I smell some emotional warfare...
(Highly) Emotional reactions are a aux/mafia tell.
True or not. I'm using this rule.
(Highly) Emotional reactions are a aux/mafia tell.
True or not. I'm using this rule.
forum
Experimental Mafia (Game Over - Town Win Host Lose)
posted
Total Posts
410
vote: ph0xPh0X wrote:
Also, I will find it highly amusing if you manage a bandwagon against me.
or just not dealing it seriously with it. Accusing for meta relationship is weak and proven to be dangerous on the previous HNM game. So ya, I'm not weighing at all tbhRolled wrote:
Uneasy in a threatening way or..?
and you can't vote Ph0X twice even your name is "Two" >_>
He was hoping no one (not even LS) would notice.bmin11 wrote:
and you can't vote Ph0X twice even your name is "Two" >_>
ph0x, I'd rather not have you lynched d1 because you are one of the stronger minds, and with the most experience, in this game. That's the logistic side of me. If I went with my gut, I would vote for you.
But truth is, you getting lynched d1 as pro-town is a huge win for mafia. It's not worthwhile to take that chance on a gut feeling.
But at the same time, I wish you'd be giving me more reason to think you're pro-town. You've yet to say anything in this thread constructive towards the game. All you've been doing is trying to evade pressure by shrugging everything off as sarcasm.
I'm on to you though, bro.
Let's point some FoS's. This is somewhat in order of extremity:
Rust: hypocrite
ph0x: read above
animask: You gave no reason for voting for me other than that you thought my logic was wrong. You didn't mention anything I did specifically that you thought was scummy.
DxS: Making personal votes doesn't benefit town. Chris is in the game whether you like it or not, so place your vote somewhere else unless there's a reason you're voting Chris that we don't know. It's a good cop-out if you're mafia, though.
Two: I feel that Two is trusting me more in this game than in the past (lolmeta). An optimal day 1 for him is ph0x getting lynched, and me getting NKed. This is without a doubt.
oh and Q is always mafia.
But truth is, you getting lynched d1 as pro-town is a huge win for mafia. It's not worthwhile to take that chance on a gut feeling.
But at the same time, I wish you'd be giving me more reason to think you're pro-town. You've yet to say anything in this thread constructive towards the game. All you've been doing is trying to evade pressure by shrugging everything off as sarcasm.
I'm on to you though, bro.
Let's point some FoS's. This is somewhat in order of extremity:
Rust: hypocrite
ph0x: read above
animask: You gave no reason for voting for me other than that you thought my logic was wrong. You didn't mention anything I did specifically that you thought was scummy.
DxS: Making personal votes doesn't benefit town. Chris is in the game whether you like it or not, so place your vote somewhere else unless there's a reason you're voting Chris that we don't know. It's a good cop-out if you're mafia, though.
Two: I feel that Two is trusting me more in this game than in the past (lolmeta). An optimal day 1 for him is ph0x getting lynched, and me getting NKed. This is without a doubt.
oh and Q is always mafia.
I don't know what post of mine gave you the impression that I don't think you're mafia. Maybe the lack of a post?Rolled wrote:
Two: I feel that Two is trusting me more in this game than in the past (lolmeta).
Why ignore the last part. Is it because it is true? 
ignoring all other factors, my ideal lynch as town is chris cause he isn't that active
if I consider the content of posts, then right now I think ph0x is the most likely to be mafia
if I were mafia, I would night kill rust45
if I consider the content of posts, then right now I think ph0x is the most likely to be mafia
if I were mafia, I would night kill rust45
edit:
p.s.- animask was lurking, but he didn't post
Stuff like that is shady to me, especially when you're being called out.
Stuff like that is shady to me, especially when you're being called out.
No accusations in the following. Just ideas.
Rolled, you seem to be pressuring players a bit by lightly accusing them of being mafia. Seems like a Cop sort of thing. Aux/Mafia
Ph0X, just survive until Day 2 please. I'll decide what to do with you then.
rust45, information without much accusation. Seems kind of townie.
Two, a bit annoying, but why vote for Ph0X? If Ph0X survives another day we might have a lead.
If hes mafia, then we just need to read his posts carefully. No matter what, we should read his posts carefully.
bmin11, if you're going to complain about metagaming, don't do it yourself.
Chris, newbie or lurker. Which one could it be?
0_o, try to remember that this is HNM. The others are osu!mafia or w/e. It would be funny if you said something in
the wrong thread. I don't really need/want that.
Quy, haven't said much yet. I hope you're not mafia like last time.
DxS, I hope you don't do that time thing again. You should know how I play by now, right?
@Rolled Don't call me a lurker I'm supposed to be reckless player.
Rolled, you seem to be pressuring players a bit by lightly accusing them of being mafia. Seems like a Cop sort of thing. Aux/Mafia
Ph0X, just survive until Day 2 please. I'll decide what to do with you then.
rust45, information without much accusation. Seems kind of townie.
Two, a bit annoying, but why vote for Ph0X? If Ph0X survives another day we might have a lead.
If hes mafia, then we just need to read his posts carefully. No matter what, we should read his posts carefully.
bmin11, if you're going to complain about metagaming, don't do it yourself.
Chris, newbie or lurker. Which one could it be?
0_o, try to remember that this is HNM. The others are osu!mafia or w/e. It would be funny if you said something in
the wrong thread. I don't really need/want that.
Quy, haven't said much yet. I hope you're not mafia like last time.
DxS, I hope you don't do that time thing again. You should know how I play by now, right?
@Rolled Don't call me a lurker
I'm supposed to be reckless player.lolwut? The only thing you mentioned was my first post calling it hasty judgment as I accused you of. As I mentioned RVS votes aren't meant to be taken seriously and reasoning for RVS votes should be treated the same.Rolled wrote:
Rust: hypocrite
random votes do mean something
you might think your vote is random, but even "random" is telling
you might think your vote is random, but even "random" is telling
DeathxShinigami - I'm definitely not new to this community, and have actually played WWG's with you before. Why are you bringing it up in this game?
I'm keeping my vote with DeathxShinigami for now as it seemed like a bad attempt to bandwagon me out of the game for not being "apart of the community", because I don't play osu! anymore.
I'm keeping my vote with DeathxShinigami for now as it seemed like a bad attempt to bandwagon me out of the game for not being "apart of the community", because I don't play osu! anymore.
Alright, at this point in time we are going nowhere and town has a 0% chance of getting a mafia lynch d1.
Instead of gathering your own biased opinions (myself included) that nobody is likely to agree on, I think the best play right now is to find the person you feel most likely to be pro-town and hop on the wagon. That said, the people currently voting are:
Chris (DxS)
DxS (Chris)
Two (Ph0x)
Rolled (rust)
animask (Rolled)
There's a 5 way tie for 1 vote, 4 are not voting.
I have reason to suspect everybody on that list except for Chris. If any of those 5 people turn out to be mafia, there's a very small chance that they're voting for fellow mafia, so I'm not going to wagon and get a townie lynched.
That said, unvote
Vote: DxS
Experimental logic. I think it's sound, though.
I'd also like to make note that DxS has posted in the other mafia game, and did not respond to Chris asking a legitimate question here.
Instead of gathering your own biased opinions (myself included) that nobody is likely to agree on, I think the best play right now is to find the person you feel most likely to be pro-town and hop on the wagon. That said, the people currently voting are:
Chris (DxS)
DxS (Chris)
Two (Ph0x)
Rolled (rust)
animask (Rolled)
There's a 5 way tie for 1 vote, 4 are not voting.
I have reason to suspect everybody on that list except for Chris. If any of those 5 people turn out to be mafia, there's a very small chance that they're voting for fellow mafia, so I'm not going to wagon and get a townie lynched.
That said, unvote
Vote: DxS
Experimental logic. I think it's sound, though.
I'd also like to make note that DxS has posted in the other mafia game, and did not respond to Chris asking a legitimate question here.
Huh, right Chris' statement.
Well you backed yourself well then. Just found it suspicious that it's been a year since that WWG game and you show up again into the world of osu! mafia so who knows...
Might as well
unvote
then
Well you backed yourself well then. Just found it suspicious that it's been a year since that WWG game and you show up again into the world of osu! mafia so who knows...
Might as well
unvote
then
Not always~Rolled wrote:
oh and Q is always mafia.
I may lurk most of the time or sometimes, but my activeness is really just random.
And there's this Timezone issue too.
Anyway, not sure who to vote yet.
It's one thing to be like "I was rolefishing", but to do a 180 with halfassed logic isn't cutting it for me. Especially right after you were voted for.
unvote, vote: deathxshinigami
unvote, vote: deathxshinigami
Up to you guys but...just a heads up
I'm not mafia~
I'm not mafia~
I don't honestly think DxS is mafia too actually.
gosh I don't either
who cares about why I don't think so? my post was substantive and surely makes up for my previous inactivity
who cares about why I don't think so? my post was substantive and surely makes up for my previous inactivity
Have a feeling it'll just be Rolled/Two/Chris vs. everyone else
Whee, can't be that hard to lynch people now isn't it?
Whee, can't be that hard to lynch people now isn't it?
