I am going to focus on Duplicity Shade because I think it's the greatest offender in all of this. As of writing the difference between top no mod and top HT plays on the map is about 40 pp. To give another perspective, a 98% no mod is equivalent to 99.8% HT in terms of pp. This feels very wrong and I believe it should not happen.

An obvious solution would be to fix the PP system. As a PP dev myself, I have not looked at the problem in detail, but I guarantee you it will involve a lot of code and weeks of development. Definitely too much effort to spend on this silly problem and too long of a wait. Besides there is a much easier fix that can resolve this faster. Just modify the ranking criteria!

This is why I propose the following wording under overall rules:

Max PP for HT mod must not be worth more than 75% the max PP of no mod

I don't see why this is a necessity. Enforcing a map's PP gain is a huge gatekeep for mapping community.

I think I know where does that 75% number come from. It is from the fact where HT actually the same as 75% rate, right? Unfortunately this is *not* the case. There are multiple factors including pattern complexity that complicates the star rating to determine the SR.

Enforcing it via rules is just a blunder move, since players should've rewarded for their play for ranked maps, regardless if it's HT, normal speed, or DT. I just say it would be great if the mania SR is tweaked a bit for HT maps.

By the way, I checked the map and run it through rate changer. The rate-changed map with no mods and the original map with HT has roughly local SR value (12.08 vs 12.1).

Is there a reason why putting on the HT mod just doesn't equal a pp penalty? If HT is put on, make the map be worth like 50-75% of the intended pp before the calc. It greatly penalizes all HT plays including fair ones, but the point is, that is how it should be. HT should be used as a tool for improvement rather than a tool for gaining ranks easy.

Max PP for HT mod must not be worth more than 75% the max PP of no mod

Wouldn't such rules be quite tricky for less aggressive maps? owo

Whilst I can understand your frustration with the current state of the PP system, it is important to note that any changes made to it will likely have far-reaching consequences and could potentially cause unintended issues that could harm the integrity of the ranking system.

One of the main potential issues with your proposed wording under the overall rules is that it may not accurately reflect the difficulty of HT mod compared to no mod. This is because some maps may be significantly easier to play with HT mod, whilst others may not be affected as much. This could result in players who excel at playing maps that are easier with HT mod being unfairly penalised in the ranking system.

On the other hand, implementing this change could have a positive impact by reducing the number of "farm maps" being played. These maps are often designed to be easy to play with HT mod, and are played solely for the purpose of farming PP. By reducing the amount of PP gained through HT mod, players who rely solely on farming these types of maps may find their strategies to be less effective, thereby increasing the diversity of maps being played and the skill level of players in the community.

However, it is also important to consider the potential impact of such a change on the community. Farmers, who rely on playing maps with HT mod, may find themselves in shambles if their strategy becomes less effective. This could lead to frustration and dissatisfaction among certain members of the community.

Additionally, implementing this change may require a significant amount of time and resources to execute, as the osu!mania team would need to carefully consider the potential impact of such a change on the community. This could delay the implementation of other, potentially more pressing changes, and could ultimately have a negative impact on the community.

In summary, whilst your proposed change to the ranking criteria is an interesting suggestion, it is important to consider the potential issues that may arise as a result of implementing it. Any changes made to the PP system should be carefully considered and should not be made lightly. Thank you for your message, and I wish you the best of luck in your endeavours.chatgpt btw, nice bait

we should consider why maps like duplicity shade can be farm so extremely. is HT's wrong? if SR system can be work better, let this 12.04* map with HT is not 11.41*, but is 9~10*, is this map still superfarm?

if something wrong happen, better to resolve the roots of PP, SR system. not where the problem occurs in HT mode. cut HT mode's PP is a not good resolution to resolve some maps' virtually high SR.

Ballistic wrote:

Is there a reason why putting on the HT mod just doesn't equal a pp penalty? If HT is put on, make the map be worth like 50-75% of the intended pp before the calc. It greatly penalizes all HT plays including fair ones, but the point is, that is how it should be. HT should be used as a tool for improvement rather than a tool for gaining ranks easy.

Because difficulty does not scale down directly with rate.

For example, LN Stellium HT is still harder than LN Azimuth, while Regular Stellium HT is only about Regular 10th.

I think the main focus should be to fix the SR calculations instead of making rules about no more ht farming. Fixing pp algorithms would also not work because making fixes about one specific map would break everything else. Maybe adjusting the pp algorithms so extremely spikey maps would not give that much pp would help.

It’s mainly an issue with how SR is calculated more than anything I think. The LN SR fix could be way improved, because there are a ton of different patterns that have varying levels of difficulty compared to their rice counterparts.

While i understand the current PP system situation, but harshly giving such a limitation on the potential pool of map that BN can nominate (especially for the growth and push of more difficult chart) is extremely bad that i really don't think we should even try to consider this approach because of a ton of potential issue arise from this.

Other than the potential maps itself, the mapper will potentially also be forced to remap a lot of component from their map which is probably even fine patterning/concept wise, and i don't think this is what we want to enforce to the mapper/BN side. Please remember that PP calculation itself is temporary (the number of PP in the player's profile can always change anytime in the future), but the ranked map is forever stay in the ranked section.

Even though I have never touched mania before, I think this is a great idea. Fixing the PP system is too hard. I hate doing hard things, even if I'm not the one doing them. This proposal solves every single problem plaguing the community and doesn't create any down the line (I have a crystal ball and I saw the future where this change was implemented) Abraker should tell his haters that his proposed change to the ranking criteria has the full support of hamood enjoyer, expert mania player.

I thought the idea and context itself is ridiculous enough more people would figure it out. Fixing problems with PP by restricting mapping is an awful way to fix the problem. For a PP dev to be proposing such a workaround instead of looking into fixing this is the most insane part in the proposal.

Anyway, I hope ya'll had a great April Fools!