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Omoi - Snow Drive(01.23)
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Honestly if this get's ranked then holy shit.
the amount of pp.
godlike...
the amount of pp.
godlike...
I'm not sure if this is just a bug for me, but the 'DL Without Video' button decided to include the video anyways xd
I got the same. Is this a bug with not ranked maps or something else?-Vanilla wrote:
I'm not sure if this is just a bug for me, but the 'DL Without Video' button decided to include the video anyways xd
Map is really fun!
EDIT: https://osu.ppy.sh/d/478405 and https://osu.ppy.sh/d/478405n (supposed to be novid) have the same size and both appear to include video.
Happy 01.23 everyone!
The moment of truth everyone
dont get dq aaaa
you were waiting for this you cheeky bugger (new page hype)Bara- wrote:
Happy 01.23 everyone!
If the community member(s) requesting disqualification cannot reach an agreement with the mapper and you placed the last bubble or heart on a map, you cannot rebubble or requalify it. For osu!taiko, osu!catch, osu!mania, and hybrid sets, you may break these conditions once per map due to the low number of nominators.i don't think we reached an agreement here... the most important reason for dq (in my opinion) wasn't properly addressed. i'm talking about the rhythm around 03:52:143 - this section. response given was:
problem about this reasoning is that you're basically overmapping (aka using a more dense rhythm where the music doesn't support it). i'd say there are two ways to realize that a section in the music is more intense than the rest (pitch and rhythm density) this phrase is, in fact, more intense than previous ones, because the tuning of the song goes up on 03:43:572 - so i would agree to have a higher spacing for this whole section. yet the rhythm is not denser.Kroytz wrote:
What I'm saying is that by adding in sliders to the ARIGATŌ part is lowering its intensity unless you space it out or do some finicky stuff with it, which would in turn make it inconsistent with how the previous kiais dealt with the vocals in that area. And how does it being more lyrically more intense and trying to be consistent become contradictory? By being consistent it follows the 1/2 jumps, by increasing intensity the angles and spacing is higher. That's all it is.
not to say that stuff like 03:35:000 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - feels exactly the same in terms of spacing and rhythm even when the later section on 03:52:143 - is way different. even the NC pattern is exactly the same.
also about saying that it is consistent doesn't make much sense because previous sections followed voice and this doesn't follow anything.
i truly understand your reasoning, you wanted to make this part more difficult than the previous ones (that makes sense) but... if you find you're running out of screen, reducing spacing on previous sections, using a rhythm that properly follows the music and making it harder to hit in terms of spacing would be a better option imo
HYPE HYPE HYPE
YOU BETTER NOT GET DQ'D AGAIN
YOU BETTER NOT GET DQ'D AGAIN
As far as I can see this set got re-qualified without Natsu asking if your explanations were fine or not...or did I miss something? If that's the case then both BNs broke the rule Kagetsu mentioned
Topic Starter
@Kagetsu
the music does support 1/2s but it's probably less obvious than former choruses, at least, that's what I think you're arguing. If you don't understand my reasoning or feel it's insufficient then its most likely due to your own personal bias. The idea of 'big finales' and consistency within choruses (all while building intensities) is nothing new. It's done in almost every anime song and is perfectly fine as even some of your maps share a similar theme to the idea. It sounds like you do understand the reasoning and logic behind what we did but refuse to agree with it which is a fair opinion but your style and our style happen to be different when tackling this idea on~
the music does support 1/2s but it's probably less obvious than former choruses, at least, that's what I think you're arguing. If you don't understand my reasoning or feel it's insufficient then its most likely due to your own personal bias. The idea of 'big finales' and consistency within choruses (all while building intensities) is nothing new. It's done in almost every anime song and is perfectly fine as even some of your maps share a similar theme to the idea. It sounds like you do understand the reasoning and logic behind what we did but refuse to agree with it which is a fair opinion but your style and our style happen to be different when tackling this idea on~
not in this song, though. you're basically saying that you're mapping a different song because is the common way to go even when the your song is clearly different.Kroytz wrote:
@Kagetsu
The idea of 'big finales' and consistency within choruses (all while building intensities) is nothing new. It's done in almost every anime song and is perfectly fine as even some of your maps share a similar theme to the idea.
i don't think those sections represents the song you chose to map. it's fine to spam 1/2 as long as the music supports it.
Topic Starter
I appreciate your opinion but I'd say our logic is still reasonably sound.
>song has 1/2s (it could even be draining 1/4s but that's a bit of a stretch honestly)
>song has chorus similar to two others before
>last chorus, higher pitch, finale ending.
I'm not sure what exactly is wrong with this but it seems like just because she elongates a single Ō sound, everything has to change to revolve around it and that's not true. Players have had two choruses of a 1/2 section that when they're coming to play the third and last chorus, since they've been already familiarized with what's to come, It'll be the last 1/2 section they're expecting. Not undermapping it to fit in the Ō sound because then it becomes a big letdown for the ending and things fall flat. Don't say it's overmapping when there are similarities and thematic commonalities with basic 1/2 songs such as this that are shown across many anime songs.
>song has 1/2s (it could even be draining 1/4s but that's a bit of a stretch honestly)
>song has chorus similar to two others before
>last chorus, higher pitch, finale ending.
