abraker wrote:
Diseases that are hard to detect can be an issue, but a more common issue is that it may be that they don't get treatment for it, and as a result, spread detectable diseases further to others. If the severity of the detectable diseases is high, then you get an epidemic and a sick population consisting of not just the poor. Also depending on the severity of the diseases, deaths can occur in not just the poor population because of this.
It's in my best interest to supply the poor with welfare because of this and my well-being. If someone poor at public transport caught some disease they never got treatment for, then I am likely to get it too because I ride public transport every weekday. I don't need a sick week because someone is developing a 40c fever on the train.
The act of people suffering from diseases is a topic going from moral standpoint and not from an objective standpoint. Why I should care about their suffering should be a topic to discuss separate from why welfare should not exist because it's then a question about why I think it should exist and not why it should exist.
I don't really get what you're saying about morality vs objectivism. Isn't one of the primary roles of systems of governance, which is what we're talking about, to reduce human suffering? If not, I don't understand by what standards the best type of government is judged. It seems you're talking about your own personal interests being the most important factor. If that's the case, then the best type of government would be a dictatorship with you at the top, if we're not considering other people.
Now about welfare. Note, that I never actually said that welfare should be abolished, although I am warm to that idea. Now, the primary error in your logic is assuming that without welfare, the people who are dependent on welfare with income would suddenly have no income without it. As I have already shown, the majority of welfare recipients are capable of working, and if they didn't get welfare, they could do so. Of course, as I've mentioned, reducing barriers to employment should go along with this to ensure that people can be employed. So then, these people would be able to afford health insurance.
What about the people who can't work because of a disability, temporary life circumstances, et cetera? Private charities can fill this role, and are much better and more efficient that government programs in general, for the same free-market principles in which private organisations usually can do things better than the government. For example,
70% of government welfare spending goes towards administration spending, compared with 10% for private charity. And of course, private charities are much better at helping people with the specific help they need, and much better at administering help to people who genuinely need it, compared with government bureaucracy.
And another point: in a welfare state, what is stopping every person from a poorer country immigrating to your country for free welfare? We've seen many examples of these economic migrants in Europe and America. Simply, the welfare state necessitates strong border control. And since liberals do not want the latter, well, that is a recipe for disaster. As we have seen in Sweden.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2014/05/sweden ... migration/And the final point that I'd like to make, is that welfare creates a welfare dependent population within a nation. It allows people who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford kids, to have kids, which then grow up in low-income areas, destined to the same fate as their parent(s). Well, you might tell me, people would just have kids regardless and then their kids would starve. Well, I'll play the same logic card as you did; to say that people's actions are not affected by their economic circumstances and opportunities is ridiculous. No doubt it would happen, but I doubt as many teens would have a baby without a guaranteed welfare check from the government. The reduction of welfare would encourage only economically stable married couples to have kids, which is a better thing for society.
