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[Proposal - osu!taiko] Remove "Outer Oni" from difficulty naming for Expert+

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Topic Starter
Cynplytholowazy
I'm not aware of when it is incorporated into the difficulty naming wiki page, but since it is here I'm proposing to remove Outer Oni from difficulty naming for Expert+.



Going deep into the meaning for the current difficulty names for taiko, they originates from the game Taiko no Tatsujin, which includes Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashii and Oni. There is also a hidden difficulty named Ura Oni, which is hidden under Oni difficulty. Japanese: 裏鬼 this has meaning of 1. hidden difficulty that needs to be explored under Oni; 2. A more condensed form under the original oni i.e. more condensed form of difficulty. Inner Oni is thus derived from Ura Oni from Japanese romanisation into English. Hell Oni has similar meaning into "Oni coming from hell" i.e. even harsher difficulty.

While the difficulty name "Outer Oni" doesn't really make sense. If it mean the opposite of Inner in this case, or 表鬼 in Japanese, "Surface of Oni" means a even lighter representation of Oni i.e. should be easier, (in-between Muzukashii and Oni)?
It doesn't really make sense to have Outer Oni being harder than Inner Oni.

I understand osu! taiko isn't in any way taiko no tatsujin, So the above elaborated why Inner Oni and Hell Oni can correlate in meaning, while Outer Oni does not.

Therefore, proposed change is to remove "Outer Oni" from the difficulty naming page.
clayton
it really doesn't make sense, I think this was approved just because it's a common diff name already

"Hell Oni" is kinda redundant/meaningless too
Noffy
I don't think it makes sense to have it in the "Default" section but it has been in use for a long period of time across many mappers and mapsets. I think it should be moved to the "widely accepted alternatives" section instead rather than removing it from the article entirely, as it's not from a particular game but is still commonly used/accepted.
clayton
what would the "default" diff name for black icon be then
Noffy
it doesn't need to be specified, just as other modes do not. before it's asked, no, i don't think other modes need difficulty names added for black icons. they usually just use the same difficulty naming as purple difficulties, or custom names.
Raiden
I have no idea of when "Outer Oni" was added in the difficulty naming schemes, despite being used as a top diff name I have to agree with Cynply, the whole purpose is that the "deeper" within you go, the harder the diff is, so "Outer" doesn't really imply harder in the sense of adding it to our already standarized "Oni" system, it was simply a gimmick diff name originally used by one mapper which for some reason resonated with other mappers who started using it too.

Hell Oni was likely first seen in the times where a mapper decided to create an in-between difficulty between the top diff (custom name) and the Inner Oni, given that the custom diff name could only be applied to the top diff, and it stayed that way because it made at least a little sense and was also an alternative name including "Oni" for those who didn't want to bother with custom diff names, but had already an Inner Oni which was easier.

So I don't really see why "Outer Oni" is in the difficulty naming guidelines given that it's, after all, a custom diff name
Topic Starter
Cynplytholowazy
Was added by jakads via github osu-wiki in November 19 without any prior discussion with taiko community https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/2743 ?
DeletedUser_6637817
Well, in lieu of "Hell Oni" being way more widely used than "Outer Oni" (theres maybe 4 outer onis ranked compared to the gazillion ranked hell onis), id say that Outer Oni seems a bit superfluous because its not too established as a diffname, but is rather a thing by eiri-.

Id say it should be removed, Hell Oni is more descriptive of the difficulty level and better-established.
clayton
per https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/posts/7309536 I'm going to remove this. the article overall isn't supposed to be an RC guideline, so it'll be merged in with https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Difficulties

jakads wasn't wrong to add this, it's just in the wrong place. I'll edit this post when I open a PR but it won't change any RC rules/guidelines
pishifat
this was fixed
clayton
this wasnt fixed but not rc anyway The
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