If only you hadn't insulted people.
If you want the things from above to happen, then please be our example.
Show us what we should do.

Let me be frank

First of all Meah calm the fuck down

SECONDLY:

[Taiga] wrote:

4. Respect your elders - Administrator and Moderators - stop disrespecting them, bashing for closing threads, making fun of them. As someone who had both of this positions in official polish LoL forum with great amount of active users, I can assure you, it's not fun for them. Mod before closing something or sending to oblivion needs to read all your posts and it isn't fun at some point. It takes time and effort. Respect them for this. As far as they don't mind playing with them, feel free but for god sake - keep common sense in touch and don't cross red line while doing this.

I mean, if a thread is locked, nothing we can do to unlock it but as for common sense - it's called common sense for a reason, and notice not UNIVERSAL sense.

Meaning you can't expect the same ideals to be etched into every person so
Spam - obs annoying. Especially Satires - satirize in what, the forum, make a thread labeled mod criticism or something?

I am calm?

You see, some things, after they have been done, can never be undone. As someone who's been on this forum for QUITE a long time (far longer than just signed up), I can with certainty say that I will NEVER change my opinion on some people; I will never come to respect them or even recognise their existence for that matter.

As such, I can't respect this forum as a whole and never will. If I recall my experiences from other forums, there have always been people I disliked. Some of those were kids, so it's not that this is the first forum I meet brats on, however, the amount of idiocy, lack of intelligence and general upbringing is what makes me view people here with disgust.

People here behave as if they were raised in a fucking forest and they somehow firmly believe that it's "cool" to act that way. You actually wrote a good example of that behaviour in your post - the disrespect towards mods. While I personally hold no love for some of them, I would never be openly hostile towards someone whose job is to regulate this place.

I think it all just boils down to people here being fucking ingrates who have absolutely no manners and are beyond all reason, which makes this thread a nice yet futile attempt at correcting it. People have to start with themselves before they learn how to act around others.

this is why we can't have nice things, i usually drive myself away from these threads and hide in the corner because im a pussy

Taiga I love you man <3

It's genuine^

DJ Enetro wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

4. Respect your elders - Administrator and Moderators - stop disrespecting them, bashing for closing threads, making fun of them. As someone who had both of this positions in official polish LoL forum with great amount of active users, I can assure you, it's not fun for them. Mod before closing something or sending to oblivion needs to read all your posts and it isn't fun at some point. It takes time and effort. Respect them for this. As far as they don't mind playing with them, feel free but for god sake - keep common sense in touch and don't cross red line while doing this.

I mean, if a thread is locked, nothing we can do to unlock it but as for common sense - it's called common sense for a reason, and notice not UNIVERSAL sense.

Meaning you can't expect the same ideals to be etched into every person so
Spam - obs annoying. Especially Satires - satirize in what, the forum, make a thread labeled mod criticism or something?

Common sense is widely shared by majority of people. That is why it's called common sense. Many people have same feelings about events.
As i said - mods and admins work hard. If you get this position and volunteer to keep specific part of forum / chat clean and moderated, you need to do your work. Your elders expect this from you. You need to spend some of your free time to read every post, decide via common sense applied for best of great majority of community if thread should stay alive and be closed, decide on trublemaker user - lock out from posting / ban? Your decisions then are judged higher, guy will probably complain. It is not only hard work but also stress to do your best. Not everyone is good at this position and for sure, people who claim it, require respect which we all missed here.
Bashing Flan/Stefan/Eph for closing topics was not right. Making fun of them was not right. Your "satires" about Flan were not right. Maybe now you will understand this. It's about respecting others work and free time spent into making it.

Aurani wrote:

You see, some things, after they have been done, can never be undone. As someone who's been on this forum for QUITE a long time (far longer than just signed up), I can with certainty say that I will NEVER change my opinion on some people; I will never come to respect them or even recognise their existence for that matter.

It is your decision, personally I understand that, there are people like that for me too. But this should not make you hostile towards them. Ignore their posts, even if they speak to you - that is fine, they get bored after some time of speaking like to the wall. All I just ask, for sake of everyone here and I may add this to this piece of guidelines above - don't be openly hostile towards this ignored people. Being like that + being a meanie is a double edge sword and creates situations like now - which nobody likes and everyone would love to avoid.

