2017-08-26 00:32 duski: hi
can you take a look at my map
2017-08-26 00:32 duski: it reached +12 not long ago
2017-08-26 00:33 duski: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1306091 Camellia - Towards The Horizon]
2017-08-26 00:34 Skylish: are you asking for a testplay or something else?
2017-08-26 00:34 duski: yes
2017-08-26 00:34 duski: ":D"
2017-08-26 00:34 duski: well im kinda looking to get that shit ranked
2017-08-26 00:34 duski: and i was trying to find any online bn's
2017-08-26 00:35 duski: to see if has any issues left
2017-08-26 00:35 duski: ive discussed the map with arrival and surono before
2017-08-26 00:35 duski: surono asked to ask others first and arrival hasnt replied to me yet
2017-08-26 00:35 Skylish: I will just point out some obvious flaws, but I won't do a full mod here as stated in my BN modding queue
2017-08-26 00:35 Skylish: understand?
2017-08-26 00:35 Skylish: let's start with Kantan :>
2017-08-26 00:36 duski: sure thing
2017-08-26 00:36 Skylish: ACTION is playing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1314575 Camellia - Towards The Horizon [Kantan]] <Taiko>
2017-08-26 00:38 duski: choke
2017-08-26 00:38 Skylish: The concrete n n n n n pattern could be stayed in Kiai
2017-08-26 00:38 Skylish: in Kantan
2017-08-26 00:39 Skylish: 01:24:734 (7,8,9,10) -
2017-08-26 00:39 Skylish: I expect a 1/1 pattern here
2017-08-26 00:40 Skylish: 01:21:626 - / 01:34:061 - Finisher possible in Kantan, consider add them there
2017-08-26 00:41 duski: done'd
2017-08-26 00:41 Skylish: 01:51:936 (9,10,11,12) - / 01:55:822 (15,16,17,18,19) - I feel that they are not as natural simple as the section of 00:28:776 -
2017-08-26 00:42 Skylish: the last ending part is a bit too dense, perhaps it's style, but for Kantan level players, they may not expect to see such relatively complicated patterns in the final few seconds
2017-08-26 00:43 Skylish: 01:51:936 - it is supposed to be n n n pattern in 3/2 rhythm actually, but you map it as 4* 1/1, I feel a bit weird there
2017-08-26 00:43 Skylish: 3/2 pattern is acceptable in Kantan once it is not abused
2017-08-26 00:44 Skylish: now, just keep a general idea, you may need more opinion in detail from other modders
2017-08-26 00:44 Skylish: since you do not really have many mods for this mapset, isn't it
?
2017-08-26 00:44 Skylish: let's move on to Futsuu
2017-08-26 00:44 Skylish: you ready?
2017-08-26 00:45 Skylish: ACTION is playing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1306381 Camellia - Towards The Horizon [Futsuu]] <Taiko>
2017-08-26 00:45 duski: im on the phone right now
2017-08-26 00:45 Skylish: oops sorry
2017-08-26 00:45 Skylish: let me know when you have finished your phone call
2017-08-26 00:50 duski: ok my body is ready
2017-08-26 00:50 duski: didnt make the rest of the changes though
2017-08-26 00:50 Skylish: lol are you still on the phone?
2017-08-26 00:50 duski: and no it doesnt have too many mods yet
2017-08-26 00:50 duski: no
2017-08-26 00:53 Skylish: Futsuu with a bit free-style
2017-08-26 00:53 Skylish: pretty fair
2017-08-26 00:53 duski: i noticed like three things while watching lmao
2017-08-26 00:53 duski: like three things ill want to change
2017-08-26 00:53 Skylish: oh it's good that you picked your own problems
2017-08-26 00:53 Skylish: nice
2017-08-26 00:54 Skylish: I dont have much to say for Futsuu
2017-08-26 00:56 Skylish: inconsistent pattern usages in Muzukashii
2017-08-26 00:56 Skylish: It's Ayyri's style as far as I know
2017-08-26 00:56 Skylish: which I am not really fond of, sorry to say so
2017-08-26 00:56 duski: >females being inconsistent
2017-08-26 00:56 duski: 4Head
2017-08-26 00:56 Skylish: narh LOL
2017-08-26 00:59 Skylish: the flow is not smooth in Oni
2017-08-26 00:59 Skylish: density issue is spotted
2017-08-26 00:59 Skylish: some unnatural drop down of density in Kiai is a very obvious flaw imo
2017-08-26 00:59 duski: any suggestions to fix that
2017-08-26 00:59 Skylish: talk about some inconsistent parts first: 00:19:838 (15,16,17,18,19) -
2017-08-26 01:00 Skylish: compare them ^ with 00:16:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
2017-08-26 01:00 Skylish: and you will know what I mean
2017-08-26 01:00 Skylish: 00:25:667 (43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59) - this stream is too long for Oni when you have Inner Oni as the top diff.
