2017-10-20 21:42 mindmaster107: ah
2017-10-20 21:42 MrSergio: usually structure means more like... rhythm, flow, aesthetics... everything together
2017-10-20 21:42 mindmaster107: ah so not just visuals
2017-10-20 21:42 MrSergio: but here it was more of a visual representation of the rhythm
2017-10-20 21:43 MrSergio: in my mind I had this: the song is all the same, why is the pattern changing shape ???
2017-10-20 21:43 MrSergio: so ye
2017-10-20 21:43 mindmaster107: ye I agree with you, with the knowledge I have gained from mapping my other song
2017-10-20 21:43 mindmaster107: so to recap
2017-10-20 21:43 mindmaster107: 1. Fix beginning
2017-10-20 21:43 mindmaster107: 2. make spacing clearer, and follow only snares in post-kiai
2017-10-20 21:44 mindmaster107: 3. profit?
2017-10-20 21:44 mindmaster107: if this is fixed, is this good enough for ranked?
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: I wish I could find a nice way to also make this somewhat more playable for myself but I guess I just can't come up with anything right now 00:40:354 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1) -
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: I just checked the first 1/3 of the song xD
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: idk
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: let me see
2017-10-20 21:44 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: oh, small things like
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: 01:00:118 (2,3,4,5,1) -
2017-10-20 21:45 MrSergio: if you move 01:00:471 (3,4,5) - closer to the next slider it is easier
2017-10-20 21:45 MrSergio: there is an explanation for that
2017-10-20 21:45 MrSergio: clicking and moving together is hard, that's obvious, right?
2017-10-20 21:45 mindmaster107: ye that is what I used for the kiai
2017-10-20 21:45 mindmaster107: I see what you mean now
2017-10-20 21:45 MrSergio: but
2017-10-20 21:46 MrSergio: first moving and then clicking is easier than first clicking than moving
2017-10-20 21:46 MrSergio: and then moving*
2017-10-20 21:46 MrSergio: so putting the jump at 01:00:118 (2,3) - makes it easier to catch
2017-10-20 21:46 MrSergio: since it's a calmer part, making it hard to play seems kinda evil to me xD
2017-10-20 21:46 mindmaster107: I still want to keep the visual spacing, so I would just replace with with a repeat slider
2017-10-20 21:47 MrSergio:
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356125 possibility
2017-10-20 21:47 MrSergio: or you could make it a non-stacked stream or idk... see yourself
2017-10-20 21:47 MrSergio: 01:02:589 (2,3,4) - kinda same reasoning
2017-10-20 21:47 mindmaster107: well
2017-10-20 21:47 mindmaster107: this is to hit the snare
2017-10-20 21:47 mindmaster107: remember
2017-10-20 21:47 mindmaster107: so this is intentional
2017-10-20 21:47 MrSergio: umh...
2017-10-20 21:48 MrSergio: then one more reason to make the rule about snares more obvious
2017-10-20 21:48 MrSergio: but I guess it is worth mentioning this
2017-10-20 21:48 MrSergio: there is a way to make low spacing feel more emphasized than large spacing
2017-10-20 21:48 MrSergio: which is the base concept of using those cool SV changes on wub maps, if you ever saw them
2017-10-20 21:49 mindmaster107: I tried SV on my newer map
2017-10-20 21:49 MrSergio: take 01:02:236 (1,2,3,4) -
2017-10-20 21:49 MrSergio: there is a way to make 01:02:942 (4) - stronger than what it is right now
2017-10-20 21:49 MrSergio:
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/93561412017-10-20 21:49 MrSergio: "why does it feel more emphasized that way?"
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: have you ever thought aobut how sliders work?
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: like... they are not like circles
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: you gotta follow their track and their speed
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: no matter what
2017-10-20 21:50 mindmaster107: hold up I wanna screen cap that
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: so here's the catch:
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: you can /savelog
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: lol
2017-10-20 21:51 MrSergio: the catch on that pattern is the fact you "smash against the slider"
2017-10-20 21:51 MrSergio: what I mean by that has to do with the cursor's movement
2017-10-20 21:51 MrSergio: if you take the screen, you notice the fast movement on 01:02:589 (2,3) - , right?