Aurani wrote:

As such, I can't respect this forum as a whole and never will. If I recall my experiences from other forums, there have always been people I disliked. Some of those were kids, so it's not that this is the first forum I meet brats on, however, the amount of idiocy, lack of intelligence and general upbringing is what makes me view people here with disgust.

People here behave as if they were raised in a fucking forest and they somehow firmly believe that it's "cool" to act that way. You actually wrote a good example of that behaviour in your post - the disrespect towards mods. While I personally hold no love for some of them, I would never be openly hostile towards someone whose job is to regulate this place.

There were, there are and there will be stupid people around. The point is to show them that there is a way to behave and either they join good bandwagoon or they leave. But this require 2 things - guidelines on which i try to work and for what I try to get agreement from everyone involved into this big drama, maybe even more people. I will do my best and kneel before Ephemeral to give me helping hand to make this even better. Second thing are people - this who follow it and will together do their best to show trublemaker where is his place.

We can always try, as I said, this place can be filled with shitposts, utterly shit garbage but it goes all around how people make it - ignore shit, contribute to topics which contain value, create content, create memes, share them, etc.

Aurani wrote:

I think it all just boils down to people here being fucking ingrates who have absolutely no manners and are beyond all reason, which makes this thread a nice yet futile attempt at correcting it. People have to start with themselves before they learn how to act around others.

Well, I will not give up, not so easy, even if this will cost me taking every single person and speak with them in private to get along and find common denominator. Just to make this place something what everyone can enjoy and i mean everyone as community who comes here for a piece of chillout.

Wall of Words

I appreciate the effort Taiga, but OT works a bit differently than what you seem to be thinking to expect propositions to do anything. According to the OT rules, everything posted on here has no value. You can impress people, but ultimately others will do what they want. You can't stop that on your own. The best you can try to do is get a few people to agree and have an inner circle of people following something that will shift the OT content by a some sort of level. I am not talking about shitty attempts like ALC. That was made on OT and was a joke. What is needed is a private agreement among people. Take the OT!neus discord as an example. Me, Blitzfrog, Kai, and John have all agreed to provide the OT!news as part of an effort to better the content quality. As daunting as it sounds, create a group and work from there.

How to lose any proper credibility 101:

Mention being in a "team" with Blitzfrog, Kai and whoever the fuck John is.

Aurani wrote:

How to lose any proper credibility 101:

Mention being in a "team" with Blitzfrog, Kai and whoever the fuck John is.

The good thing about OT is that nobody has any credibility.

Also we have done more to bring quality to OT than I've seen you or anyone during my time here. Sure they shitpost, so does everyone, even me. But there is a handful who try to come up with something good. Come up with something as great as OT!news and then maybe I'll consider whatever you need to say regarding the team.

There is no need to force "quality" posts - just remove the really shit ones. As for everyone shitposting, we both know that's just an excuse, as I sure as shit never saw Hika, Railey, Bird, Mara and similar people (there are quite a few more) shitpost to the same extent your buttbuddies do.

I'll pretend I haven't read the OT news part.

Aurani wrote:

There is no need to force "quality" posts - just remove the really shit ones.

Kinda agree with that one. Instead of removing really shitty posts, the thread gets locked.

Aurani wrote:

As for everyone shitposting, we both know that's just an excuse, as I sure as shit never saw Hika, Railey, Bird, Mara and similar people (there are quite a few more) shitpost to the same extent your buttbuddies do.

I'll pretend I haven't read the don't shitpost to the same extent your buttbuddies do part.

I don't want to have to respect moderators (I don't), rule one doesn't make any sense, rule three is arbitrary and unwanted restrictions on posting, you can't force people to post quality nor to have fun, and people should be free to argue with one another.

Well I mean, you argue because it's fun for you, is it not???

I too, have a big confession to make.

Blitzfrog wrote:

Well I mean, you argue because it's fun for you, is it not???

