VINXIS wrote:

gratz on bn ktgst e r 1!!11!1

Lavender wrote:

wars never change

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

Why are those sliders 02:19:881 (2) - 02:25:300 (3) - 02:26:074 (2) - 02:26:848 (4) - 03:53:558 (4) - 04:05:945 (4) - 04:11:365 (2) - 04:16:784 (3,2,4) - 05:07:881 (3) - 05:25:687 (2) - 05:31:106 (3,2,4) - on the blue tick instead of making them start on those places 02:19:881 (2) - and putting a circle after, would make so much more sense and be much more playable. (My personal opinion, this just doesn't fit in my opinion) because guitar track is the one i wanna follow, which has more tension than vocal.

00:56:655 (3) - CTRL- G would do wonders. no.

01:23:074 (4,5) - This feels empty compared to your other sections like this. You usually do more than this especially when vocals go like this, I would fill it with more clickable notes. i usually do different rhythm for different part, here as well.



03:47:461 (4,1) - This is not good transition, the movement required is too sharp, I recommend making some curve to make this easier, it's already fast enough so don't make it this hard to actually hit this. 03:50:461 (4,5,1) - THis is a very nice transition, suggesting something like that. no, sharp movements here is better.

03:55:590 (1,2,3) - Feels like this part is just totally switching polarity and the 1st slider should be changed into smaller notes, this doesn't play well. anti-flow matches the guitar here, and this plays very well.

Too many bets ignored in this slider and then going for fast transition into note-reverse slider + 4 notes doesn't work, this focuses on too much stuff instead of following the previous ideas of how those sections were played. Also going into 03:56:558 (1,2,3,4) - this spacing is not the way it should be, this section and pattern doesn't work well, either stick with the 03:56:558 (1,2,3,4) - idea of doing the pattern this way rhytmically or slower like the slider. the pattern's spacing is similar to the value all kiai showed, and the pattern itself worked well in following vocal.

I could argue that 03:59:848 (4,1) - this section is not good transitioned either but I guess by not following the slider perfectly it's okay, up to you though, I would change this a bit. similar to replay as the one above.

04:47:074 (2,1,2) - Where did those cool doubles go? This was really cool and I don't know why this is removed and changed to a slider but it was very cool with the doubles, I'd like to see that back. you seems like COMPLETELY not be clearly aware of the map's pattern system: 00:31:301 (2,3,4,1,2) - and 01:41:268 (2,1,2) - , which you think this should follow consistantly? idk what you've focused on but you may check the map more carefully before the post.


TBC busy atm

CelegaS wrote:

So hard to play those slider.
Nice job!

And why ar9.5 q_q too fast for some of the sliders' tracks are a bit overlapped, it's better to give higher ar to make the playing board more clearly.

CelegaS wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Standard_Ranking_Criteria

Every slider must have a clear and visible path to follow from start to end. Sliders which overlap themselves in a way that makes any section unreadable or ambiguous (including "burai sliders") cannot be used. This is so that no slider has an appearance that is confusing or impossible for the player to read. Additionally, the slider borders must never be covered up from the slider being packed in too tightly. However, sliders that cross over themselves are fine as long as the borders are clearly visible.

Those sliders 04:58:881 (1) and 05:01:977 (1) and 05:08:171 (1) and 05:11:268 (1) and 05:14:364 (1) and 05:20:558 (1) seems questionnable about this rule. As i don't have mutch experience as mapper/modder i don't know if it's fine. you may find out what's questionable if you can. (do i need to reply this? i really don't know... )

DJ Lucky wrote:

I really like this map a lot but I feel like some of the sliders are obviously questionable and almost want to say unreadable which I understand it nice to be creative but I feel like you could do that without making this 05:01:977 (1) - or this 05:11:268 (1) -

It is mainly near the end where I see these sliders being too much

I'm not talking about how fast it is since there absolutely nothing wrong with that but the way the slider is shape can easily confused players and you could fix that problem without ruin the creativeness in this map.