2017-10-20 21:51 MrSergio: (we have a jump, that's clearly a fast movement, isn't it)
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: now, once I have to go hit 01:02:942 (4) - I have a really small jump, a direction change and a slow SV
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: it's like hitting a wall while dricing
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: driving*
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: you were going fast and all of a sudden you have to move slower
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: like... reallly slower
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: this contradiction in movement makes it so that you "feel" more the whole slider body, thus creating more emphasis on the slider head
2017-10-20 21:53 mindmaster107: While I understand what you mean, I still feel uncomfortable working with this kind of emphasis, cus Im not used to it enough, while regular spacing does the job fine
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: well, just try it out and play with it
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: I'm not saying you have to do it
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: but that's one effective way to manage that emphasis there imo
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: with a different rotational angle and SV things might also change, so ye... try it out and see what you like
2017-10-20 21:54 mindmaster107: I will try it in a future map, cus I wanna keep my ideas on this map the same
2017-10-20 21:54 MrSergio: having straight ahead jumps as you have right now for 01:02:589 (2,3,4) - feels more stressing than emphasized tho
2017-10-20 21:54 mindmaster107: stressed and emphasized are different?
2017-10-20 21:54 MrSergio: and the reason to that is because you have to keep moving forward and backwards
2017-10-20 21:54 MrSergio: yes
2017-10-20 21:54 MrSergio: they are
2017-10-20 21:55 MrSergio: stress is simply "hard" without any emphasis addition
2017-10-20 21:55 mindmaster107: ha?
2017-10-20 21:55 mindmaster107: wait how does that work
2017-10-20 21:55 mindmaster107: you feel stressed by the movement, and that shows off the sound
2017-10-20 21:55 MrSergio: usually something like [https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356188 this] is just stress
2017-10-20 21:56 MrSergio: the reason to that is that you move forward to catch the next circle, right?
2017-10-20 21:56 MrSergio: but at the same time, you have to stop your cursor, so you have to put an opposite force to your direction
2017-10-20 21:56 MrSergio: so doing straight ahead jumps means forcing your hand to make quick right-left movements to catch each circle
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: as the spacing increases, the more stressing it becomes
2017-10-20 21:57 mindmaster107: I guess flow+spacing together is simply not easy for me to comprehend
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: the fact you exercise an opposite force to the initial forces makes it lose all the emphasis
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: yea... you see... I usually explain this stuff in around 4 hours to my mentees
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: it takes a lot of time
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: and it's not easy either
2017-10-20 21:57 mindmaster107: btw
2017-10-20 21:57 mindmaster107:
https://i.ppy.sh/c9d9ebcdf1707e03562e69 ... 6e2e706e672017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: the gist is that the movement in the screen I sent you is just stress
2017-10-20 21:58 mindmaster107: what if stress is put in contrast of everything else?
2017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: and that's what you do on your current pattern at 01:02:589 (2,3,4) -
2017-10-20 21:58 mindmaster107: or is that not direct enough
2017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: umh...
2017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: it really really depends
2017-10-20 21:58 mindmaster107: ye my ideas are not very bold here
2017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: since there are different ways to make something stressful
2017-10-20 21:59 MrSergio: just think of how many possibilities to place your objects you have
2017-10-20 21:59 MrSergio: it's the same: you have inifinte possibilities to make something stressful
2017-10-20 21:59 MrSergio: so I can't say for sure
2017-10-20 21:59 MrSergio: the mapper's job is making whatever rule he went for be really obvious to anyone who plays it
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: so in case you do apply that stress-contrast rule, you have to make it obvious
2017-10-20 22:00 mindmaster107: well I will keep this in mind for future maps, cus I think making the map better contradicts my core flawed ideas
2017-10-20 22:00 mindmaster107: in this one
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: whether it is fitting or not can be discussed later on, but you as a mapper have to make it clear first
2017-10-20 22:00 mindmaster107: I did keep the contrast in mind in my current map
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: heh...
