Okay; now that I have a bit of time, let's get things rolling. (Pun totally intended.)
Rolled wrote:
Ph0x: There are two situations where you would hope Chris isn't a dumbass.
Situation 1: He is your scum partner. This is less likely than situation 2, as you wouldn't associate yourself with fellow scum d1.
Situation 2: You know he is town, and you are attempting to associate yourself with another townie.
There's only two roles you can possess that let you know Chris is town d1. Both are scum.
Congratulations. You skipped over two possible obvious and not-strictly-mafia causes of my actions.
I don't like players dragging the game down. I don't like players who just dick around, cause chaos, or play dumb when confronted. It really poisons game morale, and osu! mafia games don't exactly have the reputation of being highly motivated after the first day (for a number of reasons).
In a similar fashion, I don't like players throwing their hands up saying "I didn't get the role I wanted" or "I don't care about this game" and interrupting scumhunting, providing misleads, etc. That behaviour detriments the town's ability to effectively play the game, giving the mafia a leg up.
The comment, although emotional and directed, did relate to gameplay as you saw. It was more of a comment that I hope Chris doesn't play poorly in this game.
Rolled wrote:
I won't FoS or anything though because I'm pretty sure you died d1 in the last mafia. That would be mean to do it twice 
I would recommend not including that as a factor. (
That goes for you too, animask.) Then again, if you really want to use meta like that, go ahead.
Rolled commented on rust's "hypocrisy". I completely disagree that it was hypocritical of rust to make that statement against Rolled. Rolled implied that he was "done" scumhunting (as in, he had completed his hunt and found his prey) so early and quickly into the game (based on just
one comment by me). rust saw this as "hasty judgement" on Rolled's part. Contrast this to a RVS vote against Chris, with the comment "I don't know you, you seem pretty shady to me." Clearly, rust isn't making judgements against Chris (as it's obviously not an "I built a case against you; defend yourself" offense). Knowing Rolled, the "what?" could have been just pointing out something silly he noticed, but then again, based on his previous gameplay, I can guess the detail also may factor into Rolled's scumhunting.
Rolled's response to rust's defense is completely weak. "You gave reasoning for your vote, saying Chris was "shady."" Uh, no? I can see how you can put meaning behind rust's words (shady => gut feeling of scum), but that is just absurd. rust's vote against Chris was clearly RVS. Also, would you prefer a
hesitant vote at RVS (scum tell, IMO) or a "hasty" one (null tell in RVS)?
Also, a note to Rolled: "x is scummy" does not mean "x is a scum tell", mostly because x has context which is lost when you reword it as a scum tell. For example, rust's statement "I think you're making hasty judgements, which is pretty scummy to me." could have been better worded (for the sake of this explanation) as "I find your hasty judgements against Ph0X scummy." From this, it's clear that you cannot directly translate those words into "hasty judgements are a scum tell". Of course, I am not saying it isn't (although I personally feel it's a newb tell, not a scum tell); I am just using this example to explain my point. (This paragraph is strictly about mafia, not this game.)
Either way, the comment by DxS following Rolled's initial accusation struck me as odd:
DeathxShinigami wrote:
We got problems, rust doesn't know how to play this game.
Discuss.
It really, really irks me when people sheep like this (when I realize full well Rolled's "what", if taken as "you're being hypocritical", is complete bullshit). It makes me concerned that the shepherd will have no problems herding other players. It also makes me concerned that the sheep (DxS) is unable to be analytical. I would understand DxS's comment if it was his first game, but it is not, and he is making a derogatory comment against another player due to their (seeming) inexperience. So, to me, we lost a player (for the moment; not for the entire game, of course).
Rolled wrote:
Hi my name is phox. I accidentally scumtell'd a page ago but I'm just going to brush it off as sarcasm, and plant heavy sarcasm in every sequential post to make my OP's "sarcasm" seem more legitimate.