I've explained every move I've made in this game. If you think that I'm mindless sheeping you should reread the thread.
Why not Rolled or Ph0X? Just wondering why since rust45 isn't holding much attention by the othersTwo wrote:
if I were mafia, I would night kill rust45
Where did I complain? animask, please don't refer my actions on the other game (plus, how the other game meta game'd was really getting no where but just biting eachother for personal feeling. Unnecessary)animask wrote:
bmin11, if you're going to complain about metagaming, don't do it yourself.
DxS wasn't holding a strong suspicion (heck, it looks more like a RVS), so I would understand if he turns hs suspicion around.
I still haven't made my thought yet and I will have to go through the thread someday >_>;;
Unvote since it's useless
P.S. What's a carpetbagger?
It's a political term, such as when someone tries to run for public office but lacks the community ties which often times is criticized for not having. So I used the term to refer to Chris who doesn't know this community very well.bmin11 wrote:
P.S. What's a carpetbagger?
Anyways carry on~
you wishDeathxShinigami wrote:
Have a feeling it'll just be Rolled/Two/Chris vs. everyone else
do you really think people are dumb enough to not notice you trying to paint us as a team? you've done it twice now, with what reason I wonder?
I'm pretty sure I'm the only member of town and everybody else is mafia.
Is that why this is experimental LS? Do I win for figuring it out?
Seriously town, stop looking so suspicious.
edit: To elaborate, stop defending people you have no reason to defend. People should be fully capable of defending themselves. The fact that everybody is defending people other than themselves is not a pro-town trait.
Is that why this is experimental LS? Do I win for figuring it out?
Seriously town, stop looking so suspicious.
edit: To elaborate, stop defending people you have no reason to defend. People should be fully capable of defending themselves. The fact that everybody is defending people other than themselves is not a pro-town trait.
There are some people who just "give up" or whatever when he/she got a lot of votes.
WIFOM, I think?
And most of the time, they really are town and ends up being lynched anyway.
I'm not really sure, but meh.
WIFOM, I think?
And most of the time, they really are town and ends up being lynched anyway.
I'm not really sure, but meh.
Also, about the Experimental thing, I don't think it's something as silly as that. Maybe it has something to do with the power roles.
oh okay that clears a lot up then
ph0x you better be fucking posting
Some people like to play differently. I'm a townie so everybody else isn't mafia. You should get to learn how people play beforeRolled wrote:
I'm pretty sure I'm the only member of town and everybody else is mafia.
Is that why this is experimental LS? Do I win for figuring it out?
Seriously town, stop looking so suspicious.
edit: To elaborate, stop defending people you have no reason to defend. People should be fully capable of defending themselves. The fact that everybody is defending people other than themselves is not a pro-town trait.
you assume they are mafia or not. I have a good idea on what your play style is like, so now I know what to do to help you.
(I'm a newbie lulz) The reason I think you're sus(s) is because you are accusing almost everyone of being mafia.
That is actually a scum tell. You seem pressured for some reason and that is why I voted for you. Chillax and don't assume like crazy. But I agree with your last statement. Townies don't really need to defend others.
I'm also trying to say that some scum tells are not logical, but more towards gut feeling.
@DxS
I think you're on the right track by seeing how all those players are related (except for Chris who I have no idea about).
They seem to be the most offensive/annoying and use insufficient logic to back their thoughts. (Rolled might be an exception.)
@bmin11
Sorry, since you're in more than 1 mafia game I guess I got mixed up.
Semi-dangerous to say (yay~), but I'm going to save and organize all the posts for
both mafia games so I don't forget. Just knowing who is in each game isn't good enough.
Sorry, since you're in more than 1 mafia game I guess I got mixed up.
Semi-dangerous to say (yay~), but I'm going to save and organize all the posts for
both mafia games so I don't forget. Just knowing who is in each game isn't good enough.
animask wrote:
They seem to be the most offensive/annoying and use insufficient logic to back their thoughts.
You seem pressured for some reason and that is why I voted for you.
Oh, I know I'll be unvoting you~
well, it's good to know that animask and ph0x are mafia day 1
Okay; now that I have a bit of time, let's get things rolling. (Pun totally intended.)
I don't like players dragging the game down. I don't like players who just dick around, cause chaos, or play dumb when confronted. It really poisons game morale, and osu! mafia games don't exactly have the reputation of being highly motivated after the first day (for a number of reasons).
In a similar fashion, I don't like players throwing their hands up saying "I didn't get the role I wanted" or "I don't care about this game" and interrupting scumhunting, providing misleads, etc. That behaviour detriments the town's ability to effectively play the game, giving the mafia a leg up.
The comment, although emotional and directed, did relate to gameplay as you saw. It was more of a comment that I hope Chris doesn't play poorly in this game.
Rolled commented on rust's "hypocrisy". I completely disagree that it was hypocritical of rust to make that statement against Rolled. Rolled implied that he was "done" scumhunting (as in, he had completed his hunt and found his prey) so early and quickly into the game (based on just one comment by me). rust saw this as "hasty judgement" on Rolled's part. Contrast this to a RVS vote against Chris, with the comment "I don't know you, you seem pretty shady to me." Clearly, rust isn't making judgements against Chris (as it's obviously not an "I built a case against you; defend yourself" offense). Knowing Rolled, the "what?" could have been just pointing out something silly he noticed, but then again, based on his previous gameplay, I can guess the detail also may factor into Rolled's scumhunting.
Rolled's response to rust's defense is completely weak. "You gave reasoning for your vote, saying Chris was "shady."" Uh, no? I can see how you can put meaning behind rust's words (shady => gut feeling of scum), but that is just absurd. rust's vote against Chris was clearly RVS. Also, would you prefer a hesitant vote at RVS (scum tell, IMO) or a "hasty" one (null tell in RVS)?
Also, a note to Rolled: "x is scummy" does not mean "x is a scum tell", mostly because x has context which is lost when you reword it as a scum tell. For example, rust's statement "I think you're making hasty judgements, which is pretty scummy to me." could have been better worded (for the sake of this explanation) as "I find your hasty judgements against Ph0X scummy." From this, it's clear that you cannot directly translate those words into "hasty judgements are a scum tell". Of course, I am not saying it isn't (although I personally feel it's a newb tell, not a scum tell); I am just using this example to explain my point. (This paragraph is strictly about mafia, not this game.)
Either way, the comment by DxS following Rolled's initial accusation struck me as odd:
Wha.
Anyway, if you observe the last HNM, that plan didn't really work too tell day 1. Plus, I think we have much more information in this game than we did in that game; I brought up that method because there was basically no helpful discussion and we were in a time crunch.
(Also, no editing.)
Congratulations. You skipped over two possible obvious and not-strictly-mafia causes of my actions.Rolled wrote:
Ph0x: There are two situations where you would hope Chris isn't a dumbass.
Situation 1: He is your scum partner. This is less likely than situation 2, as you wouldn't associate yourself with fellow scum d1.
Situation 2: You know he is town, and you are attempting to associate yourself with another townie.
There's only two roles you can possess that let you know Chris is town d1. Both are scum.
I don't like players dragging the game down. I don't like players who just dick around, cause chaos, or play dumb when confronted. It really poisons game morale, and osu! mafia games don't exactly have the reputation of being highly motivated after the first day (for a number of reasons).
In a similar fashion, I don't like players throwing their hands up saying "I didn't get the role I wanted" or "I don't care about this game" and interrupting scumhunting, providing misleads, etc. That behaviour detriments the town's ability to effectively play the game, giving the mafia a leg up.
The comment, although emotional and directed, did relate to gameplay as you saw. It was more of a comment that I hope Chris doesn't play poorly in this game.
I would recommend not including that as a factor. (That goes for you too, animask.) Then again, if you really want to use meta like that, go ahead.Rolled wrote:
I won't FoS or anything though because I'm pretty sure you died d1 in the last mafia. That would be mean to do it twice
Rolled commented on rust's "hypocrisy". I completely disagree that it was hypocritical of rust to make that statement against Rolled. Rolled implied that he was "done" scumhunting (as in, he had completed his hunt and found his prey) so early and quickly into the game (based on just one comment by me). rust saw this as "hasty judgement" on Rolled's part. Contrast this to a RVS vote against Chris, with the comment "I don't know you, you seem pretty shady to me." Clearly, rust isn't making judgements against Chris (as it's obviously not an "I built a case against you; defend yourself" offense). Knowing Rolled, the "what?" could have been just pointing out something silly he noticed, but then again, based on his previous gameplay, I can guess the detail also may factor into Rolled's scumhunting.
Rolled's response to rust's defense is completely weak. "You gave reasoning for your vote, saying Chris was "shady."" Uh, no? I can see how you can put meaning behind rust's words (shady => gut feeling of scum), but that is just absurd. rust's vote against Chris was clearly RVS. Also, would you prefer a hesitant vote at RVS (scum tell, IMO) or a "hasty" one (null tell in RVS)?
