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Controllable Song Rate

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +1,552
Bites
185 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Bites
In the mod menu, I think half time and double time should be replaced with player definable rates, increasing the score multiplier by a non-linear value relative to the rate input.



A mock-up picture of how it might work.
There may also be a nightcore checkbox for those who prefer it!


I believe this to be more appropriate for osu! than having solid 1.5 and 0.75 song rates. (double time and half time)

The multiplier formula could be adapted to make the specific values worth what they were originally (1.5x rate = 1.12x score, 0.75x rate = 0.3x score), so that old ranks are not changed.
Last edited by Bites , edited 2 times in total.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
I would want that for all the game modes. But only half time and double time are ranked.
Bites
185 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Bites

theowest wrote:

I would want that for all the game modes. But only half time and double time are ranked.
would it be possible to adjust the score multiplier on each rate to the point where their relatives are equal?

so 1.5 rate would be 1.12 score mult, and 0.75 would be 0.5 score mult? (0.3 on standard)
Trianix
9 posts
Joined September 2011
Trianix

theowest wrote:

I would want that for all the game modes. But only half time and double time are ranked.
I like this idea a lot.
Bites
185 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Bites

Somfingwong wrote:

theowest wrote:

I would want that for all the game modes. But only half time and double time are ranked.
I like this idea a lot.
Guess I'll modify the request to be more general for osu!
G0r
389 posts
Joined September 2011
G0r
I always believed that this would be a good feature.
FissionMailed
12 posts
Joined August 2012
FissionMailed
I would use all of my votes if I could on this feature. I don't have any more unfortunately. I would really like to see this though. It gives more options for speed players to score on songs that they find boring on regular rates if they find double time too fast or too slow.
PhiLL A
PhiLL A

theowest wrote:

I would want that for all the game modes. But only half time and double time are ranked.
all of my yes. it's already a good request, that would just make it better. except i think half time shouldn't be ranked.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest

MxG PhiLL wrote:

theowest wrote:

I would want that for all the game modes. But only half time and double time are ranked.
all of my yes. it's already a good request, that would just make it better. except i think half time shouldn't be ranked.
I think so too. Nobody likes to see it on the top rankings: t/88988
cirno-_old
cirno-_old
I've been thinking of creating a feature request just for this. Glad to see others feel the same. This would help with practicing maps that are a tad bit too slow when playing normally, but way too fast on DT.
bwross
265 posts
Joined December 2009
bwross
I see two major problems:

1) Making more plays unranked just isn't going to fly. Peppy would have liked even autopilot and relax to be ranked, but that proved too insane to keep.
2) Too prone to min-maxing. Especially when the score multiplier is tweakable.

Which means that the most acceptable form I can see would be one where the speed cannot go lower than the current HT, and the score modifier isn't graduated... slower than normal gets the HT modifier, faster than DT gets the DT modifier, and in between gets the standard 1.0x. But I still think min-maxing will be problematic... there are a good number of songs I'd like just a bit faster to get them out of an awkward BPM and into a more comfortable one. Which means that maybe the interval from 1.0x speed to 1.5x speed should have a multiplier less than 1.0x, because it can be used to make things easier.
cirno-_old
cirno-_old

bwross wrote:

I see two major problems:

1) Making more plays unranked just isn't going to fly. Peppy would have liked even autopilot and relax to be ranked, but that proved too insane to keep.
2) Too prone to min-maxing. Especially when the score multiplier is tweakable.

Which means that the most acceptable form I can see would be one where the speed cannot go lower than the current HT, and the score modifier isn't graduated... slower than normal gets the HT modifier, faster than DT gets the DT modifier, and in between gets the standard 1.0x. But I still think min-maxing will be problematic... there are a good number of songs I'd like just a bit faster to get them out of an awkward BPM and into a more comfortable one. Which means that maybe the interval from 1.0x speed to 1.5x speed should have a multiplier less than 1.0x, because it can be used to make things easier.
I agree. Something like what Osu!Mania has would be nice. Maybe 0.9x (or even less) for non-standard over 1.0x speed and .3x for anything under 1.0x like you said. Then DT and higher would be at 1.12x points.

