Yasaija
Yasaija 714 wrote:
From Queue
[General]
- I think that I do not need the title TV size removed
- Let's unify the end of songs for Difficulty other than GD adjusted so it would be this way.
01:29:073 - or 01:28:551 -
[Easy]Good luck! thanks for mod!
- 00:00:378 (1) - remove clap
Because the sound of 00:01:421 (1) - is more conspicuous sure, done- 00:04:812 - 00:05:073 - remove finish
The sound of finish only sounds first there's actual cymbal crashes in the song that i want to emphasize here with the hs.- 00:08:986 - 00:09:247 - ^
- 00:28:030 (4) - Additions Normal whistle
I can only hear the sound of a Normal whistle right, done!- 00:45:247 - Add finish added to all difs
- 01:25:943 (1) - remove NC
- 01:26:986 (2) - Why not attach NC?
00:18:117 (1) - Same as the first fixed both- 01:28:029 (3) - ^
oh my goodness there goes 4 hours thank you for your time, means a lot!Mykaterasu wrote:
this wall of text terrifies me myka[Easy][Counter Extra]
- 00:04:551 (4,4) - Repeating sliders this short aren't always the best idea in an Easy because the actual rhythm is very ambiguous for a beginner to read. Going for a 2/1 slider might be better. this is the only place i use them anyways, so i'll just change it.
- 00:12:899 (4,1) - Going against flow is very taboo in lower difficulties without a very explicit reason like some sort of very special sound, which is definitely not present here. downbeats can be justifiable IMO, i dont want extremely monotonous gameplay of just constant circular flow with no clear changes, so i try to make them where i can. having some diversity like this keeps the gameplay somewhat interesting, as much as an easy can be i suppose.
- 00:28:030 (4) - You can actually accentuate the whistle here by just putting removing this. Silence acts as a very good emphasis tool in lower diffs. i like that, sure
- 00:36:899 (1,2,3) - I love how you're using the hard-points to express the tone change, but at 00:40:030 (4) - the vocals that are sung here aren't under the same filter as the previous three. I would consider using just a normal curved slider instead of a hard-point slider. Same goes for 00:44:204 (4) - . i like that you see it that way, but it wasn't necessarily for that. this is a really unique part of the song and i wanted something different in slider shapes to emphasize that.
- 00:53:073 (2) - Why the one of a kind slidershape here? What are you emphasising here. are wavies necessarily that unique? i felt they were generic enough like curved/slider ones so that i could incorporate them just fine.
- 01:16:551 (4) - I'm usually ok with shapes like these, but I'm against this use here because the hardpoint isn't used for any effect. Nothing special happens here 01:17:073 - , it's all just the same note held over. A circular slider would be more appropriate. circle slider in this corner of the playfield is not gonna be really easy to incorporate. i made this purposely this way since it's a longer held out rhythm and it's a way to make the rhythm a little more followable. I made the point a little less sharp if it makes a difference.
- 01:21:769 (4,1) - The difference in curvature is stark and very noticeable. Please make them match. you do realize these are copy pasted, right? xd
I have to be real with you here. Saying this gimmick is used "consistantly" is a stretch. The practicality and understanding of the gimmick is far from appropriate. Simply put, I feel like you've built this map with the gimmick in mind as opposed to building the map for the gimmick. Maps should expose, develop and conclude all themes and that includes gimmicks. (Yes, I know it's recapitulation, sue me for the misrepresentation of sonata form). It's almost like you've forgone these stages in place of just putting the gimmick in a map that doesn't support it. I'll elaborate. Welcome to wall of text land. I can't format this like a normal list. I'm sorry. I think you misunderstood my gimmick overall with this map. I never mentioned mapping anything "consistantly" with this difficulty, more so using some false consistency in some parts THEN breaking it, as to represent the counter theme.
> Exposition
A gimmick needs to be introduced in an intuitive and fair way. A player will not know what the gimmick is before the map begins. It is the job of the mapper to slowly include the themes of a gimmick in a way that communicates that the map is abnormal, and that the player will look out for the themes displayed here.