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: that last statement is kinda... lol
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: the "flawed" stuff
2017-10-20 22:01 mindmaster107: cus everything you are saying goes against one of the ideas I wanted in the map
2017-10-20 22:01 MrSergio: you see, HW doesn't make flawed patterns
2017-10-20 22:01 MrSergio: she just uses a concept to its extreme
2017-10-20 22:01 mindmaster107: ik and I am using an idea which is in essence not great
2017-10-20 22:01 MrSergio: so like... everything has a logic and you understand that, but at the same time it is so stretched you can't keep up with it
2017-10-20 22:02 mindmaster107: ah
2017-10-20 22:02 MrSergio: so you come to hate it because you know how to play it but can't play it
2017-10-20 22:02 MrSergio: you can't because you're not fast enough or can't click enough or whatever
2017-10-20 22:02 mindmaster107: well that is the beauty of HW maps or something
2017-10-20 22:02 MrSergio: but you know what to do/follow
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: that being said, I'm not sure how this applies to this map in specific right now
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: we kind of went offtopic
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: well still
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: good to know
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: if I wanna make a HW imitation
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: in the future
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: so keep in mind that concept about the slider body emphasis
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: it's one way to do it
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: doing it the opposite way feels more stressful than emphasized
2017-10-20 22:04 MrSergio: (and you did)
2017-10-20 22:04 mindmaster107: ye. I can safely abandon this one for now, and just focus on my newer map, cus it has a more clear idea
2017-10-20 22:04 MrSergio: but ye... I believe this map is a better starting point than no map, since you have a list of the things you can do/work well, and a list of the things that don't
2017-10-20 22:05 mindmaster107: it is more painful going through old ideas cus they are no longer good
2017-10-20 22:05 MrSergio: I wish I still had my old 3 years map
2017-10-20 22:05 mindmaster107: than to restart
2017-10-20 22:05 MrSergio: it would have been a great example
2017-10-20 22:05 mindmaster107: for me at least
2017-10-20 22:05 MrSergio: since I remapped that same song not long ago
2017-10-20 22:05 MrSergio: umh..
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: that may be true, but you might as well be misinterpreting yourself there
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: it is easy to restart? yes
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: but why?
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: because you know what you want to achieve
2017-10-20 22:06 mindmaster107: mhm
2017-10-20 22:06 mindmaster107: and I know the faults I had made
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: if you didn't map at first the song you'd have a hard time deciding what to do
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: that's why even having a not-good map is a good starting point, if not better, than no map at all
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: I remapped the same song 4 times once
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: the last time I remapped it took me one afternoon alone and it was far better than any previous version
2017-10-20 22:07 mindmaster107: I see the prospect of remapping ye
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: and that's because I knew the road: I knew where the traps where and what I should do
2017-10-20 22:07 mindmaster107: but I havent advanced enough to see how to clearly fix many things
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: it was like replaying the same level of a game
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: ye
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: that's why that map of 3 years ago would have been a good example
2017-10-20 22:08 mindmaster107: I understand what you mean entierly
2017-10-20 22:08 MrSergio: the difference in 3 years of experience is like abyssal to say the least
2017-10-20 22:08 mindmaster107: and hopefully in the future, I will remap this into something great
2017-10-20 22:08 mindmaster107: er
2017-10-20 22:08 MrSergio: I can ensure you that you will
2017-10-20 22:08 mindmaster107: and my current map
2017-10-20 22:08 MrSergio: I never heard of any mapper become worse as time passes
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: btw
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: can I get a quick look at the newer map?
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: after a few mods ironing out my brain farts
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: it feels already better than my old map
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1431875 Wisp X - Frozen Leaves]
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: albeit I dunno how good it is objectivly
2017-10-20 22:10 mindmaster107: not for an icon no, cus imm still trying to get mods
2017-10-20 22:10 mindmaster107: but is there anything glaring I am once again missing
2017-10-20 22:12 MrSergio: uh, moment, they called me and I have to search for something
2017-10-20 22:12 MrSergio: brb in 5 minutes
2017-10-20 22:13 mindmaster107: ok
2017-10-20 22:13 mindmaster107: no problem
2017-10-20 22:21 MrSergio: back
2017-10-20 22:22 mindmaster107: ooooo
2017-10-20 22:22 mindmaster107: thank you so much for you time XD
2017-10-20 22:23 MrSergio: looking at 00:08:242 (4,5,6,7) - it feels like you broke the concept from 00:05:842 (4,5,6) -
2017-10-20 22:23 mindmaster107: clearly tho this time
2017-10-20 22:23 MrSergio: what would have been expected with this much consistency was to have first 00:09:292 (7) - and then 00:08:992 (6) -
2017-10-20 22:23 MrSergio: although it's not a big deal
2017-10-20 22:23 MrSergio: I mean, it's clearly a different part so you don't have to stick to consistency thaat much
2017-10-20 22:24 mindmaster107: ^^
2017-10-20 22:24 MrSergio: 00:19:492 (2,3,4) - this visual spacing might be misleading tho, since they are in the same combo
2017-10-20 22:24 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:24 mindmaster107: ok how so?