Ignoring the light-hearted(-ish?) sarcasm in Rolled's post here, I am trying to look for the source of the "scumtell" exactly. How is a statement which is WIFOMly sarcasm (note the ";P") and completely meta (in intent; I can obviously see the gameplay affects) a scum tell? Basically, Rolled is just scumpainting me here. Setting me up for a day 2 lynch, I presume. (Typical Rolled play style, right?)
Rolled wrote:
... I'm going to place my scum vote on people who have given me scum tells. Not really much else to go on.
Freudian slip? Rolled could be saying he's vanilla here.
Two wrote:
the "lets all vote for random people ^__^" sentiment is horrible if you actually are town, since it 100% guarantees town dies day 1
After, what, even a year, Two still holds this opinion. Break out of your comfort zone; you joined an osu! mafia game, so you participate in the osu! mafia metagame. RVS is standard practice in many mafia circles, and is effective (for
all sides). Of course, as I'm sure have been told several times before, RVS ends when real discussion starts. Real discussion has already started. Hey, look! A random vote (by rust against Chris) sparked discussion! RVS is a great kickstarter, but it's not a stand-alone solution. Just ... deal with it. =\ (After writing this, I saw your
comment on RVS which I must have missed earlier. Sorry if I came across as calling you a close-minded idiot. I still feel that way deep inside, but I didn't want to communicate it that harshly.)
Ph0X wrote:
Also, I will find it highly amusing if you manage a bandwagon against me.
I said this because of the shepherding and faulty logic (intentional or not) I noticed earlier (but could not thoroughly comment on, until now). Plus, it
would be really amusing if I had a bandwagon on me,
especially due to the faulty claims against me. No, I am not shivering under pressure, or whatever you (Rolled, Two, and everyone else) may have thought.
rust45 wrote:
Two could be this. I mean it is Experimental so basically anything goes.
Too much bookworming, dude. (You're showing your lack of experience, in short.) Think of the ways a double-voter would be played (in Two's shoes or even your own); I think you'd gain a lot from it.
Rolled wrote:
ph0x, I'd rather not have you lynched d1 because you are one of the stronger minds, and with the most experience, in this game. That's the logistic side of me. If I went with my gut, I would vote for you.
But truth is, you getting lynched d1 as pro-town is a huge win for mafia. It's not worthwhile to take that chance on a gut feeling.
Again with this meta. Vote for me if you want. If I was mafia, I could sabotage the game for you townies, so your line of thinking turns meaningless.
Rolled wrote:
But at the same time, I wish you'd be giving me more reason to think you're pro-town. You've yet to say anything in this thread constructive towards the game. All you've been doing is trying to evade pressure by shrugging everything off as sarcasm.
Sorry I haven't been active; I have been busy the two days. I already kinda explained the reasoning behind my attitude, and I am sure you can fill in the blanks.
Rolled wrote:
[FoS] animask: You gave no reason for voting for me other than that you thought my logic was wrong. You didn't mention anything I did specifically that you thought was scummy.
Yeah; your sarcasmdar is totally screwy.
Go re-read animask's voting post.Rolled wrote:
DxS: Making personal votes doesn't benefit town. Chris is in the game whether you like it or not, so place your vote somewhere else unless there's a reason you're voting Chris that we don't know. It's a good cop-out if you're mafia, though.
I can see why you're discouraging DxS for his reasoning (and I completely agree), but I don't see why you're trying to get the vote
off of Chris and "somewhere else". Why aren't you telling Chris to change
his vote? In addition, DxS's reasoning is a "good cop-out" if DxS is a town (or of any alignment, really) who has nothing to go on, too. (Again with the scumpainting, yeah?)
Two wrote:
ignoring all other factors, my ideal lynch as town is chris cause he isn't that active
Translation: if I was looking to lynch whoever is least active, I would lynch Chris.
Wha.
animask wrote:
Rolled, you seem to be pressuring players a bit by lightly accusing them of being mafia. Seems like a Cop sort of thing. Aux/Mafia
As I have stated, Rolled's general scumpainting and "extreme" scumhunting behaviour is part of his meta, in my opinion.
animask wrote:
rust45, information without much accusation. Seems kind of townie.