I'm sure you're aware of the GRANRODEO - Can Do (TV Size) Mapset. Look at the beginning of the selected difficulty in particular, which has the same gimmick as your map. A circle into a neat stack, followed by simple rhythms of overlapping 1/2 sliders. Minimal movement, and low rhythm intensity. This says "You're playing a map that is hard to read. Have something that is considered slightly abnormal but still readable." On your map, it dives straight into a pattern of just 1/2 circles 00:00:378 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Which is pretty much as rhythmically intensive you can get on this map. Of course it's supposed to be hard, but no player is prepared for that at the very beginning of the map. If it were 4 overlapped 1/2 sliders, it would be more acceptable. 00:01:421 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - These patterns are more applicable for an exposition, but the first circles just aren't appropriate, end of. You're not considering the implications of the music though. Can Do has a calm intro in respect to the rest of the song, and so perhaps Monstrata chose to make it easier to read in that sense, and so an exposition of that sort is more fitting. However, in this map, immediately we're starting with intense drums and a guitar. I'm mapping specifically to the music's intensity - by trying to simplify these patterns and intense rhythms just for introducing it it sort of kills how I gauge the intensity throughout, if that makes sense. I can't just force an introduction to a concept, above all I want the intensity and difficulty to fit the song. Not to mention, relatively speaking, the 1/2 circles are really not that hard to read.
> Development
A gimmick needs to be used in multiple interesting ways and multiple times to take root as the main theme. It should be explored and evolve in an intuitive way, while still being playable and enjoyable. The development of these themes therefore needs to be congruent and comprehensive.
You said in your explanation that flow was one of the things that you experimented with here, but honestly that's just not the case. If you change the map's AR to something like 9.5 or higher to remove the reading gimmick and play it, the map has pretty much exclusively generic flow save a couple instances closer to the end. Take the same diff mentioned earlier from monstrata's set and give it the same treatment, and it's still abnormal. The reason is because your map doesn't really develop. The theme of "sometimes the circles, sliderends or sliderheads overlap previous or future circles, sliderends or sliderheads" is throughout and usually ends up in creating circular flow one way or another. You don't experiment with stacked circles, you break your own patterns, you make patterns and then forget them. The result just ends up looking messy. And bam, there, you found the real gimmick in the difficulty. It's meant to represent the misleading flow by making you trust it, then countering what I was implying with it and changing it. I know I didn't implicate this well however, which I will elaborate on in my final response.The only consistent aspect of this map is the the flowing rotated patterns 00:10:291 (3,4) - 00:11:334 (4,5) - 00:12:377 (3,4) - etc...
- 00:04:551 (1,2,3) - Pattern revolves around stacking a slider end over a previous slider head. 00:05:334 (4) - Pattern broken. The guitar changes notes and the song's intensity changes, which is what I wanted to represent here. Of course, it can be done better, which I'll again elaborate on here in a minute.
- 00:08:725 (1,2,3,4) - Same rhythm pattern as before - revolves around stacking slider ends over previous slider ends instead for some reason. Pattern remains unbroken. Which is an inconsistency I need to fix in respect to my last point, and will.
- 00:27:769 (1,1) - 00:27:769 (1,1) - doesn't stack or do anything related to the theme. And if this sliderart is supposed to be a whistle, the shape is a little... off. It's not instantly recognisable as one. This applies to all the diffs that has this shape. See, that's the thing - you mention using unique play and such to emphasize something different, which is what I'm doing here.
- 00:11:856 (1,2) - we don't see a stack pattern with this rhythm again... ever. Which was a lousy fix on my part to a mod, since it's really hard to make fixes with a map based on something like this.
- 00:10:291 (3,4) - 4 beats away from each other. Nice a bit of repetition in the slider shape and positioning exactly 1 measure away from each other. This could be interesting... 00:17:464 (4,1) - Wait hold on now it's 1 1/2 beats away from each other, why did they get closer together? Wow, maybe the "exactly overlapping 1/2 slider" theme is going to develop by creeping closer and closer together as the song ramps up for the chorus... Except no. We never see it again. Not too sure what you mean here, honestly. Beats away? The rhythm is just 1/2 spam and the spacing is relatively consistent throughout.
00:35:334 (3,4) - Oh cool so you are using stacked circles as a theme... only once in the entire map... mistake
If they're the only thing that the map has throughout, doesn't that make good flow a theme instead of abnormal flow? Do you get my point yet? This is where I take some issue with your mod. I'm not sure if you mis-read the description for this difficulty on accident, but a lot of this wouldn't be an issue if the gimmick I was going for was more clear from the beginning - comfortable flow to trick you into playing it normally, then using misleading wide angled jumps to emphasize intense points and show the counter fighting style from the anime in my map. And again, I know I didn't represent it too well, which I will bring up later.
