a better handling of skin preview, and a way to change skins through other windows such as multiplayer, and a way to address the autoloading of skins by beatmaps that request them. This would also allow per gamemode skin options which would be great! In other words, lots of good things.

I think you are asking too many things at once. Per-element skin selection would be cool, as i have a skin for fast-recognition and another for hidden, being the only differences the hitcircle and the sliderstyle, so what i propose is that you can put the extra files or elements that you want to change as... Cursor2.png for example (just put a 2 after the name).

I know this idea is far reaching. It's a culmination of all the skin related ideas that I think need to be in the game at some point or another. This idea started frm the idea about being able to uncheck the use skin's sampleset option per difficulty. It evolved into a cure all idea or skin integration.

Why suggest that one part of the skin options be settable outside of options when every part of skin selecting should be settable outside of options?

My idea breaks down into two core ideas, both related to skin integration: Skin options outside the Options window, and breaking the skins down into smaller groups for optimization purposes and as a side effect it would meet the requests of several feature requests. This thread is a press for an overhaul of the skin selection process in osu!, because it's needed.

if we want issues on skinning be resolved, we need a new skinning system. I mean, a complete remake of how skins are handled, created, stored, reloaded, and shown. And in my opinion, having skinners an option to create xml files for their skin would be helpful. There you will define anchor points of each element, define how each screen looks like, define where ranking tabs/scores/hp bar/combo/etc. will appear and maybe define the transition and animations between screens. Just like how skins work in ttpod. There, a skin is composed of 2 files: nameOfSkin.xml and nameOfSkin.mbm where the mbm file contains the images and masks while the xml file defines how each panel looks and what animation/transition to apply. This system will allow the most customization of skins although it takes a lot to be able to make it happen.

This system would fix the part 1 of your request, but not the second. I mean, what's the point of mixing and matching skins if they're themed differently? If you really want to do a remake, it's possible to make one with copy paste. Creating a new skin remake will be much easier since you only have to pick the skin you remade and not to rematch everything again when changing skins.

(although I don't think I got all of your points there, so correct me if I'm wrong)

Simple:

If we want to disable some part of a skin but not others through Fun spoilers, we cannot do this unless we can use two skins at once. We cannot hotswap in the default osu skin if we wanted to. Such a system would make such a thing easier to implement. People want to choose their own cursors, which this idea would address. We should have the option to choose our own combo bursts, spinners, hitbursts, and cursors separately as frankensteining skins is a pain, and doesn't work for skin switching. The reason is that these elements don't always need to go together, and we're assuming that all skins are made with a theme. there are single element skin packs out there.

The game wouldn't have to load taiko/ctb/mania portions of a skin upon reload/load unless you're playing that gamemode. It gets better, one could choose a skin to use for each gamemode separately. Right now you'll have to incorporate all the skin elements for each gamemode into the same skin which is just annoying if you're a multi-skin user, or one who likes to jumps around.

My last point, if you are still not clear about my intentions. I think it would be helpful to give us the choose to reload each element individually or as a group through a skin loading window. There would be a list of skin elements and we could click on an element and decide whether to change it with another elements from any of the skins we have downloaded. Imagine being able to see all the custom cursors from all the skin packs you have at once, and being able to choose which one you want. the same for spinners, combo bursts, numbers etc. we could still use an entire theme of elements if we wanted, but we would also be able to choose which parts we dislike and be able to customize to our liking. Instead of dealing with it on a folder level, we would be able to do it in game, easily accessible from whatever window we're at.

That will be a true integration of the skin system in osu!. If the system isn't customizable, or accessible outside of the non-game related main menu, then the system lacks functionality. Implementation of all of these ideas would make osu! a better game, and that's my point.

TheVileOne wrote:

If we want to disable some part of a skin but not others through Fun spoilers, we cannot do this unless we can use two skins at once. We cannot hotswap in the default osu skin if we wanted to. Such a system would make such a thing easier to implement. People want to choose their own cursors, which this idea would address. We should have the option to choose our own combo bursts, spinners, hitbursts, and cursors separately as frankensteining skins is a pain, and doesn't work for skin switching. The reason is that these elements don't always need to go together, and we're assuming that all skins are made with a theme. there are single element skin packs out there.

wait, so you want a Skin Changing Menu in the funspoiler?

TheVileOne wrote:

The game wouldn't have to load taiko/ctb/mania portions of a skin upon reload/load unless you're playing that gamemode. It gets better, one could choose a skin to use for each gamemode separately. Right now you'll have to incorporate all the skin elements for each gamemode into the same skin which is just annoying if you're a multi-skin user, or one who likes to jumps around.

I don't really care about the reloading thing. But if we were able to change each element manually, wouldn't this be useless?

TheVileOne wrote:

My last point, if you are still not clear about my intentions. I think it would be helpful to give us the choose to reload each element individually or as a group through a skin loading window. There would be a list of skin elements and we could click on an element and decide whether to change it with another elements from any of the skins we have downloaded. Imagine being able to see all the custom cursors from all the skin packs you have at once, and being able to choose which one you want. the same for spinners, combo bursts, numbers etc. we could still use an entire theme of elements if we wanted, but we would also be able to choose which parts we dislike and be able to customize to our liking. Instead of dealing with it on a folder level, we would be able to do it in game, easily accessible from whatever window we're at.

Yes. That window would be nice.

