Right now, this Rule exists in the Technical Metadata section for the RC:



This is great and I totally support it. However, there are a few cases where I don't believe it's necessary, such as when said user(s) is/are already credited in another metadata field - such as the Artist field.

This map required a disqualification, in part to add the username "10nya" to tags as the hitsounder of the beatmap, despite already being searchable via this username using the Artist field (Xinely & 10nya).

Whilst the beatmap did require disqualification to add genre tags to in-game search anyway, I think the requirement to add the hitsounder's username to tags is unnecessary, given context that the beatmap can be found by searching for said username already (since it's in the Artist field). I propose to add a sentence (in italics here) to this rule as follows that would clarify these cases:



This would negate the need for duplicate username tags in cases such as this where the contributing user is already searchable and properly credited.

100% support this

Agree, it's supposed to be put in tags so it can be searched for so if it's already searchable it's kinda pointless

agree

Will wait for a bit but I agree considering this only clarifies stuff, shouldn’t be a big deal!

I think the word negate is kinda bad but I can’t really think of a better way other than saying like “this doesn’t apply if...”

I have to disagree with this. Adding the usernames to the tags increases searchability.
Here is some proof:
Before adding the artist to the tags:
trial 1
trial 2
After adding the artist to the tags:
trial 1
trial 2

I think this is proof enough. The search results favor the username/artist being in the tags.

Also, if this were to pass, I think the wording could be improved. You include "This can be negated if the username(s) is/are already present in another metadata field, such as the Artist field." directly after "Usernames containing single characters separated by whitespaces must have the whitespaces replaced with underscores." making it seem like the whitespace rule can be negated, not the entire rule.

Tbh this is a very rare edge case, and what happens if you don't include the username in the tags? Players might not be able to tell that that user contributed to the mapset. Just because the username is in the artist/title/source field, doesn't mean I'd assume they contributed to the mapset itself.

I think the argument of "its supposed to be put in the tags so it can be searched" isn't valid. I believe the usernames of contributors are added to the tags so they are properly credited (as the rule says).
Since crediting contributors in the beatmap description isn't required, there'd be no way to tell that a user whose username is in the title/artist field contributed to the mapset at all if adding them to the tags isn't required.

Credit has to be given somewhere, whether its in the tags or description.

What if someone changes their username to match the artist/title of the map they are contributing to? They don't have to be credited anymore? They aren't the artist/didn't contribute to the song itself.

JBHyperion wrote:

I think the requirement to add the hitsounder's username to tags is unnecessary

I think you mean "the artist's username" since it otherwise wouldn't make any sense.

Other than that I agree with the proposal.

tatatat wrote:

Credit has to be given somewhere, whether its in the tags or description.

Credits are already given since the username is already in the artist field. Even when it does make searchability on the site better I don't think it's a good enough reason to have duplicated usernames in multiple metadata fields.

In my opinion the tags are meant to make it possible to find the map when searching for a certain username, not to have the mapset which contain the username in multiple metadata field at the top.

Greaper wrote:

JBHyperion wrote:

I think the requirement to add the hitsounder's username to tags is unnecessary

I think you mean "the artist's username" since it otherwise wouldn't make any sense.

Other than that I agree with the proposal.

tatatat wrote:

Credit has to be given somewhere, whether its in the tags or description.

Credits are already given since the username is already in the artist field. Even when it does make searchability on the site better I don't think it's a good enough reason to have duplicated usernames in multiple metadata fields.

In my opinion the tags are meant to make it possible to find the map when searching for a certain username, not to have the mapset which contain the username in multiple metadata field at the top.

"What if someone changes their username to match the artist/title of the map they are contributing to? They don't have to be credited anymore? They aren't the artist/didn't contribute to the song itself."

People have and will change their username to match a particular song or artist, such as Blue Dragon and Hanasaka Yui. Should these users be exempt from being credited?

They're not exempt from being credited, they're just not in tags, which I feel is fine. The name can easily be searched for to find the map anyway, and the description will credit them in most cases anyway, and if it doesn't, that's up to the user not in the tags to bring up.

Also if you think about it, this exception is already made in a certain case, specifically, when the username is in the mapper field. Mappers don't have to add their own name to tags if they do hitsounding, because that would be silly, so why should other fields be different?

MBomb wrote:

They're not exempt from being credited, they're just not in tags, which I feel is fine. The name can easily be searched for to find the map anyway, and the description will credit them in most cases anyway, and if it doesn't, that's up to the user not in the tags to bring up.

"and the description will credit them in most cases anyway, and if it doesn't, that's up to the user not in the tags to bring up."
I think then that they should be required to credit them in the description if not in the tags.

Also what if the artist/title just happens to include a username by pure coincidence? Like "Britney Spears - Radar" for radar
or
"Xiao Pan Pan & Xiao Feng Feng - Xue Mao Jiao" for Mao
or
"UNISON SQUARE GARDEN - Haru ga Kite Bokura" for Kite

are they no longer required to be added to the tags because their username HAPPENS to be in the artist/title? Thats just silly. There would be no indication that they contributed to the mapset.

It's not silly at all. The point of tags is so that something can be searched for and found by searching the user's name. The map is searchable by the name due it's appearance in all of those cases, so the tag is doing an unnecessary purpose.