Also, a note to Rolled: "x is scummy" does not mean "x is a scum tell", mostly because x has context which is lost when you reword it as a scum tell. For example, rust's statement "I think you're making hasty judgements, which is pretty scummy to me." could have been better worded (for the sake of this explanation) as "I find your hasty judgements against Ph0X scummy." From this, it's clear that you cannot directly translate those words into "hasty judgements are a scum tell". Of course, I am not saying it isn't (although I personally feel it's a newb tell, not a scum tell); I am just using this example to explain my point. (This paragraph is strictly about mafia, not this game.)
Either way, the comment by DxS following Rolled's initial accusation struck me as odd:
It really, really irks me when people sheep like this (when I realize full well Rolled's "what", if taken as "you're being hypocritical", is complete bullshit). It makes me concerned that the shepherd will have no problems herding other players. It also makes me concerned that the sheep (DxS) is unable to be analytical. I would understand DxS's comment if it was his first game, but it is not, and he is making a derogatory comment against another player due to their (seeming) inexperience. So, to me, we lost a player (for the moment; not for the entire game, of course).DeathxShinigami wrote:
We got problems, rust doesn't know how to play this game.
Discuss.
Ignoring the light-hearted(-ish?) sarcasm in Rolled's post here, I am trying to look for the source of the "scumtell" exactly. How is a statement which is WIFOMly sarcasm (note the ";P") and completely meta (in intent; I can obviously see the gameplay affects) a scum tell? Basically, Rolled is just scumpainting me here. Setting me up for a day 2 lynch, I presume. (Typical Rolled play style, right?)Rolled wrote:
Hi my name is phox. I accidentally scumtell'd a page ago but I'm just going to brush it off as sarcasm, and plant heavy sarcasm in every sequential post to make my OP's "sarcasm" seem more legitimate.
Freudian slip? Rolled could be saying he's vanilla here.Rolled wrote:
... I'm going to place my scum vote on people who have given me scum tells. Not really much else to go on.
After, what, even a year, Two still holds this opinion. Break out of your comfort zone; you joined an osu! mafia game, so you participate in the osu! mafia metagame. RVS is standard practice in many mafia circles, and is effective (for all sides). Of course, as I'm sure have been told several times before, RVS ends when real discussion starts. Real discussion has already started. Hey, look! A random vote (by rust against Chris) sparked discussion! RVS is a great kickstarter, but it's not a stand-alone solution. Just ... deal with it. =\ (After writing this, I saw your comment on RVS which I must have missed earlier. Sorry if I came across as calling you a close-minded idiot. I still feel that way deep inside, but I didn't want to communicate it that harshly.)Two wrote:
the "lets all vote for random people ^__^" sentiment is horrible if you actually are town, since it 100% guarantees town dies day 1
I said this because of the shepherding and faulty logic (intentional or not) I noticed earlier (but could not thoroughly comment on, until now). Plus, it would be really amusing if I had a bandwagon on me, especially due to the faulty claims against me. No, I am not shivering under pressure, or whatever you (Rolled, Two, and everyone else) may have thought.Ph0X wrote:
Also, I will find it highly amusing if you manage a bandwagon against me.
Too much bookworming, dude. (You're showing your lack of experience, in short.) Think of the ways a double-voter would be played (in Two's shoes or even your own); I think you'd gain a lot from it.rust45 wrote:
Two could be this. I mean it is Experimental so basically anything goes.
Again with this meta. Vote for me if you want. If I was mafia, I could sabotage the game for you townies, so your line of thinking turns meaningless.Rolled wrote:
ph0x, I'd rather not have you lynched d1 because you are one of the stronger minds, and with the most experience, in this game. That's the logistic side of me. If I went with my gut, I would vote for you.
But truth is, you getting lynched d1 as pro-town is a huge win for mafia. It's not worthwhile to take that chance on a gut feeling.
Sorry I haven't been active; I have been busy the two days. I already kinda explained the reasoning behind my attitude, and I am sure you can fill in the blanks.Rolled wrote:
But at the same time, I wish you'd be giving me more reason to think you're pro-town. You've yet to say anything in this thread constructive towards the game. All you've been doing is trying to evade pressure by shrugging everything off as sarcasm.
Yeah; your sarcasmdar is totally screwy. Go re-read animask's voting post.Rolled wrote:
[FoS] animask: You gave no reason for voting for me other than that you thought my logic was wrong. You didn't mention anything I did specifically that you thought was scummy.
I can see why you're discouraging DxS for his reasoning (and I completely agree), but I don't see why you're trying to get the vote off of Chris and "somewhere else". Why aren't you telling Chris to change his vote? In addition, DxS's reasoning is a "good cop-out" if DxS is a town (or of any alignment, really) who has nothing to go on, too. (Again with the scumpainting, yeah?)Rolled wrote:
DxS: Making personal votes doesn't benefit town. Chris is in the game whether you like it or not, so place your vote somewhere else unless there's a reason you're voting Chris that we don't know. It's a good cop-out if you're mafia, though.
Translation: if I was looking to lynch whoever is least active, I would lynch Chris.Two wrote:
ignoring all other factors, my ideal lynch as town is chris cause he isn't that active
Wha.
As I have stated, Rolled's general scumpainting and "extreme" scumhunting behaviour is part of his meta, in my opinion.animask wrote:
Rolled, you seem to be pressuring players a bit by lightly accusing them of being mafia. Seems like a Cop sort of thing. Aux/Mafia
Can you elaborate upon this? What information has rust provided, in your opinion?animask wrote:
rust45, information without much accusation. Seems kind of townie.
Don't tunnel me as superhelpfultownieperson so much...animask wrote:
Two, a bit annoying, but why vote for Ph0X? If Ph0X survives another day we might have a lead.
These two are not mutually exclusive. Also, "knowing" the latter wouldn't mean anything, because lurking is a behaviour, and not strictly a player or role trait or tell. (It is a tell circumstantially, but in 99% of scenarios that isn't important now.)animask wrote:
Chris, newbie or lurker. Which one could it be?
Typo? Did you mean "most likely to be pro-mafia"?Rolled wrote:
Alright, at this point in time we are going nowhere and town has a 0% chance of getting a mafia lynch d1.
Instead of gathering your own biased opinions (myself included) that nobody is likely to agree on, I think the best play right now is to find the person you feel most likely to be pro-town and hop on the wagon.
Anyway, if you observe the last HNM, that plan didn't really work too tell day 1. Plus, I think we have much more information in this game than we did in that game; I brought up that method because there was basically no helpful discussion and we were in a time crunch.
Take away the random and not-serious votes and you have Two voting against me, Rolled voting against rust, and (I guess; reasoning is super-weak even if I believed Chris; more OMGUS than anything) Chris voting against DxS.Rolled wrote:
That said, the people currently voting are:
Chris (DxS)
DxS (Chris)
Two (Ph0x)
Rolled (rust)
animask (Rolled)
There's a 5 way tie for 1 vote, 4 are not voting.
Then contribute and stop being such a faggot? Mafia is a game where you need to be involved and participate. Clues don't just come to you; you have to go out and seek them. One way to do this is to re-read posts. Another is to look at social and voting graphs. Just do something besides waiting for a bandwagon. I have a feeling you're scum at this point, if not a harmful townie.Quaraezha wrote:
Anyway, not sure who to vote yet.
What, so admitting you (DxS) were wrong and your logic was flawed is scum behaviour now?Two wrote:
It's one thing to be like "I was rolefishing", but to do a 180 with halfassed logic isn't cutting it for me. Especially right after you were voted for.
unvote, vote: deathxshinigami
Well, if you want to think that way, yes. It would definitely be that way if this was a WWG. But this is mafia, which is a very different game, so I don't think such harm like you suggest will happen.DeathxShinigami wrote:
Have a feeling it'll just be Rolled/Two/Chris vs. everyone else
I think Two just hates everyone who disrupts the SNR negatively.bmin11 wrote:
Why not Rolled or Ph0X? Just wondering why since rust45 isn't holding much attention by the othersTwo wrote:
if I were mafia, I would night kill rust45
Yeah, well, you guys naturally gravitate toward each other. You and Rolled have similar play styles. And, of course, there's meta history. Do you really think people are dumb enough (given the meta information) not to make (at some point) the association DxS made?Two wrote:
you wishDeathxShinigami wrote:
Have a feeling it'll just be Rolled/Two/Chris vs. everyone else
do you really think people are dumb enough to not notice you trying to paint us as a team? you've done it twice now, with what reason I wonder?
In my experience, that's not true.Rolled wrote:
edit: To elaborate, stop defending people you have no reason to defend. People should be fully capable of defending themselves. The fact that everybody is defending people other than themselves is not a pro-town trait.
(Also, no editing.)
lololol. I am. ;PRolled wrote:
ph0x you better be fucking posting
Good point! (Bravo!) I didn't see that myself; I was looking at it more from the "hopeless townie" angle.animask wrote:
The reason I think you're sus(s) is because you are accusing almost everyone of being mafia.
That is actually a scum tell. You seem pressured for some reason and that is why I voted for you.
I wonder if this post disproves your stupidly retarded theory. I didn't expect myself to post a wall of over 1500 words, but shit happens. I love mafia. ;PTwo wrote:
well, it's good to know that animask and ph0x are mafia day 1
I wish you would write maybe like 1/3 the length of that post 3x as often.
brb sleep.
brb sleep.