I already have a skin override folder on my personal todo list, whcih should solve most of your issues. I don't see a need in over-complicating this.

peppy wrote:

I already have a skin override folder on my personal todo list, whcih should solve most of your issues.

nice. Someone mark the thread for that assigned.

peppy wrote:

I don't see a need in over-complicating this.

yeaaahhh

wat. This shouldn't be assigned. This should be assigned.

oops, sorry! I'm half-asleep right now xD

fixed

awww poor you. Go get some rest then. And once skin override folder gets implemented, you can tag this resolved already. (I think)
good night, sweet dreams :3

It depends, if I can't change my skin from multiplayer, this isn't going to be resolved. I don't know how a folder could do this. This thread has two main ideas, picking skins from other windows, and mixing and matching skins. A skin override folder will only solve issue 2 and probably not very well if we don't have issue number 1 addressed, because it's absolutely pointless if we need to go to options every time we want to override a new element.

how often do you change skins, anyway?

Not very often, but the primary reason why I don't like using skins is because I have to go all the way to options to change them, and there are no easy ways to change elements I don't like. Also there's that Hitsound override option that I can't change in multiplayer. Being able to set skin related settings and changing skins outside of options is the whole reason I made this thread.

The fact that it would complement and address with issue number 2 was just extra padding. I want to be able to try out different cursors without switching entire skins or disable a spinner that's annoying to look at. I linked threads where others agree, but if we have to go to options to do it, it just becomes tedious and bothersome.

This thread is about skin integration in osu. What i mean by this is that skins shouldn't feel optional, they should be something that is encouraged, an integral part of osu!. I shouldn't feel as if i have to go out of my way to use a skin. (Leaving the multiplayer room I'm in is going out of my way). I kind of want to look into having a skin to play for certain mods, and be able to switch without lag. I want to use more skins, but it's far too annoying to use custom skins when we can't change them easily.

Imagine dragging a single skin element into the osu screen and it asking if you want to equip it?

I will tell you something as a skinner who made A LOT of skins/ skin parts. Yes I needed to test them instantly after correcting/changing. And no, I don't need even to enter into options to do things like that.

For example : I have osu! in border less resolution, testing out few cursors.
1. Going to main menu.
2. Alt + Tab, open shortcut to skins folder on my desktop. Select cursor from "special folder with parts that I like but want to change them often". Move it to my actually selected skin.
3. Back to game. Press "Shift+Ctrl+Alt+S" to reload your skin. Oh no! it disappeared what now? Just use keyboard! Press quickly 2x "p" and you are inside song menu with your skin ready for testing.
It took me less than 30 seconds to change and reload my new cursor.

You can use reloading even when you are in lobby. Actually, you can use it everywhere while you are not playing any song.
And come on! You can choose your skin BEFORE entering multiplier match. It also doesn't take more than 30 seconds to do...

You idea would need a lot of work if you really want this "lag-less". Also actually most of players just use their "prepared before" skins and they rarely change them. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be used by many. :/

I do not support this. Sorry.

" Actual 30 seconds to change skin is way to annoying". Come on. :<

If it takes more than 15 seconds, it's too long, and a waste of time. I could go to options and change my skin and go back in 30 seconds. I really don't understand your argument really. I prefer to do it this super complicated way that requires a particular folder setup so everyone should do it this way even though the idea would streamline it and cut the complexity and the time, of picking skins in half and promote the creation of more skins to be made.

Sounds quite selfish if you ask me.

why not have a global shortcut/button to quickly access the options???

I hereby come to suggest a new skin feature.

The current system is not at all flexible, it's dull, boring, and not welcoming to the new players. I have had several friends who had no idea on how skins functioned, and it's simple managment.

Besides that, I think everyone experienced that "I just want to change cursors... and now I have to go through all that hassle of copying stuff..", or "I just don't want this certain part to appear", or "I wish I had just the menu part of this skin.. but I have to go through all the files, select the proper ones and then copy them".

You also repeat a lot of .pngs throughout the folders unnecessarily, but that's not the main point.

So here's the prototype of the new screen, I shall explain it's gears and functioning down below.



This is the 'Editor'.
On the actual skin selector screen, there should be a button for editing skin.
I think the interface is 'tablet-friendly' and has similar style when comparing to the options menu, and the map editor.

Let me clarify some things about the picture:
-The tabs would be used for categories, like menu, gameplay, sounds, whatever; maybe add a second tab bar for sub categories within each main category;
-Where it is written hitcircles, would be all the elements that compose the chosen category, for example, if gameplay was chosen there would be hitcircles, hitcircle overlay, hitcircle numbers, health bar etc etc. (the green V is a dropdown menu, wtv you want to call it)
-The elements provided below are linked to the new file system, where basically displays all the available hitcircles on the skin folder.
-The preview area would show the combination of those elements.
-It would be a drag'n'drop system (available components to the preview area). This is really up to the dev, just an opinion.
-All the chosen components would be displayed below;

Notes:
-by default there should be a general transparent .png.
-score numbers should be divided; players should be given the option of hiding the combo or score numbers, etc.

*****file system*****
///paths///
The new file system would be quite simple. The decided category tree would be how the path tree comes out. For example,
gameplay>(hitcircles>overlay,circle,number),score>score_bar, score_numbers..... etc, you see the main point.

Inside for example of the hitcircle/overlay folder would be every overlay available for the user.
(Though I didn't give a thought how the files would be named, opinions welcome).

///skin_files///
the skin files would basically be .txt files with the paths of each component. these would be made at the end of skin editing. You would be able to load, and save skin files.

I don't see any disadvantages comparing to the old system, comparing the current skin loading method.




The text might be a little confusing, and if you think I need to provide any more information or rephrase the whole thing just tell me! Sorry for the mediocre english! :3

Check this out: t/109336

EDIT: Thread merged. That drawing is a pity to dupe xD