I'd still like it as an option, even if it is unranked.
Bites
185 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Bites
..To prevent minmaxing, perhaps only allow single decimals? 1.1x, 1.2x, 1.3x, etc! Only allow .1 increments in the song rate.

That would stop it completely, or at least for the most part, I think.
benguin
277 posts
Joined January 2012
benguin
I like this idea, but an issue I see arising is that concerning AR, since DT and HT have both song rate and approach rate changes. If this feature gets implemented, either one of two things need to happen:

1) We wait for user-definable AR to be implemented (which I support, but this topic is so controversial that if/when it ever happens is up in the air.) Once user-definable AR is implemented, we can do away with the AR changes in the DT and HT mods and then from there we can work on doing it on a sliding scale without having to worry about AR.

2) The second option is to implement this option keeping in mind that there is going to be some AR change formula that changes on a sliding scale along with the sliding scale of the song rate change in such a way that the formula respects the old HT/DT AR changes.

As for the issue of min/maxing, I think this feature could start off small, only allow values that are between HT and DT (I think it's 0.75x and 1.5x iirc?) (inclusively of course). If that works well, then we can start to think about how to implement it beyond those boundries.
Rianne_old
Rianne_old
Sounds really nice, support.
Bites
185 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Bites

Rianne wrote:

Sounds really nice, support.
Thanks <33333
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
I've seen so many toggle esc requests here lately not saying this is a bad idea but it really but I think it would be best if it ever was implemented to be unranked if not following the standard speeds. IMO it is one of them for fun adjustments if anything.
Bites
185 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Bites

ztrot wrote:

I've seen so many toggle esc requests here lately not saying this is a bad idea but it really but I think it would be best if it ever was implemented to be unranked if not following the standard speeds. IMO it is one of them for fun adjustments if anything.
If it's agreed upon that this should be unranked, then we all know it will never be added - as we ALSO know, peppy does NOT like unranked play :o
yoyomster
58 posts
Joined July 2011
yoyomster
I support this! (would star if i had one...) It would prevent players from reaching a "skill plateau" because it makes the learning curve smoother.
I would only use this for practicing however, so for me it doesn't need a score multiplier.
It seems difficult to balance such a multiplier correctly anyway.
Last edited by yoyomster , edited 1 time in total.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Overly complicated to implement and it could never be balanced even if it adjusted the multiplier accordingly. Different speed rates do not proportionately change the difficulty. A slow song can become easier than the double time version if slightly increased in speed. Same thing for faster songs with half time variations.

No support.
Kusanagi
1 post
Joined October 2011
Kusanagi
I had almost the same idea and so I'm happy I found this post.
With a mod like this you can play your favourite beatmaps until you reach your very limit and even easier difficulties may become interesting again.
Sure, the song might sound a bit strange if it is played too fast but I guess that wouldn't matter that much in the end.
My idea would be more like a slider where you can adjust the speed.



No clue about the exact speed increase/decrease amount but something like x1,5(double-time mod) x1,6 x1,8 would be my suggestion.
Bites
185 posts
Joined June 2012
Topic Starter
Bites

Kusanagi wrote:

I had almost the same idea and so I'm happy I found this post.
With a mod like this you can play your favourite beatmaps until you reach your very limit and even easier difficulties may become interesting again.
Sure, the song might sound a bit strange if it is played too fast but I guess that wouldn't matter that much in the end.
My idea would be more like a slider where you can adjust the speed.



No clue about the exact speed increase/decrease amount but something like x1,5(double-time mod) x1,6 x1,8 would be my suggestion.
Can't believe that I never saw this. This looks like it would work a lot better than a text based box. It could even be set to snap to .1 intervals!
South
201 posts
Joined July 2012
South
id support but no votes left :(

ill bump though
TheTrueNorth
19 posts
Joined November 2012
TheTrueNorth
support +1 :)