> Conclusion
For the climax of the song, you want to bring together the very best of your experimentation with your theme. Drive the gimmick home with the most enjoyable, attractive or just interesting pattern you've made and show people that this gimmick you've made isn't just for show, this style of mapping can be fun and taken seriously.And with all of these, my issue was I hadn't established a clear idea to carry through the difficulty from the beginning. My nature of mapping this was very experimental to begin with, and I had no intentions of ranking it, especially this difficulty being the most rushed. With that, I'm going to say I'll re-map this with some more consistent overall themes in mind. However, I'm going to stick with that consistent flow unless I need emphasis in which case I will make it uncomfortable, as to suggest for the "counter" difficulty while still limiting readability with AR and such. I'll keep some things you mentioned in mind while re-mapping this.
- 00:49:421 (1,2,3) - Ok. We've got rotational flow now. I repeat my flow statement earlier, but maybe this is a section where 120 degree rotational flow is really important. In that instance I'd expect a lot of sliders to be arranged like this. 00:50:204 (4,1) - and we broke it already, we don't return to anything vastly similar to rotational flow until 00:58:812 (1) - ...
- Speaking of 00:58:812 (1) - Oh look, a new theme a whole minute in. This 120 degree overlapping pattern's really pretty, I wanna see more of it. Except here 01:00:899 (1,2,3) - it's applied to a different rhythm... I can understand it, but you didn't even try to make them overlap in a similar way when compared to last time. 01:06:117 (1,2,3) - And now it's back to the rhythm shown in the exposition and repeated here 01:10:291 (1,2,3,4) - . So shouldn't all the other rhythms with sliders be circular in shape then? I'm confused. Is this a visual theme or just a thing you threw in.
- Yet another new theme 01:05:073 (1,2) - one minute in? This stack type hasn't been used before, and it's in the most intense section of the piece. After that it keeps happening 01:07:421 (2,3) - , 01:11:595 (2,3) - . Why is it here if you haven't done this jump distance and visual theme before?
- 00:54:117 (3) - Why doesn't the sliderend stack here? or 00:55:160 (3) - or 00:56:204 (3) - ? I thought overlapping was a part of your theme.
- 00:56:204 (3) - Oh man using red anchors over slider-ends is an interesting topic except oh wait it's one of a kind again.
[Outfighter Extra]
Same gimmick speech as above, but this one is generally more salvageable so it gets a real mod this time.
Just know that the more you abuse short sliders, the less impact you give them. Because of that, a quick list of short sliders that I believe should be definitely converted into circles for contrast. Same response to the speech, and the point is to have that less impact, since I want them to be something fast and consistent throughout. These are all a bit iffy to me since I can't really keep my gimmick if I lose intensity here by replacing them with circles, and the sudden momentum stops just feel really awkward.And then the real mod
- 00:13:682 (5,6) -
- 00:17:204 (2) -
- 00:17:986 (3) -
- 00:36:247 (2,2,2) -
- 00:57:638 (5) -
- 01:05:725 (2,4) -
- 01:07:812 (4,5,6) - either 4 and 6 together or just 5. Emphasise the yeah! of the background voices or the vocals.
- 01:10:160 (6) - i'll agree to this one, it fits nicer.
- 01:22:551 (5,6) - or just 6
Really helped with this diff a ton, thanks!
- 00:15:508 (3,4,1) - You put a finish on 1 so you want it to be emphasised, but your spacing says otherwise. Move 1 further down. moved 4 further up instead a bit and 3 closer in, i think the flow is good enough emphasis.
- 00:18:899 (5) - I don't think this slider shape supports the sound it's playing. It could just be a straight slider entering the centre of the circle. I disagree, the vocals have almost a "haiTAII" sound here, and so I'd like the bigger circle to just be a faster rendition of the slider before.
- 00:19:682 (1,1,1) - I'd emphasise these by stacking or distance snapping them to a really low value. moved elsewhere
- 00:20:595 (3,4,1) - 3 to 4 is same distance as 4 to 1. I'd make 1 slightly further away. This happens at 00:24:769 (2,3,4) - and 00:28:943 (3,4,5) - and 00:31:030 (2,3,1) - 00:33:117 (2,3,1) - 00:35:204 (2,3,1) - except worse. Take care with push rhythms like this. i'm not gonna slight overlap and honestly there's no real way to fix this without drastically changing spacing, i really don't think it's too big of an issue.
- 00:27:247 (8) - should be a repeating slider to emphasise the rhythm of the vocals. this slider itself is used to emphasize the vocals, i dont want a repeat since the drum intensity is still strong.
- 00:28:030 (1) - I'd definitely make this slider slower. sure i guezz
- 00:33:638 (1) - This slider shape isn't really expressing anything important. A push rhythm isn't something that should deserve a whole new slider shape - especially one this different compared to your other shapes. ya think? it incorporates just fine with this section here, where it forms a circle and just has another curve like that flipped. if anything it's super generic for this section.