First, I'd like to thank you for pairing me with Ph0X~
(I'm not mafia and even if I was, I wouldn't need to respond so much to his posts in-thread.)
Second, I'd like to say that I am holding any sus(s) with Ph0X until scum tell or Day 2 arrives.
Lastly, I might as well comment on Ph0X's recent thoughts.
@Ph0X, I know metagaming and tunneling isn't good, but I don't know what you would post in a Day 2 situation
and I want to find out.
information. I guess now hes just avoiding accusation. I'm not sure how to mark that kind of behavior.
Maybe scum...
My turn for question asking.
Question: Do you assume everyone else is townie, mafia or neutral until proven guilty? Most of the time?
(I'm not mafia and even if I was, I wouldn't need to respond so much to his posts in-thread.)
Second, I'd like to say that I am holding any sus(s) with Ph0X until scum tell or Day 2 arrives.
Lastly, I might as well comment on Ph0X's recent thoughts.
Why vanilla? I don't really get what you're trying to point out. Re-read and I still can't see it.Ph0X wrote:
Freudian slip? Rolled could be saying he's vanilla here.Rolled wrote:
... I'm going to place my scum vote on people who have given me scum tells. Not really much else to go on.
@Ph0X, I know metagaming and tunneling isn't good, but I don't know what you would post in a Day 2 situation
and I want to find out.
The research he did about the doublevoter. Actually, now that I look again he hasn't really given muchPh0X wrote:
Can you elaborate upon this? What information has rust provided, in your opinion?
information. I guess now hes just avoiding accusation. I'm not sure how to mark that kind of behavior.
Maybe scum...
My turn for question asking.
Question: Do you assume everyone else is townie, mafia or neutral until proven guilty? Most of the time?
Let me first state that there is a very fine line between scum painting and scum hunting. Different players, when holding different roles, act differently. This psychology aspect of WWG/Mafia games is the sole reason why I play the game. And you can't get players to give a reaction unless you give them something to react to.
And for the record, I never intended a bandwagon to start against you nor did I expect it. However, the longer it took for you to state some well-thought ideas ITT, the more wary I became.
Not to mention, I believe I've played in every game that Chris has played in, and I never recall him behaving like you mentioned. If you wish to attack people's playstyle I think you could find a better target than Chris.
But other than that, to comment on your idea behind this chapter of the book you wrote, it's hard to feel comfortable lynching an experienced player with the little information provided d1. Meta is an important part of every Mafia game, and successful players know how to keep their meta consistent regardless of the role they possess. Group that with the likelihood that as town, you're high on the NK priority, I don't feel exempting you from d1 lynch is a bad idea.
Maybe that's WIFOMish. But I never understood the concept of WIFOM anyway.
[quote="ph0x:]I can see why you're discouraging DxS for his reasoning (and I completely agree), but I don't see why you're trying to get the vote off of Chris and "somewhere else". Why aren't you telling Chris to change his vote? In addition, DxS's reasoning is a "good cop-out" if DxS is a town (or of any alignment, really) who has nothing to go on, too. (Again with the scumpainting, yeah?)[/quote]
First and foremost, Chris is probably one of the most stubborn people I've ever met. He could vote for somebody because of the shirt they're wearing, and I couldn't pay him to change it. Other than that, I don't take Chris's vote to be as OMGUS as you're making it out to be. OMGUS votes tend to more on the RVS side of the spectrum, and Chris has not only explained himself, but also has questioned DxS on numerous occasions. I understand that DxS has responded to the questioning as of right now, but that doesn't deter from the fact that the vote is not as OMGUS as you may think.
[quote"ph0x":9b868]
Typo? Did you mean "most likely to be pro-mafia"?Sarcasm? I'm assuming it's trolly because otherwise it makes no sense.
And did you truly suggest the same thing HNM1? I did quite a bit meta research, but did not see that. Well done if so, I like the thinking behind it (even though you said it didn't work well)
p.s. - Sorry Ph0x but I'm not going through this entire post to capitalize your P in every quote
I don't think those other two scenarios are as obvious as you're making them out to be. A lot of people play this game cautiously, and wait for somebody to display themselves as a dumbass so they can rest well after placing their vote, especially d1. I'll admit that the other two scenarios are apparent, now, but I wouldn't have called them obvious. Given your meta it is a valid defense.Ph0X wrote:
Congratulations. You skipped over two possible obvious and not-strictly-mafia causes of my actions.
I don't like players dragging the game down. I don't like players who just dick around, cause chaos, or play dumb when confronted. It really poisons game morale, and osu! mafia games don't exactly have the reputation of being highly motivated after the first day (for a number of reasons).
In a similar fashion, I don't like players throwing their hands up saying "I didn't get the role I wanted" or "I don't care about this game" and interrupting scumhunting, providing misleads, etc. That behaviour detriments the town's ability to effectively play the game, giving the mafia a leg up.
The comment, although emotional and directed, did relate to gameplay as you saw. It was more of a comment that I hope Chris doesn't play poorly in this game.
And for the record, I never intended a bandwagon to start against you nor did I expect it. However, the longer it took for you to state some well-thought ideas ITT, the more wary I became.
Not to mention, I believe I've played in every game that Chris has played in, and I never recall him behaving like you mentioned. If you wish to attack people's playstyle I think you could find a better target than Chris.
As far as Rust's hypocrisy, when taken literally, his OP and reasoning for suspecting me could not have been more hypocritical. Regardless of the fact that rust's post was a RVS, that doesn't change the fact.ph0x wrote:
I completely disagree that it was hypocritical of rust to make that statement against Rolled
Could you please elaborate on your thought process here? Are you suggesting that I'm setting you up for a d2 lynch as scum, or as town.ph0x wrote:
Basically, Rolled is just scumpainting me here. Setting me up for a day 2 lynch, I presume
The wording here by you is strange. I can label deliberate grouping-of-oneself-with-town to be scummy sometimes, but I've never seen somebody deliberately group themselves with mafia, even with the context of your sentence. You're asking somebody to call you out here with the way you've worded this.ph0x wrote:
Again with this meta. Vote for me if you want. If I was mafia, I could sabotage the game for you townies, so your line of thinking turns meaningless.Rolled wrote:
ph0x, I'd rather not have you lynched d1 because you are one of the stronger minds, and with the most experience, in this game. That's the logistic side of me. If I went with my gut, I would vote for you.
But truth is, you getting lynched d1 as pro-town is a huge win for mafia. It's not worthwhile to take that chance on a gut feeling.
But other than that, to comment on your idea behind this chapter of the book you wrote, it's hard to feel comfortable lynching an experienced player with the little information provided d1. Meta is an important part of every Mafia game, and successful players know how to keep their meta consistent regardless of the role they possess. Group that with the likelihood that as town, you're high on the NK priority, I don't feel exempting you from d1 lynch is a bad idea.
Maybe that's WIFOMish. But I never understood the concept of WIFOM anyway.
[quote="ph0x:]I can see why you're discouraging DxS for his reasoning (and I completely agree), but I don't see why you're trying to get the vote off of Chris and "somewhere else". Why aren't you telling Chris to change his vote? In addition, DxS's reasoning is a "good cop-out" if DxS is a town (or of any alignment, really) who has nothing to go on, too. (Again with the scumpainting, yeah?)[/quote]
First and foremost, Chris is probably one of the most stubborn people I've ever met. He could vote for somebody because of the shirt they're wearing, and I couldn't pay him to change it. Other than that, I don't take Chris's vote to be as OMGUS as you're making it out to be. OMGUS votes tend to more on the RVS side of the spectrum, and Chris has not only explained himself, but also has questioned DxS on numerous occasions. I understand that DxS has responded to the questioning as of right now, but that doesn't deter from the fact that the vote is not as OMGUS as you may think.
[quote"ph0x":9b868]
Typo? Did you mean "most likely to be pro-mafia"?Sarcasm? I'm assuming it's trolly because otherwise it makes no sense.
And did you truly suggest the same thing HNM1? I did quite a bit meta research, but did not see that. Well done if so, I like the thinking behind it (even though you said it didn't work well)
Maybe it isn't true, but that's flawed logic in the defending player, then. The only people that have valid reason to defend another person would be Mafia and the Cop. A town member taking some of the heat off of somebody who is possibly anti-town could easily generate false tells, which isn't beneficial for himself personally nor his faction.ph0x wrote:
In my experience, that's not true.Rolled wrote:
edit: To elaborate, stop defending people you have no reason to defend. People should be fully capable of defending themselves. The fact that everybody is defending people other than themselves is not a pro-town trait.
I obviously don't assume everybody is mafia as that's not possible, however it's a safer bet to assume any one given person is mafia until proven otherwise. And it's important to never put all of your trust in any one person until you have very valid, and publicly accepted, reason to do so.animask wrote:
Question: Do you assume everyone else is townie, mafia or neutral until proven guilty? Most of the time?
p.s. - Sorry Ph0x but I'm not going through this entire post to capitalize your P in every quote
Things like this are best left unsaid to the public. It completely nullifies that reasoning since you've now personally made it publicly known.animask wrote:
(I'm not mafia and even if I was, I wouldn't need to respond so much to his posts in-thread.)