I'm not sure what exactly is wrong with this but it seems like just because she elongates a single Ō sound, everything has to change to revolve around it and that's not true. Players have had two choruses of a 1/2 section that when they're coming to play the third and last chorus, since they've been already familiarized with what's to come, It'll be the last 1/2 section they're expecting. Not undermapping it to fit in the Ō sound because then it becomes a big letdown for the ending and things fall flat. Don't say it's overmapping when there are similarities and thematic commonalities with basic 1/2 songs such as this that are shown across many anime songs.
why isn't it true? composer decided to elongate the Ō sound, which creates another different rhythm. map should reflex such change. because current rhythm isn't following anythingKroytz wrote:
I'm not sure what exactly is wrong with this but it seems like just because she elongates a single Ō sound, everything has to change to revolve around it and that's not true.
third and last chorus that has a different rhythm. it's not a problem of being familiarized to, but rather of what's musically correctKroytz wrote:
Players have had two choruses of a 1/2 section that when they're coming to play the third and last chorus, since they've been already familiarized with what's to come, It'll be the last 1/2 section they're expecting
this wouldn't be a problem if the previous sections were not so spaced, though. balancing the spacing is also a thing when it comes to mapping, it's possible to make the last section to stand out by reducing the previous onesKroytz wrote:
Not undermapping it to fit in the Ō sound because then it becomes a big letdown for the ending and things fall flat
uhh... using different songs to justify your choices is not a valid reasoning, though. people usually use the word "overmapping" for 1/4 rhythms but i think it can also be applied here, basically, overmapping is using denser rhythms than the song actually provides, i think that definition fits for this type of caseKroytz wrote:
Don't say it's overmapping when there are similarities and thematic commonalities with basic 1/2 songs such as this that are shown across many anime songs.
Topic Starter
and here again I'll say our impasse is formed around our different interpretations/ideologies when it comes to defining thematic structures. Opinion appreciated, although, I respectfully disagree.
Could I have used the sliders? Possibly? Would it match the theme and present a climactic finish? Most likely not. Is the extra 1/2 circle accurate to the vocals? You seem to think not, and I think it's justifiable. Does the arigatou fit the theme presented in the song? Yes by following 1/2s. Does it present the climactic ending? I think so. Spacing is one factor to consider but the difficulty in which these jumps have to be hit is another thing to consider. and the rising (1,2,3)s are certainly challenging.
In my opinion, I think we both can be correct, but what's presented is my style and ideas to how I structured the map. If you disagree it's fine, I'm not looking for agreement, I'm only justifying my interpretation and why it was done this way.
Could I have used the sliders? Possibly? Would it match the theme and present a climactic finish? Most likely not. Is the extra 1/2 circle accurate to the vocals? You seem to think not, and I think it's justifiable. Does the arigatou fit the theme presented in the song? Yes by following 1/2s. Does it present the climactic ending? I think so. Spacing is one factor to consider but the difficulty in which these jumps have to be hit is another thing to consider. and the rising (1,2,3)s are certainly challenging.
In my opinion, I think we both can be correct, but what's presented is my style and ideas to how I structured the map. If you disagree it's fine, I'm not looking for agreement, I'm only justifying my interpretation and why it was done this way.
i personally think that you should look for it. this was one of the reasons why your map got dq'd last time so i'd say it is highly questionable.Kroytz wrote:
I'm not looking for agreement, I'm only justifying my interpretation and why it was done this way.
interpretations of songs can always be justified. yet we should think if these reasoning are correct or not.
So, what will happen next?
Sorry, but I don't think the spread is between Normal and Hard is acceptable
The justification you provided to C00L earlier on for rhythm progression sounds fine and logical: progression from a 1/1 heavy difficulty to a 1/2 heavy difficulty. The problem is at this BPM players won't be ready to handle the increased object density when going from Normal to Hard.
Bear in mind, both of these difficulties are fine, this post will be for an explanation of why I think that another difficulty is necessary.
00:10:358 - On the normal, you go from 4 3/2 sliders with 3/2 gaps between each one, to on the hard having a chain of 8 1/1 sliders with 1/2 gaps between each one. The slider rhythm isn't a problem, it's more of the fact that you chain so many in a row. Doesn't seem too big, but I know most people wouldn't be able to get away with these differences with an Easy -> Normal progression like this on a more regular BPM.
00:17:858 - Normal has a 1/1 repeat and 2 circles, with 1/1 gaps, Hard introduces a 1/2 and a click after a 1/4 gap. Even with a repeat slider, I don't think you can expect players to transition from 1/1 gaps to dealing with a 1/4 gap at this speed like this.
00:27:500 - Song picks up here, the Normal is doing 2/1 repeats, 1/1 repeats, some 1/1 sliders, and the occasional circle. Hard is doing lots of 1/1 sliders with 1/2 circles in between, even some 1/2 sliders, with sparse 1/1 gaps.
00:40:358 - From here on out, intensity has gone down, but mainly in terms of clicks. We're still seeing this saturated with 1/2 gaps in the Hard diffficulty, but more 1/1 repeats, 2/1 or longer sliders, with 1/1 or larger gaps in the Normal.