2017-08-26 01:00 Skylish: please split it apart into 3 parts at least, cleaner patterns as well
2017-08-26 01:01 Skylish: 00:40:239 (69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79) - same as this one, not suitable in Oni
2017-08-26 01:01 Skylish: In Kiai, the density drops happen in every 3/4 patterns 00:41:600 (82,83,84) -
2017-08-26 01:03 Skylish: n nn n would be better in terms of density spread
2017-08-26 01:04 Skylish: 00:45:874 (102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111) - anti-flow rhythm and pattern
2017-08-26 01:04 Skylish: 00:45:874 (102) - perhaps this would be better by matching the base drums with melody flow
https://puu.sh/xjkj7/d84b5b03fc.png2017-08-26 01:04 Skylish: just an example
2017-08-26 01:07 duski: SeemsGood
2017-08-26 01:07 duski: did all these changes
2017-08-26 01:07 Skylish: 01:27:649 - consider remove this note to create a break
2017-08-26 01:07 Skylish: *gap
2017-08-26 01:07 duski: sry that im not replying meanwhile, im just reading through and trying out the changes as you type them
2017-08-26 01:07 Skylish: yeah take your time
2017-08-26 01:08 Skylish: a certain gap is needed after a bunch of notes hit
2017-08-26 01:08 Skylish: and a gap can separate sections
2017-08-26 01:08 Skylish: 01:27:843 - is a new start, right?
2017-08-26 01:08 Skylish: 01:27:649 - if you put notes here to link it up, the new section would be blurred
2017-08-26 01:08 duski: ye i understand
2017-08-26 01:09 Skylish: It is for improving structure in general
2017-08-26 01:09 Skylish: Finishers for the starts as well
2017-08-26 01:09 Skylish: 01:27:843 - / 01:21:626 (1) -
2017-08-26 01:09 Skylish: 01:37:558 (98,99,100) - another similar 3/4 patterns, try to think how you can enrich them in Oni
2017-08-26 01:10 Skylish: 01:38:918 - missing obvious notes of triplet since you are following the melody pretty concretely overall speaking in Kiai
2017-08-26 01:11 duski: i literally just added a note there before you said that last thing
2017-08-26 01:11 duski: lmao
2017-08-26 01:11 Skylish: lol okay
2017-08-26 01:11 Skylish: 01:46:885 -
2017-08-26 01:11 Skylish: glitch starts right here instead of 01:47:079 -
2017-08-26 01:12 Skylish: meanwhile imo isolating the strong drum kick ( 01:47:273 - ) is a good idea
2017-08-26 01:12 Skylish: i.e. 01:46:885 - ddd k
2017-08-26 01:12 Skylish: ** another Finisher 01:46:496 - , just mark it down in case you cannot spot it out
2017-08-26 01:12 duski: d ddk isnt bad either
2017-08-26 01:13 duski: at least to my ear
2017-08-26 01:13 Skylish: your style, you can keep yours of cours
2017-08-26 01:13 Skylish: *course
2017-08-26 01:13 Skylish: However, unrankable issue right here: 01:57:668 (60,61) -
2017-08-26 01:13 Skylish: 1/4 Finishers must not be used
2017-08-26 01:13 duski: ye that is my mistake
2017-08-26 01:13 duski: thats been changed
2017-08-26 01:13 duski: but ive forgot to change it on oni
2017-08-26 01:14 duski: in inner oni it isnt like that anymore
2017-08-26 01:14 Skylish: alright, fix other similar parts of what I have mentioned above
2017-08-26 01:14 Skylish: move to inner oni now
2017-08-26 01:14 duski: the best and worst part of this conversation lmao
2017-08-26 01:16 Skylish: unrankable Inner Oni
2017-08-26 01:17 duski: what
2017-08-26 01:17 Skylish: Camellia has a very significant style:
2017-08-26 01:17 Skylish: The music is scattered
2017-08-26 01:17 Skylish: i.e. They are porous
2017-08-26 01:18 Skylish: umm let's say
2017-08-26 01:18 Skylish: You link up the melody with streams
2017-08-26 01:18 Skylish: but the music itself is actually divided into parts
2017-08-26 01:19 Skylish: 00:41:405 (96,97,98,99,100,101,102) - / 00:42:960 (107,108,109,110,111,112,113) -
2017-08-26 01:19 Skylish: they can be definitely be splitted
2017-08-26 01:20 duski: i just need to know at a concrete level what makes this unrankable
2017-08-26 01:20 duski: its a pretty big thing to say
2017-08-26 01:20 duski: especially when ive had other BNs try this out
