I care for the quality of this map more than its rankability, and I still believe you should put a bit more work into this map, but well it's your set in the end. I never raised aesthetics or playability as an issue though, so not sure why you always bring these points up in your arguments. Rhythm placement is the critical issue here, which I still believe makes this set unfitting for rank as of now.Shad0w1and wrote:
I know it is not a creative map to many people's standard, however, my idea was very clear, also I did many test plays and according to the test player they could catch my flow with these "werid" sliders, and that is why I believe this map should be able to get ranked. aesthetics is a very weird term, because I truly believe I made a great flow with sliders, many player agree to me. however, some mappers disagree to my because in the editor it does not look that pretty. My response is: the map is for play, for me it is pretty.Pho wrote:
Hi there Shad0w1and o/ Before seeing this map being pushed through the ranked section, I have some quality concerns about the highest difficulty of this set:
[Ultra]It is fine if the snapping overwrite isn't too noticeable or the ideal snapping would make it hard to play, but here it certainly is not because the stream doesn't follow a thing in the song. You can go with 1/2 ticks for the drums here, or 3/4 to give notion to the piano sweeps (see Delis' set), but the current rhythm is no great solution.
- The map seems like it tries to be special in certain ways, but many parts ended up being either overdone or not well-thought out for the song: I do not think so, and I am not trying to be special on mapping, in this map I was trying to present the strong vocal and instruments with various slider shapes. I was also using these sliders to control the flow of the diff, so most point on your mod are already invalid.
Just saying it now since you always raise that point again in your reply: I have no complaints about your aesthetics and slidershapes at all, this one's somewhat subjective anyway. The actual issue is in how you use extended sliders in this map in general. A map flowing and playing well doesn't mean a thing if your rhythm placement doesn't work out with the song. I explained it further below.- 00:00:074 - to 00:08:916 - Starting right at the beginning, the 1/2 singletaps are too much compared to what is actually offered in the song at this point, about 50% of the taps land on weak, barely-emphasized snare sounds (red ticks).
Keep in mind that the tempo of the song is already pretty high, 1/2 sliders would be more fitting to the intensity of the song for the intro. What really annoys me however are the triples (00:01:179 (8,9,1) - , 00:02:442 (8,9,1) - etc.) at the beginning that are way too overspaced. It'd be less forced to play if you just stack them instead. It is not over spaced compare to the latter section. In fact, with out HT, this part is the only part I could play and FC. This diff was designed as an Ultra since beginnning, it is expected to be much harder compare to Lami's Extra
The issue here is that this part is too motion-intense compared to how quiet this part of the song is. While the singletaps are acceptable for an Extra since you also spaced them fairly low and with DS, the spaced triples are questionable since they add too much tempo in this section and should be stacked or at least lower-spaced to fit the quietness in the intro. Also try not to use Ultra as a high-end difficulty as an excuse to make harder patterns, it's not a valid one and I am more concerned about how your patterns reflect the song than how difficult it is actually to play.- Extended sliders (3/4 sliders) are overused / inproperly used in this map. It is fine to a certain extent to give notion to strong or special notes in the track, using too many of them usually results in maps with wonky rhythms that are most of the time unnatural and forced to play:
This point is not valid as I explained at the beginning, you fail to understand my idea for this diff, it is not for people to single tap on these drum beats at the kiai, although I know that will be easier, however, when I design this diff I was trying to keep the constant flow and motion pressure on the player, because the song has a very strong background music, and vocal, by only give 1/2 single tap I think it will be way too mindless to follow the drum beats, which I did in my lower diffs. Yes, when I map a song for 3 times, I will not try to use exactly the same rhythm choice for Hyper/Another/Ultra. Also, because I added strong HS additions on the slider heads, the HS in the tail is not a problem according to the test plays and my self tests with HT
- 00:11:126 (1) - Doesn't emphasize anything specific in the song and thus should be cropped to 1/2. Similar occasions where this happens:
00:18:705 (1) - 00:21:547 (1) - 00:22:810 (1) - 00:23:442 (4) - 00:24:074 (1) - 00:38:600 (4) - 01:37:968 (1) - etc.
00:26:600 (1) - The whole slider pattern here at 00:25:968 (1,2,1) - feels weird as well since you weren't focussing on vocals after 00:21:547 - . Make clear what exactly you follow with your rhythm here.