00:59:643 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Even single repeat sliders are introduced here in the Hard, with this section only being a 3/1 slider + circle in the Normal, but at least they aren't 1/4 gaps.
01:36:072 - Like the rest of the map, has many 1/2 gaps with almost no 1/1, and is mapped with 1/1 sliders, 1/2 sliders, and circles in the Hard difficulty, but the Normal barely even uses two 1/1 circles consecutively. Instead, the rhythm is composted mainly of 2/1, 1/1, and circles, enforcing 1/1 gaps.
02:07:143 - 1/2 slider spam with 1/2 gaps in the Hard, compared to 3/1, 2/1, 1/1 repeats, and circles enforcing 1/1 gaps in the Normal.
I would go through the rest, but your difficulties are consistent and at worst, decent, so most of what I have said here applies to the rest. Things like this are why you should get an Advanced difficulty that compromises between these two levels of rhythm density, especially for such a popular song
Also, something I noticed:
[BHR's Normal]
00:09:301 (2) - Given that there's a metronome reset earlier than 1/1, it's better to be safe than sorry and just end this at 00:09:837. There are even stronger beats present on that slider end.
Good luck.
The justification you provided to C00L earlier on for rhythm progression sounds fine and logical: progression from a 1/1 heavy difficulty to a 1/2 heavy difficulty. The problem is at this BPM players won't be ready to handle the increased object density when going from Normal to Hard.
Bear in mind, both of these difficulties are fine, this post will be for an explanation of why I think that another difficulty is necessary.
00:10:358 - On the normal, you go from 4 3/2 sliders with 3/2 gaps between each one, to on the hard having a chain of 8 1/1 sliders with 1/2 gaps between each one. The slider rhythm isn't a problem, it's more of the fact that you chain so many in a row. Doesn't seem too big, but I know most people wouldn't be able to get away with these differences with an Easy -> Normal progression like this on a more regular BPM.
00:17:858 - Normal has a 1/1 repeat and 2 circles, with 1/1 gaps, Hard introduces a 1/2 and a click after a 1/4 gap. Even with a repeat slider, I don't think you can expect players to transition from 1/1 gaps to dealing with a 1/4 gap at this speed like this.
00:27:500 - Song picks up here, the Normal is doing 2/1 repeats, 1/1 repeats, some 1/1 sliders, and the occasional circle. Hard is doing lots of 1/1 sliders with 1/2 circles in between, even some 1/2 sliders, with sparse 1/1 gaps.
00:40:358 - From here on out, intensity has gone down, but mainly in terms of clicks. We're still seeing this saturated with 1/2 gaps in the Hard diffficulty, but more 1/1 repeats, 2/1 or longer sliders, with 1/1 or larger gaps in the Normal.
00:59:643 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Even single repeat sliders are introduced here in the Hard, with this section only being a 3/1 slider + circle in the Normal, but at least they aren't 1/4 gaps.
01:36:072 - Like the rest of the map, has many 1/2 gaps with almost no 1/1, and is mapped with 1/1 sliders, 1/2 sliders, and circles in the Hard difficulty, but the Normal barely even uses two 1/1 circles consecutively. Instead, the rhythm is composted mainly of 2/1, 1/1, and circles, enforcing 1/1 gaps.
02:07:143 - 1/2 slider spam with 1/2 gaps in the Hard, compared to 3/1, 2/1, 1/1 repeats, and circles enforcing 1/1 gaps in the Normal.
I would go through the rest, but your difficulties are consistent and at worst, decent, so most of what I have said here applies to the rest. Things like this are why you should get an Advanced difficulty that compromises between these two levels of rhythm density, especially for such a popular song
Also, something I noticed:
[BHR's Normal]
00:09:301 (2) - Given that there's a metronome reset earlier than 1/1, it's better to be safe than sorry and just end this at 00:09:837. There are even stronger beats present on that slider end.
Good luck.
Topic Starter
@Halfslashed
Thank you for your input~ but I must say that high bpm music will always have more density than songs with a more "regular BPM".
First, I'll say that this isn't necessary since the metronome reset is only 14ms and the player has a 1/1 gap to react to the incoming slider. Other songs with metronome resets this small don't really change anything to accommodate for it. If it was as large as a 1/4 reset, then possibly but currently it's as big as a 1/16 lol.
Even in 200bpm, a song that is comprised of mostly 1/4s will be much denser and the jump from one undermapped diff to another undermapped diff will be quite big when it comes to density. When you're referring to songs of a "regular BPM" and here I'll assume your typical 180bpm TV size song, then density doesn't become an issue because the song is naturally slower and will provide more gaps in time between each circle. You can't compare high bpm songs to low bpm. A 300bpm comprised of all 1/1s would just be as inflated when it comes to difficulty as you can imagine. If someone were to make it based off of mostly 1/2s, it'd probably already be a 4.5* insane even if it wouldn't feel like one (and this is keeping it simple).