Also holy shit I should have previewed my textwall.
About defending other people, I'm not an offensive (nor good at scum hunting) player I thought the other way to contribute would to eliminate any errors from the accusation or pointing out other possiblities. If I can make people to review their thought, I'm glad I could
Respond to animask's question:
Answer is obviously no. We can never be 100% sure with people's role
Respond to animask's question:
Answer is obviously no. We can never be 100% sure with people's role
As Rolled stated, this statement is scummy.animask wrote:
(I'm not mafia and even if I was, I wouldn't need to respond so much to his posts in-thread.)
"Not really much else to go on." Mafia members, cops, and to a certain extent doctors do have extra information to go on. Vanillas don't.animask wrote:
Why vanilla? I don't really get what you're trying to point out. Re-read and I still can't see it.Ph0X wrote:
[quote removed]
Freudian slip? Rolled could be saying he's vanilla here.
Everyone wants to win. I see everyone as neutral, then shift them toward townie or mafia. Sure, it leads me to keeping players on those sides (sort of a tunnel vision), but it's just how I see the game.animask wrote:
My turn for question asking.
Question: Do you assume everyone else is townie, mafia or neutral until proven guilty? Most of the time?
What does that have to do with scumpainting and scumhunting?Rolled wrote:
Let me first state that there is a very fine line between scum painting and scum hunting. Different players, when holding different roles, act differently. This psychology aspect of WWG/Mafia games is the sole reason why I play the game. And you can't get players to give a reaction unless you give them something to react to.
Coo'.Rolled wrote:
I don't think those other two scenarios are as obvious as you're making them out to be. A lot of people play this game cautiously, and wait for somebody to display themselves as a dumbass so they can rest well after placing their vote, especially d1. I'll admit that the other two scenarios are apparent, now, but I wouldn't have called them obvious. Given your meta it is a valid defense.
You may mean "when taken seriously"; rust's statement wasn't figurative. rust's initial vote wasn't meant to be taken seriously; because you took it seriously, you misinterpreted, thus leading to this name-calling argument.Rolled wrote:
As far as Rust's hypocrisy, when taken literally, his OP and reasoning for suspecting me could not have been more hypocritical. Regardless of the fact that rust's post was a RVS, that doesn't change the fact.ph0x wrote:
I completely disagree that it was hypocritical of rust to make that statement against Rolled
"Look; Ph0X was scummy day 1 (as I pointed out here). He tried to cover it up, but now we've got him!"Rolled wrote:
Could you please elaborate on your thought process here? Are you suggesting that I'm setting you up for a d2 lynch as scum, or as town.ph0x wrote:
Basically, Rolled is just scumpainting me here. Setting me up for a day 2 lynch, I presume
Something like that.
There are two scenarios here (unless there's some neutral alignment):Rolled wrote:
The wording here by you is strange. I can label deliberate grouping-of-oneself-with-town to be scummy sometimes, but I've never seen somebody deliberately group themselves with mafia, even with the context of your sentence. You're asking somebody to call you out here with the way you've worded this.ph0x wrote:
[quote removed]
Again with this meta. Vote for me if you want. If I was mafia, I could sabotage the game for you townies, so your line of thinking turns meaningless.
I am town. I can use my experience to help the town greatly with scumhunting.
I am mafia. I can use my experience and meta influence to steer the town in the wrong direction.
It seems you only considered the first, not the second, case.
If I am understanding you correctly, no, that is not WIFOM.Rolled wrote:
Maybe that's WIFOMish. But I never understood the concept of WIFOM anyway.
[Formatting corrected in quote]Rolled wrote:
First and foremost, Chris is probably one of the most stubborn people I've ever met. He could vote for somebody because of the shirt they're wearing, and I couldn't pay him to change it. Other than that, I don't take Chris's vote to be as OMGUS as you're making it out to be. OMGUS votes tend to more on the RVS side of the spectrum, and Chris has not only explained himself, but also has questioned DxS on numerous occasions. I understand that DxS has responded to the questioning as of right now, but that doesn't deter from the fact that the vote is not as OMGUS as you may think.ph0x wrote:
I can see why you're discouraging DxS for his reasoning (and I completely agree), but I don't see why you're trying to get the vote off of Chris and "somewhere else". Why aren't you telling Chris to change his vote? In addition, DxS's reasoning is a "good cop-out" if DxS is a town (or of any alignment, really) who has nothing to go on, too. (Again with the scumpainting, yeah?)
I don't think you saw or addressed the issue here. I guess it's not important enough for you to respond to, though.
[Formatting corrected in quote]Rolled wrote:
Sarcasm? I'm assuming it's trolly because otherwise it makes no sense.ph0x wrote:
Typo? Did you mean "most likely to be pro-mafia"?
Let me isolate the confusion:
Wouldn't you hop on the wagon against the person you feel is most likely to be pro-mafia?Rolled wrote:
... find the person you feel most likely to be pro-town and hop on the wagon
See my vote against Mashley.Rolled wrote:
And did you truly suggest the same thing HNM1? I did quite a bit meta research, but did not see that. Well done if so, I like the thinking behind it (even though you said it didn't work well)
Different people have different perspectives. The person who is being attacked should try to defend themselves, yes. But realize there are other players in the game, and that the ideas as reasonings behind the offense and the defense can (and should) be analyzed by all other players. Faulty reasoning is dangerous (and often crafted and hidden), and if it isn't called out the mafia have a better chance of winning each time.Rolled wrote:
Maybe it isn't true, but that's flawed logic in the defending player, then. The only people that have valid reason to defend another person would be Mafia and the Cop. A town member taking some of the heat off of somebody who is possibly anti-town could easily generate false tells, which isn't beneficial for himself personally nor his faction.ph0x wrote:
[quote removed about defending other players]
In my experience, that's not true.
IMO, it's less about defending the attacked person than attacking the attacker.
I see, there's been some confusion here.Ph0x wrote:
Wouldn't you hop on the wagon against the person you feel is most likely to be pro-mafia?
Let me iterate on my original logic.
I said this because the votes were scattered evenly throughout the board. If we continued to move like this, it's impossible to get a Mafia lynch as all it would taken was one mafia member to bandwagon and get somebody lynched with 2 votes D1.Rolled wrote:
Alright, at this point in time we are going nowhere and town has a 0% chance of getting a mafia lynch d1.
There were RV's, there were arguable OMGUS, and there was biased reasoning (gut feelings, etc) Nobody had real meat behind any votes.Rolled wrote:
Instead of gathering your own biased opinions (myself included) that nobody is likely to agree on, I think the best play right now is to find the person you feel most likely to be pro-town and hop on the wagon
Of the 5/9 people voting at the time, I've come up with some reason to feel uneasy about 4 out of the 5. (rust, DxS, Two, and animask) If any of them turned out to be Mafia, which I thought (obviously) was a possibility, then they were voting for a town member. Hence I did not want to vote the same way as any of the four.Rolled wrote:
I have reason to suspect everybody on that list except for Chris. If any of those 5 people turn out to be mafia, there's a very small chance that they're voting for fellow mafia, so I'm not going to wagon and get a townie lynched.
As I've said, Chris was the only person of the 5 voting that I had no reason to suspect at the time. He had the smallest chance of being Mafia in my mind. Obviously, even if he was Town, he could be voting for another member of town, but the odds are better that he isn't, when compared with everybody else. Flawed math maybe, it sounded better in my head than on paper.
As I have also stated, a bandwagon needs to start for the smallest chance of a successful d1 lynching. When I said "hop on," I meant "vote alongside the person who you thought was most likely to be town."
Rolled wrote:
Experimental logic.
Innocent until proven guilty is what I go by. It's kinda close-minded but I don't like to try to directly accuse others, but look for good reasons as to why they're probably scum and let the lynch hopefully prove their guilt.animask wrote:
My turn for question asking.
Question: Do you assume everyone else is townie, mafia or neutral until proven guilty? Most of the time?
3 options:
1. rolled and ph0x are both mafia and are trying to seem like they are on opposite sides
2. rolled or ph0x is mafia and is trying to create immunity for themselves
3. rolled and ph0x are both vanilla town and are posting so much because they don't have anything to lose
what do you all think
1. rolled and ph0x are both mafia and are trying to seem like they are on opposite sides
2. rolled or ph0x is mafia and is trying to create immunity for themselves
3. rolled and ph0x are both vanilla town and are posting so much because they don't have anything to lose
what do you all think
I just think they both have "I wanna disprove you" egos because they're both experienced at the game. Maybe I'm reading it wrong though.Two wrote:
3 options:
1. rolled and ph0x are both mafia and are trying to seem like they are on opposite sides
2. rolled or ph0x is mafia and is trying to create immunity for themselves
3. rolled and ph0x are both vanilla town and are posting so much because they don't have anything to lose
what do you all think
1. is out of the question on D1, no mafia would sacrifice another member on D1, would make it almost impossible to win.Two wrote:
3 options:
1. rolled and ph0x are both mafia and are trying to seem like they are on opposite sides
2. rolled or ph0x is mafia and is trying to create immunity for themselves
3. rolled and ph0x are both vanilla town and are posting so much because they don't have anything to lose
what do you all think
Well, it's a good sign for me since I couldn't fully understand Rolled's experimental vote until now. It's better then townies just wondering around having nothing said.