00:46:179 (1,2,1) - It seemingly follows the vocals, but 00:44:284 (1,1,1) - previous sliders clearly follow the e-guitar, which makes rhythm pretty confusing here. Ending 00:46:179 (1) - on 00:46:652 - instead would make it clearer.- 00:12:547 (1,2) - Feels too forced and would be better if you swap these with only a slider instead. Same goes to:
00:34:179 (1,2) - 00:46:810 (1,2) -
Constant flow and motion pressure only makes sense if the song had about the same intensity throughout it's whole length. And this song certainly is not constant, it has ups and downs. The problem lies in how you utilize extended and buzzsliders for Ultra.
Maybe I was too inprecise, so here's a concrete example:
00:56:916 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - If I were to compare the kiais of Ultra to the ones in your Insane difficulty, the latter are actually fine because it is clear what exactly you want to focus on with the extended sliders - the vocals, since that is also what is the most noticeable layer in this section. Then in Ultra, you decided to make motion-heavy extended slider/ 1/4 sliderjumps with focus on the instruments/e-guitar in the background - which are considerably weaker than the vocal. And you did this for around 50% of the map. This is what I mean when I said some of those patterns are overdone, the background music isn't that intense to make such motion-heavy patterns.
And I already mentioned one of these above at 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - , which should be revised again, because focus lies on drums from 01:14:600 - to 01:17:126 - and should be emphasized with circleclicks, so I'm irritated why you suddenly decided to put in 1/4 sliders after 01:15:547 - (starting those at 01:15:863 - makes more sense tbh). Singletapping to drums here might sound like it's a generic thing to do here mapping-wise, and yea it actually is. But it makes more sense in relation to the music instead of putting 1/4 sliders in places where they don't fit.- 00:31:179 (1,2,3) - This feels pretty forced if it's just for the sake of the vocals since those aren't that strong to warrant buzz sliderjumps. Either way worked, I do not think current got any problems
- 00:41:600 - There's a lack of differentiation towards the previous section of the music. Song gets less intense, but you're still spacing /positioning objects high, the same way as before. uhmmmm... I can't agree to you.... as I placed the green lines before I started mapping.... Ipersonally feel these two sections got the same intensity....
It's pretty noticeable if you compare the note density of the background instruments of this part to the previous part.- 00:51:863 - Pretty sad about this since a build-up would've been nice here. Jumping right into a vertical jumps section isn't the greatest idea, ramping up spacing slowly would've been more fitting to the song. In general, try to balance out the difficulty according to different sections of a song. again I think either way worked tho xc.... the build up was like since the beginning tho... this whole diff was kinda jumpy, so I think current patterns fit the theme tho .....
I mean for 00:51:863 - to 00:55:652 - specifically, since vocals raise up 00:51:863 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - here so you could ramp up the spacing for this pattern.- 00:56:916 (1,2) - Two major problems I see with the kiai time here:
to me for this song, sadly there is no clear way I could make a diverse rhythm choice. I was very sad about it when I mapped to this part, because the main rhythm itself was not the diverse, as you can see in all of my diffs the kiai was using the repetitive rhythm, I tested very hard and the slider shape thing come to my mind, I spend more than 10 hours to just shape these sliders to make them look good to my aesthetics, also I try to shaped sliders to control the flow so targeted players will be able to catch my"train" as you said.
- 1. Overdoing sliders. Now I get that sliders are funnier and entertaining to play, but if it doesn't correlate with the song there's no sense in doing so. The 1/4 sliders in particular for the kiai, with 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - being a prime example of overdoing patterns. There are others following like 01:27:547 (1,2,1,2) -
- 2. Repetition. There's no place for rhythm variation here since you decided to make a big slidertrain here, which doesn't reflect the song well at all. It's seven times the same rhythm in a row starting from 00:58:179 - (8 times actually, 00:56:916 (1,2) - should be a single slider only if i were to follow your current logic), which is pretty bland, don't you think?
I suppose the point about repetition isn't that much of an issue, and yes you did the same in the lower difficulties where it actually worked out fine because the rhythms were fine. In Ultra it doesn't work out well as I've already explained above. Again, playability is not the issue here, your rhythm placement is.- 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5) - Doesn't follow anything properly and the spacing on the ministream feels really huge. this one is a commonly used technic to use the stream to overwrite the piano sweeps, because make it a hold for buzz slider will be too easy for this diff and for its strong sound, but do smt like ctb snap it to 1/12 will also be a over kill, therefore current solution is the best for me.
Sorry if I sound blunt, but this map doesn't look well executed to me at all. Many concepts you used in this map lack proper application which I explained above, and this seems to need more work before being ranked imo. Other peoples opinion's matter ofc, so it might be good to ask around. Anyways, good luck with the set o/