The rest of what you've said in your post is simply comparing the density between difficulties, so rather, try to compare the mechanics of play between each diff. Hard doesn't introduce streams, but insane introduces a single 5 beat stream and a couple repeat sliders. And after Insane, the extras introduce a bit more and more. Normal introduces basic rhythm and so does Hard! The hard difficulty follows mostly standard DS and 1/1 1/2 rhythm, similar to the Normal of having 3/2s and 1/1s, we've now become more dense in introducing 1/2s and replacing 3/2s. No 3/4 shenanigans or triples that some other Hard diffs in "regular BPM" use. It only tones down the overly long sliders of Normal to be kept more to the music while the 1/2s follow the fast vocals. And for the Insane, it varies a bit with circles on the vocals but still lots of 1/2s and 1/1s, just not DS'd.
For the record, I have gathered many testplays on every diff throughout the course of Q4 2016, and made sure that the diffs were playable to their intended audience. NHI for the five and six digit players, and the rest on varying skills from five digits to the single digits. Especially for the NHI diffs where I would go into low rank multiplayer lobbies and see where people may mess up on and for the most part, everything seemed okay. With what happens in high bpm songs on lower diffs is that density becomes evident and the player has to react to the speed of the song rather than the complexities within the map.
Here's a credit to Bluepencil- who is a rank 167,000 player who managed to FC the Hard difficulty on his 3rd submitted score:
YT Video.
Thank you for your input~ but I must say that high bpm music will always have more density than songs with a more "regular BPM".
Halfslashed wrote:
00:09:301 (2) - Given that there's a metronome reset earlier than 1/1, it's better to be safe than sorry and just end this at 00:09:837. There are even stronger beats present on that slider end.
First, I'll say that this isn't necessary since the metronome reset is only 14ms and the player has a 1/1 gap to react to the incoming slider. Other songs with metronome resets this small don't really change anything to accommodate for it. If it was as large as a 1/4 reset, then possibly but currently it's as big as a 1/16 lol.
Let's just say that it's been done before and it'd be more controversial to talk in the Paraclete set I did than in this set since Snow Drive is fairly basic in its rhythm.Halfslashed wrote:
The slider rhythm isn't a problem, it's more of the fact that you chain so many in a row. Doesn't seem too big, but I know most people wouldn't be able to get away with these differences with an Easy -> Normal progression like this on a more regular BPM.
Even in 200bpm, a song that is comprised of mostly 1/4s will be much denser and the jump from one undermapped diff to another undermapped diff will be quite big when it comes to density. When you're referring to songs of a "regular BPM" and here I'll assume your typical 180bpm TV size song, then density doesn't become an issue because the song is naturally slower and will provide more gaps in time between each circle. You can't compare high bpm songs to low bpm. A 300bpm comprised of all 1/1s would just be as inflated when it comes to difficulty as you can imagine. If someone were to make it based off of mostly 1/2s, it'd probably already be a 4.5* insane even if it wouldn't feel like one (and this is keeping it simple).
The rest of what you've said in your post is simply comparing the density between difficulties, so rather, try to compare the mechanics of play between each diff. Hard doesn't introduce streams, but insane introduces a single 5 beat stream and a couple repeat sliders. And after Insane, the extras introduce a bit more and more. Normal introduces basic rhythm and so does Hard! The hard difficulty follows mostly standard DS and 1/1 1/2 rhythm, similar to the Normal of having 3/2s and 1/1s, we've now become more dense in introducing 1/2s and replacing 3/2s. No 3/4 shenanigans or triples that some other Hard diffs in "regular BPM" use. It only tones down the overly long sliders of Normal to be kept more to the music while the 1/2s follow the fast vocals. And for the Insane, it varies a bit with circles on the vocals but still lots of 1/2s and 1/1s, just not DS'd.
For the record, I have gathered many testplays on every diff throughout the course of Q4 2016, and made sure that the diffs were playable to their intended audience. NHI for the five and six digit players, and the rest on varying skills from five digits to the single digits. Especially for the NHI diffs where I would go into low rank multiplayer lobbies and see where people may mess up on and for the most part, everything seemed okay. With what happens in high bpm songs on lower diffs is that density becomes evident and the player has to react to the speed of the song rather than the complexities within the map.
Here's a credit to Bluepencil- who is a rank 167,000 player who managed to FC the Hard difficulty on his 3rd submitted score:
YT Video.
in raizoken's diff
00:48:929 - isnt the spacing in this part kinda too high? it's almost comparable to the kiai time
i think if u compare this part to the kiai, it should definitely be easier, however 00:49:465 (3,4,5,6) - 00:51:072 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) - , and etc spacing seems to high
something like 02:03:929 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - would be more suitable?
i also agree with the spread issue form normal to hard.
normal is basically an easy diff but on high bpm, and hard plays like a pretty standard hard diff, you will need something like an advanced diff to bridge the gap, mapped like an actual normal diff with a combination of 1/1 and 1/2
why are you being so difficult here :/ its very simple to solve by adding another diff in, and a mapper at your caliber can make it fairly easily, just dont be lazy
00:48:929 - isnt the spacing in this part kinda too high? it's almost comparable to the kiai time
i think if u compare this part to the kiai, it should definitely be easier, however 00:49:465 (3,4,5,6) - 00:51:072 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) - , and etc spacing seems to high
something like 02:03:929 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - would be more suitable?
i also agree with the spread issue form normal to hard.