Idk about fun, but from what I've seen I think (s)he only wants to make OT better. But imo, arguments/situations arise if and only if both of these conditions are true:

1. There are conflicting viewpoints, and
2. People don't want to see them, or anything like that.

Anyway, I'm honestly quite in the middle here tbh. If you ask me, Blitzfrog said it perfectly:

Blitzfrog wrote:

So let it burn you before you suffocate in cancer

Let's get down to business, and get seriously real for once.

If Taiga was right about anything, it's this:

[Taiga] wrote:

Flan or other mods are not slaves to close every little shit what you make like this - zero creativity, just random bullshit made by crybaby who cannot work with others.

It took a while to let the truth of the first part of this sink in, more to admit it, and even more to accept all this. IRL here: Fifth grade I was more of a - I wouldn't say crybaby, but a better word would be recalcitrant - look that up if you wanna know what that means but anyway, people kept telling me to be quiet in class when I didn't want to but ye. Even my teacher and parents got ahold of this, and of course, there goes my obstinacy, and now what? Here I am, forgiven but still don't like it when I am criticized, even constructively and want to be alone - think me wanting to be solitary and not independent. I didn't get what Taiga probably meant by the first part, but besides that fact that Flan did lock say what, 79% of my satires, even the longer ones, I think that was meant to be a message like this.


Now on to raps. Let me wrap myself in brutal honesty and the ColdTooth of the Taiga of reality (pls get pun )

ColdTooth wrote:

Your pp is the size of your ego, I got ten times that

The difference is that I have nearly 100% of all my stats achieved with a trackpad and keyboard alone. But my ego is big, I'll be okay with living with that. Changing it however is something else

johnmedina999 wrote:

I have a life to live. I'm actually packing
Boxes, and you're wasting your time
On coming up with second-rate rhymes.

What do you expect john? Most of us are sociopaths/introverts (or so I think). (Really though what did you mean by packing boxes?)

[Taiga] wrote:

Common sense is widely shared by majority of people. That is why it's called common sense. Many people have same feelings about events.

Not denying that, but as I said before, it's common sense and not universal sense.

[Taiga] wrote:

As i said - mods and admins work hard. If you get this position and volunteer to keep specific part of forum / chat clean and moderated, you need to do your work. Your elders expect this from you. You need to spend some of your free time to read every post, decide via common sense applied for best of great majority of community if thread should stay alive and be closed, decide on trublemaker user - lock out from posting / ban? Your decisions then are judged higher, guy will probably complain. It is not only hard work but also stress to do your best. Not everyone is good at this position and for sure, people who claim it, require respect which we all missed here.

99.8% correct here. TBH I would have to moderate forums (GMT) if I became one. People who claim it, deserve respect obs but imo if they don't get, they don't have to really fight back, whoever does that is screwed already the moment they post.

[Taiga] wrote:

Bashing Flan/Stefan/Eph for closing topics was not right. Making fun of them was not right. Your "satires" about Flan were not right. Maybe now you will understand this. It's about respecting others work and free time spent into making it.

Bashing - wait I think I know what you mean. Like that first Satire I made, mentioned on OT!news (but the only thing they got wrong was that I didn't want the mods to delete the thread, not my avatar lol) Probably I was only aware of that now most likely, not before.

Making fun? I guess you can say that's how they saw it, most likely not. Assume the worst is probably what you mean, if any chance of offending, TRASH IT.

Your third part pretty much ties in #1 and #2 if you get it. Enough said

It's about respecting others work and free time spent into making it.

TBH the main idea here.

Endaris wrote:

at some point you can stop to hold up a poor anti-movement

Not only that but forced threads

kai99 wrote:

tend to lack quality/creativity and is just created to force discussions if there can be any.

Utter shit, as Taiga says, should have a >50% lock chance. Imo this includes devastated threads
To let a thread die tho... that's kinda harsh. But what? Nothing you can do if it gets locked. Normally necroposting/bumping (what's the fine line, 6 months?) pushes down popularity in the forums, especially if the subject is not too good, or the quality

Finally, if you want a message to hit home, three things should happen:

1. The receiver MUST UNDERSTAND what the sender is saying.
2. The received must deduce why and understand the info is right.
3. The received must accept the circumstances and take measures to prevent a vicious cycle, even if it will kill them.