You could do something like this part 05:36:042 (1) - for those mention sliders and some similar since this is much easier to read and still creative for the map.

If i'm not mistaken wasn't there a rule about unreadable sliders somewhere? I pretty sure there is but i'm too lazy to search.

Overall I really want to see this rank and always love your maps well, i just tell you that no slider in this map is unreadable.

EDIT: Shit grammar is shit.

ktgster wrote:

05:11:268 (1) - this is the hardest slider to read in the map, potentially unrankable due to not being able to see a clear sliderpath due to the loop starting at the slider. This one in particular focues most of the sliderpath in the top-left area and since it is so cluttered, the player wouldn't know where to go regardless of snaking slider or not. This slider in particular I feel needs a redesign instead.
the path is clear to read, there's no any other choice of direction after hitting that slider's head.

04:29:590 (2) - are you sure these are snapped properly? I'm hearing the slider end earlier than what you have here i'm sure they are 1/3 ticks.
05:43:912 (2) - ^

Few things that aren't necessary unrankable, but would like an explanation for.

Sections between the high SV sliders such as 01:54:623 - 01:56:171 -or 02:07:010 - 02:08:558 - seem a bit random. A lot of it has to do with the 1/4 sliders which seem to try to fit to the instrumentals in the background. Why didn't you map to the vocals similar to the last kiai instead. A lot of the main focus is on the vocalist so it seems strange to bother mapping the instruments in the background. it's more strange to just focus on only vocal track, and it's common to shift objects' rhythm from one to another, depending one which track the mapper wanna express or imphasize.
so, why i need to map the vocals similar to the last kiai instead?

04:33:719 - 04:46:493 - Low spacing and high sv's are not a good match for anyone. Why was it designed like this instead of using a much higher spacing to accommodate the high SV's in this kiai sections. low spacing and high sv's are perfect good match for me, so they are not "not good match for anyone" now. i can find much more people similar to me, so that's not a good reason here 1stly.
from mapping view, high sv with low spacing is a really common idea of mapping nowadays, it plays really good when the spacing is not that trick, not that similar to this map ofc thou.

Makan1 wrote:

witth that being said:

05:01:977 (1) - for a first time playing this. no clue. impossible to follow. the twist and turns and circular pathing makes it very confusing. nothing is confusing here, you can read the slider straightly, sightly and instantly.

05:11:268 (1) - this one is pushing it heavily. even looking at a still image of it is difficult to deduct the immediate pathing, let alone playing it. not a question of reading sliders faster or keeping up with SV, this one in particular is far far far too confusing. I dont understand how this got past. i don't understand how this can not get past as well.

I dont mind 99% of HW maps, I like every single style of mapping but I highly question the person who let this map through. If its not breaking the rules I posted above, then it's really really pushing it (in a negative direction)

Zetera wrote:

Additionally to Makan1's post:

See, I stated those things because I perceived them as unfitting. I don't know whether things are okay because you see them as okay, but I am 100% certain that when multiple individuals state that something's wrong, you may want to question your arguments. Imagine you are a chef, liking their own food. If their customers say it tastes funny, the food is not good, even though the chef sees or tastes it as nice. Weird comparison, I know. i don't know why you are 100% certain that when multiple individuals state that something's wrong, but can't point it out.

Also, you misunderstood one of my statements. Yes, adding sliderticks makes the sliders even harder. What I said is that having this slidertick rate is not enough to make this map playable enough. Therefore, the slider shapes should be slightly more intuitive to avoid any kind of sliderbreak. ok, but i won't agree that slider shapes should avoid sliderbreak, and they are totally playable in it's current state.