normal is basically an easy diff but on high bpm, and hard plays like a pretty standard hard diff, you will need something like an advanced diff to bridge the gap, mapped like an actual normal diff with a combination of 1/1 and 1/2
why are you being so difficult here :/ its very simple to solve by adding another diff in, and a mapper at your caliber can make it fairly easily, just dont be lazy
High BPM music will always have more density than songs with a more regular BPM, and thus requires more difficulties to ensure a good spread for players of all levels. Additionally, just because something has been ranked before, doesn't mean that it's okay now.Kroytz wrote:
@Halfslashed
Thank you for your input~ but I must say that high bpm music will always have more density than songs with a more "regular BPM".HalfslashedFirst, I'll say that this isn't necessary since the metronome reset is only 14ms and the player has a 1/1 gap to react to the incoming slider. Other songs with metronome resets this small don't really change anything to accommodate for it. If it was as large as a 1/4 reset, then possibly but currently it's as big as a 1/16 lol.00:09:301 (2) - Given that there's a metronome reset earlier than 1/1, it's better to be safe than sorry and just end this at 00:09:837. There are even stronger beats present on that slider end.HalfslashedThe slider rhythm isn't a problem, it's more of the fact that you chain so many in a row. Doesn't seem too big, but I know most people wouldn't be able to get away with these differences with an Easy -> Normal progression like this on a more regular BPM.
Let's just say that it's been done before and it'd be more controversial to talk in the Paraclete set I did than in this set since Snow Drive is fairly basic in its rhythm.
Even in 200bpm, a song that is comprised of mostly 1/4s will be much denser and the jump from one undermapped diff to another undermapped diff will be quite big when it comes to density. When you're referring to songs of a "regular BPM" and here I'll assume your typical 180bpm TV size song, then density doesn't become an issue because the song is naturally slower and will provide more gaps in time between each circle. You can't compare high bpm songs to low bpm. A 300bpm comprised of all 1/1s would just be as inflated when it comes to difficulty as you can imagine. If someone were to make it based off of mostly 1/2s, it'd probably already be a 4.5* insane even if it wouldn't feel like one (and this is keeping it simple).
The rest of what you've said in your post is simply comparing the density between difficulties, so rather, try to compare the mechanics of play between each diff. Hard doesn't introduce streams, but insane introduces a single 5 beat stream and a couple repeat sliders. And after Insane, the extras introduce a bit more and more. Normal introduces basic rhythm and so does Hard! The hard difficulty follows mostly standard DS and 1/1 1/2 rhythm, similar to the Normal of having 3/2s and 1/1s, we've now become more dense in introducing 1/2s and replacing 3/2s. No 3/4 shenanigans or triples that some other Hard diffs in "regular BPM" use. It only tones down the overly long sliders of Normal to be kept more to the music while the 1/2s follow the fast vocals. And for the Insane, it varies a bit with circles on the vocals but still lots of 1/2s and 1/1s, just not DS'd.
For the record, I have gathered many testplays on every diff throughout the course of Q4 2016, and made sure that the diffs were playable to their intended audience. NHI for the five and six digit players, and the rest on varying skills from five digits to the single digits. Especially for the NHI diffs where I would go into low rank multiplayer lobbies and see where people may mess up on and for the most part, everything seemed okay. With what happens in high bpm songs on lower diffs is that density becomes evident and the player has to react to the speed of the song rather than the complexities within the map.
Here's a credit to Bluepencil- who is a rank 167,000 player who managed to FC the Hard difficulty on his 3rd submitted score:
YT Video.
High BPM and low BPM have different musical structures, but most of the guidelines with relation to timeline snappings (1/1, 1/2) apply to regular BPM, which can then be scaled from for things like 300 bpm songs (1/1 in these songs is like 1/2 in a 150 bpm song).
I also did compare density between difficulties because that is the issue I am addressing. Whether or not it makes sense for spreads to be judged solely on gameplay from a logical sense (I assume you're referring to the tapping aspect), it's been established that rhythm density is central in determining difficulty spread. I mean, you even said it yourself at p/5691903.
Topic Starter
@Halfslashed
Yes, I said the difference between NHI is density due to rhythm. Revieweing from a gameplay point of view, which is what I've been talking about with you, is that the Normal difficulty is based around oversimplified rhythm that plays with basic DS and no complicated patterns. Then, Hard is simplified rhythm that also uses ideas of Normal while introducing patterns at a more sound rhythm (here being 1/1s and 1/2s). Now, due to the rhythm composition of Hard, it only feels like it's a bigger jump than Normal because we've gone from using a bunch of 3/2s, 2/1s, and 1/1s to a lot of 1/1s and 1/2s.
This in my opinion is reasonable when it comes to songs at this high BPM because the gameplay mechanics coming from Normal to Hard now adjusts to fit the music more properly; no longer is it oversimplified, now it's only been simplified.
Lastly moving from Hard to insane is introducing the last bits of rhythm complexity such as 1/4s, repeat sliders, and not following the DS that eases the transition of the NHI series into the XXXX diffs. As I've said before, it moreso becomes the player keeping up with the speed of the song at 224bpm rather than trying to play the map for what it offers. Even for some lower 6digit players (let's just say borderline 7 digits), Normal might be hard to keep up with at this high BPM. It's simply the nature of how music works, less time between notes adds density, adds difficulty.
