I fully alternated since day 1, and I don't really have a preference of which finger for which note. Not sure why you'd think it's an issue though if it is not affecting anything.
It does cause issues, I finger-lock on the ends of streams and stacks, cant transition between patterns quickly, and recover quickly.Wishes wrote:
I fully alternated since day 1, and I don't really have a preference of which finger for which note. Not sure why you'd think it's an issue though if it is not affecting anything.
I think it still counts as "singletapping" when you alternate triples, like XZX XZX XZX. I use the word "semi-alternating" for players who alternate on normal quarterbeat jumps, but who don't alternate everything. So they could for example do XZX XZX on consecutive triples. Doing XZ XZ XZ XZ for consecutive doubles is consistent with both full-alternating and semi-alternating, but full-alternators have to learn to do ZX ZX ZX for consecutive doubles as well, depending on which finger they have to start with.N0thingSpecial wrote:
Mio I should’ve confronted you when you first started the semi vs full alternate thread but where did you get the definition for semi alternating and full alternating? cause depending on bpm ZXZ ZXZ ZXZ is within the domain of single tapping since you start every stream/triple with your dominant single tapping finger, it’s just you’re forced to “alternate” because it’s impractical to single tap all 9 notes of the three 200 bpm consecutive triples. This example itself just doesn’t support what semi alternating is.
From what I can understand you seem to think ZXZ XZX is full alternate cause of the continuation of alternating your fingers despite timing gaps. But what about consecutive doubles like ZX ZX ZX? it completely fits your description of full alternate but it at the same time support single tapping/semi alternating cause you end up starting a pattern with your dominant finger, if that’s the case semi alternating and full alternating is the same thing.
With the two examples in mind I want to ask what is semi alternating? where do you draw the line between single tapping and semi alternating? And where do you drawn the line between semi alternating and full alternating?
Emersyne's tapping style is weird! I would call him a semi-alternator or a singletapper, depending on whether he alternates quarterbeat jumps.Emersyne wrote:
You know, it's really weird. I do xzx for triples, but zx for doubles. Why is that?
These are good thoughts. I've thought about using index+ring finger as well for very similar reasons, but I can't because I use the Nono keypad.Emersyne wrote:
I used to be a full alternator when I played mouse only, then I switched to full alternating on keyboard (because, as a smolboi, I was too weak and slow to single tap anything, and I used alternation as a crutch), and now I singletap / semi-alternate.
I feel like semi-alternating is superior to full-alternating because, as WubWoofWolf says, the main difference between semi and full alternating is strength vs. brains, and at the end of the day at a high level, your ability to process what you are playing is the bottleneck to playing, not your physical potential to play. Very rarely is it truly necessary to full alternate a non-stream. It's the same reason why as a drummer, you have a leading and alternate hand, not two dominant hands.
I should also note that I used to use pointer + middle finger for keys, but now I use pointer + ring. I find that it really helps to a. stabilize my hand and b. avoid finger tripping from getting the signals I send to my hand befuddled, since there's a finger buffer between.
Oh. Maybe. If you tap with keyboard, you can focus all your hand muscles (including index and middle finger) on moving the mouse to the correct position. If you do mouse-only, you have to perform the same movement except now you're not allowed to use the index and middle finger the same way, because those fingers need to be ready to tap. I guess maybe that means the hand-movement requires more processing with mouse-only than keyboard? With no experimental data and no degree in neuroscience, we have to use wild speculation. Maybe you're right. : PN0thingSpecial wrote:
Mouse only is easier to process? Nah too many micro management for a single set of muscles is just hard to pull off
That's pretty much the opposite of what I was trying to say.N0thingSpecial wrote:
Mouse only is easier to process? Nah too many micro management for a single set of muscles is just hard to pull off
Yes I agree with what you mean about sticking to what feels natural however to problem with me is that im not playing in a grounded playstyle. When the bpm is lower than about 130 I "fully alternate", when the bpm is higher than 160 I about 50% of the time "semi alternate". When playing between those bpm ranges my brain has no idea what style to play causing lockup, confusion, and lack of tapping feedback. I just played some beatmaps that Mio Winter gave me, and I plan to practice ironing out my playstyle in this case I plan to fully alternate seeing as thats what I do when i'm comfortable. All I gotta do now is make everything thats uncomfortable, comfortable through practice.N0thingSpecial wrote:
Don't need a science project, just move your mouse around using claw grip and you're pretty much guaranteed to move your index and middle finger which makes it harder to develop muscle memory for both aiming and tapping at the same time
And on topic you don't really need to force yourself to practise a certain tapping style, playstyle is not forced out of people, it is the style that you feel natural with, Emilia use tap x cause he said it made the most sense to him and it was natural to him, same with people who full alternate and semi alternate
Well yes ill admit that I tended to stay away from stream, stack, tipple, double heavy maps, especially ones that don't provide time to transition between patterns.Endaris wrote:
Oh god, Angelic Layer...that's not really good practice if you ask me.