I just think some pros may dislike this as you can slow down extremely difficult maps and practice a lot easier than they could have.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
Setsunax
45 posts
Joined March 2013
Setsunax
I didn't know this had been requested before so i made a post about it:) Go check it out if you want to: p/2356885#p2356885. Before asking, no, i'm not trying to get the attention to me instead of this topic. I'm simply saying i agree and if you want to check out my post, please do. But supporting this topic would be a lot better than mine because it already has many stars:)
posting.php?mode=reply&f=4&t=103530#
Compa
97 posts
Joined February 2013
Compa
0.1 on Big Black? Cool :')
Support
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
4,298 posts
Joined July 2011
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
and we need a multiplier on user page

1000pc scenario!
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
Joined July 2010
Oinari-sama

[CSGA]Ar3sgice wrote:

and we need a multiplier on user page

1000pc scenario!
oi no spoilers
MwarriorHiei
14 posts
Joined June 2008
MwarriorHiei
this would be an amazing mod for practicing songs. you can play a song at half time and gradually increase the speed until you can play it at full speed or faster.
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Wait, so you can play easies with 4.0x, so all 1/1 notes feel like 1/4. wouldn't that be weird?
I'd say put it between 0.50 and 2.00
All with decimals, 0.5, 0.6 etc til 1.9 and 2.0
I'll dupport when this gets in :D
raww_old
raww_old

theowest wrote:

I would want that for all the game modes. But only half time and double time are ranked.
+stars
Last edited by raww_old , edited 1 time in total.
iWhorse
299 posts
Joined December 2012
iWhorse
Support. Knew this was suggested somewhere, and if i couldn't find it was going to resuggest.

Going to add that this should be completely unrankable though.

Also going to add that multipliers should go from maybe 0.25x speed to 3x speed (Might seem a bit excessive but would cover pretty much every map and every speed you could ever want as any player).

How AR would scale would certainly have to be worked out though. Same with OD, since DT changes both of these. Most likely would have to experiment around before implementing. This would also be an interesting idea because more ARs could be implemented.

Just my two cents.
Kaeru
302 posts
Joined February 2013
Kaeru
I really like this idea. I think this should be rankable but it would have to have some heavy restrictions. Anything below normal speed would automatically force the HT score multiplier and the speed cannot ever be set lower than the current HT speed. Anything between normal speed and DT speed would have no effect on score. Finally, 1.5x speed (DT) and higher (I think 2x is a good maximum speed) will yield the same score benefits of DT. This would at least allow us to practice maps and still set scores on maps while this mod is active, but wouldn't in any way affect the current rankings.
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
I'd say then.
Faster - 0.8x-0.9x
Slower - 0.3x
raww_old
raww_old
more votes adsdfa
_Steve
63 posts
Joined July 2013
_Steve
Supporting, great Idea!
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

benguin wrote:

1) We wait for user-definable AR to be implemented (which I support, but this topic is so controversial that if/when it ever happens is up in the air.) Once user-definable AR is implemented, we can do away with the AR changes in the DT and HT mods and then from there we can work on doing it on a sliding scale without having to worry about AR.

2) The second option is to implement this option keeping in mind that there is going to be some AR change formula that changes on a sliding scale along with the sliding scale of the song rate change in such a way that the formula respects the old HT/DT AR changes.
I don't see why either of these is worth mentioning. The real issue stems from the fact that the current score multipliers or DT and HT are completely arbitrary, so there isn't much point to graduating them. If pp were made to be the primary scoring system I don't think there'd be any problem at all with this.
raww_old
raww_old
Another great benefit from this feature RANKED is that instead of just having a small range of maps that give insane amount of pp, speeding up other maps will allow players to have a much wider variety of maps that they can gain PP from. This feature makes a lot of sense with the new PP system, since it's based on raw values (jumps and streams etc.)

If made UNRANKED only, people would still have a much wider variety of maps that they can practice on a specific BPM on, instead of having to search and search to find a map that has a good amount of streams for the bpm, etc.