Yes, I said the difference between NHI is density due to rhythm. Revieweing from a gameplay point of view, which is what I've been talking about with you, is that the Normal difficulty is based around oversimplified rhythm that plays with basic DS and no complicated patterns. Then, Hard is simplified rhythm that also uses ideas of Normal while introducing patterns at a more sound rhythm (here being 1/1s and 1/2s). Now, due to the rhythm composition of Hard, it only feels like it's a bigger jump than Normal because we've gone from using a bunch of 3/2s, 2/1s, and 1/1s to a lot of 1/1s and 1/2s.
This in my opinion is reasonable when it comes to songs at this high BPM because the gameplay mechanics coming from Normal to Hard now adjusts to fit the music more properly; no longer is it oversimplified, now it's only been simplified.
Lastly moving from Hard to insane is introducing the last bits of rhythm complexity such as 1/4s, repeat sliders, and not following the DS that eases the transition of the NHI series into the XXXX diffs. As I've said before, it moreso becomes the player keeping up with the speed of the song at 224bpm rather than trying to play the map for what it offers. Even for some lower 6digit players (let's just say borderline 7 digits), Normal might be hard to keep up with at this high BPM. It's simply the nature of how music works, less time between notes adds density, adds difficulty.
The problem is that 'Normal' uses rhythms you'd normally find in an Easy difficulty (on regular BPM), when 'Hard' starts to use continuous strings of 1/2-objects. Even though there are many sliders, these rhythms are what you'd find in an easier Hard difficulty on regular BPM. The actual difficulty gap is even bigger due to the high BPM than it would be on lower BPM, though.
About the gap between Hard and Insane, it's significantly less huge than the Normal to Hard gap. Again, comparing these rhythms on regular BPM, 'Hard' looks like a relatively easy Hard, 'Insane' looks like a relatively easy Insane. The gap is still quite big, but not as extreme as the lower one.
After long discussions with people, I decided to take this mapset down again. I highly recommend you to fix this issue before pushing it for ranked and balance the spread out more. Best solution would be to add a difficulty between Normal and Hard, and maybe increase the difficulty of Hard a bit afterwards to make the spread more even (because otherwise the Hard - Insane gap will be significantly larger than anything else when adding another difficulty).
I understand the frustration this might bring, but it's really necessary to make this mapset accessible for a wider playerbase.
About the gap between Hard and Insane, it's significantly less huge than the Normal to Hard gap. Again, comparing these rhythms on regular BPM, 'Hard' looks like a relatively easy Hard, 'Insane' looks like a relatively easy Insane. The gap is still quite big, but not as extreme as the lower one.
After long discussions with people, I decided to take this mapset down again. I highly recommend you to fix this issue before pushing it for ranked and balance the spread out more. Best solution would be to add a difficulty between Normal and Hard, and maybe increase the difficulty of Hard a bit afterwards to make the spread more even (because otherwise the Hard - Insane gap will be significantly larger than anything else when adding another difficulty).
I understand the frustration this might bring, but it's really necessary to make this mapset accessible for a wider playerbase.
Topic Starter
See you all at the end of the year!
Shiirn wrote:
how to completely fucking ignore the music and vocals and map practically and functionally random cross-screen 1/2s that change momentum and rotation at unpredictable points and in general is a bloody mess to look at. and that's just the kiai.
i hope you're banking on more than bullshit meme power to get this ranked, otherwise you might as well give up while you're ahead. The jump sections (all 20+ of them) need a complete do-over. I'm rather bored of seeing people map literally randomly placed jumps. At least have some basic concept of momentum or cursor positioning. And get a sense of rhythm, while you're at it.
call me if you want an advanced diff, as im willing
i also have tiny concerns on normal w/ od4 and hp4, although don't take that seriously because i must suck at mapping
i also have tiny concerns on normal w/ od4 and hp4, although don't take that seriously because i must suck at mapping
Maybe don't aim to rank/qualify a map on specific dates so there's not so much stress in fending off otherwise helpful remarks. Bitter/self-righteous people will try extra hard to argue their points if you seem to be rejecting them in order to fit a schedule..
Monstrata wrote:
Maybe don't aim to rank/qualify a map on specific dates so there's not so much stress in fending off otherwise helpful remarks.
why at christmas 2017 tho? doesnt really make any sense tbh. i know that its a reference because of "snow" drive but still.
its still winter you dont need to wait another 11 months and forget about the map rank it already lul
- 00:08:230 (1) - Out of screen, i don't really know if i'm the only one...
- 00:17:858 (1) - Keep it on the screen.
- 00:29:643 (1,2) - Is weird that you followed the song almost perfect right here, but ¿Why you ignore the emphasis with the same sound right here 00:31:786 (1) - & here 00:33:929 (1) - ?
- 00:37:143 (2) - Keep it on the screen.
- 00:39:286 (2) - I don't feel that need a repeat here 00:39:554 (2) - .
- 00:50:000 (3) - And another one off the screen.
- 00:53:215 (1) - Looks really bad.
- 01:00:715 (2) - ¿Why did you ignored those beats?.
- 01:03:929 (1) - Looks awful.
