I have some concerns about the topdiff of this mapset.
Disclaimer: My intent is not to destroy, discredit, undermine, defame, slander, or demotivate you or this map, and definitely not to force my opinion on you. All I would like to hear is a valid, clear explanation backed up by the song itself and the concepts of the map.
[Challenger]
- 00:53:608 (2,3,4,5,6) - I'm having a very hard time understanding how these notes relate to the song, they don't appear in it and the song doesn't really hint at their existence either. To me they sound completely additive and imo unfitting to the section especially when the intensity of the song is comparable to 00:45:568 - with the exception of the slight raise in pitch of the violin. That slight raise of pitch doesn't really hint at using spaced 1/4 patterns to notes that are not present in the song. Now I know you're going to say that you already replied to this, but here is what I think about your reply.
Diasos wrote:
I like this, sure this part is harder but that's what I was looking for, this is the hard part of the slower and easier part, don't know if you get what I'm saying. It's nice to have an increasing difficulty thoughout the entire difficulty (like I did in Bronze, and I tried to do the same in all diffs) but here I wanted to also have difficulty spikes in order to make the difficulty overall more fun. And for me this is good "overmapping", the song itself is so repeating and these kind of patterns are a must if you want to not bore the player imo, and it's not like I did crazy 1/8 patterns or anything like that, this for me is fine and enjoyable. I could add some 1/4 repeating sliders to make these patterns easier like I did in Master but I don't want to, if people find those patterns too hard then they have to practice and get better aim/play Master instead.
The hard part of the slower and easier part seems to be harder than the beginning of the more intense build-up section 01:08:608 - which is quite a contrast between what the song is doing and what the map is doing. This poses an issue regarding the proper representation of a song's intensity as per the Ranking Criteria Guidelines:
Ranking Criteria wrote:
Avoid unjustified spikes in difficulty. Difficulty should be representative of the song's intensity.
If you wanted "increasing difficulty throughout the entire difficulty" then the buildup would have to be even more overmapped to compensate, but since it isn't, 00:53:248 - seems like a very high difficulty spike when compared to the section right after it.
If the song is repeating then the map could also repeat, and avoid varying itself drastically but rather use slight variations in patterning and placement which more than sufficient to keep the player interested. Putting in 1/4 patterns that are not really supported by the song makes it difficult for the players to understand your map and to form a connection between it and the song.
"This for me is fine and enjoyable," I don't mean to be rude, but I have a hard time believing a 200k player can play these patterns well enough to make a judgment about how well they play. Even for people who are much better than I am at this game, these patterns seem to raise quite a few questions about their playability, reading the concerns voiced above.
"If people find those patterns too hard then they have to practice and get better aim/play Master instead" this is far from the problem. The problem is not players are too bad, the problem is it has issues accurately expressing the song's changing intensity. This is why they feel unnatural and difficult to play. The patterns themselves have nothing to do with why they feel awkward.
- 02:16:168 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3) - Playability of these aside these are also massive difficulty spikes that don't really present themselves in the song. The song itself relies on powerful impact beats, which implies emphasis should logically (both to mappers and to players) be on those beats - namely, the white ticks. However, in these patterns emphasis on the white ticks is ignored 02:16:288 (3,7) - and instead replaced with a rotating 1/4 hexagonal pattern which, when 02:17:008 (1,2,3) - is introduced, plays very questionably due to the change in snapping but lack of change in distance. Not everything is easy to read with approach circles, especially at the speed you force the player to reach with the 1/4 just prior to this. Reading this change is very unintuitive as well with the omission of any related pattern with this concept anywhere previously in the map leading to this introduction being totally unexpected.
Your reply to this was:
Diasios wrote:
As I said earlier, if people find those patterns too hard then they have to practice and get better aim/play Master instead. These are my favourite patterns and I genuinely love them, there's no way I'm going to make any change here.
and
Diasios wrote:
It's such a basic rhythm, what's so hard to understand?
I understand you may like the patterns and that players need to "git gud" to play these, but my concern lies with their relevance and place in the overall map. They are very out-of-place as no 1/1 gap with the same spacing as 1/4 gap was ever introduced before the kiai which automatically makes it questionable. Not only that, but the fact that the 1/4 mapped isn't present in the song to begin with already makes the pattern feel awkward to play, and then adding on this 1/1 spacing being the same as 1/4 gimmick makes it even more awkward.
I don't actually see any reasoning other than "it's the player's fault for not being good" and "it's my style so I'm keeping it" both of which are heavily subjective and lack support from the map's relevance to the song. Prioritizing song expression is number one for me, personally (it may not be for you) which means these reasons do not strike me as valid.
Diasios wrote:
1 year ago I asked a QAT to check quickly this map and to give me his opinion about it
Standards from 1 year ago are already outdated, unfortunately. Mapping changes quite quickly.
These are my two biggest concerns with the topdiff and I strongly urge you to rethink the usage of these patterns. I do not intend to hurt this map or the way it's done, but the intensity you mapped in some areas doesn't fit with the intensity of the song - and the introduction of 02:16:768 (7,8,1,2,3) - so late into the map is quite unintuitive when the map could have used the concept earlier so that the player would expect it.
On a side-note:
Diasios wrote:
tl;dr
don't be an elitist bitch
You find some patterns to be too hard for you? Play lower difficulties or get good.
You don't like the mapping style? Play the guest difficulties if there are any.
The rhythm for you is too weird and you don't understand it? Restart if you miss or watch/learn the map in the editor.
Still not happy? Make your own version of the beatmap the way you want it to be or just move on and play another one, there's plenty of choice in this game.
Nobody was really being elitist, they were merely asking for an explanation and voicing their concerns. Nobody said anything the map is doing was wrong. Responding to perceived elitism with more elitism isn't the right way to go imo.