He meant by "distancing themselves"rust45 wrote:
1. is out of the question on D1, no mafia would sacrifice another member on D1, would make it almost impossible to win.
Okay; that's all I needed to know. (I had already accounted for that possibility, but I still wanted a clarification to be sure that's what you meant.)Rolled wrote:
As I have also stated, a bandwagon needs to start for the smallest chance of a successful d1 lynching. When I said "hop on," I meant "vote alongside the person who you thought was most likely to be town."
Yeah. I know. I understood it completely.Rolled wrote:
Experimental logic.
I vote for option 2. That sounds coolest.Two wrote:
3 options:
1. rolled and ph0x are both mafia and are trying to seem like they are on opposite sides
2. rolled or ph0x is mafia and is trying to create immunity for themselves
3. rolled and ph0x are both vanilla town and are posting so much because they don't have anything to lose
what do you all think
Why ... didn't you say anything?bmin11 wrote:
Well, it's a good sign for me since I couldn't fully understand Rolled's experimental vote until now. It's better then townies just wondering around having nothing said.
Okay, I'm back to normal...Two wrote:
3 options:
1. rolled and ph0x are both mafia and are trying to seem like they are on opposite sides
2. rolled or ph0x is mafia and is trying to create immunity for themselves
3. rolled and ph0x are both vanilla town and are posting so much because they don't have anything to lose
I don't think Rolled and Ph0X are both mafia, but only because of the odds. With the third option that you posted,
I'd like to say that posting a lot can go towards townie or mafia. The only dangers of posting would be to say
something that can be considered a scum tell. I guess I'd have to go with option 2 since there isn't any other good options.
Now to answer my own question so I don't leave myself out of the results...
I'd think that most of the people I see are townies, because there are less mafia members to begin with. Then, I
would find out who is suspicious and avoid even stating an FoS until I have some good evidence to prove it. With Rolled,
I just went with my gut and also, since unvoting is allowed(sorta), I decided to vote instead of FoS. The reason for voting before an FoS
was also because I wanted to find out if Rolled was suspicious or if his playstyle was making me think that. By voting, I could
add more pressure on him and make him feel pressured.
I try to play without using much emotion to influence my ideas or thoughts.
@Rolled
Yes, the mafia will vote for a townie almost 100%. Also, I see how Chris would be on your "townie" list at the time, but what
will happen if Chris votes for someone who is currently being voted for? Have you figured out how he fits into the game then?
@Ph0X
I just realized that your acts of thinking as if you were mafia and actually getting away with it is kind of making me jealous.
--(Meta-game Zone)--
In other/previous games, I've failed to do that multiple times. In HNM1, Day 1 was when people were reading me as scum
for all my posts. Luckily, I didn't get lynched, but I had to save myself and ended up getting the Cop killed instead. The reason
for that was role-fishing. In another mafia game, I was also accused of role-fishing and had nobody else to claim as mafia and
no idea how to defend myself.
--------
The reason for this is probably because I'm horrible at looking like a pro-townie.
Also, I meant that it should be obvious that townies have less information to go by than aux/mafia (especially mafia).
Why would that be considered townie? Freudian slip... which means you're saying that you think he is townie? That doesn't seem
like enough information to go by.
@Chris
You actually make sense with your very few post(s). Rolled and Ph0X do seem experienced, but if they only try to disprove
each others ideas, then that is more like a conflict than a discussion. I see more of a discussion in their posts.
Is that enough for this post? Yeah, I think so.
Reason why I didn't ask for Rolled's experimental vote:Ph0X wrote:
Why ... didn't you say anything?bmin11 wrote:
Well, it's a good sign for me since I couldn't fully understand Rolled's experimental vote until now. It's better then townies just wondering around having nothing said.
I thought I understood when I read his post, but after reading Rolled's elaborated post, I realized I didn't fully understood his vote. Similar (or worse since I believed I understood it) with you I guess.
Reason why I didn't say much:
Because of the same reason between you and DxS on HNM1. I couldn't really add much into it, but busy reading walls of texts and Rolled's "stop defending someone it only makes you look suspicious" post made me think again before posting (thought my posts could only be misleading Rolled's thinking)
this game has such bad chemistry
all I've been able to conclude is that animask and rolled don't know each other's roles
oh and that quaraezha is mafia
all I've been able to conclude is that animask and rolled don't know each other's roles
oh and that quaraezha is mafia
I noticed that DeathxShinigami stopped posting once they got voted against, almost two days now.
I didn't consider that because this strategy will only be valid d1. The nightkill will hopefully provide enough information to bring up stronger points against players.animask wrote:
@Rolled
Yes, the mafia will vote for a townie almost 100%. Also, I see how Chris would be on your "townie" list at the time, but what
will happen if Chris votes for someone who is currently being voted for? Have you figured out how he fits into the game then?
Pretty sure the vote count is as follows:
DxS - 3 (Rolled, Chris, Two)
Rolled - 1 (animask)
Sorry if I missed anybody, I was just skimming.
My question to everybody else:
What is your reason for not voting?
Like I said to animask's question: "Innocent until proven guilty." Basically, I don't find there to be enough scummy behavior on anyone to vote just yet.
I would imagine that scumhunting and "innocent until proven guilty" need to go hand and hand.
Do you expect somebody to jump up and down and claim mafia? Or are you letting other players do the hunting?
Do you expect somebody to jump up and down and claim mafia? Or are you letting other players do the hunting?
I got prodded. I am posting.
Currently getting off work atm.
So I shall post more later tonight...
Currently getting off work atm.
So I shall post more later tonight...
It's odd that you've posted twice in another game, while neglecting to post in this one.DeathxShinigami wrote:
So I shall post more later tonight...
The fact that you're pointing it out actually disturbs me for some reason.Chris wrote:
It's odd that you've posted twice in another game, while neglecting to post in this one.DeathxShinigami wrote:
So I shall post more later tonight...
these posts make me rage so hardDeathxShinigami wrote:
I got prodded. I am posting.
Currently getting off work atm.
So I shall post more later tonight...
if you can post something that long (and do a followup post ^) you can post something substantive
Rules say my vote won't count until 24 hours before the deadline. Plus, I haven't had time to analyze the game again.Rolled wrote:
My question to everybody else:
What is your reason for not voting?
Not really. I can squeeze in a minute or two at work, but not 30 minutes or an hour to do some in-depth analysis like I have done before.Two wrote:
these posts make me rage so hardDeathxShinigami wrote:
I got prodded. I am posting.
Currently getting off work atm.
So I shall post more later tonight...
if you can post something that long (and do a followup post ^) you can post something substantive
Topic Starter
MOD: Not to intrude, but if someone reaches the lynch amount before then, they will be lynched like normal.Ph0X wrote:
Rules say my vote won't count until 24 hours before the deadline. Plus, I haven't had time to analyze the game again.
Topic Starter
DxS has requested replacement: Finding a replacement for DxS.
Topic Starter
foulcoon will be replacing DxS, once he posts in thread.
replacing DxS fa sho, because Rolled wanted me to play mafia. Give me a few to actually read the thread 
OH MY GOD I CAN'T VOTE FOR FOULCOON :(:(:(
:(:(:(
Topic Starter
Votes are transfered to the new replacements in games, so you technically are.Rolled wrote:
OH MY GOD I CAN'T VOTE FOR FOULCOON
Wooo so that gives me what, 3 votes already? Thanks DxS!
I read a good portion.
Its really obvious to me who is taking the game seriously right now, but a few things come to mind:
1. I would really like to hear more from Quaraezha, because I don't care much for people who post multiple times with absolutely no substance.
2. I would really like to hear less from Ph0x (lol), because there is such a thing as taking it too seriously. I tried to read your walls of text but I'll have to go back to them later to actually figure out what you're getting at.
3. The more animask posts the more I think he's mafia.
No vote for now.
I read a good portion.
Its really obvious to me who is taking the game seriously right now, but a few things come to mind:
1. I would really like to hear more from Quaraezha, because I don't care much for people who post multiple times with absolutely no substance.
2. I would really like to hear less from Ph0x (lol), because there is such a thing as taking it too seriously. I tried to read your walls of text but I'll have to go back to them later to actually figure out what you're getting at.
3. The more animask posts the more I think he's mafia.
No vote for now.
The lack of votes from everybody makes it really hard to tell what direction this game will be going, and how D1 will end. I'm not too familiar with DxS's meta but the fact that he asked for a replacement rather than just giving up and letting the votes fall how they may D1 makes me think that he had a power role in this game. Wifom wifom wifom.
After finishing thoroughly reading posts, I'm going to vote: rust45
rust just seems to either be either:
a. putting little to no effort into the game and taking more of a spectator role
or
b. trying to stay under the radar
Its not really in our best interests to wait for someone to act super guilty, or role claim mafia. I just think that the way you're approaching this is all wrong.