- 01:11:429 (2) - Keep it on the screen, men did you know that, those sliders off the screen are unrakable, right?
- 01:18:929 (1) - You should map that part.
- 02:07:143 (1) - Keep it on the screen...
- 02:25:224 (2) - ^.
- 02:25:893 (3) - ^.
- 03:18:929 (2) - It feels weird.
- 03:33:929 (2) - Keep it on the screen...
- 03:36:608 (3) - ^.
- 03:38:215 (1) - ^.
- 03:58:304 (2,3,4,5,6) - This is just too much.
Btw the "Snow Drive Extreme" 1. Haves 2 custom names on the mapset(which is unrankable), 2. the mapping is horrible ¬¬. the whole map haves a Double-A mapping skills, except for that diff.
Also, maybe the modders are link "angry", because why you think that you could rank this on 1/23, men a rank takes like 1 week, ¡2 sometimes! or the simple thing of your "toxic" way to reply to the modders, making them to look stupid, when they are just trying to help you, and you maybe think that you have a perfect mapset, yeah the mapset is good but can improve, try to be a better person and do not think that anything is perfect if you made it, if the people helps you, you should say thanks, if that wasn't helpful you should say: No, thanks, and don't give them a reply them with the purpose of making feel them dumb, that's all.
Good luck on ranking... if this anytime will rank...
Also... the mp4 files... yeah osu! don't recognize them...
Well, since I haven't replied to like the mods for a while and this is all on my part I might as well reply lol
None of the timestamps you placed regarding offscreen sliders are actually offscreen. What constitutes for an offscreen slider are the ones that are offscreen in gameplay, not editor.
Besides that point, stuff like 01:00:715 (2) - is left purposely unmapped to add emphasis to a certain section, for this the pause creates emphasis on the measure by leaving it unmapped.
00:29:643 (1,2) - is clearly different from all the other rhythms of this section, you can hear that the overall mood of the song has slowed down for this section, which is shown with the different rhythm.
Aaaaaaaand the whole slider looking bad thing is subjective so lol
I dunno about the last thing since it's on rocket's part but that's all from me
None of the timestamps you placed regarding offscreen sliders are actually offscreen. What constitutes for an offscreen slider are the ones that are offscreen in gameplay, not editor.
Besides that point, stuff like 01:00:715 (2) - is left purposely unmapped to add emphasis to a certain section, for this the pause creates emphasis on the measure by leaving it unmapped.
00:29:643 (1,2) - is clearly different from all the other rhythms of this section, you can hear that the overall mood of the song has slowed down for this section, which is shown with the different rhythm.
Aaaaaaaand the whole slider looking bad thing is subjective so lol
I dunno about the last thing since it's on rocket's part but that's all from me
mapping is hard
vakekok
[Anx's N]
tbh theres kinda too much overlaps even tho i kno its like 4/1 buts its still kinda taxing for new players to read idk
also im kinda confused on where you're focusing at,sometimes you focus on vocal and suddenly you focus on the drums/snares/idk
01:12:500 (3) - nc since the girl strts talking again in here
01:35:804 - y dont put a note here,feels kinda fitting if you put a note here tbh
01:41:965 (3,1) - feel kinda clunky for new players to play
02:07:679 (2,3,1) - why didnt you make it straight like what u did w 02:08:750 (2,3,1) - n 02:09:822 (2,3,1) -
02:12:500 (3,4) - would be better if you can try to blanket this but idk doesnt rlly look like possible
02:43:572 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - kinda feels weird that you only put a long reverse slider (1/1 1/2 idk) 02:43:572 (1) - in a part with the same sound repeated several times
03:00:715 (1,2) - parts like this are better if mapped like this imo
[Anx's N]
tbh theres kinda too much overlaps even tho i kno its like 4/1 buts its still kinda taxing for new players to read idk
also im kinda confused on where you're focusing at,sometimes you focus on vocal and suddenly you focus on the drums/snares/idk
01:12:500 (3) - nc since the girl strts talking again in here
01:35:804 - y dont put a note here,feels kinda fitting if you put a note here tbh
01:41:965 (3,1) - feel kinda clunky for new players to play
02:07:679 (2,3,1) - why didnt you make it straight like what u did w 02:08:750 (2,3,1) - n 02:09:822 (2,3,1) -
02:12:500 (3,4) - would be better if you can try to blanket this but idk doesnt rlly look like possible
02:43:572 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - kinda feels weird that you only put a long reverse slider (1/1 1/2 idk) 02:43:572 (1) - in a part with the same sound repeated several times
03:00:715 (1,2) - parts like this are better if mapped like this imo
Kroytz forced asked me to look at Anxient's Normal so here I am
-> check all blankets again
-> read this
02:06:072 (1,2) - why not use the actual 1/3 rhythm here should not cause any problems if placed correctly it's a normal step it up (and that of a 230bpm song at that)
02:26:429 (1,2,3,4) - this embodies alot less intensity than 02:24:286 (1,2,3,4) - ... make them the same, vocally speaking the same stuff is happening
02:26:429 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Why are those the same rhythms while the second combo totally changes up vocals and increases intensity
02:57:500 (3) - I think a reverse silder would be a better way of capturing the long held sound as the player is not pressing anything while still getting the drums. Also it creats rhthym parellilsm with 02:56:429 (1) - which are both held notes and in this sense equal.