To sum this up: I don't think calling a person a weak player is enough of a counter argument. Mapping is about making maps accessible for most players while stressing a song as well as possible, at least for me. Since this has been ignored for months now, I can accept the fact that you don't want to change anything about those sliders. I still highly recommend doing so though. There are better ways of preserving the same ideas that you bring up in this map in a more intuitive way than now.
i called no one weak player, players will become true weak players from the moment they think they really are by themselves.
i will never agree that proper maps should be accessible for most players. maps should express the music ofc, and meanwhile, extra level maps are made for pro players.
i will change things when you find exact issues, i'm looking forward it if you really can do that.

Hollow Wings wrote:

Makan1 wrote:

witth that being said:

05:01:977 (1) - for a first time playing this. no clue. impossible to follow. the twist and turns and circular pathing makes it very confusing. nothing is confusing here, you can read the slider straightly, sightly and instantly.

05:11:268 (1) - this one is pushing it heavily. even looking at a still image of it is difficult to deduct the immediate pathing, let alone playing it. not a question of reading sliders faster or keeping up with SV, this one in particular is far far far too confusing. I dont understand how this got past. i don't understand how this can not get past as well.

I dont mind 99% of HW maps, I like every single style of mapping but I highly question the person who let this map through. If its not breaking the rules I posted above, then it's really really pushing it (in a negative direction)

phaZ wrote:

felt pretty comfortable wit the slider paths, even though they are a bit tricky. anyway, people like hardly complain about some mixed gimmiky stack circle-jump pattern. they will call it "hard, but challenging". however when its a slider people cry like babys lol?

still i gotta say that using long sliders on blue ticks just to catch the synth/guitar (while keeping that vocal feeling by using a slider) is just so weird. the rhythm felt pretty messy because of that. im not gonna complain too hard as youre consistent with that and its nothing that should stop it from being ranked imo. if people dont like this rhythm-translation/-interpretation and think it is shit theyll can just rate the map however they want

Kayla wrote:

i dont even have anything constructive to say. get back to reality. there is no meaning to anything a tall. these sliders are all memory, like flashlight. its all copy paste repetitive slider patterns with tweaks and bumps to mess you up with high slider velocity. its a sustained note and you make such horrible patterns? the only fun parts are the stacks and that feels repetitive and copy paste too. its lazy. this is just bad. probably the worst map hollow wings has ever made. i have no idea why this is even being modded. just say get a mapper who actually cares about playability to map it and we can enjoy the song instead of this stupid difficulty mapping. im so tired of this era of mapping. i wish it was 2013 again.

</rant>

edit: not replying to anyone who replies. expect just flame. im out. nothing will change or get done. mapper is always right and this is just the ramblings of a 'weak player'.

Kayla wrote:

its lazy.

_DT3 wrote:

Hmm, I actually like this map tbh, and I have nothing against HW maps. But just one question then I'll be satisfied cause I'm eager to know:
Why does the map have so many readability diff spikes unlike the music which should more rather be mapped with patterns focused more on technical skill?

F1r3tar wrote:

_DT3 wrote:

Hmm, I actually like this map tbh, and I have nothing against HW maps. But just one question then I'll be satisfied cause I'm eager to know:
Why does the map have so many readability diff spikes unlike the music which should more rather be mapped with patterns focused more on technical skill?

Because HW loves to experiment with new ways of gameplay.

RyoKazuka wrote:

every HW maps must have dramas

btw Congrats on ranking, HW !

RyoKazuka wrote:

every HW maps must have dramas

btw Congrats on ranking, HW !

Bara- wrote:

This map is a masterpiece

Bara- wrote:

This map is a masterpiece

Bara- wrote:

This map is a masterpiece

Endaris wrote:

Considering that most of the sliderspecific shapes have no immediately intended gameplayvalue but a lot of visual value and as some people said also the "fast sliderballmovement matching the song" there is no inherent reason to think that the amount of sliderticks affects the idea of this map in any way.#
Given how penible HW is I don't think that this would've been missed.

Then again, it's positive that this got ranked and also very positive that this stayed in WIP for ages considering its popularity (for one or the other reason).