I also think its funny that all that Innocent until proven Guilty bullshit came out of your mouth after voting Chris because you didn't know who he was. I get that its day one but come on.
rust just seems to either be either:
a. putting little to no effort into the game and taking more of a spectator role
or
b. trying to stay under the radar
Its not really in our best interests to wait for someone to act super guilty, or role claim mafia. I just think that the way you're approaching this is all wrong.
I also think its funny that all that Innocent until proven Guilty bullshit came out of your mouth after voting Chris because you didn't know who he was. I get that its day one but come on.
do you have any thoughts about why deathxshinigami would choose to leave this game and stay in the other(s), foulcoon?
Honestly? I'd say he probably bit off more than he could chew, or has more attention invested in the other games. From reading his responses in this thread, they were generally short and didn't seem focused at all.
If you look at HNM1, you would see I basically played the same way, laying low and letting others do the investigation. I realize this isn't the best way to move about, but in a game that's fun to play in (even when giving as little input as I did in HNM1 and as people say now), survival is important to me, no matter the role.foulcoon wrote:
After finishing thoroughly reading posts, I'm going to vote: rust45
rust just seems to either be either:
a. putting little to no effort into the game and taking more of a spectator role
or
b. trying to stay under the radar
Its not really in our best interests to wait for someone to act super guilty, or role claim mafia. I just think that the way you're approaching this is all wrong.
However, I don't think I'm the only one trying to lay low, Quaraezha is barely posting and when he posts, there's no substance, honestly, I think that's more suspicious if you ask me, especially since he basically acted like this in the games he was scum in.
I don't use RVS to scum hunt, I use it to start conversation (like that vote did do) and I honestly don't think my RVS should be related to that.foulcoon wrote:
I also think its funny that all that Innocent until proven Guilty bullshit came out of your mouth after voting Chris because you didn't know who he was. I get that its day one but come on.
However, I will cast a FoS: Quaraezha because I want him to start talking hopefully.
Funny how I want to vote animask, but my gut never agrees with me.
(Meta gaming) Both rust45 and Q weren't active on the last game, one was found innocent and one was guilty, but their lurkiness lead to the same result, lynch. However, they chose to do this again. I'm wondering why they are taking the same action that lead to their lynch It's really hard to think if they are doing this intentionaly or just their play style. Either way, I agree that it's not beneficial to townies.
(Meta gaming) Both rust45 and Q weren't active on the last game, one was found innocent and one was guilty, but their lurkiness lead to the same result, lynch. However, they chose to do this again. I'm wondering why they are taking the same action that lead to their lynch
It's really hard to think if they are doing this intentionaly or just their play style. Either way, I agree that it's not beneficial to townies.hi guys
Sorry for being inactive, I've been really busy working on the layout for osu!monthly since I had a deadline.
Really had no time to read so many tl;dr posts (from other Mafia games too)
I'll try to catch up when I'm free.
Sorry for being inactive, I've been really busy working on the layout for osu!monthly since I had a deadline.
Really had no time to read so many tl;dr posts (from other Mafia games too)
I'll try to catch up when I'm free.
Once I start seeing good activity and substance I'll be fine. I'm actually really uneasy with you because you're acting like always (when looking at the other two games I was in with you) and when you act like that, you end up scum, I know meta shouldn't be used to vote on someone (at least I think so) but not talking in general is pretty scummy in itself. But for now, FoS.Quaraezha wrote:
hi guys
Sorry for being inactive, I've been really busy working on the layout for osu!monthly since I had a deadline.
Really had no time to read so many tl;dr posts (from other Mafia games too)
I'll try to catch up when I'm free.
again, I don't buy the cop-out posts where people say they don't have enough time to read/post in the thread
they always end up posting on other areas of the site and it takes like 5 minutes to participate
they always end up posting on other areas of the site and it takes like 5 minutes to participate
Vote: animask
Going to sleep now.
Going to sleep now.
No posts in the last 17 hours? =[
I was gonna ISO animask and rust (both FoS's) last night, but I fell asleep. So here they are.
rust ISO
I already stated my opinions of the whole rust vs Rolled "hasty judgement" thing. Re-analyzing things from Rolled's point of view doesn't seem to paint rust as scummy (not to say Rolled didn't paint rust as scum).
rust doesn't claim RVS votes are meaningless, so no tells there.
rust says there's not "enough scummy behavior on anyone to vote just yet". rust has done some very very minor scumhunting, and has been answering questions, and that's it. rust does not attempt to analyze things at this point.
Luckily, he next post of his shows some effort. It seems to have been sparked solely by a vote against him.
rust continues his defense by redirecting the fire toward Q, another relatively-inactive player. Clearly, rust feels really pressured, moreso than I would think for a townie. I'd like to look at his other game (HNM1) and see how he reacted to votes there.
rust pressure posts: HNM day 2, and ... no others. So, not much to go on. I still think rust feels "too" pressured.
rust's later comment on RVS shows better understanding of the game, as noted before.
animask ISO
After RVS has basically already ended, animask throws what looks like an RVS vote at Rolled. Before then, animask did nothing. Perhaps animask was discouraged from talking so early in the game due to what happened last game (HNM1); perhaps animask wants to be more cautious due to having an aux role.
After the maybe-RVS vote, animask throws in an odd comment. More on this in a bit.
animask then posts his "ideas" (not suspicions) list. I can't read anything from animask from the list. However, at the end, animask makes a comment toward Rolled: "I'm supposed to be reckless player." Seems like a bit of a setup (post 1, post 4, post 5). Really not sure what to make of it; could be a mafia tactic to cover up future mistakes, or just animask being animask.
animask's reply to Rolled's desperation provides some useful information (as I have mentioned before (see end of post)). animask seems so devoted to meta, though, which is dangerous.
animask's next post was fully responded to by me. My thoughts of the post have not changed.
Next, in animask's "back to normal" post, he responds to a few questions. He states his vote was intended to put pressure on Rolled. It ... didn't seem to work, because that mostly only works if there's some good reasoning against the player already (which could lead to a bandwagon). Either way, I didn't feel that was the original intent of animask's post.
May as well respond to your comments here:
To round up this ISO of animask ... It seems like animask is stepping up his game after being accused or noticed. This is a big shift from what animask would probably have done last game. At first, I concluded animask's behaviour was a scum tell, hence my vote. Now, I view it as a null-tell. Still, that "plan" of acting like a chaotic player I mentioned still irks me, and leads me to believe animask is hiding something.
... So.
FoS animask, FoS rust. I am keeping my vote on animask, mostly on gut feeling.
I don't have enough time and energy to do more ISO. Others are welcome to do their own, of course. (In fact, I encourage it. ;P)
I was gonna ISO animask and rust (both FoS's) last night, but I fell asleep. So here they are.
rust ISO
I already stated my opinions of the whole rust vs Rolled "hasty judgement" thing. Re-analyzing things from Rolled's point of view doesn't seem to paint rust as scummy (not to say Rolled didn't paint rust as scum).
rust doesn't claim RVS votes are meaningless, so no tells there.
rust says there's not "enough scummy behavior on anyone to vote just yet". rust has done some very very minor scumhunting, and has been answering questions, and that's it. rust does not attempt to analyze things at this point.
Luckily, he next post of his shows some effort. It seems to have been sparked solely by a vote against him.
Yeah, well, if it's an "always" thing, you shouldn't be using it to defend yourself, right?rust45 wrote:
... survival is important to me, no matter the role.
rust continues his defense by redirecting the fire toward Q, another relatively-inactive player. Clearly, rust feels really pressured, moreso than I would think for a townie. I'd like to look at his other game (HNM1) and see how he reacted to votes there.
rust pressure posts: HNM day 2, and ... no others. So, not much to go on. I still think rust feels "too" pressured.
rust's later comment on RVS shows better understanding of the game, as noted before.
animask ISO
After RVS has basically already ended, animask throws what looks like an RVS vote at Rolled. Before then, animask did nothing. Perhaps animask was discouraged from talking so early in the game due to what happened last game (HNM1); perhaps animask wants to be more cautious due to having an aux role.
After the maybe-RVS vote, animask throws in an odd comment. More on this in a bit.
animask then posts his "ideas" (not suspicions) list. I can't read anything from animask from the list. However, at the end, animask makes a comment toward Rolled: "I'm supposed to be reckless player." Seems like a bit of a setup (post 1, post 4, post 5). Really not sure what to make of it; could be a mafia tactic to cover up future mistakes, or just animask being animask.
animask's reply to Rolled's desperation provides some useful information (as I have mentioned before (see end of post)). animask seems so devoted to meta, though, which is dangerous.
animask's next post was fully responded to by me. My thoughts of the post have not changed.
Next, in animask's "back to normal" post, he responds to a few questions. He states his vote was intended to put pressure on Rolled. It ... didn't seem to work, because that mostly only works if there's some good reasoning against the player already (which could lead to a bandwagon). Either way, I didn't feel that was the original intent of animask's post.