03:17:858 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Too many repeat sliders for the amount of build up intensity imo
There seem to be alot of inconsistency in similar parts with different rhythm though I am not a professional when it comes to normals
Isuck
-> check all blankets again
-> read this
IRC log where I started modding
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: okay yukiyo
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: unfortunately its still a mod req but, on a single difficulty. normal level. its for snow drive ><;;
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: i got a different request
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: do you thinkyou can help?
2017-02-09 16:44 Yukiyo: normal difficulty?
2017-02-09 16:44 Yukiyo: Ugh
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: goes by quickly at least~
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: free KD tho? ;D
2017-02-09 16:45 Yukiyo: I don't think I can keep up with high level disscussions on normals
2017-02-09 16:45 Yukiyo: i dont kd
2017-02-09 16:45 Kroytz: eh
2017-02-09 16:45 Kroytz: I guess
2017-02-09 16:47 Yukiyo: do ppl even blanket these days?
2017-02-09 16:47 Kroytz: yes
2017-02-09 16:47 Yukiyo: well I guess anxient doesn't
2017-02-09 16:47 Kroytz: ahah..ha..ha.
2017-02-09 16:48 Yukiyo: [http://puu.sh/tVuNL/b130075868.jpg LOOK AT THIS ABOMINATION]
2017-02-09 16:48 Kroytz: yeah I saw that too lol
2017-02-09 16:48 Yukiyo: 01:02:858 (2,3) -
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: why does that even
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: it shifts the focus on the white beat of the slider
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: when accounting for the vocals that's bs
2017-02-09 16:49 Kroytz: ask him not meeeeeeee
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: imo
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: you asked me to look
2017-02-09 16:50 Kroytz: I mean like, in mod post thing yknow
2017-02-09 16:50 Yukiyo: I can post this log
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: 01:15:447 (3) - missing the great big white tick ;(
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: 01:22:411 (3,3) - using the same space here feels awkward
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: and gives
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: ... it's jus something you haven't done before
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: ok I'll do the rest via post
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: xd
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: sorryy
2017-02-09 16:53 Kroytz: ty~ ^^;
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: XDDD
2017-02-09 16:53 Kroytz: XD
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: unfortunately its still a mod req but, on a single difficulty. normal level. its for snow drive ><;;
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: i got a different request
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: do you thinkyou can help?
2017-02-09 16:44 Yukiyo: normal difficulty?
2017-02-09 16:44 Yukiyo: Ugh
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: goes by quickly at least~
2017-02-09 16:44 Kroytz: free KD tho? ;D
2017-02-09 16:45 Yukiyo: I don't think I can keep up with high level disscussions on normals
2017-02-09 16:45 Yukiyo: i dont kd
2017-02-09 16:45 Kroytz: eh
2017-02-09 16:45 Kroytz: I guess
2017-02-09 16:47 Yukiyo: do ppl even blanket these days?
2017-02-09 16:47 Kroytz: yes
2017-02-09 16:47 Yukiyo: well I guess anxient doesn't
2017-02-09 16:47 Kroytz: ahah..ha..ha.
2017-02-09 16:48 Yukiyo: [http://puu.sh/tVuNL/b130075868.jpg LOOK AT THIS ABOMINATION]
2017-02-09 16:48 Kroytz: yeah I saw that too lol
2017-02-09 16:48 Yukiyo: 01:02:858 (2,3) -
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: why does that even
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: it shifts the focus on the white beat of the slider
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: when accounting for the vocals that's bs
2017-02-09 16:49 Kroytz: ask him not meeeeeeee
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: imo
2017-02-09 16:49 Yukiyo: you asked me to look
2017-02-09 16:50 Kroytz: I mean like, in mod post thing yknow
2017-02-09 16:50 Yukiyo: I can post this log
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: 01:15:447 (3) - missing the great big white tick ;(
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: 01:22:411 (3,3) - using the same space here feels awkward
2017-02-09 16:52 Yukiyo: and gives
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: ... it's jus something you haven't done before
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: ok I'll do the rest via post
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: xd
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: sorryy
2017-02-09 16:53 Kroytz: ty~ ^^;
2017-02-09 16:53 Yukiyo: XDDD
2017-02-09 16:53 Kroytz: XD
02:06:072 (1,2) - why not use the actual 1/3 rhythm here should not cause any problems if placed correctly it's a normal step it up (and that of a 230bpm song at that)
02:26:429 (1,2,3,4) - this embodies alot less intensity than 02:24:286 (1,2,3,4) - ... make them the same, vocally speaking the same stuff is happening
02:26:429 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Why are those the same rhythms while the second combo totally changes up vocals and increases intensity
02:57:500 (3) - I think a reverse silder would be a better way of capturing the long held sound as the player is not pressing anything while still getting the drums. Also it creats rhthym parellilsm with 02:56:429 (1) - which are both held notes and in this sense equal.
03:17:858 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Too many repeat sliders for the amount of build up intensity imo
There seem to be alot of inconsistency in similar parts with different rhythm though I am not a professional when it comes to normals
Isuck