I hereby assume full responsibility for what has happened in OT, and will indemnify all other osu!users for the hate and rating. I will not expect my popularity to go beyond its current level. I hereby silence myself and limit myself to reading threads and chatting on discord until June 12, 12:00A PST

Blitzfrog wrote:

Well I mean, you argue because it's fun for you, is it not???

Fun? Sometimes. However, arguing can achieve good purposes. If you don't have arguments, then what you have is a hugbox.

abraker wrote:

Me, Blitzfrog, Kai, and John have all agreed to provide the OT!news as part of an effort to better the content quality.

Are you kidding? You 4 have been some if the worst shitposters on the forum.

B1rd wrote:

Blitzfrog wrote:

Well I mean, you argue because it's fun for you, is it not???

Fun? Sometimes. However, arguing can achieve good purposes. If you don't have arguments, then what you have is a hugbox.

Yea yea, but good arguments like you and daddy's ones are generally not biased. Those are fun. Actually, I enjoy a good argument in Physics and Maths because they can generally be done in pure logic and logic alone. Maybe politics too???

abraker wrote:

According to the OT rules, everything posted on here has no value. You can impress people, but ultimately others will do what they want. You can't stop that on your own. The best you can try to do is get a few people to agree and have an inner circle of people following something that will shift the OT content by a some sort of level. I am not talking about shitty attempts like ALC. That was made on OT and was a joke. What is needed is a private agreement among people. Take the OT!neus discord as an example. Me, Blitzfrog, Kai, and John have all agreed to provide the OT!news as part of an effort to better the content quality. As daunting as it sounds, create a group and work from there.

Value is subjective and this rule may be interpreted as "has no value towards all forum content" - yes, it is pretty much reason why this as OT exist, to keep other subforums clean. But - if some people here see this value, it already gained it in term 'as topic in OT' - that is where people should aim.
I don't want to make a group of people who will focus on making "creative topic / additional content", this whole work is not about that.
All I want to achieve by this is some basic guidelines for everyone to keep OT clean/usefull as much as it is possible and reduce amount of work towards mods for obvious reason - they are also users who sometimes would like to post instead of spending time on reading tons of threads etc.

Aurani wrote:

How to lose any proper credibility 101:

Mention being in a "team" with Blitzfrog, Kai and whoever the fuck John is.

You know, it's like with cheaters - give them a chance to redeem. Since OT is in ruined state, everyone just end up with bad mood, show them there is a way to live together.
Why should I cut myself from all this, when i actually spent time with them in one discord, kinda know their mentality and have chance to speak to it. Well, I give it a chance.

Aurani wrote:

There is no need to force "quality" posts - just remove the really shit ones. As for everyone shitposting, we both know that's just an excuse, as I sure as shit never saw Hika, Railey, Bird, Mara and similar people (there are quite a few more) shitpost to the same extent your buttbuddies do.

I'll pretend I haven't read the OT news part.

OT!News is a step into making creative and catchy threads which lets be honest is next level of shitposting - have value, have creativity, people work on it, shape it, what to say more.
Nobody will force people to make this kind of threads all the time, this could end bad, people could get bored fast and whole effect would be opposite to what i want to achieve but -
- all we can do - and this comes also to "oldfags" - show them the way how to NOT destroy everything around with pointless topics and flood of spam.
This is main reason why I step up with this guidelines.

B1rd wrote:

I don't want to have to respect moderators (I don't), rule one doesn't make any sense, rule three is arbitrary and unwanted restrictions on posting, you can't force people to post quality nor to have fun, and people should be free to argue with one another.

Well moderators and administrators here are like supperiors in work.
You don't need to respect forum users, nobody ask you to do this. But when mod tells you "stop doing that, it's wrong", you should respect this.

ELI5 about rule 1 - funclubs, hbd, "Hi i'm taiga" shitpost doesn't fit any other subforum, this posts have zero value for them so they fit only one place - offtopic. But all this threads can have potential to be discussed or memed at some point and here comes again - offtopic - place where you don't get silenced as fast as in GnR, Dev, Beatmap GD forum for memes and "let's be a kids and play in the sandbox".