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: 00:19:492 (2,3) - 1/4 gap
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: 00:19:792 (3,4) - 1/2 gap
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: same visual spacing
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: ah
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: oh
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: I see
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: in actual gameplay no one really cares, but in the long run it might feel like you don't know how spacing works so ye
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: oh so it isn;t a problem
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: I mean, it's again about contrast: similar things using similar concepts, different things using different oncepts
2017-10-20 22:26 MrSergio: not a big one
2017-10-20 22:26 MrSergio: I would care
2017-10-20 22:26 MrSergio: someone might not
2017-10-20 22:26 MrSergio: I would personally stack 3 on top of 4
2017-10-20 22:26 mindmaster107: well I changed it cus the high pitched instrument stopped here, and kept it like this cus I wanted spacing to stay the main focus
2017-10-20 22:27 mindmaster107: are there any map-failing issues in my map xP
2017-10-20 22:27 MrSergio: 00:20:992 (6,7,8,9) - this is more on hitsounds: claps are better suited for single hits, not streams. The way it plays with hitsounds, it feels like the only important beats are the ones with the clap, while the other two are just filler rhythm
2017-10-20 22:27 MrSergio: don't think so
2017-10-20 22:27 mindmaster107: well no not just the beginning
2017-10-20 22:28 mindmaster107: the beginning im proud of
2017-10-20 22:28 MrSergio: 00:39:592 (1,2) - just that spacing keeps popping up which for some reasons tilts me
2017-10-20 22:28 MrSergio: lol
2017-10-20 22:28 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:29 MrSergio: 00:47:242 (3) - if you delete stuff like this you create better contrast with 00:47:392 (1,2,3,4) -
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: I ignored pedantic rhythm cus I knew it would be readable
2017-10-20 22:29 MrSergio: heh, not always
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: ye
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: I made sure it was readable
2017-10-20 22:29 MrSergio: I mean, it's ok to assume certain things, but be careful since not everyone assumes the same conclusions
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: I tested my map with a 6 digit
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: I think im ok
2017-10-20 22:29 MrSergio: what's obvious for me, might not be for you, etc...
2017-10-20 22:30 mindmaster107: well fair I understand
2017-10-20 22:30 MrSergio: (this is just a general warning)
2017-10-20 22:30 mindmaster107: ik
2017-10-20 22:30 MrSergio: 00:50:092 (4,5,1) - stuff about straight jumps pt.2
2017-10-20 22:30 MrSergio: but the stack on 1 might make up for it
2017-10-20 22:30 MrSergio: not big anyway
2017-10-20 22:30 mindmaster107: I got told in a mod to do this
2017-10-20 22:30 mindmaster107: cus in another section I did something else
2017-10-20 22:31 mindmaster107: and the complained
2017-10-20 22:31 mindmaster107: I think it is due to the lower bpm
2017-10-20 22:31 mindmaster107: that I can get away with more things
2017-10-20 22:31 MrSergio: indeed the lower BPM allows you to a lot of stuff that otherwise would feel way more strange
2017-10-20 22:31 MrSergio: eg 01:20:992 (8,9,10) -
2017-10-20 22:32 mindmaster107: well low spacing helps too
2017-10-20 22:32 mindmaster107: cus people can smoothly transition
2017-10-20 22:32 MrSergio: I mean, it would have been cool if you used this concept of varied spacing a bit more, but it just pops up sometimes so it feels like... "wut"
2017-10-20 22:32 mindmaster107: well is that bad
2017-10-20 22:32 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:33 mindmaster107: I tried making my ideas bolder through high contrast
2017-10-20 22:33 MrSergio: it is not great
2017-10-20 22:33 mindmaster107: maybe too high?
