Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. Beatmaps
  3. Mapping Discussion
  4. Ranking Criteria
  5. Finalized/Denied Amendments

[invalid] [Proposal] Allow suggestive difficulty names if song suggests it and uses “explicit” tag

posted
Total Posts
26
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,258 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak
Hello!

Looking through this discussion, gave me thoughts on how the “explicit” tag could work that would probably benefit lots of songs.

Currently, we have to follow osu! chat rules when we’re giving titles for the difficulties, which sometimes might not work as intended simply because of the song. The general idea of having a custom difficulty name relies on song general theme, however we have songs that might tell about topics that would require us to use the “explicit” tag. Considering this, I believe that we should have an option to use the titles which would cover these topics and have a better idea representation behind the song itself.

Moreover, looking through the ranking criteria I could not find an actual point that would take this problem into consideration, thus the following is my proposal:

Difficulty name should abide by Community Rules to keep them appropriate for all age groups.
  1. Difficulty name can contain suggestive topics, in case the song itself supports it and uses an "explicit" tag to hide it, however any kind of names that would fall into this exception should pass through a Content voting process first.

While I might see the point to deny such change because sending an “/np” in the chat would reveal the concerned difficulty name, I still believe it shouldn’t be an issue considering the song title or artist might already contain suggestive words. In order to avoid this, I suggest another change which might eventually be transferred into a Github issue, so it can be viewed by developers.

This is what we have right now as a result of every /np command:

* M a r v o l l o is playing Some Weird Artist - Some Very Suggestive Title [Weird Diffname]

My suggestion is to hide the name of map in case it has an explicit tag turned on, for those who have explicit content disabled in the settings:

* M a r v o l l o is playing [The beatmap contains explicit content]

I hope for a civil discussion of this point and looking for more suggestions.
dopaminos
326 posts
Joined June 2015
dopaminos
+1
Froskya
1,253 posts
Joined April 2014
Froskya
+1

totally agree
Daycore
Beatmap Nominator
945 posts
Joined January 2015
Daycore
the game needs this feature in case staff wants explicit tag to work as intended
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,258 posts
Joined January 2015
Topic Starter
Shmiklak
Just to make it clear, I do not suggest any changes into how visual content should be moderated under "explicit" tag, considering hosting of NSFW content might lead into legal issues and is generally unwelcomed.
Kudou Chitose
Global Moderator
140 posts
Joined March 2017
Kudou Chitose
+1

currently diff names are regulated by vcc which doesn't make much sense, this needs clarification even if u don't wanna hide diff names under the explicit mark umbrella

also unlike bgs diffnames can't be removed/changed post factum, cuz it breaks shit, in this sense they're much closer to the song metadata
AnimeStyle
653 posts
Joined December 2012
AnimeStyle
+1
dead soul
73 posts
Joined March 2018
dead soul
+1
Eterdesp
306 posts
Joined December 2017
Eterdesp
+1
[[[[[[
886 posts
Joined August 2019
[[[[[[
+1
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,946 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral

Kudou Chitose wrote:

+1

currently diff names are regulated by vcc which doesn't make much sense, this needs clarification even if u don't wanna hide diff names under the explicit mark umbrella
This is incorrect. Difficulty names have never been regulated by the VCC, which serves to regulate solely visual content like map backgrounds, videos, etc. The wording in the explicit content wiki page was updated today to make this a little clearer, but I don't think it ever suggested this even slightly in the past.

The ranking criteria has very little to do with the community rules, and the explicit content provision is provided as a sole, one-off way to allow an avenue to people to map songs that might otherwise brush against what is considered acceptable by our general content rules. The concerns about 'better representing the song' in regards to not being able to directly name your difficulties after sex positions (as described in the beatmap referenced in the OP) are not really material or worth considering, in my view.
Ryu Sei
2,900 posts
Joined October 2013
Ryu Sei
Considering the guidelines already broken with some maps (like beatmapsets/1756972 ), I don't see why this should be rejected.

How do we define the line between suggestive and outright not acceptable difficulty names, though? We should discuss that first.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,946 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral

Ryu Sei wrote:

Considering the guidelines already broken with some maps (like beatmapsets/1756972 ), I don't see why this should be rejected.
Instances of a policy being ignored/overlooked/forgotten are not valid cause to trash the entire thing.

Ryu Sei wrote:

How do we define the line between suggestive and outright not acceptable difficulty names, though? We should discuss that first.
There's no need to. In the (extremely unlikely) event anything like this was passed, it would enter content review workflows established for map backgrounds/visual assets and be judged on a case-by-case basis like they are.