Rule 3 is not a restriction, it's an guideline to keep this subforum cleaner. You don't need to follow them but then, don't complain others will have bad eye on you and may tell you that "hey, posting 100 threads about same thing" is bad - because it is bad, it is called flooding with spam. Better make one topic with your spam and either it will ignite some funny discussion or just die than 100 topics which will die without single post in it. You see topic with some healthy discussion - eg. semi-games topics, some "fun math things" (this both are still examples) - don't intentionally come and derail them, it is not good and may trigger people to create another thread, for same purpose just because last one got derailed. It is called "Don't destroy others fun so they don't ruin yours".

Well, about people and fun, if someone comes here to post to not have fun... happens but majority of posters here are people who want to spend fun time.

DJ Enetro wrote:

Here I am, forgiven but still don't like it when I am criticized, even constructively and want to be alone - think me wanting to be solitary and not independent.

Like in real life, you need to learn with criticism, it is mandatory skill to survive. As fast as you learn to answer for it in proper way, your life will be easier. Proper way, I mean, use arguments in calm discussion without shouting on each other. It is hard but also - It gives you massive advantage in discussions.

DJ Enetro wrote:

To let a thread die tho... that's kinda harsh. But what? Nothing you can do if it gets locked.

Well, now everyone have a test - do you let threads die or will you bump this utter shit and continue posting nothing-worth-comments there?
Sole idea of letting threads die is to not force mods to lock them. Thread doesn't need to be locked to die naturally. It's all about people to not bump them. Recognize what is utter shit and let it die, just leave.

DaddyCoolVipper wrote:

abraker wrote:

Me, Blitzfrog, Kai, and John have all agreed to provide the OT!news as part of an effort to better the content quality.

Are you kidding? You 4 have been some if the worst shitposters on the forum.

And they can turn into someone who will at some point surpass oldfags and as someone said - lead "new meta" into right way of not flooding this subforum with spam but providing content to have fun with. Someone just needs to give them a helpfull hand but...
They need to listen also. But i have faith, as far as mods, admins and most people lost it, I still have my faith.

Ok Taiga, I know where you are getting at, and it's good

But you see, we have to approach this differently, it's a psychological factor

Honestly in my short 17 years life I have never seen anyone been changed by getting pointed fingers. Kinda need to ease them into it.

So how do you do this?

Feedbacks.

First off, establish a culture of quality threads, whereby majority of people posts quality.(This is already changing tbh, the amount if quality is phenomenal)
Next, no attention given to trash threads, essentially an invisible lock.
When you combine these 2 things, guess what's gonna happen? Exactly what you wanted (Classical Conditioning)

As for defining quality?? I suggest not defining such arbitrary things and rather just make quality yourself. Humans are more of a pattern recogniser than a step by step logic machine. If you show them the quality posts, it will latch, people will instinctively start doing the same quality in order to fit the culture. (Social Compliance)

hey ok lets try something

every person gets 1 thread a day they can make. just one. if you post any more than 1, it gets wastelanded as soon as someone notices. you can post in as many other threads as you like, but you can only make one

and we'll take this retroactively so roshan effectively can't post for about three years except in other people's threads, same with canadian baka and luquanted. sound good?

Blitzfrog wrote:

So how do you do this?

Feedbacks.

First off, establish a culture of quality threads, whereby majority of people posts quality.(This is already changing tbh, the amount if quality is phenomenal)
Next, no attention given to trash threads, essentially an invisible lock.
When you combine these 2 things, guess what's gonna happen? Exactly what you wanted (Classical Conditioning)

Now why does this sound very familiar...

Blitzfrog wrote:

I suggest not defining such arbitrary things and rather just make quality yourself.

Well this isn't going to work. The reason why I post so little here is because I have so little to say, and trying to encourage this behaviour is going to do nothing still.

Ephemeral wrote:

every person gets 1 thread a day they can make. just one. if you post any more than 1, it gets wastelanded as soon as someone notices. you can post in as many other threads as you like, but you can only make one

This sounds good.

Ephemeral wrote:

and we'll take this retroactively so roshan effectively can't post for about three years except in other people's threads, same with canadian baka and luquanted. sound good?

I can agree with this too. The OT!witter thread would be a good place for this sort of stuff, imo.

I appreciate Ephemeral's idea here

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