2017-10-20 22:33 MrSergio: well, a constant 1/4 rhythm doesn't allow for much contrast by default, be careful
2017-10-20 22:33 mindmaster107: maybe im using spacing too sparingly
2017-10-20 22:33 MrSergio: so even if you add these variation it doesn't stand out too much anyway
2017-10-20 22:34 MrSergio: in fact, it's the opposite, they stand out a bit as being random (even tho it's a concept appearing in a seldom manner)
2017-10-20 22:34 mindmaster107: thank low spacing and bpm for my ideas being acceptable XD
2017-10-20 22:34 mindmaster107: it isn;t bad, it is just at higher bpm, the negatives become way more prominant
2017-10-20 22:34 MrSergio: but again, there is no exact rule allowing the player to anticipate where they will have to make that small movement and where not if not by looking at the map
2017-10-20 22:35 MrSergio: 01:22:192 (3,4) -
2017-10-20 22:35 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:35 MrSergio: and by rule I mean: hints you get from the song
2017-10-20 22:35 MrSergio: "when you hear X, do Y"
2017-10-20 22:35 mindmaster107: wait the rule is snare, do jump
2017-10-20 22:35 MrSergio: why is 01:22:192 (3,4) - not with small spacing? xD
2017-10-20 22:36 mindmaster107: it is large cus 3 is snare
2017-10-20 22:36 mindmaster107: I dunno why it is circles
2017-10-20 22:36 mindmaster107: imma change that
2017-10-20 22:36 MrSergio: 01:19:792 (4) - 01:20:992 (8) - snare but they are sliders
2017-10-20 22:36 MrSergio: ye
2017-10-20 22:36 MrSergio: prolly 01:22:492 (5) - this should have been in circles and with the small spacing concept
2017-10-20 22:37 MrSergio: 01:32:992 (8) - missing clap?
2017-10-20 22:37 MrSergio: 01:34:492 (5) - and this one feels better without the clap
2017-10-20 22:37 MrSergio: (it is not in the song for sure)
2017-10-20 22:38 mindmaster107: ok
2017-10-20 22:38 MrSergio: 01:36:142 (1) - seeing the song being so calm, I would prefer x10 times a break instead of a spinner
2017-10-20 22:38 MrSergio: on spinners you gotta spin like crazy (or at least, you can)
2017-10-20 22:38 MrSergio: assuming average players spin at 370, that's a lot of movement for a really calm part
2017-10-20 22:38 mindmaster107: wait 370
2017-10-20 22:38 mindmaster107: wut
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: 370RPM
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: lemme test how hard it is on slow bpm
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: rpm*
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: it's the spinner speed
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: ye
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: but
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: not "hard"
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: who spinns that fast
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: but "unfitting with the calm part"
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: I spin averagely on 400-410 =3=
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: and anything above 200 would be a too fast movement for this part imo lol
2017-10-20 22:40 mindmaster107: I made the spinners long to compensate
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: 01:46:342 (1) - also, the spinner has a beat on a blue tick which doesn't fit at all
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: you ignores how a spinner is played imo xD
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: ignored*
2017-10-20 22:40 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:40 mindmaster107: the beginning of a spinner is not distinct
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: and we should blame nowadays' standards on mapping
2017-10-20 22:41 MrSergio: spinners are meant for intense parts of the song
2017-10-20 22:41 MrSergio: like a really crazy stream you can't replicate with circles
2017-10-20 22:42 mindmaster107: image material tho
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: what many mappers do to fit the 5 minutes for approval is definitely one of the few things I can say are "wrong"
2017-10-20 22:42 mindmaster107: did this in 2013
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: who said it's correct, lol
2017-10-20 22:42 mindmaster107: not for approval
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: I mean
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: ye
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: there will be exceptions
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: spinners, in the original game, were meant for crazy streams you couldn't click with your stick on the touchscreen
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: and for end caps ye
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: I played it too!