May as well respond to your comments here:
Well, of course it's obvious. But the comment looked subconscious. A non-vanilla player, or a vanilla player conscious of what they were saying exactly, probably would not have said it so "casually"; they would have worded it differently, I think. It's certainly not a full tell, but just a hint and something I noticed.animask wrote:
Also, I meant that it should be obvious that townies have less information to go by than aux/mafia (especially mafia).
Why would that be considered townie? Freudian slip... which means you're saying that you think he is townie? That doesn't seem
like enough information to go by.
To round up this ISO of animask ... It seems like animask is stepping up his game after being accused or noticed. This is a big shift from what animask would probably have done last game. At first, I concluded animask's behaviour was a scum tell, hence my vote. Now, I view it as a null-tell. Still, that "plan" of acting like a chaotic player I mentioned still irks me, and leads me to believe animask is hiding something.
... So.
FoS animask, FoS rust. I am keeping my vote on animask, mostly on gut feeling.
I don't have enough time and energy to do more ISO. Others are welcome to do their own, of course. (In fact, I encourage it. ;P)
Also, hi, foul.
@Ph0X, The reason that I want to be cautious is because of how easily I become
suspicious. I realized that being reckless last time was sort of successful because of
my aux role roleclaim. After repeating this behavior, the results from last time just seemed situational.
Okay, now I see what you meant about the "freudian-slip" thing, but it seems more like a "townie-tell".
You meant something like that, right?
@foulcoon, (aka sexy bitch) (also, hi) you FoS'd rust45 for almost the same reasons that
got me FoS'd by Ph0X. You have examples with rust45 that are more concrete, so seeing some
evidence actually helps with Ph0X's explanation. Yet, this seems like just enough information
for me to put an FoS on rust.
FoS rust45
I guess I just was suspicious of Rolled because of his behavior at the start. That was my other reason as to why I voted for Rolled.
Things start to get more serious once the game starts moving. That was my other reason as to why I voted for Rolled.
suspicious. I realized that being reckless last time was sort of successful because of
my aux role roleclaim. After repeating this behavior, the results from last time just seemed situational.
Okay, now I see what you meant about the "freudian-slip" thing, but it seems more like a "townie-tell".
You meant something like that, right?
@foulcoon, (aka sexy bitch) (also, hi) you FoS'd rust45 for almost the same reasons that
got me FoS'd by Ph0X. You have examples with rust45 that are more concrete, so seeing some
evidence actually helps with Ph0X's explanation. Yet, this seems like just enough information
for me to put an FoS on rust.
FoS rust45
I guess I just was suspicious of Rolled because of his behavior at the start. That was my other reason as to why I voted for Rolled.
Things start to get more serious once the game starts moving. That was my other reason as to why I voted for Rolled.
Posting this as LS asked.
So I decided to try to do an ISO on Quaraezha, but there was so little in most of his posts that I couldn't really find much. I can say that none of his posts so far have been trying to scum hunt, and most of them, he's talking about himself.
I did find this though:
I also kinda agree with Two on the whole posts about talking about when you're busy. Course, only in cases that actually justify it (some busy posts probably are valid). Looking at Q's post history, it looks like he had plenty of time to come in and defend himself, yet he didn't.
Question to Mod: Isn't the deadline tomorrow? Will you still keep the deadline up? Also, you didn't reset votes 24 hours before the deadline.LadySuburu wrote:
Posting to say I have limited internet access (PS3 when I do.) until mon/tues. Will check on threads when I do have access but posting is difficult. If someone would pass this message on in the other two threads that would be great.
So I decided to try to do an ISO on Quaraezha, but there was so little in most of his posts that I couldn't really find much. I can say that none of his posts so far have been trying to scum hunt, and most of them, he's talking about himself.
I did find this though:
This is the only post I found where he was talking about somebody else, but he didn't even provide a reason. If it's just you're gut, at least take the five seconds to say, "My gut thinks he's town"Quaraezha wrote:
I don't honestly think DxS is mafia too actually.
I also kinda agree with Two on the whole posts about talking about when you're busy. Course, only in cases that actually justify it (some busy posts probably are valid). Looking at Q's post history, it looks like he had plenty of time to come in and defend himself, yet he didn't.
I'm pretty sure it passed the 24 hours before lynch time. I don't see any vote reset :<
Is this some kind of a role act or is it just LS being forgetfull?
Is this some kind of a role act or is it just LS being forgetfull?
For someone who's posts have amounted to basically "I'm not sure", you sure are eager to cast your final vote.
Yes I'm still not sure, but I was curious if there's such role as "no vote resets" or something + everyone's posts before they vote. It's the time where people start summarizes their thoughts and I thought this may help me making my thought outTwo wrote:
For someone who's posts have amounted to basically "I'm not sure", you sure are eager to cast your final vote.
well it's been 4 days 18 hours and 55? minutes since the game started afaik
guess that means the day is over in 5 hours?
guess that means the day is over in 5 hours?
Gonna see who's about to get lynch
foulcoon (3): Chris, Rolled, Two
Rolled (1): animask
rust45 (1): foulcoon
animask (1): Ph0X
I guess people wants foulcoon to be lynched (even most suspicion came from DxS). I have nothing much to say for him. Sad how DxS gave you a tough situation :<
I'm worried with Q for his lurkiness even thought he said "Sorry I was busy". He usualy ends up being scum (meta gaming dfnvkwen). I'm willing to lynch him for a public lynch (lynching people who aren't beneficial to townies) as I found he's playing on every single mafia games around here. It's hard for me to expect Q to fully participate if he continues this ;_;
animask? Probably town *sigh* WIFOM but I do agree he would be more careful if he had some kind of a role. He's recklessness shows on every single games as well :<.... meta gaming, but it shows his present style.
I'm willing to have an extension however, since there was no vote reset and people aren't really voting at the time being as well (they probably expected for a vote reset and not didn't vote nor unvote)
foulcoon (3): Chris, Rolled, Two
Rolled (1): animask
rust45 (1): foulcoon
animask (1): Ph0X
I guess people wants foulcoon to be lynched (even most suspicion came from DxS). I have nothing much to say for him. Sad how DxS gave you a tough situation :<
I'm worried with Q for his lurkiness even thought he said "Sorry I was busy". He usualy ends up being scum (meta gaming dfnvkwen). I'm willing to lynch him for a public lynch (lynching people who aren't beneficial to townies) as I found he's playing on every single mafia games around here. It's hard for me to expect Q to fully participate if he continues this ;_;
animask? Probably town *sigh* WIFOM but I do agree he would be more careful if he had some kind of a role. He's recklessness shows on every single games as well :<.... meta gaming, but it shows his present style.
I'm willing to have an extension however, since there was no vote reset and people aren't really voting at the time being as well (they probably expected for a vote reset and not didn't vote nor unvote)
Topic Starter
Votes were automatically reset. Or, they would have been if I wasn't extending deadline to tues. This extention applies to the other game if deadline would hit before tues.
In the future, although I will try to post the reset, assume the votes were reset once 24 hrs left hits.
In the future, although I will try to post the reset, assume the votes were reset once 24 hrs left hits.
Extended to Tuesday
Resets are automatic
Got it
Resets are automatic
Got it
Oh yay, an extension. It seems people have been inactive this weekend (perhaps due to a holiday?).
I'll look at more players ISO, and reread the thread, when I snag some time for myself.
I'll look at more players ISO, and reread the thread, when I snag some time for myself.
Topic Starter
Less than 24 hours remaining. Reminder that all votes were reset about 3 hours ago.
I've taken the whole DxS/Foulcoon situation into consideration, and I decided that I truly don't feel it to be scummy behavior to ask for a replacement. I will ISO myself just so everybody knows that I am aware this almost directly contradicts what I said earlier ITT:
I also feel that if foulcoon was given the chance to survive, he'd be more than happy to participate in the game regardless of his role. This game isn't fun without people participating.
That said, I'm going to cast my vote for Quaraezha
I can meta all day and show past games where Q's inactivity went hand in hand with his mafia role, but I truly feel that his style is just so sit back and let all of the action and finger-pointing happen around him, before eventually casting his vote with little reasoning behind it. This is not beneficial to town, even if he rolled pro-town.
I've reanalyzed, and have decided that perhaps DxS backed out simply because he had too much on his plate. Foulcoon came in gung-ho to participate, until realizing he was on track to get lynched, in which case he almost immediately lost interest and ceased to participate. (Not personally attacking foulcoon, the whole game was pretty dead for a day or two)Rolled wrote:
The lack of votes from everybody makes it really hard to tell what direction this game will be going, and how D1 will end. I'm not too familiar with DxS's meta but the fact that he asked for a replacement rather than just giving up and letting the votes fall how they may D1 makes me think that he had a power role in this game. Wifom wifom wifom.
I also feel that if foulcoon was given the chance to survive, he'd be more than happy to participate in the game regardless of his role. This game isn't fun without people participating.
That said, I'm going to cast my vote for Quaraezha
I can meta all day and show past games where Q's inactivity went hand in hand with his mafia role, but I truly feel that his style is just so sit back and let all of the action and finger-pointing happen around him, before eventually casting his vote with little reasoning behind it. This is not beneficial to town, even if he rolled pro-town.