Your actual problem is a certain range of bpm, what you ought to do is finding a way how you can handle it best and then practice, practice and practice.
The reason you're locking up and getting confused is most likely because you are not familiar with these maps and never bothered to play them more because less success = less fun.
This is completely irrelevant to semi-alternating vs full-alternating
Not having a grounded tapping style is absolutely fine, it’s all about complexity and variety of pattern recognition and using the most natural tapping style to accompany those patterns. You finger lock not because your tapping sucks, it’s because your map pool for complex timing maps is not large enough for you to develop the necessary muscle memory for it. This game is always about making a conscious effort to make every aspect of the game subconscious.HyperSlayer72 wrote:
Yes I agree with what you mean about sticking to what feels natural however to problem with me is that im not playing in a grounded playstyle. When the bpm is lower than about 130 I "fully alternate", when the bpm is higher than 160 I about 50% of the time "semi alternate". When playing between those bpm ranges my brain has no idea what style to play causing lockup, confusion, and lack of tapping feedback. I just played some beatmaps that Mio Winter gave me, and I plan to practice ironing out my playstyle in this case I plan to fully alternate seeing as thats what I do when i'm comfortable. All I gotta do now is make everything thats uncomfortable, comfortable through practice.
Here are the maps for those interested: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/366963&m=0
Also IMO when a player has a deeper understanding and awareness of the nuances of thier own tapping and others it allows for better consistency and improvement.
Are you sure about that? The physical and the mental part of practice is linked, you cannot get better mentally without physically playing.Emersyne wrote:
I feel like semi-alternating is superior to full-alternating because, as WubWoofWolf says, the main difference between semi and full alternating is strength vs. brains, and at the end of the day at a high level, your ability to process what you are playing is the bottleneck to playing, not your physical potential to play.
WutM3ATL0V3R wrote:
Having to reset increases strain and can be a detrimental habit for sliders.
Ill give you an example, for 3 notes followed by 2 notes we have the following case:N0thingSpecial wrote:
Wut
I agree with the thing about having more time to hold down for slider cause that’s what I do.M3ATL0V3R wrote:
Does this make sense?
For the pattern ZXZ ZXZ ZXZ ZXZ ZXZ (semi alternating) at 200 bpm your Z finger has to press at 100 bpm and your Y finger has to press at 50bpm (assuming the rests are the same value as the notes)N0thingSpecial wrote:
I agree with the thing about having more time to hold down for slider cause that’s what I do.
But the rest is kinda exaggerated and it really comes down to your physical limitations, BPM and does your map pool even includes maps that push you that far. R U STILL XXX and furioso melodia would be maps that I have stamina issues thus I alternate but 99% of other maps with the same rhythm complexity usually hover around 130 to 200 BPM, which physical stress is less of a problem, where single tapping/semi alternate shines as it cause less cognitive stress.
But would you agree it’s easier to develop muscle memory for patterns when you single tap? From a pure tapping stand point it is probably more advantageous in the long run to learn alternate, but when aim is in the equation the effort required to learn both muscle memory for alternating and aiming is more than effort to learn single tapping and aiming. Of course you could argue that it depends on what the players look for in this game, like old maps aren’t physically intense to aim compared to modern mapping, and there’s an emphasis for finger control and rhythm sense. But all things considered developing muscle memory for aim is probably more important than muscle memory for tapping, if you’re a common man that just wants to rank up then single tap is just simply easier to learn, it’s simple, repetitive and easy to replicate consistently, so you can focus on aim.M3ATL0V3R wrote:
stuff
Yes, for low bpmN0thingSpecial wrote:
But would you agree it’s easier to develop muscle memory for patterns when you single tap?
But if all you learn is single tapping and aiming early on then you get a bunch of players frustrated and stuck at a wall because they cant overcome their high OD DT scores which only have single tapping. They have to learn streams and it is harder for them to transition. For semi or full alternators this is less of a problem as they already have the muscle memory.N0thingSpecial wrote:
From a pure tapping stand point it is probably more advantageous in the long run to learn alternate, but when aim is in the equation the effort required to learn both muscle memory for alternating and aiming is more than effort to learn single tapping and aiming. Of course you could argue that it depends on what the players look for in this game, like old maps aren’t physically intense to aim compared to modern mapping, and there’s an emphasis for finger control and rhythm sense. But all things considered developing muscle memory for aim is probably more important than muscle memory for tapping, if you’re a common man that just wants to rank up then single tap is just simply easier to learn, it’s simple, repetitive and easy to replicate consistently, so you can focus on aim.
From a logical stand point yes alternate is better, but practically speaking would you actually invest more time on finger control when you can jump start you progress focusing on aim.