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: good old days
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: of 2006
2017-10-20 22:43 MrSergio: (assuming you know that osu is derived from a Nintendo DS game called "osu tatakae Ouendan")
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: eyyyyy
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: yep so did I
2017-10-20 22:43 MrSergio: anyway
2017-10-20 22:43 MrSergio: the thing here is that I find a spinner unfitting for a calm part
2017-10-20 22:43 MrSergio: no one is gonna spin slowly to match the song's pace
2017-10-20 22:44 MrSergio: it means losing points after all
2017-10-20 22:44 mindmaster107: ok maybe new players are being lazy spinners
2017-10-20 22:44 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:44 MrSergio: a break would be way better
2017-10-20 22:44 mindmaster107: cus everyone I know spinns lazily
2017-10-20 22:44 mindmaster107: cookiezi style
2017-10-20 22:44 MrSergio: well, you're considering this from how people plays it, not how it is supposed to be played
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: kinda?
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: I am getting from test players
2017-10-20 22:45 MrSergio: heh... you're not the only one
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: so maybe there is a divide
2017-10-20 22:45 MrSergio: things just cahnged over time
2017-10-20 22:45 MrSergio: I can ensure you the spinner wasn't created for slow parts
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: can I get the escuxe of using modern mapping techniques?
2017-10-20 22:45 MrSergio: the fact we used it like that nowadays is clearly a mistake imo
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: also without them I would be under 5 mins drain
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107:
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: not really, since this sound is too soft even for that tbh
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: LOL
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: see? that's why I hate nowadays mapping
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: keep them... I guess
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: well depends on how you see it
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: silence their ends
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: I did
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: kinda
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: I don't wanna hear a blue tick beat
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: 5% and soft
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: I can't hear them
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: also, stuff like 02:04:792 (1,2) - could have silenced ends
2017-10-20 22:47 MrSergio: 02:13:192 (1) - if you make this a repeat it would be easier to hit a triple after it
2017-10-20 22:47 mindmaster107: yep fixed those
2017-10-20 22:47 mindmaster107: erm
2017-10-20 22:47 mindmaster107: second one
2017-10-20 22:47 MrSergio:
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/93565812017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: oh, 02:16:192 (1) - kinda misleading
2017-10-20 22:48 mindmaster107: I think there are many ways to represent the 1/3
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: it is uncommon to have 2 repeats
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: ye, there are
2017-10-20 22:48 mindmaster107: right
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: some ways make it easier
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: some ways make it harder
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: some ways make it also messier
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio:
2017-10-20 22:48 mindmaster107: well I made it match the song, and asethetics
2017-10-20 22:48 mindmaster107: it is definatly not hard
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: grouping similar sounds makes it cleaner and easier
2017-10-20 22:49 mindmaster107: a 200k player made it through just fine
2017-10-20 22:49 MrSergio: that's not the point lol xD
2017-10-20 22:49 mindmaster107: the reverses
2017-10-20 22:49 mindmaster107: ye imma change it
2017-10-20 22:49 MrSergio: there will always be someone who can play it
2017-10-20 22:49 MrSergio: the fact someone managed to doesn't mean it is "great" or "it works" (not necessarily)
2017-10-20 22:49 MrSergio: so instead, think of the logic behind it and if that makes sense
2017-10-20 22:50 MrSergio: if it does, THEN we can say it fits
2017-10-20 22:50 MrSergio: (think of how expert players can even play crap maps. That doesn't make the map good, right?)
2017-10-20 22:50 mindmaster107: The spider tails land on less intense sounds, while the triple does too
2017-10-20 22:50 mindmaster107: the middle sound inthe triple is oddly less intense
2017-10-20 22:50 mindmaster107: and this is expressed?