2017-08-26 01:20 duski: and no one has made a claim of that caliber
2017-08-26 01:20 Skylish: there are more for you to know, just wait for a moment
2017-08-26 01:20 Skylish: I am generalizing the idea
2017-08-26 01:21 Skylish: 01:05:013 - any 1/8 usage risk DQ
2017-08-26 01:22 Skylish: even the music can support it
2017-08-26 01:22 Skylish: 01:01:515 - / 01:05:013 - they are still okay since they are just shor triplets
2017-08-26 01:23 Skylish: however: 01:46:885 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - is definitely not accepted
2017-08-26 01:23 duski: but why
2017-08-26 01:23 duski: ppl cant read? LUL
2017-08-26 01:23 Skylish: umm it's about the playability
2017-08-26 01:24 Skylish: sudden piled up density is harsh
2017-08-26 01:24 Skylish: let's say this one: 01:46:885 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
2017-08-26 01:24 duski: yes it isnt very easy to play and/or read
2017-08-26 01:24 Skylish: they fit the music yes
2017-08-26 01:24 duski: ive acknowledged that
2017-08-26 01:24 Skylish: but, they show that your mapping channel is shifting
2017-08-26 01:25 Skylish: You are not supposed to match EVERY SINGLE THING in Taiko since it is barely impossible esp.ly in a glitch map
2017-08-26 01:25 Skylish: *glitch music
2017-08-26 01:26 duski: does it magically turn okay if i change that 1/8 to 1/6
2017-08-26 01:26 Skylish: still no
2017-08-26 01:26 Skylish: It feels so uncomfortable in game-play
2017-08-26 01:27 Skylish: in terms of rhymic flow
2017-08-26 01:27 duski: im afraid the fate of this ending is going to be settled later
2017-08-26 01:27 duski: and not during this conversation
2017-08-26 01:27 Skylish: sure it is a lter thing
2017-08-26 01:27 Skylish: (later
2017-08-26 01:27 duski: ive had not one but two BNs not mention anything
2017-08-26 01:27 duski: about like unrankability
2017-08-26 01:28 duski: like sure, it is not the easiest thing to read and play
2017-08-26 01:28 duski: but no one ever said its unrankable
2017-08-26 01:28 Skylish: *not mention anything?
2017-08-26 01:28 Skylish: I did mention =w=
2017-08-26 01:28 duski: two other BNs*
2017-08-26 01:28 duski: xddd
2017-08-26 01:28 duski: like youre the first to say its unrankable
2017-08-26 01:28 duski: thats what im getting at
2017-08-26 01:28 Skylish: oh okay
2017-08-26 01:29 Skylish: other BNs may accept it
2017-08-26 01:29 Skylish: but that'd be a very controversial issue in the modding process
2017-08-26 01:29 Skylish: to play safe, sacrifise something to construct a better structure is a compromisation
2017-08-26 01:30 duski: i'd like to hold on to my dear 1/8s
2017-08-26 01:30 Skylish: I would say a 'NO' for the 1/8 usage in the last part
2017-08-26 01:30 duski: but if it really proves to be the only thing holding it back from ranking
2017-08-26 01:30 Skylish: not really the only one
2017-08-26 01:30 duski: then ill have to change that
2017-08-26 01:30 Skylish: but also the flow in other parts of Inner Oni
2017-08-26 01:30 duski: my only objective in the end is to have this ranked
2017-08-26 01:30 duski: its like a thing i want to do
2017-08-26 01:30 Skylish: is it your first map?
2017-08-26 01:31 Skylish: pending 2, graveyard 4, nope
2017-08-26 01:31 duski: :^)
2017-08-26 01:31 duski: maybe
2017-08-26 01:31 duski: yes but this is the first one
2017-08-26 01:31 duski: i had one deleted map
2017-08-26 01:31 Skylish: mapping concept could be polished a lot
2017-08-26 01:31 duski: it was basically to just even learn how the editor works
2017-08-26 01:31 duski: but this is the first serious thing
2017-08-26 01:31 Skylish: The structure in Inner Oni is loose
2017-08-26 01:32 Skylish: you put wrong foci on each musical element sometime
2017-08-26 01:32 Skylish: BNs can notify these errors easily
2017-08-26 01:33 Skylish: That's all from me now
2017-08-26 01:34 duski: maybe i didnt pick the easiest song to map
2017-08-26 01:34 duski: lmao
2017-08-26 01:35 Skylish: It's not the easiest genre
2017-08-26 01:35 Skylish: it requires a more well developed mapping sense actually