Order of search results is irrelevant, if that's all that changes, it's pointless.

source for tatatat's first claim (ok this link goes to the wrong line now but it was about search priority for tags)
this change would make search results less useful

the semantic argument of "does this belong in tags if it's already part of the artist?" is valid but probably pointless considering tags don't really have any meaning beyond helping search. if you want mapset contributors (beyond the host) to be properly credited for their work, you should support some kind of change to show their names in a more appropriate place with actual links and w/e

regarding tatat's thing, you are still allowed to put mappers in the tags if they are in the title. right now you're required to put it in regardless, which is the worse option.

no issues with this, go ahead.

I agree 100%, it would be redundant to have the same searchable terms.

difficulty name counts as a metadata field, so that would need to be excluded from any wording

^ this is true

@Greaper
The case in point related to "adding the hitsounder's username", so that's why I worded it that way. That being said, they're the same name, so it doesn't really matter either way.


@tatatat
By that logic we should add all artist, difficulty name, source, etc. metadata to the tags as well, since that makes them more visible - essentially you want to encourage duplication of even more stuff, which I see as a step backwards. I'm trying to make things more clear, not less.

If you want to find out who contributed what to the mapset, you check the description (or if you're really wizard, you make a custom BG / storyboard / buy an advertising slot on TV / etc.) Of course 10nya contributed to the mapset in the example I gave because she literally sang part of the song. The mapset as it is now would not exist in its current format if her vocal contribution was not there!

If you change your username you're supposed to include previous usernames in the tags, so the user will still be credited.


@pishifat
I assume you're requiring that "<username>" should still be added to tags when a difficulty name is <username's> <difficulty>? Didn't really consider that at the outset but I guess if you search "<username> you will find the whole mapset (rather than just the specific difficulty in question), which can aid players in visually determining what other difficulties are in a mapset by whoever they are interested in... So I can see the logic behind this.

Artist metadata field is the same in all difficulties of a mapset by definition though, so this issue is avoided.

How about:


Just to make something clear, I'm not trying to FORCE specific metadata terms to appear ONCE and ONLY ONCE. I'm asking if we can remove the requirement that things MUST be duplicated. I don't really care if someone wants to add their own name to tags 27 times since it has no benefit. But I don't see the point in being forced to add something twice for the same zero-benefit result.

https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/posts/7359496 not zero-benefit

If someone contributes to a map with more than just providing the song, it makes sense to add them to tags.
I assume the supporters of this proposal have the opinion that tags are basically "everything that doesn't have a dedicated field". I think the interpretation "keywords for search and crediting all contributors on the osu! side of things" is not farfetched either - why else would you add guest mapper names there when they're already free to include their full username in their GD?
It's a different kind of contribution than a song and as such a double mention seems fair to me.

I think this may or may not do tags justice but generally speaking it could be considered that in the future the osu! api might offer filtering options like found on osusearch that allow the player to search by each field individually. So if I wanted to find out which maps JBHyperion contributed to, I could search the mapper field and the tags with an "or" connection for JBHyperion and would find all maps excluding the ones he only did music for. Seems like an at least remotely useful use-case for me.

clayton wrote:

the semantic argument of "does this belong in tags if it's already part of the artist?" is valid but probably pointless considering tags don't really have any meaning beyond helping search. if you want mapset contributors (beyond the host) to be properly credited for their work, you should support some kind of change to show their names in a more appropriate place with actual links and w/e

i dont think boldpart is an ok solution since it's out of our control. better to work within the ranking criteria for now

JBHyperion wrote:

Guest mappers, storyboarders, skinners and hitsounders must be added to the tags of a beatmapset. This is to give credit where credit is due and help others identify the main contributors of any given beatmapset. This can be negated if the username(s) is/are already present in another metadata field, with the exception of the Difficulty Name field. Usernames containing single characters separated by whitespaces must have the whitespaces replaced with underscores.

lots of words but it's as concise as i can see it possibly being, so uhhhh i'd go with it? lowering search results when mapper is in artist/title is already countered by what tatata mentioned earlier about coincidental overlaps in artist/title and mappername, plus this change is about giving mappers the option, so if they want better search rresults for doubleoverlap, they can do it

I didn't say that as an alternative, I think this proposal is not a very good idea regardless for reasons stated already

I feel like this'd be a tad nicer to read (changed part in italics)

JBHyperion wrote:

Guest mappers, storyboarders, skinners and hitsounders must be added to the tags of a beatmapset. This is to give credit where credit is due and help others identify the main contributors of any given beatmapset. This can be negated for usernames that are already present in another metadata field, with the exception of the Difficulty Name field. Usernames containing single characters separated by whitespaces must have the whitespaces replaced with underscores.

for ingame search this would be fine to add, but after checking out osu-web code, i think itd be better to leave username in tags for these kinds of situations

with only a partial search match for 10nya in artist and no mention in tags, the map doesnt appear in the same place as maps that 10nya has made gds/hitsounds for, while someone searching would expect it to appear higher. some posts above this already explained what im saying but idk how clear they were so im restating

plus this is the rarest of rare exceptions so like i reeeeeeally dont think its gonna cause much harm, sorry