2017-10-20 22:51 mindmaster107: so that is my reasoning
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: then what about trying to make the flow between 02:13:192 (1,2) - a bit better
2017-10-20 22:51 mindmaster107: also keeping as it is, would keep the aesthetics
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: see how you go cw on 02:13:192 (1) -
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: then stop
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: go on 02:13:592 (2) -
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: and start moving again cw
2017-10-20 22:51 mindmaster107: I made the flow slightly awkward cus of the sudden change
2017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: it shouldn't be too big of a down side, as it is all small spacing
2017-10-20 22:52 MrSergio: 02:13:192 (1) - is already akward tho
2017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: oh
2017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: into the first object
2017-10-20 22:52 MrSergio: the suggestion:
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/93566132017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: wait how
2017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: would that fix it
2017-10-20 22:52 MrSergio: see how the jump after 1 follows 1's direction
2017-10-20 22:52 MrSergio: because the change happens only when you click on 2
2017-10-20 22:53 MrSergio: in you current pattern you have two changes: after you release 1 || once you hit 2
2017-10-20 22:53 MrSergio: so it's a back and forth which adds stress
2017-10-20 22:53 mindmaster107: 1 is meant to be held
2017-10-20 22:53 MrSergio: ye...
2017-10-20 22:53 mindmaster107: :thinking:
2017-10-20 22:54 MrSergio: well, try playing it. Imo it works better
2017-10-20 22:54 MrSergio: the exact reason "why" lies withing angles and emphasis
2017-10-20 22:54 MrSergio: (the stuff that takes me 4 hours to explain)
2017-10-20 22:54 mindmaster107: even if it flows better, my point of messing up flow slightly for the shift in musical tone still stands
2017-10-20 22:54 mindmaster107: which is why im sticking with this
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: "messing"... lol, that's a new reason xD
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: messing
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: never heard it, but alright
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: ok
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: bad work
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: word
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: usually messing things up is not a positive thing
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: the song really is strange here tho
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: making it strange can be a reason, depending on the song
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: but this song looks rather clean/simple
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: even in that passage
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: but alright
2017-10-20 22:56 mindmaster107: the repeating sliders tho
2017-10-20 22:56 mindmaster107: how to fix
2017-10-20 22:56 mindmaster107: this was recommended by handsome to use
2017-10-20 22:56 mindmaster107: cus I had something worse before
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: umh..
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: if you repmove last repeat and add a circle is fixed
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: the question is "where you place that circle to make it fitting"
2017-10-20 22:57 mindmaster107: that worked very badly
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: or
2017-10-20 22:57 mindmaster107: cus the circle was too special
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: you could just use 2 sliders
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: that I tried too
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: but handsome complained about it cus the music don support it
2017-10-20 22:58 MrSergio: [https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356667 high quality creativity]
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: I could try returning to that ye
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: that is what I did ye
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: this is what it used to look like
2017-10-20 22:58 MrSergio: or
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: but
2017-10-20 22:58 MrSergio: as last resort: use just circles
2017-10-20 22:58 MrSergio: 4 circles
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: no definatly not
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: cus the remaining 3 sounds are very quet
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: I could use the double slider
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: that could work slightly
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: no actually it could work pretty well
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: cus the 3rd sound is slightly more intense
2017-10-20 23:00 MrSergio: umh... they are as quiet as 01:15:292 (5,6) - tbh
2017-10-20 23:00 MrSergio: you could do a double stack
2017-10-20 23:00 MrSergio: 01:15:292 (5,6) - a double of this
2017-10-20 23:01 MrSergio: well, I'm just exploring alternatives
2017-10-20 23:01 mindmaster107: I will take that alternative
2017-10-20 23:01 MrSergio: to begin with there isn't that much of an alternative there
2017-10-20 23:01 MrSergio: 4 beats can't be expressed in infinite ways regardless
2017-10-20 23:02 MrSergio: 02:32:692 (2,3) - this sounds similar to 02:32:392 (1) - in the song to me tho
2017-10-20 23:02 MrSergio: hitsounding supports that too
2017-10-20 23:02 MrSergio:
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/93567012017-10-20 23:02 MrSergio: basically: whatever has a clap becomes a click for the player, which makes sense
2017-10-20 23:03 mindmaster107: I guess the sound is too subtle
2017-10-20 23:03 mindmaster107: ye
2017-10-20 23:03 MrSergio: and right now you have 02:32:842 - as a click, which uhhh
2017-10-20 23:03 mindmaster107: there is a sound being mapped
2017-10-20 23:03 mindmaster107: but too quet I think