For the record, this isn't a ranking criteria issue - it would prompt a change to either content rules or community rules, both of which are well beyond the scope of an RC proposal thread.
UberFazz
Medal Hunter
163 posts
Joined July 2016
UberFazz
we need to wait for better censorship options before we can go further with allowing more explicit content. it's very easy to just /np or put something in a multi lobby and expose inappropriate material to people it shouldn't be exposed to

like what eph said, explicit tag exists as a compromise specifically for song content as we can change everything except for song content with very little effort (like bgs or diff names)
Laquarius
228 posts
Joined August 2020
Laquarius
just want to say if this went thru people will definitely use absurd diff names like something u will find on porn sites
vodit51321
105 posts
Joined December 2020
vodit51321
I kinda agree with Ephemeral. Maybe this could be done, but why? Lmao. osu will be fine without letting mappers submit unhinged diff names
Ryu Sei
2,900 posts
Joined October 2013
Ryu Sei
Revisiting this thread after a second thought, I don't think we should allow explicit difficulty names even if the song itself is explicit at first place. Not without better technology backing up the censorship/filtering in the game.

It's true that difficulty names can be changed with less to no effort, so why forcing yourself putting explicit difficulty names? I would add rules to restrict explicit difficulty name use, though I'm not sure if there should be additional rules defining what is explicit and what not.

There are difficulty names that are explicit if you know the context though (e.g "HOLY SHIT IS THAT A 177013 REFERENCE???"), so how does we know if diff names are outright explicit or not? It would be great if the current rules/community guidelines explains it.
niat0004
226 posts
Joined September 2017
niat0004

Ryu Sei wrote:

There are difficulty names that are explicit if you know the context though (e.g "HOLY SHIT IS THAT A 177013 REFERENCE???"), so how does we know if diff names are outright explicit or not? It would be great if the current rules/community guidelines explains it.
Something like "The difficulty name must be appropriate for all ages when seen through a vacuum", in the same way character age is judged "in a vacuum" in the VCC - outside knowledge of e.g. meme culture should not affect it.
Last edited by niat0004 , edited 2 times in total.
Blushing
Technical Support Team
3,034 posts
Joined February 2015
Blushing
I don’t think a game tailored for kids and all ages should allow this. There is no reason why explicit diff names should be allowed for an 8 year to have to ask what it means.

-1
aceticke
Global Moderator
251 posts
Joined August 2016
aceticke
-1 for same reasons as Blushing
niat0004
226 posts
Joined September 2017
niat0004

Blushing wrote:

I don’t think a game tailored for kids and all ages should allow this. There is no reason why explicit diff names should be allowed for an 8 year to have to ask what it means.

-1
To make myself clear, I do not agree with this RC proposal. I merely believe context should not be considered (or at least only considered to a heavily limited extent) when determining appropriateness - if we considered context for other potentially explicit things, 90% of dating sim songs on osu! would have to be taken down.

I agree with Ephemeral and UberFazz - Explicit is a one-off rule that is just for otherwise unallowable songs.
I agree with Laquarius and vodit51321 - "Unhinged" difficulty names are not necessary.
I agree with Blushing and aceticke - A 12+ game does not need anything worse than that.
Blushing
Technical Support Team
3,034 posts
Joined February 2015
Blushing
I feel, and I am probably a far extremist on this point, that context matters. Context matters for a lot of inappropriate words and phrases. There are a plethora of English words that can be transcribed and meaning changed based on the context they are in.

It's the same for chat and forums, the context for which the text is presented and typed out matters a lot. I do not want to restrict mappers freedom in creating difficulty names but I think any mapper that has good intent(s) on getting a map ranked can get a feel of the map and the map they created without using inappropriate phrases and or words.

Would love a osu!team/GMT/NAT position on the statements presented since this was reopened as there have been new stances and this is a good conversation to have.
Jonarwhal
1,227 posts
Joined November 2013
Jonarwhal
-1 same reasons as ace and blush
Noch Einen
530 posts
Joined July 2018
Noch Einen
-1, you're just being horn... when you cant handle the main rules "game for all age"

Making map for ranked / loved would mean "the quality of that map is passable & not explicitly contains any negativity", due that involves other party (BN & higher) to check whether its actually passable / not
Protastic101
1,170 posts
Joined July 2015
Protastic101
Dunno why this is being revived (or why I never commented on this when I was still GMT), but -1 as many others are expressing. The team's stance as of when I left at the start of June was that user generated content (BGs, diff names, tags, descriptions, i.e. anything you as the mapper can control and make) must abide by site wide rules, meaning the allowances given by explicit tag do not apply. Explicit tag was created for song metadata and lyrical content that goes against the usual rules to allow mappers the freedom to map those songs as they pleased since you can't just change song metadata or lyrics, but you can change a diff name or description to be appropriate.
Hivie
osu!taiko Paragon
1,002 posts
Joined March 2019
Hivie
archiving this as it's outside of the RC's scope, see what Ephemeral said eariler:

Ephemeral wrote:

The ranking criteria has very little to do with the community rules, and the explicit content provision is provided as a sole, one-off way to allow an avenue to people to map songs that might otherwise brush against what is considered acceptable by our general content rules. The concerns about 'better representing the song' in regards to not being able to directly name your difficulties after sex positions (as described in the beatmap referenced in the OP) are not really material or worth considering, in my view.
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 26