It would certainly make osu! a much more versatile game, and it works for mania also who wouldn't love to see rrtyui, sayonara-bye or Wubwoofwolf beat an Extra with x1.7 speed!.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa

ztrot wrote:

I've seen so many toggle esc requests here lately not saying this is a bad idea but it really but I think it would be best if it ever was implemented to be unranked if not following the standard speeds. IMO it is one of them for fun adjustments if anything.
This could cause users to practice a map by adjusting it by .01x or something, if that would be possible. It would make the map unranked while not changing it all too much. Don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

Don't know if I support this idea, it reminds me of a hack I read about once. On top of that, if the margins are going to be within halftime and doubletime limits, they sound pretty useless to me. I'd support this if it would go from 0.5x to 2x, but, once again. Just thinking about having something similar to an existing hack as a part of osu's system makes me dislike this, even though the idea isn't a terrible one in and of itself. I just don't think it would do much good if it was unranked.

Maybe add a "HyperMode" or "UltraTime" mod that goes 2.0x instead of 1.5x? For the true Asian players. Although it would become the holy grail of pp if it were ranked. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing either. It sure as hell would bring about complaints.

I don't think peppy would ever implement this, but if he does, I only support something like a "HyperMode" mod that would speed the song up to 2x speed.
Franc[e]sco
189 posts
Joined August 2009
Franc[e]sco

Tess wrote:

ztrot wrote:

I've seen so many toggle esc requests here lately not saying this is a bad idea but it really but I think it would be best if it ever was implemented to be unranked if not following the standard speeds. IMO it is one of them for fun adjustments if anything.
This could cause users to practice a map by adjusting it by .01x or something, if that would be possible. It would make the map unranked while not changing it all too much. Don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

Don't know if I support this idea, it reminds me of a hack I read about once. On top of that, if the margins are going to be within halftime and doubletime limits, they sound pretty useless to me. I'd support this if it would go from 0.5x to 2x, but, once again. Just thinking about having something similar to an existing hack as a part of osu's system makes me dislike this, even though the idea isn't a terrible one in and of itself. I just don't think it would do much good if it was unranked.

Maybe add a "HyperMode" or "UltraTime" mod that goes 2.0x instead of 1.5x? For the true Asian players. Although it would become the holy grail of pp if it were ranked. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing either. It sure as hell would bring about complaints.

I don't think peppy would ever implement this, but if he does, I only support something like a "HyperMode" mod that would speed the song up to 2x speed.
It would be a hack if the score didn't increase / reduce according to the speed you set, but in this case it's perfectly fair as it would multiply score according to how fast you played the song.
Ranking it would allow players to slowly build up speed on maps they can't DT and makes practicing DT stuff easier, which is great. It's not cheating - reaching DT speed for a map will still require you to reach the same skill level, but you will be able to easily speed up the map gradually without having to use tools such as a bpm changer, and AR would also scale gradually with the speed.
Arcane
154 posts
Joined February 2014
Arcane

MwarriorHiei wrote:

this would be an amazing mod for practicing songs. you can play a song at half time and gradually increase the speed until you can play it at full speed or faster.
Well said~ never saw it that way but nice ^^
ayygurl
446 posts
Joined September 2014
ayygurl
It would be cool if we could change the speed but with selecting bpm nah?
Aaron Hagger
Aaron Hagger
I think the original idea works best, picking a set (equal) value between idk 0.25-4.00x speed. Have 8 stars, I've wanted to ask this for MONTHS!
- Sugoi Sugoi -
77 posts
Joined June 2015
- Sugoi Sugoi -
Amazing idea.. It's good for practising a song in example 0.25 then 0.30 and so on till you can do it in 1.0x
Take my 4 stars <3
Aaron Hagger
Aaron Hagger
I like it because I always like playing songs quicker (especially if they have streaming!) but 1.5x is always too fast for me. A definable rate between 1-1.5x to gradually get better at higher bpm works perfect for me.
E m i
E m i
plz make it happen
ayygurl
446 posts
Joined September 2014
ayygurl
PEPPY PLZZ
Valandril
11 posts
Joined February 2014
Valandril
YES PLEASE!!!
i want to be able to steadily increase the speed of a song. (like hexis)
i dont care if its unranked.
taru
21 posts
Joined April 2014
taru
I absolutely support this feature request. As someone with prior experience with Stepmania, having more precise options for song speed rate really enhances the play experience. It creates a great environment for individual song practicing and tracking your improvement. It would also be very awesome to see which top players can pass the hardest songs with the highest speeds. It's not unrealistic to implement this either. Please consider it.
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