Can you elaborate upon this? What information has rust provided, in your opinion?
animask wrote:
Two, a bit annoying, but why vote for Ph0X? If Ph0X survives another day we might have a lead.
Don't tunnel me as superhelpfultownieperson so much...
animask wrote:
Chris, newbie or lurker. Which one could it be?
These two are not mutually exclusive. Also, "knowing" the latter wouldn't mean anything, because lurking is a behaviour, and not strictly a player or role trait or tell. (It is a tell circumstantially, but in 99% of scenarios that isn't important now.)
Rolled wrote:
Alright, at this point in time we are going nowhere and town has a 0% chance of getting a mafia lynch d1.
Instead of gathering your own biased opinions (myself included) that nobody is likely to agree on, I think the best play right now is to find the person you feel most likely to be pro-town and hop on the wagon.
Typo? Did you mean "most likely to be pro-mafia"?
Anyway, if you observe the last HNM, that plan didn't really work too tell day 1. Plus, I think we have much more information in this game than we did in that game; I brought up that method because there was basically no helpful discussion and we were in a time crunch.
Rolled wrote:
That said, the people currently voting are:
Chris (DxS)
DxS (Chris)
Two (Ph0x)
Rolled (rust)
animask (Rolled)
There's a 5 way tie for 1 vote, 4 are not voting.
Take away the random and not-serious votes and you have Two voting against me, Rolled voting against rust, and (I guess; reasoning is super-weak even if I believed Chris; more OMGUS than anything) Chris voting against DxS.
Quaraezha wrote:
Anyway, not sure who to vote yet.
Then contribute and stop being such a faggot? Mafia is a game where you need to be involved and participate. Clues don't just come to you; you have to go out and seek them. One way to do this is to re-read posts. Another is to look at social and voting graphs. Just do
something besides waiting for a bandwagon. I have a feeling you're scum at this point, if not a harmful townie.
Two wrote:
It's one thing to be like "I was rolefishing", but to do a 180 with halfassed logic isn't cutting it for me. Especially right after you were voted for.
unvote, vote: deathxshinigami
What, so admitting you (DxS) were wrong and your logic was flawed is scum behaviour now?
DeathxShinigami wrote:
Have a feeling it'll just be Rolled/Two/Chris vs. everyone else
Well, if you want to think that way, yes. It would definitely be that way if this was a WWG. But this is mafia, which is a very different game, so I don't think such harm like you suggest will happen.
bmin11 wrote:
Two wrote:
if I were mafia, I would night kill rust45
Why not Rolled or Ph0X? Just wondering why since rust45 isn't holding much attention by the others 
I think Two just hates everyone who disrupts the SNR negatively.
Two wrote:
DeathxShinigami wrote:
Have a feeling it'll just be Rolled/Two/Chris vs. everyone else
you wish
do you really think people are dumb enough to not notice you trying to paint us as a team? you've done it twice now, with what reason I wonder?
Yeah, well, you guys naturally gravitate toward each other. You and Rolled have similar play styles. And, of course, there's meta history. Do you really think people are dumb enough (given the meta information) not to make (at some point) the association DxS made?
Rolled wrote:
edit: To elaborate, stop defending people you have no reason to defend. People should be fully capable of defending themselves. The fact that everybody is defending people other than themselves is not a pro-town trait.
In my experience, that's not true.
(Also, no editing.)
Rolled wrote:
ph0x you better be fucking posting
lololol. I am. ;P
animask wrote:
The reason I think you're sus(s) is because you are accusing almost everyone of being mafia.
That is actually a scum tell. You seem pressured for some reason and that is why I voted for you.
Good point! (Bravo!) I didn't see that myself; I was looking at it more from the "hopeless townie" angle.
Two wrote:
well, it's good to know that animask and ph0x are mafia day 1
I wonder if this post disproves your stupidly retarded theory. I didn't expect myself to post a wall of over 1500 words, but shit happens. I love mafia. ;P