- 00:37:421 (3,3,3) - These shapes should all be similar. Why is the last one different? Same comment about this slider 00:43:682 (3) - . consistenter'd
- 00:40:030 (1) - Even though this is extended for effect, you're still missing the sound 00:40:291 - here which is pretty crucial. Similarly, you could make 00:40:421 (2) - end on 00:40:682 - this sound and put a circle 00:40:812 - here. Applies to 00:44:204 (1,2) - too. agree, changed these.
- 00:41:595 (3,3,3) - Also with these sliders, the hard-points on these sliders just don't do it for me. The sound is a very constant but aggressive tone. There's no reason to represent this with a red anchor halfway through. used my same smooth slider design from before.
- 00:45:638 (3) - Slider shape comment again. ye
- 00:47:073 (5) - Slider shape is inappropriate, but can be different to all the others. Pick a different shape and see how it feels. i don't see anything wrong with it, it represents vocal intensity change and i don't feel the need to make it something else, it looks fine.
- 00:50:856 (3,4,1) - This pattern seems more appropriate for the counter extra does it not? not really, but i never realized how inconsistent this was with my next instance of this rhythm so i got rid of this entirely.
- 00:53:595 (1,2,1) - I feel like these sliders don't actually require that much movement, they end up feeling a little tame for what they're expressing. This is especially true since you follow it up with the fast movement of the jumps to and from 00:54:508 (2) - this circle. It's like the wrong thing is getting emphasised. Same for the 2 next repeats 00:54:638 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - afterwards. did feel weak in gameplay, i adjusted this section a lot, really happy with changing this, thank you so much!
- 00:57:769 (1) - There's that slidershape again. It's just not doing anything for me. same reasoning as before
- 01:03:769 (4) - Not expressing anything. re-arranged, though I kept a similar shape.
- 01:06:117 (1,2,1,2) - Very tame movement for the aggressive cheering in the background. Same for 01:10:291 (1,1,1,2) - . changed somewhat?
- 01:08:725 (3,4,1) - Might wanna rethink this spacing. 4 is getting more emphasis than 1.redid this section a bit
- 01:27:769 (5) - Again, I don't think this should be circular. same reasoning as before
- 01:28:551 (1) - You could make this a slow slider to play the end off. did in last mod
[Infighter Extra]
More like PPfighter Extra amirite.So yeah. Good luck. thanks for putting so much time into this \o/ Helped me fix a ton of issues in top two diffs, and I'll re-map the counter with a different mindset, though maybe not entirely in line with what you might be thinking of ><; thanks again o7
- 00:05:595 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - Lots of vertical movement. Try to mix it up a little more. You did change for the last 3. changed third repetition
- 00:08:725 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - Consider one or two of these into reverse sliders. We just had a section with sparse rhythms and no way of coming into this phrase cleanly. re-arranged to make it play a little nicer, though i want to keep the stream intensity.
- 00:14:986 (1) - Random rogue curve slider coming in here. Honestly the curved slider every 1st beat of the measure just doesn't feel like a good slider structure. If you're gonna keep them then at least use this one to blanket 00:15:247 (2) -. You did it 00:18:117 (1) - here. used different solution for this.
- 00:21:117 (1) - gets a special slider shape but 00:23:204 (1,1) - these don't. You do get this right in the chorus 01:07:551 (3,3) - though. diversified
- 00:36:899 - to 00:45:247 - you know what I'm going to say about differing slider-shapes. So yeah. and i'm gonna keep them, because it's a part of the song that stands out and deserves this sort of emphasis.
- 00:44:986 (4,5) - These are different pitches so stacking them wouldn't the best idea, even if they do pick up into the next section.
- 00:46:943 (4) - I know this is setting up the stacking for the next couple of circles but at 00:47:334 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - the map would benefit a lot more from circular flow, especially since you mapped the last 00:48:117 (1,2,3) - three without that stacking motif. Either way the stacking 00:47:464 (2,3,2,3) - here and 00:46:682 (2,4) - here has to be changed, you've never used it before so it's a bit late to start using it now. based on guitar emphasis
- 01:14:464 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Same stacking comment. same reasoning
- 01:19:160 (4,5,1,2,3,4) - Where are these curved sliders coming from. You've been using loads of straight lines until now. If anything use anchored sliders to keep the straight edges theme. no clue where you're getting that theme from, but i use a lot of curved sliders which i want to continue to do.
- 01:28:030 (1,1) - It would be better if these were different shapes. fixed in last mod